30+ New Dragons (more true dragons than the draconomicon)

[Zaydos]

I've always been kind of interested in the Epic Time Dragon they featured in the last Dragon Magazine before they stopped printing it. Maybe we could do something along the lines of a 'Space' Dragon to compliment it. [Insert Palkia and Dialga pokemon jokes here]

I don't have that Dragon Magazine... and now I want... and the Space Dragon would obviously have to be better Dialga is way cooler than Palkia

Also if we are going to be having Abyssal Dragons, wouldn't it make sense to add more Celestial ones as well?

I agree there but I think I'm going to finish at least a few of the Baatorian ones first; on that note if we're making ones for the Lords of 9 we ought to make some for the Demon Lords of the Abyss.

Lastly I've been interested in making a pseudo-Tiamat like dragon that is mortal.

It would have to be stronger than a red dragon, so probably an epic dragon but then you'd just stat out Tiamat - Divine Ranks... hmm... I love the idea/concept but it'll take some time to figure out how best to handle it.

Do you want them epic or non-epic? Casters or non-casters?

[un_known]

Zaydos think of the ArchDevils using the greayt wyrms and such as extremely powerful 'allies'.

How I'd view this is that say Asmodeus was goign to war he would entreat his Dragonkind to come with him so that they might revel in the blood and carnage. Make their personality types almost completely compatible with the ArchDevils that have been with them for so very long....



And yes we should do some dragons for the Abyssal Layers as well; but maybe we'd focus more on ones that exist in the more powerful areas like where Demogorgon and the other Demon Lords are and such...

I would love to see what you came up for the Dragon with Juiblex or Zuggtmoy.

[Tacitus]

I'd suggest using an Aspect of Tiamat as a base for that purpose, which I recall being printed in an adventure module (lol, spoilers) but I can't recall if it was reproduced elsewhere.

Spoiler

Show

Red Hand of Doom

[Noxsis]

i second the space dragon. i really like the time dragon in dragon 359 it was the most powerful dragon i had ever seen with a cr of 26 as a wyrmling and 90 as a great wyrm its so cool

[Debihuman]

Your Fog and Palladium Dragons are missing the DC from their respective breath weapon in their charts.


Debby

[Zaydos]

@un_known: No matter how compatible their personalities they'd want to be top dog; and excempting Asmodeus great wyrms are as powerful as archfiends. It's not really a new problem, though, why doesn't a great wyrm dragon take over Baator already? Narrativium; this just put it into greater highlight.

The real question, though, is when using them alongside an archfiend. You wouldn't want them stronger than the fiend. Then again who uses archfiends straight from the book? I'll just go crazy and assume that if people want their archfiends to be stronger they'll use one of the stronger representations made in several other sources

Also the fungal dragon could be refluffed to work for Zuggtmoy; change its alignment to CE and make the myconids it creates fiendish. Juiblex will be fun.

@Tacitus: Did not know that. There is a CR 13 version in the web enhancement for FCII, a CR 10 version is on page 54 of the Miniature's Handbook, and another (weaker at a glance) CR 13 version in Dragon Magic on page 110. So what CR is the one from the module?

@Noxsis: It sounds real neat but until I can get that dragon magazine it's a no go

@Debihuman: Thanks for the catch. Fixed fog dragons, and Palladium dragons still lack a damage listing because they don't have a damaging breath (only a save or lose like silvers).

[Noxsis]

since it unlikly that you will find a real copy anytime soon i suggest you download a pdf of the it. it was the only way i could get some of the older one that had long been out of print try google it theres a lot of listing for downloading it

[un_known]

Yeah when I use ArchDevils they are usually a lot more powerful then in the books. Mainly just homebrew them and give them abilities that make them feared by gods even more-so.

So when you get to Juiblex (After finishing the Nine) you'll refluff the Fungal with some changes to it for that dragon? As I can see other changes being made to make it rather different.

Can't wait...

[Tacitus]

Again, possible spoilers about RHoD so a courtesy:

Spoiler

Show

As it was intended to be the real end boss of the module I'm assuming CR 13, but I don't have the actual module, just the knowledge that a level 11 Clericzilla fully buffed and a badass bard with master thrower (with like 3-4 other useless PCs) thrown in somewhere can make delicious murdering of it.

[The-Mage-King]

@Tacitus: Did not know that. There is a CR 13 version in the web enhancement for FCII, a CR 10 version is on page 54 of the Miniature's Handbook, and another (weaker at a glance) CR 13 version in Dragon Magic on page 110. So what CR is the one from the module?

Spoiler

Show

13, actually. I think its the same as the Dragon Magic one, as well...

[firemagehao]

If you have a lot of time you could make a dragon for every original 666 layers of the Abyss.

