Scrap-Iron Chef Challenge; in the Playground I

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)

Yay and soon we come to the judging of the builds.
In the next 4 Hours and 44 Minutes, entries will no longer be taken. And I will begin posting all entries starting in a random order.

**Piggy Knowles** · 2013-07-05, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)

I'm sadly not going to have time to submit anything. I'll post my idea after the reveal.

**dysprosium** · 2013-07-05, 07:37 PM (ISO 8601)

Real life is a time consumption monster!

I will reveal what I had if it does not appear . . .

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 11:31 PM (ISO 8601)

The Challenge is over and my computer finally decided to let Giantitp Forums load.

So without further ado I shall now give everyone builds one after another.
Each with their own post, and my personal rating

And a reminder for the challenge.

Power; What can the build do, the power of the build in general, and the builds strength in combat. We can handle some cheese but not too much.
A tier one does not immediately win over a tier 4 in power. Because power is not just the classes own strengths but the strengths put into it from the build.

Elegance; could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Obscurity does not drop points. Not saying were the book is from does

Flavor; A certain amount of love is needed for any build. This is that extra spice the characters story. Those that cannot write awesome character stuff or stories, work on maximizing the build idea. This is also the place to rate just how well they pulled off the build. Elegance is does it look good, and Flavor is does it feel right. So a build that works but doesn't really fit the theme scores low here.

Site Your Sources: Every Book & Page were you got the information from which makes up your build. This one should be a 5 for everyone.

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Guvikoth Kanon'ethni
Lore

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Many moons agio, a small contingent of necropolitans attacked a village of goliaths in the mountains of Jorg'un for the mineral rights. During the battle the soldiers came upon a lone goliath at the entrance to the mines. They advanced upon the goliath thinking that a lone combatant could not withstand the might of their forces. Once engaged, the goliath tore the necropolitans apart, using his superior strength and his innate, if not crude, arcane arts, threw the soldiers into one another.

Having seen the goliath's combat prowess, the leader of the necropolitans offered a deal, become one of them, fight for them and the village would be spared, he agreed.

Unlike others who have gone through the process of becoming a necropolitan, Guvikoth showed no sign of being in pain further proved himself within the necropolitans.

Over the following years, Guvikoth was taught to refine is arcane abilities, learning the ways of the Duskblade. His natural ability to throw rocks led him to become a Bloodstorm Blade, allowing him to blend his arcane and throwing abilities.

After his training, he was placed in the necropolitan military where he proved himself time and time again. He was known to grab the enemy, charge them with arcane spells and throw them back into the ranks, causing all kinds of havoc.

Strength

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LN Necropolitan Goliath Fighter 2/Duskblade 13/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4

Stats:
Lvl 1 after racials: STR: 22 DEX: 12 CON: - INT: 14 WIS: 10 CHA: 10
Ability points and gear towards STR and INT.

Guvikoth Kanon'ethni
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Fighter 1|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

+3

|

+5

|

+0

|

+2

|Balance 3, Concentration 1, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Knowledge(Arcana) 1,Knowledge (Tactics) 2.5, Spellcraft 1 |Improved Bullrush|Arcane Attunement, Armored Mage (light)

4th|Duskblade 2|

+4

|

+6

|

+0

|

+3

+5

|

+6

|

+1

|

+3

+6

|

+7

|

+1

|

+4

+7

|

+7

|

+1

|

+4

+8

|

+8

|

+2

|

+5

+9

|

+8

|

+2

|

+5

|Balance 6, Concentration 7, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Knowledge(Arcana) 7,Knowledge (Tactics) 2.5, Spellcraft 7|Point Blank Shot|Armored Mage (Heavy Shield)

10th|Duskblade 8|

+10

|

+9

|

+2

|

+6

|Balance 6.5, Concentration 8, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Knowledge(Arcana) 8,Knowledge (Tactics) 2.5, Spellcraft 8|-|-

11th|Duskblade 9|

+11

|

+9

|

+3

|

+6

|Balance 7, Concentration 9, Jump 5, Intimidate 5, Knowledge(Arcana) 9,Knowledge (Tactics) 2.5, Spellcraft 9|-|-

12th|Duskblade 10|

+12

|

+10

|

+3

|

+7

+13

|

+10

|

+3

|

+7

+14

|

+12

|

+3

|

+7

|Balance 9, Concentration 12, Jump 6, Intimidate 6, Knowledge(Arcana) 11,Knowledge (Tactics) 3, Spellcraft 11.5|-|Battle Clarity(reflex saves), Weapon Aptitude

15th|Bloodstorm Blade 1|

+15

|

+14

|

+3

|

+7

|Balance 10, Concentration 13, Jump 7, Intimidate 7, Knowledge(Arcana) 11,Knowledge (Tactics) 3.5, Spellcraft 12|Power Throw|Returning Attacks, Throw Anything, Weapon Aptitude

16th|Bloodstorm Blade 2|

+16

|

+15

|

+3

|

+7

|Balance 11, Concentration 14, Jump 8, Intimidate 8, Knowledge(Arcana) 11,Knowledge (Tactics) 4, Spellcraft 12.5|-|Martial Throw, Thunderous Throw

17th|Bloodstorm Blade 3|

+17

|

+15

|

+4

|

+8

+18

|

+15

|

+4

|

+8

+19

|

+17

|

+5

|

+9

|Balance 13, Concentration 16, Jump 11, Intimidate 11, Knowledge(Arcana) 11,Knowledge (Tactics) 5.5, Spellcraft 14|-|-

20th|Duskblade 13|

+20

|

+17

|

+5

|

+9

|Balance 14, Concentration 17, Jump 12, Intimidate 12, Knowledge(Arcana) 11,Knowledge (Tactics) 6, Spellcraft 15|-|Arcane Channeling (Full Attack)[/table]

Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|4|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|5|4|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|6|5|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|6|6|3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|6|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|6|7|6|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|6|7|6|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|6|8|7|3|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|6|8|7|5|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|6|8|8|6|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|6|9|8|6|2|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Maneuvers(IL= 12.5 at lvl 20):
Wall of Blades(2nd)
Action Before Thought(2nd)
Emerald Razor(2nd)

Stances:
Punishing Stance(1st)

Through his Life

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Level 5
At this point Guvikoth is still relatively early in his training and only has rudimentary use of his arcane abilities. Using arcane channeling with any weapon he is proficient with he can decimate any enemy.

Level 10
At this point, his powers are starting to come into their own, he has further control of his ray spells thanks to Point Blank Shot and can further use his Rock Hurling ability thanks to Brutal Throw.

Level 15
Now Guvikoth starts coming into his ability to start blending his arcane and martial talents. He can literally throw any weapon he is proficient with and have it return to him.

Level 16*Sweet Spot*
Having gained the ability Martial Throw from Bloodstorm Blade, Guvikoth can now treat his thrown attacks as melee attacks for the purposes of Arcane Channeling and Martial Strikes, dealing even more devatating blows to enemies.

Level 20
At this point, Guvikoth's abilities have matured so well that he can now blend thrown attacks and melee attacks interchangeably all while channeling his arcane abilities through his attacks. He can even grapple enemies, charge them with arcane channeling and throw them back into their own ranks, wreaking havoc with their own allies.

The Challenge

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Notes

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I took a very liberal interpretation of Fling Enemy works in that I treat it as a thrown attack. I just loved the idea of a goliath running around the battlefield, grabbing enemies, charging them with arcane energies and throwing them into their allies.

What The Build Needs(Or the things it needs to qualify)
-Casting at least 3rd level spells or their equivalent- 4th level duskblades spells
-Medium Armor or better - Duskblade covers this
-Being Undead (Lich Template is the preferred way to get this ability) - Necropolitan

-Bonus points for not being a Cleric or Druid - Dukblade is neither

-Preferably the use of some type of weapon - Does any weapon count? :D
-The ability to mix, magic and swordplay - Duskblade, Warblade mix

Sources

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Warblade/Bloodstorm blade - Tome of the Nine page 20 and 100 respectively
Duskblade - PHB 2 pg 19
Fighter - PHB 1 pg 37
Fling Enemy, rock hurling - Races of Stone pg 140, 143
brutal throw, power throw - Complete Adventurer 106, 111
shock trooper - complete warrior pg 112
power attack, improved Unarmed strike, bullrush, grapple and point blank shot all from PHB 1

Challenge Requirements.
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(3.75), Elegance(4.25), Flavor(4.5)
Guigarci; Power(4), Elegance(4.5), Flavor(3)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(4), Elegance(4), Flavor(3)
Kulosle; Power(3), Elegance(4.5), Flavor(3.2)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)

Keldath, Warden of the Restless Dead
LN Evolved Undead Necropolitan Dwarf Warblade 1/Wizard 4/Runesmith 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Abjurant Champion 4

Backstory:

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Lo! Brave warriors of the clan!

Remember good king Keldath, ruler of the north! A will of iron, a heart of steel, death could not purge his worth.

On the throne of skulls, still he sits, lest the dead set themselves to roaming.

A watchful eye, a wrathful heart, combine to pierce the gloaming.

The Warden's crown upon his head, he watches o'er the dishonored dead. None escape his scrutiny!

Let all stout hearted dwarves rejoice, and find honorable death and glory!

