baldur's gate descent into avernus

[Gydian]

So I just got the book on the 18th and reading through it it looks pretty cool. I have some ideas about what to throw at my players but I would like some advice as to other DM's ideas.
I figured this thread could be a great repository of means to torture players.
Let this be the first post of many.

[Gydian]

First thing swirling around in my head: I read the item description of the Sword of Zariel and had a crazy idea: what if relatively early on the sword comes to the players and sees one of them as potentially worthy to wield it, but not yet. So the party would have this powerful sentient weapon hanging around sending worm vibes that they have to keep safe until they prove good enough to wield it. Basically giving them a 'look but don't touch' treasure that all the devils want to take from them.

[Brookshw]

I haven't finished reading through it but so far I've been thinking about racing for pink slips and getting conscripted to fight in a sizable blood war battle.

[Gydian]

running the chaos of a battle field both scares and excites me.

[Xeko]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm pretty sure the Sword of Zariel is the game-ending McGuffin the characters need in order to save the world. Merely having it alters the behavior of Zariel, the BBEG of the campaign. So, allowing the players to have it so early, dunno how that'd work... of course, as DM, you could always just decide that the McGuffin DOESNT act in the way it acts.

[Sigreid]

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I'm pretty sure the Sword of Zariel is the game-ending McGuffin the characters need in order to save the world. Merely having it alters the behavior of Zariel, the BBEG of the campaign. So, allowing the players to have it so early, dunno how that'd work... of course, as DM, you could always just decide that the McGuffin DOESNT act in the way it acts.

Zariel would love for the party to find it early...so she can destroy it the same time she destroys them.

[Great Dragon]

Got Decent on 9/21/19 as an unexpected gift (I had already gotten the book before the game started, and had the $ budgeted to get after the game) from three of the members of my Saturday Group.
Very appreciated !!

Reading through, I like how this looks.

The only change that I'm immediately going do is switch number of Soul Coins (clanks) carried before Encumbered from being equal to Con to Cha score.

I'm looking forward not only to the reactions from my Players, but seeing how the members here post their experiences with this Module.

[Brookshw]

There are a couple of parts in the devil's path that are definitely potential for a tpk that I'm surprised at, at least if the party isn't in talking mode.

Spoiler

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Specifically when first rolling up on the dragonborn's/Tiamat's digs, and again potentially throwing down with 4 fire giants at Bel's.

Not sure yet if I want to modify the encounters or let them ride as is.

[Sigreid]

There are a couple of parts in the devil's path that are definitely potential for a tpk that I'm surprised at, at least if the party isn't in talking mode.

Spoiler

Show

Specifically when first rolling up on the dragonborn's/Tiamat's digs, and again potentially throwing down with 4 fire giants at Bel's.

Not sure yet if I want to modify the encounters or let them ride as is.

I like that the party is in danger through so much of the module. I'll warn the party that this is a rough one when we start and let them have at it.

[Gydian]

Does anyone have thoughts on the collective secret in the party?

I’m going to run a session zero next Tuesday. I originally tried to convince my party to have a common characteristic, from the same race, the same class, or the same background. Now with this campaign feature I’m thinking about how to use it.

[Gydian]

Nothing? Crap

[Brookshw]

Nothing? Crap

I'm not clear what "collective secret" you're referring to. The party having the sword early? Lulu's memories? How they went through the devil/demon paths? Can you please clarify?

[Gydian]

The book suggests that during session zero that you creat “the parties dark secret” on page 208.

[Spo]

Just started the campaign last week. Our collective secret was a theft. It was a different way of starting off the game with new PCs which I am open to.

[chainer1216]

Our groups secret was that we were sent to clear out a goblin nest, went there and found less than half of estimated enemies there, we clear it easily, go back, got paid and then when the reat of the goblins showed up in force at the small farm town, we bailed, letting the village be destroyed in order to survive.

[Brookshw]

The book suggests that during session zero that you creat “the parties dark secret” on page 208.

Gotcha. Personally I'd suggest to a group that they previously may have been directly or indirectly responsible for a celestial's death or (un)intentionally aided a fiendish cult. Ultimately, whatever the secret is, my inclination is that it should be heinous enough that the group may feel in need of their own redemption so that their journey might parallel Zariel's in some way. That could be more interesting than some of the options presented. Another good way to use a secret could be encountering the "victim" in hell. Don't know if this helps.

[Great Dragon]

Well. I have an interesting situation.