[Debihuman]

One more thing: The Eclipse dragon's Frightful Presence lines are empty.

The text could use a little proofreading and editing. Hornlet isn't a real word and it should be "series" not serious.

For firemagehao, Why would each layer of the Abyss be home to a species of Dragon?

[Zaydos]

I agree the text could use more proofreading... I'm quite bad at proofing my own (or others) work. I was on a creative binge when I started this and just wanted to make something, anything, and I saw my notes on Ebony Dragons and finished them, then decided that I'd make firemagehao's request and... things snowballed.

As for hornlet I actually do know it's not a word, but tell that to the people who wrote the Draconomicon fluff; they describe red dragons as having hornlets so I went with that.

And again thanks. I'll fix the table and the typo.

I especially need to be more careful about double checking my tables; most of the errors have been simple copy-paste mistakes. At this point I have a basic table typed out and when I remove a row or add one things get ugly sometimes.

[flabort]

Meh. That's why you've got readers, fans, and PEACHers, willing to catch any mistakes you make at a moments notice, helping you stand out from the crowd, Inspiring you to work harder.

For some reason, I seem to recall a quote like that from a movie...
Nope. can't remember.

Anyways, just because you have a problem or mistake, doesn't mean you've messed up. Just that you can come back and fix it.

[Zaydos]

Oh I know making a mistake isn't the end of the world; I do feel that grammar isn't what I should need PEACHers for, especially since it's mostly a thing of not wanting to go back over the ground I already have.

On that note, though, flabort I have to congratulate you. Your reversing the normal "evil ritual experiments on good dragons" led to the destruction of the greatest human kingdom the world had ever known in the PbP I'm starting to test/use/kill these dragons; and the only known variety of good aligned dragons.

[Silverscale]

You mentioned somewhere that you might do a Metal Dragon so that there are one for each of the Chinese Elements....I want to see a set of 5 Dragons.... that don't necessarily need to be Lung's, that each correspond to one of the Chinese Elements.... actually on second thought they would probably have to be some variation on Lung Dragons....anyway that would be a cool thing to see.

[Zaydos]

You mentioned somewhere that you might do a Metal Dragon so that there are one for each of the Chinese Elements....I want to see a set of 5 Dragons.... that don't necessarily need to be Lung's, that each correspond to one of the Chinese Elements.... actually on second thought they would probably have to be some variation on Lung Dragons....anyway that would be a cool thing to see.

Added to the queue and marked which dragon is currently in the works. Will have to look over lung dragons; especially what goodies they get for being lung dragons; it's been a while (last time I used a lung dragon it was a CR 18 one with a ghost dragon template on it... it was almost a TPK after I fudged the dice, and secretly nerfed it mid fight).

[Zaydos]

Nessian Dragon
Dragon (Evil, Lawful)
Environment: Nessus (the 9 hells)
Organization: wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2–5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary.
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 2; very young 4; young 6; juvenile 8; young adult 11; adult 13; mature adult 16; old 18; very old 20; ancient 22; wyrm 23; great wyrm 24
Treasure: Triple Standard
Alignment: Always LE


The smallest of the Baatorian dragons, the Nessian Dragon relies on its mental powers as opposed to physical might when participating in combat. They are consummate masters of shadow magic, as well as adept at enchantments and illusions. Nessian dragons can often be seen in the retinues of powerful pit fiends, and wyrmlings are sometimes granted to arcanists as familiars to tempt and lure them into deeper evils.

Nessian dragons prefer to avoid direct confrontation, striking from hiding if at all. They’d much rather use manipulation, guile, and trickery to make their enemies fight each other. Nessian dragons rarely interact with each other, for once they reach the height of their powers they fear only their own kin and the master of the Layer himself. Once, or at most three times, in their life a nessian dragon will get the urge to go forth and seek companionship of its own kind. When they cannot find it, you now know the source of the half-dragon imps sometimes joked about in Sigil’s Leaky Tankard tavern.

For that matter there is nessian dragons’ connection with imps. Some berks will rattle their boneboxes about what they get up to together, but dark of the matter is there’s something else there. Nessian dragons seem to be able to control the little devils, take over their minds and make them do what they want. Some bloods returning from the War have even told of groups of imps led by a single member with great magical powers, at first it seemed like an imp that had dabbled in illusions till it revealed it true form as one of these monsters. Some balmies even hint that these dragons have a way to fool true seeing but that just goes to show how unreliable the chant can be.

Nessian dragons have light violet scales throughout their lives. As they age specks of red, and green emerge across their body, and so that at great wyrm they’re only about half violet. Nessian dragons have smooth, clean features, narrow, pointed heads, and elegant, beautiful wings that seem made of ne piece of flexible metal. When a nessian dragon hits maturity (young adult), its scales split in several places, marring this beauty of form, a sign of the race’s ancient pact with Asmodeus and their eternal subjugation.

