(3.5) Lesser Marilith (Player Race) [PEACH]

[Lyndworm]

Despite the designation as a player race, the lesser marilith was originally intended to be an NPC. That being said, what would the LA be on such a creature? I'm thinking +4, but I wanted more opinions.

Original Overpowered Write-up

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Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Extraplanar, Evil)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

Str +8 Dex +4 Con +8
Int +0 Wis +0 Cha +6

+4 Natural Armor
Tail Slap (2d4)
6 Slams (1d6)
DR5/Good and Cold Iron
Darkvision 60ft.
Resistance to Electricity 15, Poison 15, Acid 5, Cold 5, and Fire 5
SR10
Telepathy 100 ft.

Skills: Lesser Mariliths have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

Newer, (Hopefully) Balanced Write-up (with special thanks to Afroakuma, soon-to-be-ascended God of Homebrew)

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Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Extraplanar, Evil)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

Str +4 Dex +0 Con +4
Int +0 Wis +0 Cha +2

+4 Natural Armor
Tail Slap (1d6)
DR5/Good and Cold Iron
Darkvision 60ft.
Resistance to Electricity 5 and Poison 5
SR = HD

Lesser Mariliths have six arms, and each arm is capable of attacking. Mariliths receive the Multiweapon Fighting feat at first level, and do not need to meet the prerequisites.

Despite being Large sized creatures, Lesser Mariliths are limited to Medium sized weapons. They must still use Large sized armor, which costs four times as much as Medium sized armor due to their exotic body structure.

Lesser Mariliths get a +4 racial bonus on Grapple checks.

So... What do you think?

Zack

[Lappy9000]

Why bother turning it into a race? In my book, just about anything over a LA +2 is called a monster as opposed to a race.

If its for an NPC, it really doesn't matter, I suppose.

[Lyndworm]

I realize that it's more or less rediculous. I just like to have everything set out in advance, and prepared for my players. Thank you for your interest.

Zack

[Lappy9000]

I realize that it's more or less rediculous. I just like to have everything set out in advance, and prepared for my players. Thank you for your interest.

Zack

Oh, no, I don't mean that it's a poor idea, just that it would be eaiser to run as a monster with class levels (if necessary) and then eyeball the CR accordingly.

...originally intended to be an NPC...

So you do want to make it a player race. Sorry for overlooking that

Yeah, the LA's gotta be really high on this thing. What exactly, I'm not sure. Not quite my forte. I realize I'm absolutely no help at all here...

[Zeta Kai]

So, uh, what's lesser about this Marilith? I mean, sure it doesn't get SLA's, summoning, or the constrict ability. But it still gets 7 natural attacks per round, major bonuses to 4 of the 6 total abilities (& no penalties), natural armor, damage reduction, spell resistance, resistance to just about every energy except to sonic & force, 2 arbitrary skill bonuses, AND telepathy. The idea of this monstrosity having a LA below +6 is ludicrous. It's your game, & it's meant to be an NPC anyway, but if you let a player try it out, you can take game balance & throw it out the window.

[sigurd]

What Zeta said,

Can you imagine what a difficulty Dming for a character with Telepathy 100' would be?

Sigurd

[Edge]

Telepathy requires you to know a target is there to communicate with it, and it doesn't allow to read minds or anything. It's just mental communication with a range of 100 feet. It's one of the lesser issues here.

To make this a real 'lesser' marilith, I'd drop the slams and lower the ability modifiers, the resistances and the skill modifiers for a start.

When making a 'lesser' version of a monstrous race, ask yourself what it's defining traits are, set yourself a target Level Adjustment, then try to weaken those abilities to fit your new Level Adjustment.

[Zeta Kai]

Telepathy requires you to know a target is there to communicate with it, and it doesn't allow to read minds or anything. It's just mental communication with a range of 100 feet. It's one of the lesser issues here.

I agree with your approach to making a lesser monster, but I must disagree with your view on telepathy. If this were a no-big-deal power, then more PC races would have it. Can you name one?

Telepathy presents a huge problem for DMs. This obviates negates the problems of distance, loud noise, being observed, etc. It's roughly similar to telepathic bond, which is a 5th level spell. This is no small thing.

[sigurd]

If telepathy is instantaneous and a free action this ability would create a diplomacy\intimidate\etc roll for every combatant every round. What player is not going to whisper to all his opponents "You are going to die, flee, or throw down your arms."

100' is fine to report on hidden conversations.

The player would be able to make deals with almost no chance of being overheard. It would be so easy they could exclude other players. Only the telepathic player would know everything thats going on.

I'm not commenting on the raw power here but the limitless communication would create an order more interaction rolls for the DM.

Sigurd

[Lyndworm]

Sorry it's taken so long to post. I had this typed up last night but the forum backup prevented me from posting. The revisions are inspired mostly by Zeta, and I thank him for his critique.

Spoiler

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Size/Type: Large Outsider (Chaotic, Demon, Extraplanar, Evil)
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.

Str +4 Dex +6 Con +2
Int +0 Wis +0 Cha -2

+4 Natural Armor
Tail Slap (1d6)
DR5/Good and Cold Iron
Darkvision 60ft.
Resistance to Electricity 5 and Poison 5
SR5
Telepathy 20 ft.

Skills: Lesser Mariliths have a +8 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

Lesser Mariliths have six arms and each arm is capable of attacking.

Despite being Large sized creatures, Lesser Mariliths are limited to Medium sized equipment.

Thanks a lot, guys. Any clue on the LA?

Zack