Stats:

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Str - 16
Dex - 12
Con - 10
Int - 18
Wis - 10
Cha - 6

Stats after Crucimigration, Evolved Undead, and Levels

Str - 18
Dex - 12
Con - --
Int - 23
Wis - 14
Cha - 8

The Build:

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{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Warblade 1|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Balance 4, Concentration 4, Craft(Stoneworking) 4, Diplomacy 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge(Arcana) (1), Knowledge(History) 2, Knowledge(Religion) (2), Tumble 4|Power Attack|Battle Clarity(Relfex Saves), Weapon Aptitude

2nd|Wizard 1|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

+2

|

+2

|

+0

|

+3

+2

|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|Concentration 7, Craft(Stoneworking) 7, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Spellcraft 6|-|

5th|Wizard 4|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+4

|Concentration 8, Craft(Stoneworking) 8, Knowledge(The Planes) 2, Spellcraft 8|-|

6th|Runesmith 1|

+3

|

+5

|

+1

|

+6

|Concentration 9, Knowledge(Arcana) 7, Spellcraft 9, Collector of Stories|Improved Turn Resistance|Rune Magic, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

7th|Jade Phoenix Mage 1|

+4

|

+7

|

+1

|

+8

+5

|

+8

|

+1

|

+8

+6

|

+8

|

+2

|

+9

+7

|

+8

|

+2

|

+11

|Concentration 13, Intimidate 8, Knowledge(Arcana) 10, Knowledge(The Planes) (4), Swift Concentration|-|Abjurant Armor, Extended Abjuration, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

11th|Abjurant Champion 2|

+8

|

+8

|

+2

|

+12

+9

|

+9

|

+3

|

+12

|Concentration 15, Intimidate 10, Knowledge(Arcana) 8, Knowledge(The Planes) (8)|Steady Concentration|+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

13th|Abjurant Champion 4|

+10

|

+9

|

+3

|

+13

+11

|

+10

|

+3

|

+13

+12

|

+10

|

+3

|

+13

+13

|

+11

|

+4

|

+14

+14

|

+11

|

+4

|

+14

+15

|

+12

|

+4

|

+14

|Concentration 21, Knowledge(Nature) (3), Tumble 21|Martial Stance (Aura of Perfect Order)|Quickening Strike, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class

19th|Jade Phoenix Mage 9|

+16

|

+12

|

+5

|

+15

+17

|

+13

|

+5

|

+15

|Concentration 23, Knowledge(Nature) (9), Tumble 23|-|Emerald Immolation, +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class[/table]

Spells per day/Spells Known

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{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|4|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-

10th|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-

11th|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-

12th|4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-

13th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-

14th|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-

15th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-

16th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-

17th|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-

18th|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-

19th|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|2|-

20th|4|4|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|1[/table]

1st level Maneuvers:
Stone Bones
Steel Wind Strike
Leading the Attack

2nd level Maneuvers:
Foehammer

3rd level Maneuvers:
Revitalizing Strike

4th level Maneuvers:
Divine Surge

5th level Maneuvers:
Law Bearer

6th level Maneuvers:
Rallying Strike

7th level Maneuvers:
Castigating Strike

Stances:
Punishing Stance
Thicket of Blades
Aura of Perfect Order

Level Breakpoint

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Level 20

Keldath is a Battle Lich in the following ways:

He has +17 BAB, allowing him to really mix it up in melee. He grabs a nice two-handed weapon, quickens an Abjurant Champion enhanced Shield Spell, and starts beating face. Arcane Strike lets him burn spell slots to really put the hurt on. Knowledge Devotion combined with good knowledge skills and the Collector of Stories skill trick mean he's getting a decent added punch against any foe he can identify.
His martial maneuvers give him serious punch and survivability in a fight. Aura of Perfect Order lets him auto succeed on most concentration checks, which guarantees that he can get his spells off. He can also consistently make his saves. His maneuvers give him a good mix of versatile options from tanking, healing, and straight up damage.
A Lich is an undead spellcaster, and ridiculously hard to kill. As a Necropolitan, Keldath is undead, has turning resistance, heals naturally, and has Fast Healing from the Evolved Undead template. To top it all off, thanks to the Jade Phoenix Mage capstone, once per week he can explode in a fiery burst when he is near death to fry his foes, and then reform fully healed and intact a few rounds later. Jade Phoenix Mage also gives him access to an easy way to get some nice Damage Reduction (or he can just buff with Stoneskin).
He can cast 9th level wizard spells, so if beating face as an angry, undead dwarven necromancer in fullplate doesn't work, he can always resort to Gate, Wish, or Shapechange shenanigans.
He can cast in full platemail, thanks to Runesmith
He's not a Cleric or Druid.

He picks up the Evolved Undead Template around level 11 or 12 and snags Greater Dispel Magic as his spell-like ability. He can crush his foes in melee, command or create powerful undead, and if that doesn't work, he has 9th level spells to fall back on.

Challenge Requirements
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[Half-Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(3.75), Elegance(3.75), Flavor(3.5)
Guigarci; Power(4), Elegance(3.9), Flavor(3.5)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(4), Elegance(4.5), Flavor(3.75)
Kulosle; Power(5), Elegance(2), Flavor(3)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

No Sources

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)

Please Keep in mind I do not edit the sheets sent into me I take them as they were. I'll add the character name or witty title if none exists to identify the build.

----------------------------------------------------

Lowe Miedaehl

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Human -Lowe Miedaehl- (GraveTouched Ghoul +2LA(Bought off))[Undead] - Worshiper Of Doresain (Even Before Death)
1 ~ 6 Bard
7 ~ 11 Lyric Thamaturge (die @ lvl 9)
12 ~ 20 Sumblime Chord
Hp=20D12

Feats
level 1 - Melodic Casting
Human - Energy Substitution(Electric)(MetaMagic)
Level 3 - Born Of the Three Thunder (MetaMagic)
Level 6 - Song Of The Dead (MetaMagic)
Level 9 - Battle Caster (Bard And Sublime Chord)
Level 12 - Extend Spell (MetaMagic)
Level 15 - Improved Turn Resistance [Monsterous]
Level 18 - Lyric Spell [Bardic Music]
GraveTouched Ghoul-- Str+2 Dex +4 Con - Int +2 Wis +4 Cha +2, Turn Resistence +2, Diet dependent (Flesh), Paralysis(Upon bite or claw Fort. Save DC=10+1/2HD*CHA Mod),Feat + MultiAttack, Bite attack of 1D6+str, Claw of 1D4+Str, Ghoul Fever On Bite Fort Save DC(Same As Paralysis) Initial + Secondary 1D3 Con + 1D3 Dex(Disease), Natural Armor = 2, Undead Traits

Stats/Skills
Points 32 4 2 2 4 4 16 = 32
Starting Str 12 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 18
Grave Touched Ghoul Str+2 Dex +4 Con - Int +2 Wis +4 Cha +2
Bonus Stat pt's
4 cha
8 cha
12 cha
16 cha
20 cha

Totals Before spells/inhert bonus' /item Str 14 Dex 14 Con - Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 25

Lvl 20 Totals after spells/inhert bonus'/item Str 14 Dex 20 Con - Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 38 (Only added inhert bonus of +5 to CHA, And no item bonus, just spells)
Notable Skills/senses -- (Improvisation NOT Included)
Disguise = 23+14+12+2+10+10=71
Bluff= 23+30+14+10=77 (47 When distracting or NOT lying)
Diplomacy = 23+14+10=47
UMD= 23+14=37
Truesight 120ft
Blindsight 120Ft
DarkVision 240Ft

Spells /day Bard
0/3
1/3+4+1
2/3+3+1
3/3+3
4/1+3

Sublime Chord Spells /day
4/4+3
5/4+3
6/3+2
7/3+2
8/2+2

Bard Spells Known
0th/6- Minor Disguise, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Know Direction, Open/Close
1th/4+1- Distract, Improvisation, Serene Visage, Disguise Self, Expeditious Retreat
2th/4+1- Alter Self, Sonic Weapon, Dark Way, Glibness, False Life
3th/4-Sonic Shield, Phantom Steed, Creaking Cacophony, Wounding Whispers
4th/3-Spell Theft, Voice of the Dragon, Freedom Of Movement

Sublime Chord Spells Known
4th/4- Mirror mage-Greater-, Sirines Grace, Dimension Door, Evard's Black Tentacles
5th/4- Endless Slumber, Dancing Blade, Dragon Sight, Wall Of Force
6th/4- Nixies Grace, Resistance-Superior-, True Seeing, (3rd level Spell) Nondetection
7th/3- Teleport-Greater-, Sword Of Darkness, Hiss Of Sleep
8th/2- Lighting Ring, Mind Blank

+X Glamered Mithral Fullplate Of Nimbleness Armor Check -1 + masterwork = Armor Check -0

AC=10 + fullplate of +X (8+X) Dex +5 (+5 Armor limit) Natural +2 Deflection +14 =39+X

So the rundown is to be disguised 99.99% of the time, no one ever knows I am undead, and that I really just want a bite of em. To help with this A great deal of magic is used to enhance my disguise and bluff skills, even those with truesight still have to beat a disguise of 51(At least).
With hiss of sleep and being a very charismatic bard it's fairly easy to lure someone to a secluded location to make a meal of them.
But should things go bad many soon realize I am a force to be reckoned with, with a hefty amount of buff's to stats, skills, attakcs, and damage Along with a sword of darkness to hit myself in the back(or enemies) along with evards tentacles, mirror images-greater-, spelltheft, freedom of movement, and an effective caster lvl of 24(using a bardic music use and abily gained from sublime chord).
And for damage a lighting ring that will do 10d6(Electric/sonic)+8d6 sonic, with two free 5d6(Electric/Sonic)+3d6(Sonic) bolts a round all of with can cause enemies to be knocked prone as well as a dancing whip + sonic weapon that has a BaB of 20 and attack/damage mod of my CHA mod can make for alot of tripped munchies to eat.
And to be koscher I took the metamagic feat from dragon magazines/compendium Song of the Dead to effect myself with mind effecting spells.(It is a +1 spell change). Also note that I took nondetection as a sumblime chord spell known, this means I can only use sublime chord spell slot to cast it, all of which are 4th lvl or higher.