Age	Size	Hit Dice	Str	Dex	Con	Int	Wis	Cha	BAB/Grp	Atk	Fort	Ref	Will	Breath Weapon Damage	Breath Weapon DC	Frightful Presence
Wyrmling	D	2d12+2 (15 hp)	7	14	11	16	13	16	2/-12	4	3	5	4	1d3	11	-
Very Young	T	5d12+5 (37 hp)	9	14	13	18	15	18	5/-4	6	5	6	6	1d4	13	-
Young	S	8d12+16 (68 hp)	11	14	13	20	17	20	8/4	9	6	7	9	1d6	15	-
Juvenile	S	11d12 + 22 (93 hp)	13	14	15	20	17	20	11/7	13	9	9	10	1d8	17	-
Young Adult	M	14d12+42 (133 hp)	13	14	15	22	19	22	14/15	15	11	11	13	1d10	19	23
Adult	M	17d12+68 (178 hp)	15	14	17	24	21	24	17/19	19	13	12	15	1d10+1	21	25
Mature Adult	M	20d12+100 (230 hp)	17	14	19	26	21	26	20/23	23	16	14	17	1d10+2	24	28
Old	L	23d12+115 (264 hp)	19	14	21	28	23	28	23/31	26	18	15	19	1d10+3	26	30
Very Old	L	26d12+156 (325 hp)	19	14	21	30	23	30	26/34	29	20	17	21	1d10+4	28	33
Ancient	L	29d12+174 (362 hp)	21	14	23	32	25	32	29/37	32	22	18	23	1d10+5	30	35
Wyrm	H	32d12+224 (432hp)	23	14	23	34	27	34	32/45	35	24	20	26	1d10+6	32	38
Great Wyrm	H	35d12+280 (507 hp)	25	14	25	36	29	36	35/49	39	26	21	28	1d10+7	34	40

Age	Speed	Init	AC	Special Abilities	SR	Shadowcasting Level	Arcane CL
Wyrmling	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	16 (+4 size, +2 Dex)	Immunity to Fire and Poison; Resistance 10 to Cold, and Acid; See in Darkness	-	1st	-
Very Young	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	17 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural)	Alternate Form	-	3rd	1st
Young	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	19 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural)	Improved Imp Shape	-	5th	2nd
Juvenile	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	22 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +9 natural)	Charming Whispers	-	7th	4th
Young Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	24 (+2 Dex, +12 natural)	DR 5/good or silver	16	9th	5th
Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	27 (+2 Dex, +15 natural)	Circle of Evil's Power, Control Imps	18	11th	7th
Mature Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	30 (+2 Dex, +18 natural)	DR 10/good or silver	21	13th	9th
Old	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	32 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +21 natural)	Dominate Person	24	15th	11th
Very Old	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	35 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +24 natural)	DR 15/good or silver	26	17th	13th
Ancient	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	38 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +27 natural)	Interplanar Vision	28	19th	15th
Wyrm	60-ft, fly 200-ft (poor)	+2	40 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +30 natural)	DR 20/good or silver	29	20th	17th
Great Wyrm	60-ft, fly 200-ft (poor)	+2	43 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +33 natural)	Ultimate Mask	30	20th	19th

Special Abilities

Breath Weapon: A nessian dragon has a single breath weapon a line of hellish red light. This cone gives all creatures within it a penalty to their Intelligence and Wisdom equal to the number indicated above, with a Will save allowed to half the penalty. This penalty lasts 10 minutes per age category of the nessian dragon and cannot reduce an ability score below 3.

Spells: A nessian dragon learns spells as a sorcerer of the listed level. These spells may be drawn from Sor/Wiz Illusion and Enchantment spells, and the Evil, Law, and Diabolic Domains. They may also choose spells from the Sor/Wiz list that are Divination, Evocation, or have the Polymorph subschool but these spells are considered to be 1 spell levels higher for the nessian dragon (so Polymorph would be a 5th level spell unavailable to them till Old).

Alternate Form (Su): 3/day as a standard action a very young or older nessian dragon may assume the form of: 1 variety of medium or smaller humanoid (unique to each nessian dragon), a monstrous spider of up to medium-size, a raven, a rat, a boar, or an imp. The dragon may remain in this form indefinitely or until it chooses to return to its normal form.

Improved Imp Shape (Su): When a young or older nessian dragon uses its alternate form ability to take the shape of an imp it gains the imp’s spell-like abilities as long as it is in that form.

Charming Whispers (Su): If a juvenile or older nessian dragon talks with a creature for at least 1 minute that creature must make a Will save (DC 14 + the nessian dragon’s charisma modifier) or be charmed as per Charm Monster. Once active this effect may be dispelled as if it was a spell-like ability.

