OOTS #1180 - The Discussion Thread

[Petrocorus]

Concerning Minrah being someone's love interest in addition of her own character, i'd like to point out that Hilgya is the one who raised that hypothesis first.

[DeliaP]

Concerning Minrah being someone's love interest in addition of her own character, i'd like to point out that Hilgya is the one who raised that hypothesis first.

and Hilgya was displaying the same level of rationality as her jumping to the assumption that Haley and Durkon were in a relationship. Still not sure why that should be taken as showing the Giant introduced Minrah with the intention of her being a romantic attachment.

[Petrocorus]

and Hilgya was displaying the same level of rationality as her jumping to the assumption that Haley and Durkon were in a relationship. Still not sure why that should be taken as showing the Giant introduced Minrah with the intention of her being a romantic attachment.

That's not what i meant.

I meant that since a character brought this up, in comic, that's not surprising that people have taken up this idea. Even if said character was indeed completely irrational.

[Fish]

Tactics are everything. You have to pick your moment. Because Xykon & Redcloak + dungeon full of monsters = very high level but mostly depleted spellcasters, one of whom is a lich, the other of whom is pretty squishy but carries an artifact.

I don’t know if I believe the confrontation would go that way, narratively speaking. But it could.

[jwhouk]

Go Minrah!


And stop the presses: Roy agrees with Belkar????

[ijuinkun]

Also, I was starting to get worried nobody would take the time to get a drink while in the Dwarven lands. Didn't Durkon complain about not having a decent beer in 20 years? At least that can be solved in this hour of downtime.

Given how stressful the last 24 or so hours have been, they definitely need to relax and have a couple of beers.

Hmm, is "Cure Hangover" a Level One spell for Dwarven Clerics?

[Knight13]

This was inevitable.

[RatElemental]

Leave it to the party member with ranks in Profession (Gourmet Chef) to be adamant about not leaving the Dwarven Lands without trying a genuine Dwarven Ale. It would be a crime, and not the fun kind of crime for Belkar, to leave without at least getting one mug of it first.

This isn't his first mug actually.

[Emanick]

Not really about your quote, though it is nice to see Roy learning from the talents of his other party members, but I had a question about your sig, and Belkar's upcoming death.

Does the calendar in Stickworld resemble the calendar on Earth? I.e., is the Winter Solstice there also 9-10 days from the New Year? If so, if the Godsmoot was on the Solstice, doesn't that mean Belkar's got 8-9 comic days left, max?

Which will likely only elapse at the very end of the whole OOTS saga, but that's still shorter than 20-ish days to go.

It's possible I was ninja'd on this, but the Oracle is referring to the Southern Calendar when making his prophecy, and Elan says the Southern New Year is "like a few months" after the Northern New Year.

If we want to assume that the Winter Solstice is at exactly the same time as in our world, Elan is probably off by a bit - the Northern and Southern New Years would have to be just a couple of weeks or so apart. That wouldn't be super surprising, though.

[skim172]

It's possible I was ninja'd on this, but the Oracle is referring to the Southern Calendar when making his prophecy, and Elan says the Southern New Year is "like a few months" after the Northern New Year.

If we want to assume that the Winter Solstice is at exactly the same time as in our world, Elan is probably off by a bit - the Northern and Southern New Years would have to be just a couple of weeks or so apart. That wouldn't be super surprising, though.

Assuming that both calendars mark the same day as the "new year".

Every culture tends to choose their own unique day that they consider the "new year" - whether it's in mid-winter or the end of the harvest season or the beginning of spring or the summer solstice or whatever.

[Erys]

That said, I mean, it's certainly not impossible that "she finds practical excuses for holding on to her deepest internal sentiment." A reasonable interpretation, even. I would be a little disappointed, knowing that that's how Durkon's journey as a cleric started in the first place, that he wouldn't be able to come full circle and do this for his mother.

I don't recall a comic where Durkon expresses such a desire.

I looked, can you link it?

[Emanick]

Assuming that both calendars mark the same day as the "new year".

Every culture tends to choose their own unique day that they consider the "new year" - whether it's in mid-winter or the end of the harvest season or the beginning of spring or the summer solstice or whatever.

Do you mean that either the Northern or Southern "new year" might not be the first day of the year? Because the two links I included seem to make that pretty explicit.