Challenge Requirements
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[No Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(2.95), Elegance(4.3), Flavor(3.5)
Guigarci; Power(3), Elegance(5), Flavor(2.2)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Kulosle; Power(3.5), Elegance(4), Flavor(2)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)

Avalon the Fallen General

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Avalon’s family used to be well known and respected in all the realm. Many of his ancestors were considered as great paladins and their names appeared in more than one bardic song. Despite his objections the young Avalon had to continue the familial tradition and joined the order of the Swords of the High One as a squire.
Despite his character being so different from his battle brothers, Avalon managed to find his place. His intellect allowed him to quickly raise in the orders hierarchy. The focus of the order on magic allowed him to develop his aptitude in the arcane arts for wich he had some talents. Howether despite his success he always seemed to be distant from the others and that distance between him and his brothers continued to grow. He started to skip the daily prayers, he no longer eat with the others. The more arcane strength he got the more he isolated.
Concerned for his state the orders council sent him to assist a group on a diplomatic mission. They hoped that some time spent away from the library would benefit him and allow him to make some ties with other members of the order.
They couldn’t know that the only thing he was waiting for is a pretext to get away ...

The General Idea:

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There are two kind of leaders: the one that give orders from the top of a hill and the ones that give orders while being at the center of the battle. I wanted Avalon to give some feel of a leader of the second kind. He will not charge on head first but will examinate the battle field find the place were he can make the difference and then join the fight in order to win. I wanted to make a lich that is not focused only on necromancy. I thought that a buffer like caster would fit the best for a Fighter/Wizard style character. The hardest challenge was to get to cast in heavy armor. Its probably not the most original idea ever but i hope you like it.

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Paladin 1|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+2

+3

|

+3

|

+0

|

+3

|Skills|-|-

5th|Wizard 3|

+3

|

+4

|

+1

|

+3

|Skills|-|-

6th|High One Warrior-Wizard 4|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

+5

|

+6

|

+1

|

+6

+5

|

+6

|

+1

|

+8

+6

|

+6

|

+1

|

+9

+6

|

+7

|

+2

|

+9

+7

|

+7

|

+2

|

+10

+7

|

+7

|

+2

|

+10

+8

|

+7

|

+2

|

+12

+9

|

+7

|

+2

|

+13

+10

|

+8

|

+3

|

+13

+11

|

+8

|

+3

|

+14

+12

|

+8

|

+3

|

+14

+12

|

+8

|

+3

|

+14

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|-|-|-

20th|Lich LA|

-

|

-

|

-

|

-

|-|-|-[/table]

Stats:
Str 18 --+4--> 22(at lv 16)
Dex 14
Con 8
Int 16 (18 with lich template)
Wis 8 (10 with lich template)
Cha 8 (10 with lich template)

Build Description:

Spoiler

Show

lv 1-5:
These build start with 2 Lv of paladin and then Jump into the Wizard variant with fighter feats. The build dont offer much during these lvls. The high strengh score is our main strength at this point. At 5lv we get acces to the various buffing spells (bull’s strength ...) wich will be helpful to the sword and magic style.

lv 6-10
At 6th lv we take the wizard substitution lv wich reduce armor spell failure by 20%. This is the main reason for taking the 2 Paladin lvls at the start. We get also one of the feats around wich i built the character wich allow us to get more benefit from buffing spells, this will help to compensate a little bit the low bab by boosting strength even more . With a lv of spellsword we gain an additionnal 10% reduction to make it a total of 30% wich allow us to wear an ordinary Fullplate armor without risking to loose spells. War Weaver seemed like a nice class for a General like character. Thanks to the Eldritch Tapestry We get to save time buffing the party by buffing them all (if the int modifier allow it) with one casting. The most interesting feature is the possibility of storing buffing spells into the tapestry and cast them all in one move action. At 10 lv we can cast 2 3rd lv spells this way. We get also to caster lv 7 wich is the beginning of the road as a necromancer by getting access to animate dead. At this point we can start to feel the flavor of the character: Buffing a group of minions with one move and then lead them into battle.

lv 11-15 (sweet spot)
The next step in becoming the supreme undead leader is to become an undead. And there is only one kind of undead suitted to be a leader: a lich. In order to become a lich we need to craft a phylatrecy wich requires a cl11 and the craft wonderous items feat. We will reach these goals by lv 14 after taking our first lvs in the abjurant champion class. This class will help us to continue improving our spellcasting abilities without neglecting bab. The bonuses works well with the War weather allowing us to cast better Improved Mage Armors on our minions. Becoming a lich will allow us to add an additionnal person to the Tapestry and to benefit from the Fell Energy Spell. At this point unless we were allowed to use the good lich[This is fine for purposes of the challenge] variant we will probably loose the paladin powers(turning the two paladin lvs into Ex-Paladin). At lv 15 we will take the Metamagic Scholl focus to allow us to store a Fell Energy Draconic Might in the Tapestry. This is the point were the build can realize it main trik: cast a bunch of buffs and tenser’s or nightstalker’s transformation in one round and then jump into the action.

lv 16-18
The next lvs focus on improving our casting abilities and getting some more triks to give the feel of an arcane fighter. By lv 18 we reach cl15 wich is just enough to cast 8th lv spells (Bite of the weretiger become avaible giving huge stat bonuses and claw attacks that can get some bonus damage thanks to the lichs touch attack).

Sources:

Spoiler

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Player’s Handbook (Paladin Wizard, Combat Casting, Spell Focus, Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Extend Spell, Craft Wonderous Item)
Monster Manual(Lich Template)
Complete Warrior (Spellsword, Arcane Strike)
Complete Mage (Abjurant Champion, Metamagic School Focus)
Heroes of battle (War Weaver, profession(siege engineer))
Champions of valor(web) (High One Warrior-Wizard substitution lvs)
Dragon Compedium(Fell energy spell p98, Ability Enhancer p91)
Unearthed Arcana (variant wizard p59)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Challenge Requirements
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(4.3), Elegance(4.25), Flavor(4.5)
Guigarci; Power(3.9), Elegance(4.5), Flavor(4.3)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Kulosle; Power(4), Elegance(3), Flavor(4.6)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

**Vknight** · 2013-07-05, 11:59 PM (ISO 8601)

King Desmond Blackwing
Curst Human Dread Necromancer 8/Crusader 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10
"His majesty shall rise from every ash."

The Tale

Spoiler

Show

No parent wants their child to fall ill, much less royalty. So when King Duncan and Queen Adalia learned their son, rightful heir to the Blackwing line, had fallen ill with a horrible disease, they enlisted the services of the best magicians, most devout clerics, and most studied doctors in the land. One, an old man well beyond his years, had rasped a word of prophecy to them: "His majesty shall rise from every ash." Taking it as a sign of hope, the King and Queen sent their son to the elderly man for healing. But the boy who returned was not quite Desmond.

The young prince never smiled, instead taking to his room which he christened his "labratory." He was convinced that he had received no healing, but instead been cursed with life. His many experiments were brutal and traumatizing to his parents and subjects alike. But still, he had the right of kings. Duncan, afraid that Desmond would be too weak and soft-willed to rule, forced him to enlist in the military along with the common infantry and noble knights.

They hoped Desmond would take to war, but were unprepared with the gusto with which he threw himself into the fray. His reckless abandon inspired fear in his allies and foes alike; he was soon commanding legions with shouted commands and threats of violence. No battle was too daunting, no odds too overwhelming for the young man who had become convinced he could not die.

So advanced was Desmond's hubris that he hatched a plan to usurp the throne from his father--an older man, but still fit and sound of mind. It was a bloodbath, and after that fateful day none questioned if Desmond had what it took to rule with an iron fist.

As soon as he took the crown, he also began to construct his army. Desmond's troops were neither the fit nor the willing; instead, he chose soldiers from the sickly. Strangely, the same disease that had almost claimed him as a boy had started spreading like a plague throughout the land. Each time someone was about to be claimed by the disease, they were whisked to the castle and emerged a few days later, strangely quiet and blanched. They fought with great zeal at Desmond's side, and soon he had developed a military to be feared.

The subjects of the Blackwing Kingdom were once a happy folk, but that was many centuries ago. For thousands of years now, they have lived in fear...waiting for the disease to mark them as the next soldiers in King Desmond's forever-marching army. His kingdom continues unabated and will continue for millenia still, burning brightly but providing no warmth.