Circle of Evil’s Power (Su): An adult or older nessian dragon radiates an aura of evil power out to 10-ft per age category that suppresses all Protection from Evil, Magic Circle of Protection from Evil, Protection from Law, Magic Circle of Protection from Law, Holy Aura, Cloak of Chaos, Holy Word, and Word of Chaos spells within it.

Control Imps (Su): An adult or older nessian dragon may, 1/day, attempt to rebuke/command imps as an evil cleric does undead. The nessian dragon has an effective cleric level equal to its age category for this attempt.

Interplanar Gaze (Su): An ancient or older nessian dragon may observe any spot it is familiar with on any Lower Plane, or the Prime Material Plane, as if using Clairaudience/Clairvoyance with an unlimited and inter planar range at will. 3/day it may attempt to scry on a creature as Greater Scrying with a similar range the targets will save is modified as normal for Greater Scrying but the DC is equal to the dragon’s frightful presence DC.

Ultimate Mask (Su): A great wyrm nessian dragon is automatically able to sense when a creature is attempting to discern its alignment through magical means and can emulate any alignment for their effects. An unconscious nessian dragon’s alignment is instead undetectable by magical means. Also the original form of a great wyrm nessian dragon that is in another form is no longer revealed via True Seeing and they instead appear to be whatever form they have polymorphed/shapeshifted into.

Mysteries: A nessian dragon is born able to use the mysteries of shadow magic. Any nessian dragon may use mysteries as a shadowcaster of the listed level. They do not gain bonus feats for completing their paths.

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day Dominate Person (Old or Older)

Skills: Bluff, Disguise, and Perform are class skills for a Nessian Dragon.

[Zaydos]

Canian Dragon
Dragon (Evil, Lawful, Cold)
Environment: Cania (the 9 hells)
Organization: wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2–5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary or flight (2-5).
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 3; very young 5; young 7; juvenile 9; young adult 12; adult 15; mature adult 17; old 19; very old 20; ancient 22; wyrm 23; great wyrm 24
Treasure: Triple Standard
Alignment: Always LE

Canian dragons are soldiers, and warriors. Recruited eons ago from among Chromium dragons willing to align themselves with hell, Canian dragons are able to wield the awesome power of hellfire. Unlike the majority of the other Baatorian dragons, Canian dragons have no resistance to fire at birth, though as they grow they become ever more resilient and resistant to both its effects and those of hellfire. The Canian dragons traded more than they thought they were as the strains the hellfire placed on their bodies and souls stripped them of their magical powers and weakened their frames; exactly as Mephistopholes planned.

Canian dragons are fervently loyal to Mephisopholes, unable to even think of rebellion. Unfortunately this single minded fanaticism came at a cost and while highly intelligent canian dragons have difficulty with original thoughts and are prone to repetitive tactics both in battle and outside of it. Highly regimented, the canian dragons may form the core of an army Mephistopholes is carefully building; if the chant is true.

Canian dragons appear similar to Chromium Dragons. They have smooth and reflective faces and a series of long spines running from nose to the tip of their tails. Their wings are wide and sleek, and their entire form seems chiseled from blue ice. Their eyes are a bright orange-red, the color of the flames of hell building within them. They enjoy the ice of Cania, living on the fringes of that diabolic realm while waiting for their master’s call to arms. Canian dragons are wracked from within by the pain of the hellfire within them and adult canian dragons are known to waste their hellfire breath to just get it out of their body for a few moments.

Canian dragons; in the works.

Age	Size	Hit Dice	Str	Dex	Con	Int	Wis	Cha	BAB/Grp	Atk	Fort	Ref	Will	Breath Weapon: Breath Weapon DC	Frightful Presence
Wyrmling	S	6d12+6 (45 hp)	13	10	13	14	13	14	6/3	8	6	5	6	2d8	14	-
Very Young	M	9d12+18 (76 hp)	15	10	15	14	13	14	9/11	11	8	6	7	4d8	16	-
Young	M	12d12 + 24 (102 hp)	17	10	15	16	15	16	12/15	15	10	8	10	6d8	18	-
Juvenile	L	15d12+45 (142 hp)	19	10	17	18	17	18	15/23	18	12	9	12	8d8	20	-
Young Adult	L	18d12+72 (189 hp)	23	10	19	18	17	18	18/28	23	15	11	14	10d8	23	23
Adult	H	21d12+105 (241 hp)	27	10	21	20	19	20	21/37	27	17	12	16	12d8	25	25
Mature Adult	H	24d12+120 (276 hp)	29	10	21	20	19	20	24/41	31	19	14	18	14d8	27	27
Old	H	27d12+162 (337 hp)	31	10	23	22	21	22	27/45	35	21	15	20	16d8	29	29
Very Old	H	30d12+180 (375 hp)	33	10	23	22	21	22	30/49	39	23	17	22	18d8	31	31
Ancient	G	33d12+231 (445 hp)	35	10	25	24	23	24	33/57	41	25	18	24	20d8	33	33
Wyrm	G	36d12+288 (522 hp)	37	10	27	26	25	26	36/61	45	28	20	27	22d8	36	36
Great Wyrm	G	39d12+312 (565 hp)	39	10	27	26	25	26	39/65	49	29	21	28	24d8	37	37