Party finds the following in the Treasure: Book dedicated to my new Archdevil: Tralzog with full instructions on becoming dedicated to his "cause" of becoming the most powerful secret police, enforcers, and informants in the Cosmos, along with details for building a cult for him, also included, for those flipping through the book looking for secrets to quick power, is the Ritual needed become a Fiend Warlock, with Tralzog as the Patron.

Blue Dragonborn Evoker Wizard, on the personal quest for Ultimate Power, gets curious and reads the book.
Finds the Ritual and studies it, doing so - combined with his desire for power - attracts Tralzog's attention, and "Summons" this Dragonborn down to the Sixth Level of Inferno (Hell), where a Deal is struck.

Tralzog asks what The Dragonborn's Wish is, and is told that the power of both Chain Lightning and Regeneration, and the Dragonborn first states that his Soul is safe and offers to collect the Souls of Fallen Foes (himself and his party) in exchange for this power; with every fourth Soul being used to increase the power of himself or his allies. (Either directly or by buying additional power or favors from the Archdevil)

Tralzog agrees stating that every New Moon he will send an Imp to collect the Souls, and enchanted the offered Staff to collect the Souls, along with the Mission to attempt to unseat Zariel, alone if need be; and gives the Dragonborn a Contract, which said reads to make sure everything written is as agreed, and then signs. With ten more lines for Allies to sign to gain the full benefits of the Deal.

As noted, I already have the Decent Book, and I'm guessing that at least this Player got interested when I showed the Group, and I'm loving the fact that not only does this allow me to tie the Book into the Game Story, it also allows me to break out Tralzog as both Boss and extra BBEG.

All Plot Ideas welcomed.

[pothocboots]

Tralzog asks what The Dragonborn's Wish is, and is told that the power of both Chain Lightning and Regeneration, and the Dragonborn first states that his Soul is safe and offers to collect the Souls of Fallen Foes (himself and his party) in exchange for this power; with every fourth Soul being used to increase the power of himself or his allies. (Either directly or by buying additional power or favors from the Archdevil)

Wow. I must commend Tralzog on such a wonderful deal. Not only will they be getting a steady influx of souls, but all the members of the party have created their own temptation. They will have condemned their own souls through their own actions, only minimal action from Tralzog required.

However, when they do finally die, Tralzog will be there to claim the vile soul left behind.

[Great Dragon]

Wow. I must commend Tralzog on such a wonderful deal. Not only will they be getting a steady influx of souls, but all the members of the party have created their own temptation. They will have condemned their own souls through their own actions, only minimal action from Tralzog required.

However, when they do finally die, Tralzog will be there to claim the vile soul left behind.

Thanks !

I tend to Run a lot of the Devils being like this.

Sure, Tralzog doesn't immediately get the Dragonborn's Soul (or the other Party members) when he dies (and isn't brought back), Tralzog knows that the Dragonborn's Soul will still end up in Inferno [Hell] - most likely on the Shelves of The Damned, but even if not, said Dragonborn (and anyone else that signs the contract) will have Tralzog's Mark on them (that all the other Devils can see without trying, but is usually not visible without magical detection of some kind) and whichever other Devil (that isn't an Archdevil or Archduke) will seek to capture these PCs and then trade them for their own personal gain to Tralzog.

Deals with Yogoloths (etc) are so easy to do, because of this fact, and the Individual doesn't care if they get the Soul, or even credit. Just corrupting them is enough.

Deals with Demons are a lot trickier, since they know a lot more ways around the Letter of the law, and don't care about consequences when breaking Deals/Contracts.

But, yeah. Making Deals with Fiends (and Genies, and don't forget the classic Fey) is supposed to kinda screw the Person.

Sure, you can make these kind of Deals with Celestials (etc), but remember the Fiend Disguised as a Celestial trope is a Classic way for Soul Stealing....

@BloodOgre

Yeah, giving Zariel's Sword to the party tends to go a few ways:
(1) Party is detected/discovered with Sword and decimated.*
(2) Party with Sword gets to Zariel and redeems her fairly easily.

*Remember that while Devils will take prisoners that surrender - they don't mind killing PC/s in Hell - since it nearly guarantees them being "reborn in Hell" and trapped there. DM = YmMV.

But, I offer a suggestion. Since the Sword is Sentient, not only can it choose who can Attune and use it, it can also lower it's power output to be less noticeable to those looking for it. Start with just +1 to hit/damage for chosen wielder. Then add 1d6 Radiant Damage, and go up the ladder until near Zariel, when the Sword will unmask itself for her to see, and hopefully the Party can then RP Zariel's Redemption - or not.