The Build:

Spoiler

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{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features
1|Curst LA|||||||Undead (augmented humanoid), d12 HDs, +3 Natural Armor, Slam Attack (1d4), Fast Healing 1, Immune to Cold/Fire, SR 12+CL, Turning Immunity, Unkillable (can only be killed by totally destroying the body via disintegrate, undeath to death, etc. or remove curse)
2|Dread Necro 1|+0|+0|+0|+2|Concentration 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (arcana) 2, Knowledge (religion) 2|Dreadful Wrath, Mother Cyst|Charnel Touch, Rebuke Undead
3|Dread Necro 2|+1|+0|+0|+3|Concentration 5, Intimidate 5, Knowledge (arcana) 3, Knowledge (religion) 2||Lich Body DR 2
4|Dread Necro 3|+1|+1|+1|+3|Concentration 6, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (arcana) 3, Knowledge (religion) 3|Battle Caster|Negative Energy Burst 1/day
5|Dread Necro 4|+2|+1|+1|+4|Concentration 7, Intimidate 7, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 3||Advanced Learning (Kelgore's Grave Mist), Mental Bastion +2
6|Dread Necro 5|+2|+1|+1|+4|Concentration 8, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (religion) 4||Fear Aura
7|Dread Necro 6|+3|+2|+2|+5|Concentration 9, Intimidate 9, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 4|Arcane Strike|Scabrous Touch 1/day
8|Dread Necro 7|+3|+2|+2|+5|Concentration 10, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5||Lich Body DR 4, Summon Familiar
9|Crusader 1|+4|+4|+2|+5|Concentration 11, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 0.5, Never Outnumbered||Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5
10|JPM 1|+5|+6|+2|+5|Concentration 12, Intimidate 12, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 1, Never Outnumbered|Stone Power|Arcane Wrath, Rite of Waking
11|JPM 2|+6|+7|+2|+5|Concentration 13, Intimidate 13, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 1.5, Never Outnumbered||Mystic Phoenix Stance
12|JPM 3|+7|+7|+3|+6|Concentration 14, Intimidate 14, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 2, Never Outnumbered||
13|JPM 4|+8|+8|+3|+6|Concentration 15, Intimidate 15, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 2.5, Never Outnumbered|Divine Might|Empowering Strike
14|JPM 5|+9|+8|+3|+6|Concentration 16, Intimidate 16, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 3, Never Outnumbered||
15|JPM 6|+10|+9|+4|+7|Concentration 17, Intimidate 17, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 3.5, Never Outnumbered||Firebird Stance, Jade Phoenix Master
16|JPM 7|+11|+9|+4|+7|Concentration 18, Intimidate 18, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 4, Never Outnumbered|Versatile Spellcaster|
17|JPM 8|+12|+10|+4|+7|Concentration 19, Intimidate 19, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 4.5, Never Outnumbered||Quickening Strike
18|JPM 9|+13|+10|+5|+8|Concentration 20, Intimidate 20, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5, Never Outnumbered||
19|JPM 10|+14|+11|+5|+8|Concentration 21, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 5.5, Never Outnumbered|Practiced Spellcaster|Emerald Immolation
20|Dread Necro 8|+15|+11|+5|+9|Concentration 22, Intimidate 22, Knowledge (arcana) 5, Knowledge (religion) 5, Spellcraft 6, Never Outnumbered||Advanced Learning, Negative Energy Burst 2/day, Undead Mastery[/table]

{table=head]Attribute|Base|Points|Curst|Total
STR|14|6|2|16
DEX|10|2|0|10
CON|8|0|--|--
INT|14|6|-4|10
WIS|10|2|-6|4
CHA|18|16|-2|16[/table]

Dread Necromancer Spells per Day
{table=head]Level|1st level|2nd level|3rd level|4th level|5th level|6th level|7th level|8th level|9th level
1|||||||||
2|3||||||||
3|4||||||||
4|5||||||||
5|6|3|||||||
6|6|4|||||||
7|6|5|3||||||
8|6|6|4||||||
9|6|6|4||||||
10|6|6|4||||||
11|6|6|5|3|||||
12|6|6|6|4|||||
13|6|6|6|5|3||||
14|6|6|6|6|4||||
15|6|6|6|6|4||||
16|6|6|6|6|5|3|||
17|6|6|6|6|6|4|||
18|6|6|6|6|6|5|3||
19|6|6|6|6|6|6|4||
20|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|[/table]

Maneuvers Known
{table=head]Level|IL|Maneuvers & Stances Known
1|0|
2|0|
3|1|
4|1|
5|2|
6|2|
7|3|
8|3.5|
9|4.5|Mountain Hammer, Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Charging Minotaur, Douse the Flames, Martial Spirit
10|5.5|Burning Blade
11|6.5|
12|7.5|Searing Charge
13|8.5|
14|9.5|Thicket of Blades, Leaping Flame
15|10.5|
16|11.5|Desert Tempest
17|12.5|
18|13.5|Castigating Strike
19|14.5|
20|15.5|[/TABLE]

The Cake:

Spoiler

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Casting at least 3rd-level spells: We actually have 8th level spells from Dread Necromancer, with a side of 6th-level maneuvers. We can actually initiate 7th-level maneuvers, but don't learn any at Jade Phoenix Mage's 10th level.
Casting in medium armor or better: Dread Necromancers can cast in light armor, and Battle Caster allows us to up that to medium. We don't really mind if folks actually hit us though, since we're a Bucket of HP in command of an army of Buckets of HP.
Being Undead: The Curst template does that quite nicely, thanks.
Not being a cleric or druid: How about something that both of them revile?
Using some type of weapon: Dread Necromancer grants proficiency in a martial weapon, as does Crusader. Pick your favorite, but I always love me some greatsword.
Mixing magic and swordplay: Not only do we mix them, but we combine them together to strengthen both. Our spell slots can be used to supercharge our attacks, and when we hit with martial strikes we can empower or quicken spells for free. Nothing quite like tossing out Empowered Quickened Enervations while stabbing people to death, is there?

The Icing:

Spoiler

Show

The Fear of the People: between Dreadful Wrath, Fear Aura, Intimidate maxed out, and Never Outnumbered, Desmond is stacking on the fear to make folks flee. Whenever he draws near, they're shaken. Casting a spell, charging, or full attacking activates Dreadful Wrath. If that doesn't work, in the next round he can still intimidate those who think themselves courageous. When they flee, Desmond strikes with an AoO. If a shaken foe thinks they can 5-foot step away, Thicket of Blades tells them they've got another thing coming. There's no escape. Granted, we could have added Imperious Command (and still can if flaws are allowed), but we don't want our subjects to cower...we want them to run.
I've Got Blisters on Me Fingers!: Mother Cyst adds a few flavorful additions to our spell list, including the ability to dominate creatures with ease before a wizard can. The real star of the show, though, is Necrotic Empowerment. It not only buffs up our poorest abilities (which helps our Will saves for things like Undeath to Death if they can actually overcome our SR), but it also provides us with 100 temporary HP. Assuming any enemy can get through those, we can keep using Stone Power (which we can activate alongside Dreadful Wrath) to regain plenty of temporary HP. More on that later.
Bring the Pain: Arcane Strike is pretty standard for gishes, but we want more icing on our damage cake. Divine Might gives us a use for our turn attempts to add CHA to our damage (easily boostable with items), and the Jade Phoenix Mage's Arcane Wrath lets us start off our impressive barrage with one big bang. The good news is that Dread Necromancers have plenty of spell slots to burn, so we can use one as a free action for Arcane Strike, one as a swift action for Arcane Wrath, and a turn attempt as a free action for Divine Might all in the same round...for when you get bored casting 8th-level Dread Necromancer spells. We also have a slew of maneuvers that allow us to drop some serious hurt, and all three of our damage boosters work with them, too.
Can't Touch This: So, we can get 100 temporary HP. But they run out eventually, right? Well, we still have Stone Power to grant more temporary HP while attacking and Dreadful Wrathing. If that's not enough, we've got d12 HDs, fast healing 1 from being Curst alongside DR 4 from Dread Necromancer and 5 points of delayed damage from Crusader. Out of combat, we can use the Dread necromancer's negative energy touch and burst to heal ourselves and undead minions/allies back to full. Assuming that an enemy can chip through all of that, and we soak up enough in our delayed damage pool that we're about to go...hello Emerald Immolation! We go out in a blaze of glory that will probably wipe out the enemy that's still standing in our war of attrition, and we come back all topped off. Did I mention we have minions that can use similar tricks?
Say Hello to my Little Friend: the great thing about the Curst template is that an evil spellcaster [present!] can create them by casting Bestow Curse on a dying subject, followed by create undead or greater create undead. Conveniently, all three spells happen to be on our list, and we've got enough slots to spam it away. So go ahead and create an army of unstoppable killing machines, because why not? Command Undead can be spammed at them, and Practiced Spellcaster along with the CL boost from Jade Phoenix Mage's Mystic Phoenix Stance will allow you to get around their pesky SR. Enjoy your unkillable, unturnable, loyal servants. Even if you need to go bye-bye via Emerald Immolation, the big belch of fire damage you do on your way out won't harm your Curst minions, because they're also immune to fire and cold. Leave them behind to finish the job.
Ask Your DM: If you can create a Curst using Bestow Curse and create undead (or greater create undead), what can you do with GREATER Bestow Curse? We can pick this up at level 20 via advanced learning, and ideally we can use this to make a Greater Curst--I'm picturing an undead with all the attributes of a Curst, but they can only be killed by a Miracle. It's pretty strong, but it had better be.