If you mean something else, sorry, I missed it.

[Jasdoif]

That said, I mean, it's certainly not impossible that "she finds practical excuses for holding on to her deepest internal sentiment." A reasonable interpretation, even. I would be a little disappointed, knowing that that's how Durkon's journey as a cleric started in the first place, that he wouldn't be able to come full circle and do this for his mother.

I don't recall a comic where Durkon expresses such a desire.

I looked, can you link it?

Lower-left corner of 983; Durkon decided to become a cleric so he could cast regenerate himself, after earning enough money to have someone else cast it started to look doubtful.

[Leftour]

There should be enough room in Haley's bag for a keg of dwarven ale or ten. Durkon's days of torture are finally over!

[gerryq]

I thought for a minute it was saying there was an extra comic included? Or something?

I was going to post that it's exactly what I thought! I even pressed forward and checked the archive, and it was only then that I noticed the +1 was a different colour from the 1180.

[Quartz]

Does the calendar in Stickworld resemble the calendar on Earth? I.e., is the Winter Solstice there also 9-10 days from the New Year? If so, if the Godsmoot was on the Solstice, doesn't that mean Belkar's got 8-9 comic days left, max?

So, sometime in 2021?

[Mightymosy]

Hmm. I don't know about this and I am intrigued by your thesis. Tell me more.



I'm assuming Durkon chose that comparison because it doesn't.



And I don't think getting the arm regenerated would be letting go of it in anything except symbolically.

Now, the argument that she's so used to having one arm she doesn't want to have to re-adapt, I could see that.

That said, I mean, it's certainly not impossible that "she finds practical excuses for holding on to her deepest internal sentiment." A reasonable interpretation, even. I would be a little disappointed, knowing that that's how Durkon's journey as a cleric started in the first place, that he wouldn't be able to come full circle and do this for his mother.



Maybe, maybe not. It's an assertion that sounds like it makes sense but is ultimately unprovable.

And looking at the history of the boards, I don't remember people immediately speculating on any new male character having a romantic entanglement. (Meanwhile, the number of people who speculated Laurin's favor from Tarquin would be sexual in nature was... more than it should have been.)

1. Well, that way you can never prove that because OotS happens to be 1 girl only.

But seriously, what do you think happens when people discuss such events in shows with female cast?

Like, way Sex&theCity: A new male character appears.
Oh, let's NOT discuss whose love interest that guy will be, shall we, unlest we will be named sexists.....:rolleyes:

Most people find it the MOST interesting to speculate which character the new character might mate with. Just google the success stories of basically any romance oriented "real life" series.

And since a lot of people see hetero relationships as normal because it fits themselves, they tend to speculate about those first.

If you are gay and/or prefer to speculate about gay relationships first, go ahead. No one is stopping you from shipping any two (or more) characters in dreams and in forum print.

2. What has Laurin have to do with ANY of the discussion in this thread so far????

and Hilgya was displaying the same level of rationality as her jumping to the assumption that Haley and Durkon were in a relationship. Still not sure why that should be taken as showing the Giant introduced Minrah with the intention of her being a romantic attachment.

Why attachment?

The way to write non-sexist would be to have her be a character and let her have or not have romantic relationships based on *her* will.

Avoiding a relationship for her for <reasons> is just as sexist as introducing her just to give her as trophy to some main cast.......

Wasn't Bandana lesbian?
And Minrah maybe (her private talk with Thor?)?

Maybe Burlew wishes to "correct" his cast choices and include 1. another female character and 2. a homosexual character into his main team before the story is over.

Because, why not?

[HorizonWalker]

So, sometime in 2021?

Nah, remember? To us, Durkon died nearly seven years ago. To him, it was only a week.

[mjasghar]

I definitely think Durkon would tell everyone. I am not sure whether or not that conversation would happen offscreen, since I think many of the other characters would be surprised by it. I think all the other members of the Order would have something to say about the fact that there have been many other worlds and also have something to say about being told that they need to negotiate with one of the villains they've been fighting for a long time.

I think offscreen to a major part - because it would be uneconomical in story telling terms to effectively recapitulate the whole exposition
More likely it will be mentioned as single statements here and there.

