Werewolf/Mafia: Percy Jackson

[gac3]

Depends on the setup. Less about sense and more about information. A doctor with feedback can be used to track down a killer (Xih) much more easily than a doctor without.

If you didn't get Feedback N1 Xih possibly survives the lynch.

I've personally seen it varied between results or not depending on how closed or blind the setup is.

I agree with those that said in these high power roles, it helps balance not to give feedback on that one, even if fluff wise it doesn't make as much sense.

A thought: for the sequel, different neutral roles. These were fine, but the uncertainty about what was and wasn't in the game is absolutely necessary imo.

Agreed. I will definitely pursue options outside of those used here. Maybe a satr roll, or a child of Ariadne

[bladescape]

I agree with those that said in these high power roles, it helps balance not to give feedback on that one, even if fluff wise it doesn't make as much sense.



Agreed. I will definitely pursue options outside of those used here. Maybe a satr roll, or a child of Ariadne

Honestly, it's tempting to claim Child of Ariadne next time no matter what. But make sure I claim something else first.

[totadileplayz]

I agree with those that said in these high power roles, it helps balance not to give feedback on that one, even if fluff wise it doesn't make as much sense.



Agreed. I will definitely pursue options outside of those used here. Maybe a satr roll, or a child of Ariadne

Yeah it's almost like I actually proved Xihirli or Rogan was a wolf and everyone ignored my contribution there. And thought I was completely useless for the entire game. The problem is afterwards I started listening to town and then I became bunk.

[gac3]

Yeah it's almost like I actually proved Xihirli or Rogan was a wolf and everyone ignored my contribution there. And thought I was completely useless for the entire game. The problem is afterwards I started listening to town and then I became bunk.

So.... I'll be honest, I don't know what to say here. I wasn't a player so I'm not going to apologize for anything they did. But you've ranted about being done with this community here and the central hub now.

So if this is just you being bitter and wanting to keep complaining, I will just continue to ignore it as what it is, pointless.

If this is you being bitter and wanting someone to say something to help validate you because you don't actually want to leave the community, then know that I saw your contribution. I saw everyone's contribution. I didn't know what kind of player you were before and now I do and I don't think you were or are useless. I hope you can move past this and continue playing. I would enjoy playing in more games with you and I'm sorry that things have upset you.

[totadileplayz]

So.... I'll be honest, I don't know what to say here. I wasn't a player so I'm not going to apologize for anything they did. But you've ranted about being done with this community here and the central hub now.

So if this is just you being bitter and wanting to keep complaining, I will just continue to ignore it as what it is, pointless.

If this is you being bitter and wanting someone to say something to help validate you because you don't actually want to leave the community, then know that I saw your contribution. I saw everyone's contribution. I didn't know what kind of player you were before and now I do and I don't think you were or are useless. I hope you can move past this and continue playing. I would enjoy playing in more games with you and I'm sorry that things have upset you.

You honestly just hit the nail on the head. You get told your useless from someone you actually have an inkling of respect for and you get hurt you feel pain because you actually care about their opinions. Any game of trust and mutualism requires respect and caring about the other players you'll feel aggravated if things keep on happening annoyed, but people you like also starts to develop. Xihirli is literally a joker who is pleased from chaos was actively acting differently and wasn't contributing besides attempting to defend herself and when I was frustrated and in actual physical pain and delirious I said something to her that i shouldn't have and i am sorry, but i was hoping for her to prove it not through saying she does contribute but by enacting her to actually do so she failed to do so in any satisfactory manner during the game and failed to do so. AV actively called my theorizing from incomplete and distorted data which I derived from others that I thought at the time knew more then me and by all practical detail did useless even though she knew that I was actively trying to do my best from the given data sure it may be horrible and false but when factors are narrowed down of course I'd regain suspicion in the town-core you actively ensured I did and Flat_Footed did fail to act in accordance to what he should so he was sus. And since this game is about public perception you try to defend yourself no one seems to agree or even comment on it so you feel it's reaffirmed thus you start thinking about leaving the community and not only does someone once again just drop the nail on the thing that hurt you making you feel justified in your previous beliefs derived from it.