The Recipe:

Spoiler

Show

Lost Empires of Faerun (Curst template)
Heroes of Horror (Dread Necromancer)
Tome of Battle (Crusader, Stone Power, Jade Phoenix Mage, maneuvers)
Libris Mortis (Mother Cyst)
Player's Guide to Faerun (Dreadful Wrath)
Complete Scoundrel (Never Outnumbered)
Complete Arcane (Battle Caster, Practiced Spellcaster)
Complete Warrior (Arcane Strike, Divine Might)
Races of the Dragon: Versatile Spellcaster

Challenge Requirements
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(4.75), Elegance(4.25), Flavor(4.5)
Guigarci; Power(4.3), Elegance(5), Flavor(4.2)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Kulosle; Power(4.4), Elegance(4.6), Flavor(4)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

Anyone got a download link for Lost Empires of Faerun?

**Vknight** · 2013-07-06, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)

Aerestaer the Wind of Death
LE Dracolich Venerable Wyrm of War Dragonwrought Kobold Duskblade 13/Blackguard 3/Crusader 2
Ability Scores

Spoiler

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Point Buy:
Str 17, Dex 11, Con 8, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 15
Adjustments for Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 6, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 18
Adjustments for Dracolich Template
Str 13, Dex 13, Con - , Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 20
All stat increases from levels go to strength.

Freeze Them All…

Spoiler

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Every lizardfolk knows of the horror that was the Great Cold Night. Armies of the Dead marched in to our desert from the north, bringing sickness and destruction in their wake. Our people died in numbers beyond counting to the nameless, shambling legions, but worse still were the captains, possessed of cruel, cunning minds and powers beyond those of mortals. Of these dread abominations, none is regarded with greater horror than Aerestaer, the Wind of Death. The skeletal kobold who singlehandedly destroyed entire armies, dragging the corpses of our brethren off of the battlefield to serve his vile purposes.

I am the only one yet living who has gazed upon Aerestaer’s visage, and it was I who at long last brought him down. Even after the host he marched with had been destroyed, he fought on. Many fell rigid from his gaze alone, and those who endured the sight fared little better. I saw many of my brothers struck down by the horrible chain that the monster carried, and which lashed out all around him like a howling wind, carrying fell magic and the touch of undeath with it. Those it touched were first frozen stiff then torn to pieces unable to protect themselves. It seemed that the desert’s night had fallen on us all, but we fought on. Finally, in the end, we prevailed. With my hammer, his terror was finally ended. I smashed every bone in his skeletal body to dust. I’ll never forget the twisted grin on his horrible face or the gleam of light in his dead eyes, even as I caved his skull in.

To the very last, he kept hissing the same words in draconic: “Freeze them all. Freeze them all.” Even when nothing remained of him the wind still seemed to whisper those words in his horrible cold voice.

The Build

Spoiler

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{table=head]ECL|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Duskblade 1|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

|Concentration 4, Spellcraft 4, Knowledge(Religion) 4, Craft (Trapmaking) 4 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 4, Hide 2 (cross class) |Dragonwrought|Arcane Attunement, Armored Mage (Light), Wyrm of War Sovereign Archetype (Fighter Bonus Feat every 4 HD)

3rd|Dracolich LA|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

| Concentration 4, Spellcraft 4, Knowledge(Religion) 4, Craft (Trapmaking) 4 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 4, Hide 2 (cross class)|-|+2 Natural Armor, +1d6 Cold Damage on each hit, Control Undead 1/3 days, Paralyzing Gaze, Paralyzing Touch, DR 5/Bludgeoning, Immunities, Invulnerability, SR 16, Undead Type, +2 Cha

4th|Duskblade 2|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+3

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

| Concentration 6, Spellcraft 6, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 6 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 6, Hide 3 (cross class), Diplomacy ½ (cross class) |Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Spiked Chain)|Arcane Channeling

6th|Duskblade 4|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

| Concentration 7, Spellcraft 7, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 7 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 7, Hide 3 ½ (cross class), Diplomacy 1 (cross class) |Power Attack (Wyrm of War Bonus Feat)|Armored Mage (Medium)

7th|Duskblade 5|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

| Concentration 8, Spellcraft 8, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 8 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 8, Hide 4 (cross class), Diplomacy 1½ (cross class) |-|Quick Cast 1/day

8th|Duskblade 6|

+6/+1

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

| Concentration 9, Spellcraft 9, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 9 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 9, Hide 4 ½ (cross class), Diplomacy 2(cross class) |Cleave|Spell Power +2

9th| Duskblade 7|

+7/+2

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

| Concentration 10, Spellcraft 10, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 10 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 10, Hide 5 (cross class), Diplomacy 2½ (cross class) |-|Armored Mage (Heavy Shield)

10th| Duskblade 8|

+8/+3

|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

| Concentration 11, Spellcraft 11, Knowledge(Religion) 11, Craft (Trapmaking) 11 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 11, Hide 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 1, Diplomacy 3 (cross class) |Combat Expertise (Wyrm of War Bonus Feat)|-

11th| Duskblade 9|

+9/+4

|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

| Concentration 12, Spellcraft 12, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 12 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 12, Hide 5, Diplomacy 3½ (cross class) , Knowledge (Arcana) 2,|Dodge|-

12th| Duskblade 10|

+10/+5

|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

| Concentration 13, Spellcraft 13, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 13 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 13, Hide 5, Diplomacy 4 (cross class) Knowledge (Arcana) 3|-|Quick Cast 2/day

13th| Duskblade 11|

+11/+6/+1

|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

| Concentration 14, Spellcraft 14, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 14 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 14, Hide 5, Diplomacy 4½ (cross class), Knowledge (Arcana) 4|-|Spell Power +3

14th| Duskblade 12|

+12/+7/+2

|

+8

|

+4

|

+8

| Concentration 15, Spellcraft 15, Knowledge(Religion) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 15 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 15, Hide 5, Diplomacy 5 (cross class), Knowledge(Arcana) 5|Mobility, Improved Sunder (Wyrm of War Bonus Feat)|-

15th| Duskblade 13|

+13/+8/+3

|

+8

|

+4

|

+8

| Concentration 16, Spellcraft 16, Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 16 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 16, Hide 5, Diplomacy 6, Knowledge(Arcana) 5|-|Arcane Channeling (Full Attack)

16th|Blackguard 1|

+14/+9/+4

|

+10

|

+4

|

+8

| Concentration 17, Spellcraft 17 (cross class), Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 17 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 17, Hide 5, Diplomacy 7, Knowledge(Arcana) 5|-|Aura of Evil, Detect Good, Poison Use

17th| Blackguard 2|

+15/+10/+5

|

+11

|

+4

|

+8

| Concentration 18, Spellcraft 18 (cross class), Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 18 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 18, Hide 5, Diplomacy 8, Knowledge(Arcana) 5|Spring Attack|Dark Blessing, Smite Good 1/day

18th| Blackguard 3|

+16/+11/+6/+1

|

+12

|

+5

|

+9

| Concentration 19, Spellcraft 19 (cross class), Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 19, Craft (Poisonmaking) 19, Hide 5, Diplomacy 9, Knowledge(Arcana) 5|Whirlwind Attack (Wyrm of War Bonus Feat)|Command Undead, Aura of Despair

19th| Crusader 1|

+17/+12/+7/+2

|

+14

|

+5

|

+9

| Concentration 20, Spellcraft 20 (cross class), Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 20 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 20, Hide 5, Diplomacy 12, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty)|-|Furious Counterstrike, Steely Resolve 5

20th| Crusader 2|

+18/+13/+8/+3

|

+15

|

+5

|

+9

| Concentration 21, Spellcraft 21 (cross class), Knowledge(Religion) 6, Craft (Trapmaking) 21 , Craft (Poisonmaking) 21, Hide 5, Diplomacy 15, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty) 5|Divine Might| Indomitable Soul[/table]

Spells and Maneuvers

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Duskblade Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]ECL|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th
1st|3/6|2+1/2|-|-| -

3rd|4/6|3+1/3|-|-| -

4th|5/6|4+1/4|-|-| -

5th|6/6|5+1/5|-|-| -

6th|6/6|5+1/5|-|-| -

7th|6/6|6+1/5|2+1/1|-| -

8th|6/6|6+1/5|3+1/2|-| -

9th|6/6|6+1/5|5+1/3|-| -

10th|6/6|7+1/5|6+1/4|-| -

11th|6/6|7+1/5|6+1/4|2+1/1| -

12th|6/6|8+1/5|7+1/4|3+1/2| -

13th|6/6|8+1/5|7+1/4|5+1/3| -

14th|6/6|8+1/5|8+1/4|6+1/4| -

15th|6/6|9+1/5|8+1/4|6+1/4| 2+1/1
[/table]
Spells Known:
Level 0: Acid Splash, Disrupt Undead, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue
Level 1: Shocking Grasp, Chill Touch, Ray of Enfeeblement, True Strike, Blade of Blood
Level 2: Ghoul Touch, Bull’s Strength, Dimension Hop, Melf’s Acid Arrow
Level 3: Vampiric Touch, Dispelling Touch, Greater Magic Weapon, Crown of Might
Level 4: Dimension Door

Aerestaer only gets one first level Blackguard spell, starting at ECL 17. He typically prepares Corrupt Weapon.