[Fyraltari]

1. Well, that way you can never prove that because OotS happens to be 1 girl only.

But seriously, what do you think happens when people discuss such events in shows with female cast?

Like, way Sex&theCity: A new male character appears.
Oh, let's NOT discuss whose love interest that guy will be, shall we, unlest we will be named sexists.....:rolleyes:

Most people find it the MOST interesting to speculate which character the new character might mate with. Just google the success stories of basically any romance oriented "real life" series

And you don’t think that is precisely because these are romance oriented? Find a serie with a majoritarily female cast which is not a romance and whose fandom does speculate on who the new guy is going to date and then you will have an example.

What has Laurin have to do with ANY of the discussion in this thread so far????

It’s a good example of how some people around here view women and their story roles.

Why attachment?

What do you mean?

The way to write non-sexist would be to have her be a character and let her have or not have romantic relationships based on *her* will.

That’s not a thing. Metaphors about the creating process notwithstanding, Minrah does not have a will. She will date somebody if and only if The Giabt finds it fitting with the story he tells.

But that’s beside the point. What upsets some here is not wether Minrah will date somebody but that people assume her staying in the story hinges on dating somebody.

[Mightymosy]

And you don’t think that is precisely because these are romance oriented? Find a serie with a majoritarily female cast which is not a romance and whose fandom does speculate on who the new guy is going to date and then you will have an example.



It’s a good example of how some people around here view women and their story roles.


What do you mean?

That’s not a thing. Metaphors about the creating process notwithstanding, Minrah does not have a will. She will date somebody if and only if The Giabt finds it fitting with the story he tells.

But that’s beside the point. What upsets some here is not wether Minrah will date somebody but that people assume her staying in the story hinges on dating somebody.

1. Problem is MOST series default to male biased casts, making it difficult to find an example
Lots of authors often use female casts only if they need to...

2. Are any of the people of the "Laurin incident" participating in the current forum thread?

3. Ok so I missed that one, honestly: Who said Minrah would ONLY stay in the story if she was a love interest?

4. Of course fictional characters don't have free will.
What I mean is writing them as if they had one. Write them as *persons*

[Schroeswald]

That ain't a necromancer mindset there.

It's a big dungeon, fulla nasties, and Xykon ain't averse to using undead monsters

But uh, he didn’t come out with any monsters last time, we saw them all go in ready for battle, and out came them and no zombies, we also didn’t see any lying around before hand so it seems likely he doesn’t animate the undead here, maybe there are so many that it wastes his near endless spell slots or he’s forgotten, but he doesn’t seem to be bringing any undead hordes out of the caves.

1. Well, that way you can never prove that because OotS happens to be 1 girl only.

But seriously, what do you think happens when people discuss such events in shows with female cast?

Like, way Sex&theCity: A new male character appears.
Oh, let's NOT discuss whose love interest that guy will be, shall we, unlest we will be named sexists.....:rolleyes:

Most people find it the MOST interesting to speculate which character the new character might mate with. Just google the success stories of basically any romance oriented "real life" series.

Order of the Stick is not Sex and the City, presuming I haven’t completely misunderstood the show the latter is sort of about the, you know, sex, in the city, while the former is not a romance thing, it has one major romance subplot and max two more minor ones, and fun fact, I’m pretty sure the moment it became clear Bandana was important people started speculating on whether she’d get with Haley, the amount of subplots about romance people have thought would happen vastly outnumbers the ones that actually happen, yet almost every single significant female character that’s introduced gets speculation on who they’re gonna date (Laurin wants Tarquin! Bandana wants Haley! Andi wants Roy! Minrah wants Durkon!)

And since a lot of people see hetero relationships as normal because it fits themselves, they tend to speculate about those first.

If you are gay and/or prefer to speculate about gay relationships first, go ahead. No one is stopping you from shipping any two (or more) characters in dreams and in forum print.

Um... what? The only mention of a lesbian relationship this whole thread was someone saying they didn’t think Minrah would get with anyone, but if it was anyone it would be Bandana, and then everyone disagreeing that Bandana would get with Minrah

2. What has Laurin have to do with ANY of the discussion in this thread so far????

The fact that our first assumption was that the completely non-sexualized character (and as it turns out, actively so) wanted to marry or sleep with Tarquin says something about us, no one thought that Miron’s last favor was that he could sleep with Tarquin wife number 5 or whatever.