Having her own former Sword used against her would certainly be Irony, and make her mad as all get out.

Another side of that Suggestion is how the various Devils (and other Fiends encountered) react.
High CR Fiends* are arrogant (usually to the extreme) and will totally boss lower Ranked minions to 'go fetch that from those weaklings' and be completely surprised when said weakling Mortals kick that minion's butt!
(And get some Exp to get closer to being a real threat to the bossing Fiend)

*Well, most High Int/CR monsters - the Heroes using these flaws against them is a Trope for a reason.

[BloodOgre]

First thing swirling around in my head: I read the item description of the Sword of Zariel and had a crazy idea: what if relatively early on the sword comes to the players and sees one of them as potentially worthy to wield it, but not yet. So the party would have this powerful sentient weapon hanging around sending worm vibes that they have to keep safe until they prove good enough to wield it. Basically giving them a 'look but don't touch' treasure that all the devils want to take from them.

Cool idea on paper. But any devils or demons that get wind of the characters having the sword (a simple locate object spell would do it - it isn't like no one is looking for it - once the characters descend into hell) would very easily destroy the group and take the sword. IMHO, players shouldn't be given items they don't have the group strength to defend and keep. YMMV

[HappyDaze]

The only change that I'm immediately going do is switch number of Soul Coins (clanks) carried before Encumbered from being equal to Con to Cha score.

Why would you do this?

I think your change is a terrible idea. Con is generally something that nobody dumps but is almost never a character's primary stat. Cha is almost the opposite: generally either very high or very low depending on class. By making the change you suggest, some characters will be unfairly penalized while others gain an undeserved reward.

[Great Dragon]

Why would you do this?

I think your change is a terrible idea. Con is generally something that nobody dumps but is almost never a character's primary stat. Cha is almost the opposite: generally either very high or very low depending on class. By making the change you suggest, some characters will be unfairly penalized while others gain an undeserved reward.

While Con isn't a primary stat, as you noted - it's never a Dump stat.
And the same (some Classes will gain undeserved Rewards) applies even if left as Con.
(Barbarian, anyone?)

Note that carrying Soul Coins causes the person to FEEL that individual's emotions and suffering.
How is something that affects your Mind/Soul affecting your Health/Body?
Sure, the Super Charisma Class/es might be able to carry more clanks around, but then that also tends to attract more (unwanted) attention by them doing so: Regardless of which is used for Max number of Clanks - Con or Cha.

Part of the reason that I did that is the fact that being in a Dimension of literal (Lawful) Evil is Trying on one's Will (Which, in 5e, is now represented with Charisma, and not Wis).
But then, I run that Evil Aligned PCs would have similar problems traveling through the Celestial Realms. And all Non-Neutrals going through those Realms would also have issues.

Spoiler: Opinionated Wall of Text

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Alignment is virtually ignored these day: being viewed as either (1) completely unwanted because figuring out what another person's Motives are is a (unfun to me) Guessing Game; or (2) an Old Fashioned Straight Jacket. (Forgetting that by changing one's Behavior/s and Belief/s causes them to change Alignment/s) But, when traveling through a Dimension literally infused with the essence of an Alignment, ignoring it greatly reduces the Impact that has - for both Crunch and Fluff.

Note that there are things in Decent into Avernus that affect the Body/Health (Warping) and that is totally Constitution.

Next is that I don't like the fact that outside very Niche builds, both Int and Cha are virtually ignored as things that are used. ALL the Abilities are supposed to be important in the game, regardless of Class. But then, I'm the kind of person that does their best to buck the Trope, and actually prefers to Roll their Stats, instead of just putting out a bunch of Clones in Different Positions (Same Scores, just different arrangements)

To me, Point Buy (and especially Standard Array) are only for (1) New Players (especially Kids) to quickly get them into the game, and makes it "fair" for everyone, in that they all get the same numbers - but have control over where they put them and (2) Lazy (Power) Players that just pick what Stat/s to focus on, drop their predetermined Numbers where most effective, and then not really focus on anything else that is supposed to be used for their PC/s. (And then complain when the DM puts their PC into a situation where they are at a 'disadvantage')

But then, I do my best to discourage the Player/s from Min/Max-ing their Character/s, and believe that every Class has its weakness. Martials are strong in most physical tasks, but aren't impressive with their Mentals.
Wizards, and Sorcerers tend to focus on ONE Mental stat (never drop Con) and most commonly Dump Strength. Bards, Warlocks, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Rogues and Rangers focus on TWO Stats (usually One Physical and one Mental) or end up being MAD. Multiclassing also has both Pros and Cons.