Crusader Maneuvers
{table=head]ECL|Maneuvers Known|Maneuvers Readied|Stances Known

19th|Vanguard Strike, Douse The Flames, White Raven Tactics, Defensive Rebuke, Covering Strike|5 (2)| Iron Guard’s Glare

20th|-|5 (2)| Thicket of Blades[/table]

Level Snapshots

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ECL 6: The Dracolich template is picked up as early as possible to get rid of your abysmal Con, and because it is integral to Aerestaer’s trick. The Dracolich’s gives you deals 1d6 extra cold damage and a save or lose paralysis effect on all physical attacks. Not natural, physical, that means with weapons too. At ECL 5 we’ve picked up EWP (Spiked Chain) and Arcane Channeling as well, which means that the skeleton (pun very much intended) of the build is already set up. Hit your enemy with your chain and make them eat an attack, a touch spell, and your paralyzing touch all at once. Being undead, you can coat the weapon in poison (which you can make yourself with your Craft(poisonmaking) ranks) without fear as well, giving them an additional save to roll. You have Craft(trapsmithing) and a +2 racial bonus, which allows you to set traps (which you can also apply poison to) to protect your phylactery.
From there, ECL 6 tacks on the ability to cast in Medium Armor that the challenge wants so badly along with Power Attack for a boost to damage.
Note on taking the Dracolich template as a Dragonwrought Kobold: While taking the Wyrm of War archetype is dependent on the true dragon argument, Dracolich only requires that you be an evil dragon, so a Kobold can definitely take it. The issue for Kobolds becoming Dracoliches is as follows.

Originally Posted by Dracolich Template

A spirit contained in a phylactery can sense any reptilian or dragon corpse of Medium or larger size within 90 feet and attempt to possess it. Under no circumstances can the spirit possess a living body. The spirit's original body is an ideal vessel, and any attempt to possess it is automatically successful. To possess a suitable corpse other than its own, a dracolich must make a successful Charisma check (DC 10 for a true dragon, DC 15 for any other creature of the dragon type, or DC 20 for any other kind of reptilian creature, such as a giant snake or lizardfolk). If the check fails, the dracolich can never possess that particular corpse.

A Kobold Dracolich cannot possess its own corpse by RAW because said corpse is small. Thus, you need to find yourself corpses to try to possess when acquiring the template. That means massacring some lizardfolk or going grave robbing, but you are evil after all, and even with how frail you are at first level, it should be a manageable task acquiring enough corpses to make the chance that you won’t be able to possess any of them negligible. Once you possess a corpse other than your own it assumes your original form over the course of 2d4 days, during which you can’t talk or use spells.

ECL 15: More Duskblade stuff happens, Wyrm of War helps us pump out the feats we need. There’s nothing terribly surprising in the levels between 6 and 15. Aerestaer just gets better at the stuff he was already doing. At ECL 15 he gets full attack channeling, which means his trick starts to really get crazy.

ECL 18 (Sweet Spot): Three levels of Blackguard gets a 1/day Smite Good, Charisma to saves, and Aura of Despair weakens opponents’ saves against paralyzing touch, paralyzing gaze, and the touch spells that you’re handing out. More importantly though, Aerestaer’s finally got Spring Attack, which allows him to take advantage of having reach and keep an individual enemy at bay with AoO’s and such until they fail a save against paralyzing touch or are otherwise beaten down. Even better, he picks up Whirlwind Attack thanks to Wyrm of War, meaning he can hit every enemy within 10 feet as a full attack action, delivering his paralyzing touch and a touch spell to all of them.

ECL 20:A Crusader dip finishes things off. Aerestaer picks up Thicket of Blades to make his Spiked Chain/Paralysis shenanigans even more fearsome, some maneuvers, a second Cha modifier boost to his Will save (Indomitable Soul explicitly doesn’t stack with Divine Grace, but Dark Blessing is not Divine Grace), and the Divine Might feat, which allows him to add his Cha modifier to damage using his Rebuke attempts from Blackguard. He incurs multiclass penalties for the dip, but I think it’s worth it over more Duskblade or Blackguard.

WBL Wish List

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Apart from obviously wanting the best Spiked Chain he can get his hands on and good medium armor, Aerestaer wants anything that can boost his Str, Cha, and Int. He also needs supplies for his crafting.

Source List

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Dracolich Template: Monsters of Faerun
I like to look things up on Google instead of through book diving when possible and didn’t realize until it was too late that Dracolich was updated to 3.5 in Draconomicon, reducing the paralyzing touch to natural attacks only and hence ruining my trick. I’m submitting anyway with the 3.0 version, though I expect to be penalized heavily in elegance.
Dragonwrought: Races of the Dragon
Wyrm of War Sovereign Archetype: Dragons of Eberron
Duskblade: PHII
Crusader: Tome of Battle
Divine Might: Complete Warrior
Everything else should be in the SRD.

---------------------------------------------------

Challenge Requirements
3rd Level Spells[Check], Medium Armor Casting[Check], Undead[Check]

Secondary Challenges
Not Druid/Cleric[Check], Mix Magic & Swordplay[Check]

Judges
Vknight; Power(4), Elegance(3.25), Flavor(4.75)
Guigarci; Power(4.5), Elegance(4.9), Flavor(5)
Vaz; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Zombulian; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()
Kulosle; Power(3.2), Elegance(2.5), Flavor(4.4)

Average; Power(), Elegance(), Flavor()

And that is the last build judges?
After that those that would enter, what were you all planning away and thinking about?
And then as a community time to decide who had the most out there build!

How I Have Been Grading

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Start at 3. Raise did you meet what was called for. Is it effective. and so on. At the end you get the final grades

**Gildedragon** · 2013-07-06, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)

Some thoughts:

JPM doesn't quite work with undead fluffwise. The reincarnation-bound fluff of them (crunch, seeing the time limit to be resurrected as one) doesn't quite jive with undeath, and their signature ability actually made me a bit worried it'd resurrect the characters (it doesn't but I guess that speaks to how i see the fluff of it). Sadly it is the only initiator-wizard theurge so necessity wins this time, but I still don't quite like it.
The duskblade is just disappointing for a Lich. Lich evokes broad mastery of schools of magic, utter arcane power... the duskblade is too mediocre, magically speaking, to fulfill that vision for me.

Judging:
Guvikoth Kanon'ethni

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Power: 4
This seems like a particularly combat heavy build. A front liner that can hit hard. Seems not to benefit at all from being undead, in all honesty.
Elegance: 4.5
Attacking with touch spells at range thing is golden; love it.
Flavor: 3
Its undead, so what? The idea of tossing enchantments through weapons is pretty cool; plus using maneuvers at a range is awesome.
Citing Sources: 4

Where is Kn. Tactics from?
Martial throw doesn't allow treating thrown weapons as melee. That is Thunderous Throw.
Is it spells per day or spells known?

Keldath, Warden of the Restless Dead

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Power:4
A fairly versatile character with decent bab and spell repertoire.I would care to see more of the spells used, but its (potentially) pretty good. A very magic oriented build. It loses points for not having a sample spell loadout. As with casters, loadout is the key to their power
Elegance: 3.9
Its a dwarf to go for the rune caster PRC but the PRC is barely used and not really worked upon.
Flavor: 3.5
So its billed as a very dwarfy wardeny type. Not seeing it much. I do like the interaction of the classes' abilites; especially the idea that it is a reassembling undead guardian.

Lowe Miedaehl

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Power: 3
It's a bard. Its a bard that if for some reason not around people, goes hungry. Respectable social modifiers for what its worth. Not combat power per se but respectable. Cha to attack and damage is a saving grace to it
Elegance: 5
It sticks to the bard shtick and goes with it the whole way. Not much multiclassing, pretty lean and tight. It is elegant just ... well, see below
Flavor: 2.2
Being undead's kinda just a footnote with this guy. Sure its cute they can seduce and chomp on their target but... where is the follow up to that. What instrument does this fella play? Bonus for an unusual undead choice... but where's the meat here?
Citing Sources: 0.5
There is the dragon magazine reference for one of their feats

Avalon the Fallen General

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Power: 3.9
BAB is a mite low, but your CL is okay. It would be nice to see which skills are had.
Elegance: 4.5
Its a focused build, with an interesting c. But it fails to make use of being a lich. As such it suffers in this category.
Flavor: 4.3
A Lich! I like it; though Archlich might have fit better. My first impression was higher than the final rating but there was some poor aftertaste. I find the disconect between backstory, concept and abilities a bit odd (runaway paladin, for one, feels like a fall by concientiously forsaking oaths; also unmotivated paladin is peculiar to me; furthermore runaway paladin + the notion of a "fallen general" makes the whole inspiring grounded leader intent a bit... implausible?).

King Desmond Blackwing

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Power: 4.3
Less versatile but the minionmancy is worth a fair something. Your spell selection is tailored to benefit you.
Elegance: 5
Its straightforward. It emphasises marshalling army and leading a dreadful charge.
Flavor: 4.2
As mentioned above JPM doesn't quite work flavorwise with undead characters; especially ones so detached or causeless as Desmond. However Desmond feels very much evil overlord. A bit cuckoo in the head, but that works as a BBEG.

Aerestaer the Wind of Death

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Power: 4.5
You're big, cold and mean. Pretty powerful punches, lotsa abilities and magic that's okay I guess. You got options
Elegance:4.9
Taking advantage of your undeath to boost your attacks is cool. Furthermore actually going into a true dragon's corpse. That's some Fiendish Dire Donkey stuff! Very few classes and straightforward, crusader complements blackguard. That doesn't stop the crusader and blackguard additions to feel superfluous. Probably because they're such a short dip at the very end: Crusader in particular
Flavor: 5
Dracolich, good story. Levels all work. I like it

Personal Build Ideas:

Archivist worshiping Atropus + Alternate Spell Source, or sticking to archivist as divine casting can be done in armor.
Possibly trying out Suel Lich or Walker in the Waste for Dry Lich.