Age	Speed	Init	AC	SR	Special Abilities
Wyrmling	40-ft, fly 100-ft (average), swim 20-ft	+0	14 (+1 size, +3 natural)	-	Immunity to Cold, Acid Resistance 10, Hellfire Resistance 10, Fire Vulnerability
Very Young	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	16 (+6 natural)	-	Fire Resistance 10
Young	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	19 (+9 natural)	-	Frozen Fangs, DR 5/good or silver, Hellfire Resistance 30
Juvenile	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	21 (-1 size, +12 natural)	-	Fire Resistance 20
Young Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	24 (-1 size, +15 natural)	16	DR 10/good or silver, Hellfire Immunity
Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	26 (-2 size, +18 natural)	18	Fire Resistance 30, Hellfire Breath
Mature Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	29 (-2 size, +21 natural)	19	DR 15/good or silver, Quickened Hellfire
Old	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	32 (-2 size, +24 natural)	21	Fire Immunity
Very Old	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), swim 20-ft	+0	35 (-2 size, +27 natural)	22	DR 20/good and silver
Ancient	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), swim 20-ft	+0	36 (-4 size, +30 natural)	24	Hellfire Cyclone
Wyrm	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), swim 20-ft	+0	39 (-4 size, +33 natural)	26	DR 20/good and silver and DR 5/chaos
Great Wyrm	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), swim 20-ft	+0	42 (-4 size, +36 natural)	29	Death Throes

Special Abilities

Breath Weapon (Su): A canian dragon has two breath weapons. The first is a line of solid ice dealing the listed cold damage (Reflex halves). The second is only available to Adult or older canian dragons and is a cone of hellfire dealing the listed damage.

Frozen Fangs (Su): Canian frost forms on a young or older canian dragon’s teeth. This hellish frost causes their bite attacks to deal an extra 1d10 cold damage per attack.

Hellfire Cyclone (Su): 1/day an ancient or older canian dragon may call forth a whirling force of hellfire within 30-ft. This ability lasts a number of rounds equal to the canian dragon’s constitution modifier, and deals 1 Con damage to the dragon per 2 rounds it was active when it ends. While their hellfire cyclone is active a canian dragon may not use their breath weapon. All creature within the area take 8d6 hellfire damage per round, and it is treated as having wind equivalent to a windstorm.

Death Throes (Su): When a great wyrm canian dragon dies its body explodes in a burst of hellfire dealing damage as if it had used its breath weapon within a 40-ft burst centered on its corpse. This destroys the body completely.

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day Quicked Hellfire.

[firemagehao]

For firemagehao, Why would each layer of the Abyss be home to a species of Dragon?

Each layer of the abyss might be home to a unique type of Dragon because a dragon would develope very specific traits in each layer, all of which are unique due to how chaotic the abyss is.

[Zaydos]

Each layer of the abyss might be home to a unique type of Dragon because a dragon would develope very specific traits in each layer, all of which are unique due to how chaotic the abyss is.

Well the official Abyss dragon from Dragon Magazine was said to be just one type; although personally I don't think every layer would have one. Just a (small) fraction. Then again at some point that becomes too many for anyone to make assuming the Abyss is infinite as they have trended more and more towards over the years (initially there just were so many layers, and they didn't go in a linear fashion so it was sometimes difficult to know if you were on a new layer, or some other layer) that's still infinite. Really by the end for most of the Abyss its easier to take other dragons and file off the name plates, or just use templates. Now for the demon lords and their layers, you can have more fun.

[flabort]

Well, I myself am impressed with how well you did it. I like what you did with that idea, and reward you with the closest thing to an internets I have on hand:

A cookie.

[hamishspence]

Maybe the Hellfire Wyrm could be redesigned as a planar dragon- aging from wyrmling to great wyrm?

Call it the Hellfire dragon, and, at wyrm age, it has roughly the same powers as an MM2 Hellfire Wyrm.

[Zaydos]

Well, I myself am impressed with how well you did it. I like what you did with that idea, and reward you with the closest thing to an internets I have on hand:

A cookie.

Thank you. -noms-

Maybe the Hellfire Wyrm could be redesigned as a planar dragon- aging from wyrmling to great wyrm?