And I had something to respond to the rest of this but Mr, Fyrtalirwho said it better than I could have ever said it so what he said.

EDIT:Oh and also, almost every single popular non-canon ship outside of this community is a slash ship, super common everywhere but here.

And Mosy’s response to Fytalirho (figure the best way to not mess up his name is to purposely get it wrong every time right!

1. Problem is MOST series default to male biased casts, making it difficult to find an example
Lots of authors often use female casts only if they need to...

And that’s a problem, you know that right?

2. Are any of the people of the "Laurin incident" participating in the current forum thread?

Doesn’t matter, we are still the same community, doing similar things, it’s part of our culture, and that’s the problem.

3. Ok so I missed that one, honestly: Who said Minrah would ONLY stay in the story if she was a love interest?

The main speculation for her future has been about her being with people, that is the problem.

4. Of course fictional characters don't have free will.
What I mean is writing them as if they had one. Write them as *persons*

Doesn’t change the fact that Rich has written this character he said somewhere that he stopped having Haley using gendered slurs, and then when people said it’s in her character his response was that he was writing it, not Haley.

[Garwain]

Eh, the way these usually work is that there's one big reveal to end the book on.

Roy looking down from heaven at the end of War and XPs

Blackwing talking to V and revealing what he saw in the Rift

The reveal of the High Priest of Hel and that Durkon is not in control of his body

I just noticed that all of the endings are done on board a (air)ship. No doubt we will again phase out on board of the Mechane.

[Breccia]

Ah, classic mistake there Roy. You forgot to change the settings from Friends Only to Offline.

[chiefwaha]

There should be enough room in Haley's bag for a keg of dwarven ale or ten. Durkon's days of torture are finally over!

I imagine the transportation fees Haley charges are exorbitant.

[D.One]

Minrah, still one of my favorites! Order of the Stick +1

And airport joke!!!!

[cyberchihuahua]

No tiny mug next to Mr Scruffy. Missed opprotunity.

[Peelee]

But seriously, what do you think happens when people discuss such events in shows with female cast?

Like, way Sex&theCity: A new male character appears.
Oh, let's NOT discuss whose love interest that guy will be, shall we, unlest we will be named sexists.....:rolleyes:

I don't know what's worse, that you think a show explicitly based entirely upon relationships is a good analogy or that you apparently think any show with a female cast would also be solely relationship-based.

[BasiliskSoldier]

But uh, he didn’t come out with any monsters last time, we saw them all go in ready for battle, and out came them and no zombies, we also didn’t see any lying around before hand so it seems likely he doesn’t animate the undead here, maybe there are so many that it wastes his near endless spell slots or he’s forgotten, but he doesn’t seem to be bringing any undead hordes out of the caves.

The best explanation I have is that Xykon is currently in 'adventurer mode' and undead minions aren't super helpful in the current situation. When he has to dig in and defend the gate, I imagine he'll reinforce his numbers with a couple of undead.

And even if Xykon the Necromancer doesn't bring a bunch of undead to the final battle, the Bugbear tribe probably still constitutes a numeric advantage.

Um... what? The only mention of a lesbian relationship this whole thread was someone saying they didn’t think Minrah would get with anyone, but if it was anyone it would be Bandana, and then everyone disagreeing that Bandana would get with Minrah

I stand by that, for the record. I don't think it'll happen, but I definitely think it could.

Part of that is because Bandana is the only major character I could see getting involved in a romantic subplot right now. For various reasons I think V, Durkon and Belkar are probably going to stay single, same for a character like O-Chul (I could have seen one for Hinjo a few books ago, but I think the time for that has passed). Whereas I think a romantic subplot would honestly fit decently for Bandana. I also don't think the Lawful/Chaotic divide is too big of an issue, it'd honestly probably be a benefit. Create a bit of a dynamic, a bit of tension. If this story were to happen (which I do not think it will), it'd be as a little bit of brevity to break up what I imagine will be a very high stakes final book.

I think it's like, a sub-10% chance (as opposed to Durkon/Minrah, which is sub-1% in my eyes), but I don't think it's completely out of the question

[OneSpartan]

It's like when the Brady Bunch added cousin Oliver.

Change My Mind.


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