I understand this part of my brain and I couldn't help it because I needed validation desperately because if no one provided it it only proves that I was wrong i was truly useless and if I'm useless why play I'd be better off not contributing at all at least I wouldn't hurt the game. I can not possibly join another game with QT networks however they frustrate me and actually instigated the instance in the first place.

[Elenna]

A thought: for the sequel, different neutral roles. These were fine, but the uncertainty about what was and wasn't in the game is absolutely necessary imo.

Yeah, this.
Also, I meant to say but forgot: consider telling the wolves what roles are not in the game, maybe? On one hand, that makes it easier for wolves to pin down town PRs, which may or may not be something you want. On the other hand, it might give wolves more options for fakeclaims.

Honestly, it's tempting to claim Child of Ariadne next time no matter what. But make sure I claim something else first.

[bladescape]

Yeah, this.
Also, I meant to say but forgot: consider telling the wolves what roles are not in the game, maybe? On one hand, that makes it easier for wolves to pin down town PRs, which may or may not be something you want. On the other hand, it might give wolves more options for fakeclaims.

I actually agree with this. It doesn't give wolves any info on who is who, but it does give them on what to look out for, which honestly I don't think is a bad thing.

[gac3]

Yeah, this.
Also, I meant to say but forgot: consider telling the wolves what roles are not in the game, maybe? On one hand, that makes it easier for wolves to pin down town PRs, which may or may not be something you want. On the other hand, it might give wolves more options for fakeclaims.

I actually agree with this. It doesn't give wolves any info on who is who, but it does give them on what to look out for, which honestly I don't think is a bad thing.

Okay so my thought was to have people from the Roman camp be the wolves in the next game. That's happening.

The idea I was on the fence about was having three powers per god. The first two powers work exactly like they did in this game. The third one would be a "Roman power" and would be an additional power added to wolves who are the child of that role? I have hypothetical examples that I will want feedback on but what do you all think about that? Something like a child of Athena might have an enhanced version of the Athena scry, which tells the wolves which roles aren't in the game. Or others.

[Xihirli]

I'm down to kill some Romans.

Did you know that the Romans were so stupid that some of their provinces actually illegalized fire departments.

[Batcathat]

Did you know that the Romans were so stupid that some of their provinces actually illegalized fire departments.

To be fair, at least some early fire departments would show up and go "So your house is on fire, huh? Well, sell it to me cheap and maybe we'll put it out" so I could kinda see why Romans would be biased against them. (Though obviously the better sollution would be to make this specific behavior illegal).

[MornShine]

Reading through wolfchat, and wow. There's a lot of "is MornShine the other mason? Nah, can't be, because it would require them to to pretend to be AFK". That's hilarious, especially because when I said I was AFK and/or forgot that the game had started, I was never once lying.

For any future mason-buddies: How about I claim, create QT's, and then you can post anonymously. That never occurred to me, likely due to QT-ineptness, and my AFK tendencies are not helpful in such a case.

[Snowblaze]

I knew there was a good reason to be so paranoid about posting anonymously in the neutral QT (I was Wolf, by the way. Because I wasn’t feeling very imaginative.)

Snowblaze is on the list for claiming wolf and not being lynched - AV in deadchat

I’m guessing you mean X-Mafia, where my claim was “I was roleblocked on this night there was no kill”. Unlike Xihirli this game, I got away with it!

Definitely agreed on “someone should claim child of Ariadne next game” - although I will immediately try to kill that player!

Also I can’t decide whether this should count as a death for sig purposes.

[totadileplayz]

I knew there was a good reason to be so paranoid about posting anonymously in the neutral QT (I was Wolf, by the way. Because I wasn’t feeling very imaginative.)

Snowblaze is on the list for claiming wolf and not being lynched - AV in deadchat

I’m guessing you mean X-Mafia, where my claim was “I was roleblocked on this night there was no kill”. Unlike Xihirli this game, I got away with it!

Definitely agreed on “someone should claim child of Ariadne next game” - although I will immediately try to kill that player!

Also I can’t decide whether this should count as a death for sig purposes.