Call it the Hellfire dragon, and, at wyrm age, it has roughly the same powers as an MM2 Hellfire Wyrm.

Well not quite what you were suggesting (I didn't reference hellfire wyrm while creating it), but Hellfire Dragon. I'll go ahead and link it and the other dragon on that thread here. It's a little specific to the campaign it was built for and that game's head LE deity but it should be easily refluffed.

[Debihuman]

The problem with having a dragon for every layer of the abyss is that it contradicts what is already known. I'm in favor of discounting canon, but not everyone would agree with me. Furthermore, coming up with 666 dragons would put a tremendous burden on our good author here as well. Not only that, but the dragons would have to be less important than the demons that rule those layers. It's demons that rule the abysss, not dragons after all.

I am in favor of seeing more templates used with creatures. I love the templates and they are woefully under used here (on this site).

You could apply the half-dragon template to any demon for Abyssal dragons. The template changes the creature's Type to Dragon. I'd hate to think with a half-dragon succubus would look like, but it's an option. To spice it up further, you could have a variety of evil anarchic dragons roaming the Abyss, using that template from Manual of the Planes. If you go back to the demons as a source, Jubelix could have a dragon with the Gelatinous Creature Template (from Savage Species) on his layer or a fiendish version of the same. Zuggtmoy could have a fungus dragon on hers, or a fiendish version of the same. That's just a few that I could think of that would be appropriate. I am sure there are many, many more.

Debby

P.S. just a cookie? Heck you deserve a whole box of cookies wrapped in bows and flowers!

[Zaydos]

P.S. just a cookie? Heck you deserve a whole box of cookies wrapped in bows and flowers!

Thanks

Also I have ran into a bit of a snag on 3 of the Baatorian dragons.

1. Glasya has been an archfiend for only a year canonically and her layer had a total redesign so she'd probably not have her own breed of dragons. I could completely throw out canon, but I was also thinking of basing them off Moloch. The problem is I don't know anything about Moloch so any information on him fluff or crunch would be useful (wiki says Dragon #75 which I have has him, and Dragon #360 and the [1e?] MMII have stats).
2. I'm contemplating the same with Bel; although I'm thinking less of the idea after a check to Wikipedia said he's (quickly) forging an alliance with Tiamat. Opinions on making it based off of Zariel instead of Bel?
   Edit: Looking through some old AD&D books; and Tiamat used to be listed as the ruler of Avernus in AD&D.
3. Dispater and Dis. The idea I keep coming back to is a dark dragon with rust breath... then I remember my favorite official dragon is Acheron's Rust Dragon, so if anybody has suggestions for a dragon for the 2nd layer please let me know.

Edit: Been finding stuff out about Moloch. Apparently he refused to yield to Asmodeus after the reckoning and therefore got banished. I'm thinking about having the dragons of the 6th still be loyal to the former arch-fiend and all but extinct following both the Reckoning and then the change of the plane that almost finished off their remaining numbers. Will look over the effects and abilities of Moloch some more (energy types, spells, etc) and make the dragons of the 7th first. Currently though I see them as red dragon sized and mostly physical without innate casting focusing instead on beating an enemy to a pulp.

[Debihuman]

Here's a way around Glasya: When she took over her realm, from the Hag Countess, all of the half-dragon hags would be forced to change alliances. If not, they'd be killed or cast out and forced to live elsewhere. Meanwhile, Glasya could could be experimenting with them to gain a dragon type more suitable to her tastes, particularly half-dragon erinyes.

Here's some info from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hag_Countess :

"After thousands of years of rule, the Hag Countess was deposed by Glasya, Asmodeus's daughter. As of Fiendish Codex II, in a process whose exact genesis is unclear (but seems to have been empowered by the slain essence of Geryon) the Hag Countess's body swelled enormously and split open to radically change the nature of the entire layer of Malbolge. Thus, the sixth plane of Baator is in fact nothing else than the Hag Countess's innards and bones. The Countess is technically dead, though her life essence still remains on Malbolge, and night hags, paeliryon devils, kalabon devils, and hell lice continually spawn from the enormous tumors in her changed flesh."

Edit:

As for Bel, he worked his way up from a lemure so he'd have many types of dragons at his disposal. Perhaps he favors the small and weak just to see how they can overcome their low origins as he did.

Edit 2: if you don't want to deal with half-dragons in the 9 Hells, you could simply have Parthenogenesis dragons (as befitting both the Hag Goddess and Glasya) as the dragons in Malbolge.