**OMG PONIES** · 2013-07-06, 06:53 AM (ISO 8601)

Thanks for posting judging already, VKnight and Guidarci! A quick question for Guidarci: on all but two of your comments, there's nothing about source citation. I'm compiling average scores, and it makes it a little tricky. Should I assume absence of comments = 0, or is this something you're filling in later?

**Piggy Knowles** · 2013-07-06, 07:54 AM (ISO 8601)

My plan had been an Ex-Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Horned Harbinger 7, with the standard lich template (reduced to +2 per contest rules).

The general idea would have been to use Blade of Pain and Fear + Death Devotion + Fell Drain to drain multiple levels and cause fear effects whenever he would whack enemies with his weapon. He'd have +16 BAB despite the level adjustment, able to animate dead from range without paying ANY material components, the ability to control 5*(7+Cha) undead (and being Cha-focused, that would have been a huge number), and even a component-free create undead once per day.

Thematically he would be a pretty standard trope: fallen paladin turned to death knight, riding into battle on his fiendish servant, wielding a dark blade powered by undeath, with a crown of bones (that also deals double damage on a charge, for Shock Trooper fun).

I was having a little trouble with feats (I wanted to be self-sufficient, but needed both Practiced Spellcaster and Craft Wondrous Item to perform the lich ritual myself, but those didn't really fit with everything else I wanted to do), and I didn't really have time to get a write-up together, so I decided not to enter.

**Kazyan** · 2013-07-06, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)

Neat.

I was thinking of an Evolved Necropolitan Gold Dwarf Binder 1/Stalwart Sorcerer 4/Runsmith 3/Anima Mage 10/Runesmith +2. Use Vestige Metamagic to persist Divine Power (acquired through Arcane Disciple), Wraithstrike, and Glorious Master of the Elements, so that you can smash and blast all day. Magic Jar into a Gated-in Drowned for ludicrous HP, thanks to it Unholy Toughness, and use the Magic Jar as your "phylactery". Be superglued to Savnok to qualify for Runesmith, and at 18th level, Zceryll access or whatever.

**Deadline** · 2013-07-06, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)

Some thoughts from the contestant angle for Vknight and the future of this competition.

You shouldn't bother to have a Sources category if it is 0 or 5. Just make it a requirement for valid builds and be done with it. It is otherwise pointless (assuming that the only valid scores are 0 or 5). Also, according to the very brief blurbs about the categories, you are double penalizing builds for not citing their sources (Elegance and Sources). Given that, the sources category could be eliminated entirely, since Elegance already covers it.
Vknight, your scoring seems capricious and arbitrary. Absent any feedback (which is what I find the most useful from the Iron Chef competition), there's nothing of benefit there (and at least for me, no reason to compete). At least guicari made an effort to explain his judgings (which was somewhat helpful, thanks guicari). Taking the time to explain why you scored each entry the way you did would be helpful to the chefs, helpful to you, and helpful to future judges and chefs. After all, a trophy in one of these competitions doesn't mean much if it seems like the judging is accomplished via magic 8-ball (I'm not saying it was, but if I can't agree with the way you scored any contestants, and you didn't include any reasoning, I'm left to simply guess at your criteria/process).
Absent any criteria, I cannot see how the judges came to their decisions on Power for any of the entries. Seriously, the scoring in that category seems wildly random, even within a single judges scores. I understand that such things will mature and come together as the contest grows, but take advantage of the groundwork laid by the other competitions and don't re-invent the wheel.

There are some great entries here folks, and I feel bad for doing as well as I did with my 10 minute tossed together entry (I did one thing quite intentionally, because I wanted to see how the judges handled it) - some of these look really well thought out. Good luck to the eventual winner!

**Macabaret** · 2013-07-06, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)

I was having trouble with this because I've always played my undead characters as the-guy-behind-the-lines, hiding behind literal meat-shields and trying to rule the world from a bunker somewhere. It took awhile for me to shift thinking to a front-line undead.

Once I did, I was trying to squeeze together a Half-Ogre Psy-warrior with 5 levels in War Mind and the Illithid Extraction feat chain. Tack on the Mummified Creature template. Four tentacles dealing int damage (when fully grappled), str damage (through Strength of My Enemy), and causing Mummy Rot (for con and cha damage). And, as a War Mind, hitting multiple enemies with each smack. It seemed like it would be a spooky build, but I just didn't have the inspiration soon enough to leave me with the time to build it.

**WhamBamSam** · 2013-07-06, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Deadline

Some thoughts from the contestant angle for Vknight and the future of this competition.

You shouldn't bother to have a Sources category if it is 0 or 5. Just make it a requirement for valid builds and be done with it. It is otherwise pointless (assuming that the only valid scores are 0 or 5). Also, according to the very brief blurbs about the categories, you are double penalizing builds for not citing their sources (Elegance and Sources). Given that, the sources category could be eliminated entirely, since Elegance already covers it.
Vknight, your scoring seems capricious and arbitrary. Absent any feedback (which is what I find the most useful from the Iron Chef competition), there's nothing of benefit there (and at least for me, no reason to compete). At least guicari made an effort to explain his judgings (which was somewhat helpful, thanks guicari). Taking the time to explain why you scored each entry the way you did would be helpful to the chefs, helpful to you, and helpful to future judges and chefs. After all, a trophy in one of these competitions doesn't mean much if it seems like the judging is accomplished via magic 8-ball (I'm not saying it was, but if I can't agree with the way you scored any contestants, and you didn't include any reasoning, I'm left to simply guess at your criteria/process).
Absent any criteria, I cannot see how the judges came to their decisions on Power for any of the entries. Seriously, the scoring in that category seems wildly random, even within a single judges scores. I understand that such things will mature and come together as the contest grows, but take advantage of the groundwork laid by the other competitions and don't re-invent the wheel.

There are some great entries here folks, and I feel bad for doing as well as I did with my 10 minute tossed together entry (I did one thing quite intentionally, because I wanted to see how the judges handled it) - some of these look really well thought out. Good luck to the eventual winner!

I'll second all of those recommendations. I'd be very interested to read over his thought process in more detail, especially as my build also wildly outperformed my expectations.

**Vknight** · 2013-07-06, 03:10 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by WhamBamSam

I'll second all of those recommendations. I'd be very interested to read over his thought process in more detail, especially as my build also wildly outperformed my expectations.

Huh, it didn't post that I'd give my reasoning's today cause I was tired and needed to sleep.

Removing Site Sources from the points(Not going to go back and edit it out), but the next challenge won't include it, except that it would be beneficial to have sited sources so the judges may look at the work in question. I'll not count site sources towards the end results so other judges ignore it

As for Power
Guvikoth: He plays well fulfills his niche and can hurt enemies with his powerful throws. His magic boosts that further and his ability to have his weapon(whoever that may be), return lets him produce a powerful full attack.

Keldath: He is a interesting and pretty darn powerful with his magical arsenal. And feels similar to Guvikoth, rather then focusing upon the physical but the magical

Lowe: I feel is lacking in anything super powerful, outside of his social capabilities

Avalon: Fulfills the idea of a undead commander. He's strong effective, can boost his troops and can mix it in melee or magic at a effective level. He does not have amazing power magical or physical but is still a major threat in both fields.

Desmond: I see Desmond as everything Keldath is but better. I could go into all the details but that is the simplest way to describe it.

Aerestar: Is, along with powerful magic, a Dracolich a competent melee build and extremely hard to kill. He can mix that magic and melee into a spinning, swirling swinging chain of death. Dancing across the battlefield

----------------------------------

Elegance:
Penalized-To many 1 or 2 level dips
Bonus-5 or more levels in a class
Bonus-Completing a Class
Bonus-Finishing a Prestige Class
Penalized-The Undead Trait feeling added on
Penalize-Class that did not seem to fit the build or was added randomly into the progression of another class, especially a prestige class.

----------------------------------

Flavor
This one is simple. Good Story benefits, no Story you don't take negatives
Build Breakdown Benefits, no High Point for the build less benefits.
No Build Breakdown penalties

Actually sorry. Desmond should have 4.25 on Flavor, let me go fix that

------------------------------------

Power I think will fluctuate a tad on these builds which can include things from the Duskblade too a Runesmith Wizard.
But I agree non-the-less it will probably even out over the next few challenges so bare with me please.
I also think on challenges with a more centralized idea then undead caster in armor will get better results on the power curve.
Such as a challenge focused on making a Half-Fiendish, Master Swordsman(Note to self don't make that next challenge like you had planned to)

I think Flavor will be a bit inconsistent but stay the same.

I think there should be some minor reward for citing sources any ideas. Also this is the first challenge I did not expect it to not be bumpy.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone.

**Amidus Drexel** · 2013-07-06, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)

Some rather interesting builds. Mine was going to be a lich Bard 6/Assassin 7/Sublime Chord 2/Arcane Trickster 3, taking lich off of assassin with practiced spellcaster. I hacked medium armor onto it with Battle Caster. *shrug*

**Gildedragon** · 2013-07-06, 03:27 PM (ISO 8601)

Interesting. I find that while Desmond has more power than Keldath, it is not nearly as big a discrepancy. Keldath's spell possibilities are far vaster.
With the right spell loadout Keldath's power can be 5 or close, with greater adaptability. Desmond on the other hand has a very limited repertoire of spells, but manages to make the best of them by focusing on minionmancy.

I discuss those two because their builds struck me as very similar in some ways

**Vknight** · 2013-07-06, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)

I agree, with the right load-out Keldath shoots from 3.75 right up to 4.75-5 area.