Games lost yes. And Forfeits are an admittance of an unavoidable death so yes to death as well.

[MornShine]

Nah, add a new line, forfeits!

[totadileplayz]

How does town feel about wolves forfeiting?

[MornShine]

Eh. It's better than dragging it out for another day (or two). Town win was absolutely inevitable at that point, which is why the wolves surrendered.

Town still-- well, AV would disagree with "earned", and rightly so-- blundered into this victory, despite the ending in surrender.

[Murska]

All powerroles setups are super hard to balance well. Masons are super hard to balance well while making them at all interesting to play as / with. Private communication is even more hard to balance well. It was a pretty rough setup for the wolves, yeah.

[gac3]

All powerroles setups are super hard to balance well. Masons are super hard to balance well while making them at all interesting to play as / with. Private communication is even more hard to balance well. It was a pretty rough setup for the wolves, yeah.

I figure at this point, for the next one, it wouldn't hurt anything too bad to accidentally balance it too wolf heavy.

[Elenna]

Reading through wolfchat, and wow. There's a lot of "is MornShine the other mason? Nah, can't be, because it would require them to to pretend to be AFK". That's hilarious, especially because when I said I was AFK and/or forgot that the game had started, I was never once lying.

For any future mason-buddies: How about I claim, create QT's, and then you can post anonymously. That never occurred to me, likely due to QT-ineptness, and my AFK tendencies are not helpful in such a case.

Lol yeah I was sure Apogee wouldn't have started a network like that without even talking to his mason buddy. Guess I was just wrong about that. Very ballsy, although it might have backfired a little if AV hadn't been resurrected and you hadn't been active enough to run the network.

(Also, I specifically mentioned you could post anonymously in my QT with Apogee. )

How does town feel about wolves forfeiting?

Not town, but: I kinda was curious to see how the next couple days would play out with a network that didn't have a designated leader. At the same time, once town figured out that they needed to lynch Libro, it was pretty clear that there was no way Snow was going to win, so I can't blame her for not wanting to play through several more days of guaranteed loss.

So, in this particular game I'm a little meh on it, but in general surrenders are usually more fun than playing through several days where people already know how it'll go. Particularly if town already knows for sure who all the wolves are (technically not the case this time), in which case days just turn into everyone voting a wolf and then waiting 48 hours, which is no fun.

All powerroles setups are super hard to balance well. Masons are super hard to balance well while making them at all interesting to play as / with. Private communication is even more hard to balance well. It was a pretty rough setup for the wolves, yeah.

This. Granted, all-PR games are generally pretty fun (IMO) even if they're unbalanced/swingy.

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Oh and in this particular game I kinda wish wolves had murdered Jeen for revenge before surrendering. Even if that would have been a bad move in terms of actually trying to win the game.

[JeenLeen]

The danger of the Masons this game seemed to be no strong risk in revealing. Maybe if they are set up as Lovers (if one dies, the other dies), to increase the risk. Less guarantee of someone vetted to pass the network on to.

Or I could also see a rule that wolves can use aliases in the QTs, but Town cannot. So no hiding as "Protagonist" or "Sibling" or some such for townies, but a wolf could post as "Kossath, Infernal Duke" or some such.

Either limits the strength of the network.

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Not town, but: I kinda was curious to see how the next couple days would play out with a network that didn't have a designated leader. At the same time, once town figured out that they needed to lynch Libro, it was pretty clear that there was no way Snow was going to win, so I can't blame her for not wanting to play through several more days of guaranteed loss.

So, in this particular game I'm a little meh on it, but in general surrenders are usually more fun than playing through several days where people already know how it'll go. Particularly if town already knows for sure who all the wolves are (technically not the case this time), in which case days just turn into everyone voting a wolf and then waiting 48 hours, which is no fun.

Agreed in general.
I like the games to continue if there's a fighting chance, even an unlikely one.
But, in this case, it really was just waiting around. It felt like the second half of the final Day wasn't really doing anything. The only "up in the air" was if I'd win, too, and if anyone was sharing QTs with Batcathat to let him win. (I probably would have shared more during the Night. I had been feeding some links into my QT with him, when they seemed safe to share, especially after deadchat was sealed.)