Debby

[Zaydos]

Maladominian Dragon
Dragon (Evil, Lawful)
Environment: Maladomini (the 9 hells)
Organization: wyrmling, very young, young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2–5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (2-5).
Challenge Rating: Wyrmling 4; very young 5; young 8; juvenile 11; young adult 13; adult 15; mature adult 17; old 19; very old 20; ancient 22; wyrm 23; great wyrm 25
Treasure: Triple Standard
Alignment: Always LE

Former radiant dragons who were loyal supporters of Triel before his fall from grace, these dragons fell with the archon and ended lumped with him in the 9 Hells. Until the reckoning the Maladominian dragons served as powerful supporters for Triel, this changed at the end of the Reckoning. Baalzebul, cursed into his disgusting slug-like form, could no longer stand the reminder of his lost perfection that existed in the form of young Maladominian dragon, nor the reflection of his own altered state found in the adults. He lashed out at them, ordered their nurseries ruined, and the eggs smashed. The eldest of the dragons fought against him in this and they died. The wisest stole eggs from the nurseries and hid beneath the streets of the cities of Maladomini, hiding there.

These dragons are now embittered against their former master and his allies and plot in secret beneath his domain, working towards his downfall and their revenge both for his betrayal and their race’s expulsion from Celestia. They are not alone in the lands beneath Maladomini, though, and even these dragons know fear of what lurks beside them.

Maladomini dragons at birth are covered in reflective golden scales. Their bodies are powerful, though not on par with gold or red dragons, and they bear a single golden horn upon their nose, although they do not normally use this horn for combat (it is a secondary natural weapon which deals damage as a claw, they may not use both it and their bite in the same round). Their eyes are a bright mithril-like silver, and they seem like a masterly crafter living piece of artwork. That is until they reach adulthood (Young Adult) when their body suffers a tragic disfigurement. Their eyes become multifaceted and green, their scales turn a lusterless grayish-white and their flesh begins to sag. A young adult or older Maladomini dragon loses its horn, which falls off becoming black and brittle. Their teeth change into rows of razor like bone plates that extend from their jaws.

Young Maladomini dragons are vain, and obsessed with their own perfect beauty, and amongst the stupidest specimens of dragon kind. They are also among the most charismatic species for their age, unfortunately upon reaching physical maturity the reflection of Baalzebul’s curse freezes their maturation in this regard and the race, once most charismatic of all the dragons in Hell no longer progresses in this regard.

Age	Size	Hit Dice	Str	Dex	Con	Int	Wis	Cha	BAB/Grp	Atk	Fort	Ref	Will	Breath Weapon:	Breath Weapon DC	Frightful Presence
Wyrmling	S	6d12+6 (45 hp)	15	10	13	8	13	16	6/4	9	6	5	6	1	14	-
Very Young	M	9d12+18 (76 hp)	17	10	15	8	13	18	9/12	12	8	6	7	1	16	-
Young	M	12d12 + 24 (102 hp)	19	10	15	10	15	20	12/16	16	10	8	10	2	18	-
Juvenile	L	15d12+45 (142 hp)	23	10	17	10	17	22	15/25	20	12	9	12	2	20	-
Young Adult	L	18d12+72 (189 hp)	27	10	19	12	17	22	18/30	25	15	11	14	2	23	25
Adult	H	21d12+105 (241 hp)	29	10	21	12	19	22	21/38	28	17	12	16	3	25	26
Mature Adult	H	24d12+144 (300 hp)	31	10	23	14	19	22	24/42	32	20	14	18	3	28	28
Old	H	27d12+199 (364 hp)	33	10	25	16	21	22	27/46	36	22	15	20	3	30	29
Very Old	H	30d12+210 (405 hp)	35	10	25	16	21	22	30/50	40	24	17	22	4	32	31
Ancient	G	33d12+264 (4785 hp)	39	10	27	18	23	22	33/59	43	26	18	24	4	34	32
Wyrm	G	36d12+324 (558 hp)	41	10	29	18	25	22	36/63	47	29	20	27	4	37	34
Great Wyrm	C	39d12+351 (604 hp)	43	10	29	20	25	22	39/71	47	30	21	28	5	38	35

Age	Speed	Init	AC	SR	Special Abilities	CL
Wyrmling	40-ft, fly 100-ft (average), burrow 20-ft	+0	16 (+1 size, +5 natural)	-	Immunity to Poison and Disease	-
Very Young	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	18 (+8 natural)	-	-	-
Young	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	21 (+11 natural)	-	Blinding Beauty	1st
Juvenile	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	23 (-1 size, +14 natural)	-	-	2nd
Young Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	26 (-1 size, +17 natural)	14	DR 5/good or silver, Aura of Flies	4th
Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	28 (-2 size, +20 natural)	16	Rot of Malbini	6th
Mature Adult	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	31 (-2 size, +23 natural)	18	DR 10/good or silver	8th
Old	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	34 (-2 size, +26 natural)	20	Insect Swarm	10th
Very Old	40-ft, fly 150-ft (poor), burrow 20-ft	+0	37 (-2 size, +29 natural)	22	DR 15/good or silver	12th
Ancient	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), burrow 20-ft	+0	38 (-4 size, +32 natural)	24	Disfiguring Touch	13th
Wyrm	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), burrow 20-ft	+0	41 (-4 size, +35 natural)	26	DR 20/good or silver	15th
Great Wyrm	40-ft, fly 200-ft (clumsy), burrow 20-ft	+0	40 (-8 size, +38 natural)	28	Suppress Regeneration	17th