In a straight what do we have here look though. Desmond is more reliable, harder to kill, and can with a reliable method create powerful spawn to serve him. And said spawn are extremely hard to hill, along with being immune to his death burst.

I see it this way.
Alone Keldath does his best. In a group they would be a hindarance
Alone Desmond does well and can replenish his ranks with a kill or two. In a group his minions actively make him better.

Frankly I debated along time between 3.75 and 4 for Keldath and still am debating on that.

**Deadline** · 2013-07-06, 05:02 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Vknight

Removing Site Sources from the points(Not going to go back and edit it out), but the next challenge won't include it, except that it would be beneficial to have sited sources so the judges may look at the work in question. I'll not count site sources towards the end results so other judges ignore it

Don't get me wrong, I think that because it was listed, you should include it this time around. I'm simply saying that for future competitions, you should consider making it a requirement for valid builds, as the 0 or 5 nature of it means that is what it is anyway (anyone getting a 0 in it is knocked out of the running, so you might as well save your judges some time). Or, just eliminate it as a category entirely.

That said, you already include it as part of Elegance, so you already have a place to reward or penalize builds that cite their sources.

Seeing the reasoning behind why the judges scored the way they did is useful to the dispute process, and is, for most contestants, the only reward they get for participating. It allows judges to avoid appearing arbitrary, and it allows chefs to improve for future competitions.

Basically, the judgings in the Iron Chef competition are wonderful to read because they show that the judge spent at least as much time on the judgings as a contest would spend cooking. You'll see a few disputes crop up because of misunderstandings, but for the most part it's very smooth. With these judgings, while there are justifications, they are very sparse, and I find myself wanting to initiate disputes on behalf of other dishes.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I'm grateful that we've had at least two judgings, and want to give the judges credit, because as I recently found out in the latest Iron Chef round, it is very hard. My comments here are strictly in an effort to see to it that Scrap Iron Chef grows into something excellent. The early Iron Chef rounds had the same issues when it came to judging, which is what I was referring to with the "don't reinvent the wheel" comment.

My only real recommendation for future competitions would be to remove Tier 1 classes from the list of allowable ingredients in some way (perhaps just state that any use of Tier 1 classes results in an Elegance or Flavor penalty? I don't really have a good suggestion for this.). This isn't an issue in Iron Chef, because the focus is on an awful Prestige Class, but here, it will be problematic mainly because a Tier 1 caster can, with minimal preparation, do everything better than any more focused build (and if it wants to be lazy, it can just play GOD to make the party do all the work better than they would be able to otherwise. Tier 1s are just plain better, whether solo or in a group). For example, Keldath and Avalon can both cast 8th level Wizard spells and have great BAB. Any argument that either of those builds is less powerful than the others is ... odd. Desmond is another solid powerhouse, but the rather awful Dread Necromancer list is at least somewhat detrimental. That's just one example that I see.

At any rate, I'm not going to run any disputes past you this round, mainly because all I can really say in two of the categories is "Well, I disagree with your number, but without knowing how you got to it, I can't really tell you why." I entered this first round mainly because I wanted to see how scoring would shake out, and because I really didn't have time for a proper entry (honestly, if it turns out that I somehow wind up in the running for a trophy, I'd like to point out to the chairman that my build is invalid

[and it's not the only one]).

**Kuulvheysoon** · 2013-07-06, 05:25 PM (ISO 8601)

Heh. I should have entered my Drow Judicator from ICOC into this for laughs. Necropolitan Lesser Drow that gets 4th level spells from Pious Templar.

Actually, I'm surprised/disappointed to see a lack of Ur-priest here.

**Gildedragon** · 2013-07-06, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)

You're kidding deadline... Damn I hope you are. I thought I'd been pretty good in the reading through the entries and builds. Damnit! I'm gonna have to go through them all again.

**Vknight** · 2013-07-06, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)

I did give how I graded. And I agree things should get better they start out a bit rocky even if people did copy Iron Chef. I think part of it will come from how

I may very well say. Max Elegance and Flavor is 3 if you use a Tier 1 Class, for all further competitions

Also I feel its not fair to say I don't like how a judge graded me. The judge spends time working out how he views each and every build. And I think it's up to each judge if they want to say how they graded each build.
Disputing a grade seems like bad sportsmanship.
But that is my personal take on the matter of judges and explaining why. Though I can understand why people would want it.

Deadline is refering to how Warblade only has medium armor
And Runesmith for some reason needs Heavy Armor Proficiency. This can be fixed with a flaw and/or different feat; or being a Crusader

I'm not sure about any other build.

**WhamBamSam** · 2013-07-06, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon

Heh. I should have entered my Drow Judicator from ICOC into this for laughs. Necropolitan Lesser Drow that gets 4th level spells from Pious Templar.

Actually, I'm surprised/disappointed to see a lack of Ur-priest here.

I considered an Ur Priest build, but ultimately realized that one of the challenge parameters was holding it back. Discussing it in too much detail would make it easy to guess which of the builds is mine, but I'll discuss it after all the chefs are revealed.

**Deadline** · 2013-07-06, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)

I'm not picking on you Vknight, I'm trying to provide thoughts that may improve Scrap Iron Chef for future competitions. I see that you did post some explanations. They are very brief, but at least give some insight into why you scored the way you did.

Originally Posted by Vknight

Also I feel its not fair to say I don't like how a judge graded me. The judge spends time working out how he views each and every build. And I think it's up to each judge if they want to say how they graded each build.
Disputing a grade seems like bad sportsmanship.
But that is my personal take on the matter of judges and explaining why. Though I can understand why people would want it.

You ... don't have a dispute process? What happens when a judge scores someone low because the judge doesn't understand something or missed something? And for an example of how it works from a sportsmanship perspective, check out the Iron Chef or Zinc Saucier competitions. Basically, it's as far from bad sportsmanship as you could imagine. What you describe (just not liking the judges scores) isn't what the dispute process is about.

I will take a moment to say that in my opinion, any judge who refuses to admit they made a mistake, or listen to differing opinions, is unworthy of the title.

Originally Posted by Vknight

Deadline is refering to how Warblade only has medium armor
And Runesmith for some reason needs Heavy Armor Proficiency. This can be fixed with a flaw and/or different feat; or being a Crusader

Well, I was trying to keep my build anonymous until the reveal (isn't that a rule?), but ok. It also suffers the xp penalty for disparate levels in classes that aren't a favored class (Dwarf favored class is fighter - the build works fine with a single fighter level and a few different feats).

It seems like I've hurt your feelings Vknight, which wasn't my intent. If I'm mistaken and you are interested in feedback, I'd be happy to provide more via PM if you'd like.

Either way, I'll go ahead and bow out of this thread so that the builds with issues I spotted still have a shot.

Good luck chefs!

**Gildedragon** · 2013-07-06, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)

I would disagree with tier 1s penalizing elegance that much and flavor at all.
For certain things a tier 1 has the best fluff and fit, and using anything else would work less than well.

Pelordangit! It does indeed not qualify. I've gotten too used to the Warblade = Fighter schtick I assumed the HAP. And it was a build I liked. Question though: why toss in an illegal build?
Seeing that I'd drop the elegance of it to 0...

**Vknight** · 2013-07-06, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)

I know your not.
I am brief because how I think, I've found when I describe my thought process it only makes sense to me.

If the contestants & judges are ok with it then they can. As long as the dispute process is not used to because a person does not like a judges score.
My scores are not changing unless I think they have reason to be(I.E someone brings a good enough point).

If a judge is confused about a build they can say so.
Or if a contestant is worried the build may be confusing they can explain it.
Which would also help the process.

Yeah if you want you can PM me about things. Including the other builds.
You did not hurt me feelings.
Also I never said whose build the Warblade belonged too I simply pointed out that Warblade has medium armor and Runesmith needs Heavy. You did that yourself, Deadline as that could have been me pointing out someone else's build does not meet requirements and not yours(as you did mention not all builds worked, and I never said whose build it was).

Also on the note of XP Penalty for Disparate Class Levels. (1)Its an XP penalty you can still reach 20th. (2) Who plays with that rule. (3) Its a stupid rule which interferes with ideas so no point to include it

**Deadline** · 2013-07-06, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Guigarci

Pelordangit! It does indeed not qualify. I've gotten too used to the Warblade = Fighter schtick I assumed the HAP. And it was a build I liked. Question though: why toss in an illegal build?
Seeing that I'd drop the elegance of it to 0...

Oh, I didn't purposefully toss in an illegal build. I purposefully didn't include my sources. I didn't have a lot of time for my entry, and was mostly curious how the scoring would work (and I didn't want to be responsible for shunting someone's hard worked entry with my half-baked entry). I didn't see the illegal build thing until after.

Originally Posted by Vknight

Also on the note of XP Penalty for Disparate Class Levels. (1)Its an XP penalty you can still reach 20th. (2) Who plays with that rule. (3) Its a stupid rule which interferes with ideas so no point to include it

You may want to point that out in your OP for future contests.

The bit about restricting Tier 1s is that mostly I'm worried you'll see nothing but Tier 1 submissions eventually, no matter what concept you put out there.

Anyway, we've taken this to PM for further discussion, so I'll cover anything else there.

Thanks again to my fellow chefs, and to Vknight and Guigarci for judging.

**kulosle** · 2013-07-07, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)

hey sorry guys RL problems. I have some of my scores decided and written out already but i have to go to bed. I'll post all of them in the morning.

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