If you read all that - Thanks!

But then, I tend to actually read and use a lot of the Older Edition Books as well as what is "Officially" 5e Material. Which is where my calling the Soul Coins "clanks" came from.

Now, I'm not one to tell others how to Run/Play their Games.
I just note what works for me, and my Logic for why I changed something
(As my Sig says, these can be affected by the input of others)

Blatant Plug - I'd love to see more people in my Ancient Realms - and other Threads.

For the most part, all of my Players (even in different Groups) like what I do.
And I offer Options and Suggestions to everyone that enjoys the game.

And now, I return to Lurking - until summoned again by a post to me., or that I have something to comment about.

[Gydian]

I took inspiration from the posters here, thank you very much, and the party had a deal with a devil as their secret. Here then is my notes as to the secret thus far:


Party made a deal with a devil,
Ultiss, knows that the players made the deal with a devil. The devil was a Narzugon, named Wolfgang von Überwald, though to prevent the characters from having power over him he tells the players that his name is “Dr. Nackter Wolf”. He first apiered to the players as smartly dressed solder in dress uniform, speaking with a German accent.
In exchange for the power and the gifts the players must pay the devil 1 soul a day or the gifts of the devil stop working and the infernal brand starts hurting worse with each day.
Devil provides:
Diamond, uncut worth 100gp, if cut could produce diamonds totaling 1,000gp.
Magic items that have three properties:
Once a day the player may turn a miss into a hit and add their character level to the damage.
They may also have one of the features below:
+1 to the damage dealt by the weapon
+1 to the chance to hit with the weapon
the damage type of the weapon deals acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, poison, or thunder.

+1 to magic spell attack
+1 to magic spell DC
The item has a quirk from the list below:
1: The character feels fortunate and optimistic about the future. They have a lot of self assurance.
2: The character becomes very covotous and materialistic.
3: The character always fells Hungary and thirsty.
4: The item constantly grumbles or mutters. If the characters listen closely they can make out some of the words.
5: The item is repulsive to the character, they feel disgusted by it.
6: The character feels slow and sluggish. They become sloths.
A magic signet ring that will capture and transport a soul to the devil. The player may collect the soul by killing someone with an unclaimed soul, Negotiating for someone’s soul on behalf of the the devil, or by perchusing a soul by way of commerce.
The devil brands each player with an infernal mark that can’t be covered with makeup of magic.
The devil will provide 9 days of loyal service but does not tell the players that this is something they have.
At level 5 the devil will offer to enchant the weapon further by granting minor beneficial properties and minor detrimental properties. (DMG 219)

[Gydian]

thoughts please?

[MrStabby]

thoughts please?

My thoughts are that this section fo the forum rules might be relevent:

"Double Posting
Posting twice in a row is generally frowned upon. If you are responding to multiple points, please use quotes and other post formatting to clarify this. Please use the Edit option to modify information in a post instead of immediately making a new one. If you do accidentally double post, you can delete the extra post under the Edit option."

[Great Dragon]

I took inspiration from the posters here, thank you very much, and the party had a deal with a devil as their secret. Here then is my notes as to the secret thus far:


Party made a deal with a devil,
Ultiss, knows that the players made the deal with a devil. The devil was a Narzugon, named Wolfgang von Überwald, though to prevent the characters from having power over him he tells the players that his name is “Dr. Nackter Wolf”. He first apiered to the players as smartly dressed solder in dress uniform, speaking with a German accent.
In exchange for the power and the gifts the players must pay the devil 1 soul a day or the gifts of the devil stop working and the infernal brand starts hurting worse with each day.

Does killing any sentient creature not dedicated to a deity count - or is there additional conditions or restrictions?

Magic items that have three properties:
Once a day the player may turn a miss into a hit and add their character level to the damage.
They may also have one of the features below:
+1 to the damage dealt by the weapon
+1 to the chance to hit with the weapon

+1 to magic spell attack
+1 to magic spell DC

To Both weapon and spells, or Class dependent?

the damage type of the weapon deals acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, poison, or thunder.

Necrotic damage? Maybe after 5th level?

At level 5 the devil will offer to enchant the weapon further by granting minor beneficial properties and minor detrimental properties. (DMG 219)

Seems ok.