Special Abilities:

Breath Weapon (Su): A Maladomini dragon has two breath weapons available to it. The first is a cone of charisma draining gas which deals the listed amount of Charisma damage and allows a Fort save for half. The second is a line of energy which decays the target’s body. Any creature struck by this line suffers a penalty to all physical ability scores equal to the dragon’s age category for 1 minute. This may not reduce a target’s ability score below 1 and is negated completely with a successful Fortitude save.

Spells: A Maladominian dragon casts spells as a bard of the listed level.

Blinding Beauty (Su): A young Maladominian dragon is supernaturally beautiful and to look on it can cause creatures to be permanently blinded. Any creature, within 60-ft, that looks upon a Maladominian dragon that is Young or Juvenile, must make a Fort save (same DC as their frightful presence) or be permanently blinded; this is a mind-affecting effect and fey, outsiders, and dragons are automatically immune. A creature which successfully saves against this ability is permanently immune to that Maladominian dragon's blinding beauty. A young adult or older Maladomini dragon loses this ability.

Aura of Flies (Su): A young adult or older Maladominian dragon is surrounded by an swarm of illusory flies. These flies do not grant cover or concealment, but any creature within 30-ft of the Maladominian dragon suffers a -2 penalty to AC and must make a Concentration check (DC 10 + ½ Maladiminian dragon’s HD + the Maladiminian dragon’s Charisma modifier + Spell level) to successfully cast a spell or use a spell-like ability. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Rot of Malbini (Su): An adult or older Maladominian dragon’s fangs carry a supernatural disease called the Rot of Malbini. Any creature struck by its bite attack must make a Fortitude save (same as Breath Weapon) or be inflicted with this horrible disease. Rot of Malbini normally has an incubation period of 1d4+1 days, but due to the supernatural nature of the Maladominian dragon the incubation period is instantaneous. This disease deals 1d4 Charisma damage.

Disfiguring Claws (Su): An ancient or older Maladominian dragon’s claw attacks deal 1 point of Charisma drain per hit.

Suppress Regeneration (Su): A great wyrm Maladominian dragon truly represents the decay which is Maladomini. Regeneration does not convert damage dealt by a Maladominian dragon’s natural weapons to non-lethal damage. In addition any creature dealt damage by a Maladominian dragon’s natural weapons loses any regeneration or fast healing it normally would have for 10 minutes.

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day Insect Swarm (old or older).

Skills: Bluff and Disguise are class skills for Maladominian dragons.

[Zaydos]

@Debihuman: Thanks, I like the idea of parthenogenesis dragons now And I was starting to be really interested in Moloch, but really these blow anything I could do with him for dragons out of the water.

Bel I'm thinking won't be too hard since he, and Avernus, are so thoroughly defined by the Blood War and Zariel, too, fought the Blood War. His favoring the small and weak might be used, though, because it's an interesting suggestion. Thankfully I have a while to make up my mind with Bel.

@un_known: if you could give any suggestions on how you want me to go with Bel, or Dis, or Glasya it might be useful.

What I'm currently contemplating:
Glasya/Malbolge: I think I'll take Debihuman's suggestion; my own idea were almost extinct dragons still loyal to Moloch
Levistus/Stygia: I'm thinking dragons confined to the waters of Stygia; low land speed, no flight, high swim speed. Contemplating taking away their claws as well, although that would leave them with very few attacks/round.
Fernia/Phlegethos: Haven't thought about it yet. Probably a fire dragon of some sort.
Mammon/Minauros: Swamp-dwelling chain dragons.
Dispater/Dis: No idea.
Avernus/Bel: Blood War focused.

Edit: Also does anybody know of any non-Dragon Magazine types of true dragons published after the Draconomicon? I can't think of any myself. And once I make 4 more dragons I'll have made more than there are in the Dragoconomicon's list of all true dragons.

Edit2: I think the next dragon I make will be non-diabolic, though. Otherwise I'll find myself starting a campaign in the 9 hells dealing with Baatezu politics.

[un_known]

Take Debihuman's idea for Glasya.

Bel something a kin to blood magic maybe?

Dis; I'll think about this one and dig through some lore to find anything we're missing or should look at.