So, yeah, once the Libro lynch was guranateed early Day, the only "iffy" ones in my mind were Cao, Snowblaze, and Murska. Then Town reminded me why Murska was vetted as Town between AV's scry and being proven not to be Aphrodite. Even if our vig misfired (or didn't fire) each night, and even if the wolves got a NK each night (unlikely), Town had enough numbers to lynch both.

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I’m guessing you mean X-Mafia, where my claim was “I was roleblocked on this night there was no kill”. Unlike Xihirli this game, I got away with it!

I think there were two games, that one and Wizard's Tower, when the wolves won without any casualties. Those were (I being wolf in those games) good times.
Also funny thing in Wizard's Town when the vigilante, wolves, and serial killer all targeted the same dude N1. And I think said dude would have outted a wolf D2 and forced a lynch if not that someone targeted him. (He had some of those "scry someone, then if they are your target, next day challenge a duel and only the two of you can be voted for"-type powers.)

AV was a neutral and joined the wolves near the end, though I think she was considering betraying us to try for a solo Survivor win.

[Grand Arbiter]

Maybe if they are set up as Lovers (if one dies, the other dies), to increase the risk.

Definitely works for a pair of masons. 3-4 mason games, imo, could have a shared night power that loses strength/consistency when a mason dies.

Kossath, Infernal Duke

*pillar of fire*

The full title is Kossath, Infernal Duke, Sovereign of Hellfire, Incinerator of Angels and Bearer of the Molten Tome. It is a title your patron will become familiar with when Olympus is razed.

*pillar of fire*

Wizard's Tower, when the wolves won without any casualties. ... Also funny thing in Wizard's Town when the vigilante, wolves, and serial killer all targeted the same dude N1.

That game was my first game as vigilante.

I hope to god it is also my last game as vigilante.

[Murska]

I would suggest no private communication outside the thread, or if there is any (such as with Masons) then strictly limited. Fixes most problems with networks and brings the gameplay to the thread where everyone can see it.

[AvatarVecna]

I would suggest no private communication outside the thread, or if there is any (such as with Masons) then strictly limited. Fixes most problems with networks and brings the gameplay to the thread where everyone can see it.

In this recent spat of games, a bunch of the early ones had a free QT setup and I would always give everybody a QT with me for networking. Which is why most of the time since that first half-dozen games, QTs have either been strictly limited or banned outright. The fact that it causes 90% of game play to not take place within the thread is good tactic for town to gather info while not announcing that gathered info publicly where just anybody can see it, but it's bad community strategy because it means rereading old games, you're gonna be super-lost trying to follow why things are happening the way they are, because the mass QTs never get posted and even if they were determining timeline after the fact is a chore. It gives you the same frustrating experience as any town players who didn't make/run the network would've had.

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As I said when discussing it about the masons, it's basically an anti-fun strat. I just personally have a problem holding back from making use of the tools available for the sake of victory - even if long-term approaching games that way and getting emotional sometimes drives players away. It's a definite problem for me personally and for the community at large so long as there's at least one me, and it's easier to just discourage or ban QT spam as narrator.

[JeenLeen]

In general, I greatly prefer no open permission to create QTs. I either prefer no private communication (beyond wolfchat, masons, etc.) or it only allowed via a particular Role. Xi's Yugioh game letting you create up to 2 QTs was a good in-between.

I'd find it incredibly annoying to manage all those QTs if I was running a game. So I restrict them in my games mostly out of laziness and knowing I'd otherwise find it unfun to run the game.

That game was my first game as vigilante.

I hope to god it is also my last game as vigilante.

We wolves definitely appreciated your contributions as vigilante
It was also fun disintegrating you (death without Role reveal), as AV was convinced the baner was actually the vigilante.

[Batcathat]

In general, I greatly prefer no open permission to create QTs. I either prefer no private communication (beyond wolfchat, masons, etc.) or it only allowed via a particular Role. Xi's Yugioh game letting you create up to 2 QTs was a good in-between.

Based on my very limited experience, I agree with this.

[rogue_alchemist]

It is in my best interest to help neutrals for future games. If I'm a known champion for neutrals during my town games when I'm neutral people are more likely to say that I should win myself and may help with my goals.

Talk about playing games within games. You are using this game to help you out in future games, you are on a totadile different level (haha, puns are fun). I have seen your most recent post that you are probably going to keep playing, so I am glad we didn't run you off. If it makes you feel any better, I have never been on the inside of the town network. I know how frustrating that side is and I usually end up getting Lynched D1 or D2 (though on occasion I get killed N1 instead :p). This is the longest I have survived and probably the most I have had my contributions actually achieve something. It is not easy when you don't know if you can trust your gut and you can't convince other people to trust your guts.

How does town feel about wolves forfeiting?

I was yelled at in one game where I was wolf for not conceding defeat sooner and accepting the loss. I can see it from both perspectives. The point of the game is: it is not over til it is over and you could have something happen or something come up that moves town off in a different direction (see Snowblaze on D2). I came out of nowhere and convinced enough people to vote Xi to get her lynched over very little info and for very little reason (within game). Now it makes a little more sense because team wolf realized it was 1 wolf or the other getting lynched, so they could really pick who to sacrifice more and by fighting for one of the other they would probably just create more suspicion the next day, but the point stands that things could suddenly swing and shift. On the other hand it is no fun just going through the mechanics of lynching people in a set order and performing actions that everyone knows will lead to a set condition with no chance of changing it.

[gac3]

That game was my first game as vigilante.

I hope to god it is also my last game as vigilante.

That was my first game here. At all. It has formed the baseline for my concepts of thing game I guess. Every time I am making a new game, I go to Wizards tower and look at the roles their first.

I would suggest no private communication outside the thread, or if there is any (such as with Masons) then strictly limited. Fixes most problems with networks and brings the gameplay to the thread where everyone can see it.

I doubt I'll ever run one that bans QTs entirely. I started with a string of games with QTs and it was a while before anyone restricted them. That said, I may try to add things to discourage QTs.

[JeenLeen]

On thoughts of surrender: there was one game where Town was almost guaranteed to win, but there was a chance they'd implode upon themselves out of paranoia and start mislynching, even though the game had basically been solved.

I think Town still won, but it maybe gave reasons for the wolves to try to stick it out even when surrender seemed likely. I can't remember which game this was, though.
(For this game, though, surrender made sense. Even a bit of paranoid mislynching wouldn't have made a big difference.)

[totadileplayz]

On thoughts of surrender: there was one game where Town was almost guaranteed to win, but there was a chance they'd implode upon themselves out of paranoia and start mislynching, even though the game had basically been solved.

I think Town still won, but it maybe gave reasons for the wolves to try to stick it out even when surrender seemed likely. I can't remember which game this was, though.
(For this game, though, surrender made sense. Even a bit of paranoid mislynching wouldn't have made a big difference.)

I can say honestly I was pushing for a Snowblaze vig that very night.

[gac3]

My favorite part of this game was night one.

Before night even happened Jeen is like "I target Xihirli because I always do night one". That would block Xi and give Jeen a confirmation of target.

Then Night roles around and Xi wants to kill Jeen. And switch AV and Snowblaze. So Jeen is currently saving his own life.

Rogan wants to kill AV and Jeen switches targets to Elenna after I double check if he wants to target Xi (since he submitted it before night/lynch happened). At this point Jeen is going to be killed for changing his mind and Rogan is going to accidentally shoot Snowblaze. The game would be down three neutrals and a wolf with a complete town.

Then I'm pretty sure the wolves decide to target Totadileplayz thinking he was the other mason. Book wombat also decides to target Xi. So Xi is backed to being blocked, which saves Snow, outs Xi, and kills AV.





Night two Bladescape got hit by like everything either by being targeted or by Valmark being targeted.

Then when I learned night three wasn't going to have a successful wolf kill either, I still couldn't stop laughing.

Also except for the final night, Book Wombat intentionally or unintentionally hit a wolf every night.