Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground LIV

[Kuulvheysoon]

Random question - where do send requests for the next Iron Chef class?

You don't, really. There's always some clamoring for certain ingredients around the end of a given round, but in the end it's down to the chairman's whim.

*Cue Evil Laughter*

[Kaje]

This is a really interesting one. Think I'll compete.

[WhamBamSam]

*Cue Evil Laughter*

Y'know I just realized that what with this being both a natural weapons class and a half-casting class, I can kiss my hopes of getting Rage Mage or Slime Lord any time soon goodbye.



Anyhow, with all the interest this ingredient seems to be stirring up, how cheesy my own idea is, and my Spring Break falling in the judging period, I think I will stick to my judging commitment after all. I'll post the stub and general idea after the reveal.

[Kaje]

Is it still frowned upon to mix settings?

[Sian]

It tends to get a hit scorewise ...

[WhamBamSam]

Unless the things you're mixing are really specific to the setting, judges usually don't seem to care that much. So using a Faerun regional feat and dragonmark stuff then you're in for an elegance hit, but you can probably use a Faerun book and an Eberron book without running afoul of most judges.

[Macabaret]

After all the talk in here, I've gotta ask a question about Bone Spurs.
(Hehehe...)
From what I'm seeing, it's an at-will ability that uses a free action to cause the spikey protrusions to appear. But I don't see anything indicating how long they actually last. Should I be assuming that they are permanent until "shut off" and that it is also a free action to end the effect?

[Gemini476]

What's the official Iron Chef stance for what happens when you lose the prerequisites of a PrC? I can think of multiple ways to lose some of the prerequisites for the SI (including one way using just the SI and the entering class!), so I'd like to make sure before I try anything weird.

Are we going with the standard rules (a.k.a. "nothing happens"), or are we assuming that the CW/CA rules go for all classes?

[relytdan]

After all the talk in here, I've gotta ask a question about Bone Spurs.
(Hehehe...)
From what I'm seeing, it's an at-will ability that uses a free action to cause the spikey protrusions to appear. But I don't see anything indicating how long they actually last. Should I be assuming that they are permanent until "shut off" and that it is also a free action to end the effect?

it was ruled to be permenant

What's the official Iron Chef stance for what happens when you lose the prerequisites of a PrC? I can think of multiple ways to lose some of the prerequisites for the SI (including one way using just the SI and the entering class!), so I'd like to make sure before I try anything weird.

Are we going with the standard rules (a.k.a. "nothing happens"), or are we assuming that the CW/CA rules go for all classes?

with the exception of 2 books I believe that once you are in a PRC having qualified for it that you no longer need to qualify for it.

[WhamBamSam]

After all the talk in here, I've gotta ask a question about Bone Spurs.
(Hehehe...)
From what I'm seeing, it's an at-will ability that uses a free action to cause the spikey protrusions to appear. But I don't see anything indicating how long they actually last. Should I be assuming that they are permanent until "shut off" and that it is also a free action to end the effect?

RAW I'm not sure you actually can shut them off, but that seems like a reasonable way to rule it, and how I'd have it work if I were DMing with an Osteomancer at the table.

What's the official Iron Chef stance for what happens when you lose the prerequisites of a PrC? I can think of multiple ways to lose some of the prerequisites for the SI (including one way using just the SI and the entering class!), so I'd like to make sure before I try anything weird.

Are we going with the standard rules (a.k.a. "nothing happens"), or are we assuming that the CW/CA rules go for all classes?

Some judges might ping you a little on elegance for losing PrC qualification, regardless of where the PrC comes from. There's no official stance of IC, and it's down to the judge in question.

it was ruled to be permenant

That was Sieze the Core, not the Bone Spurs.

with the exception of 2 books I believe that once you are in a PRC having qualified for it that you no longer need to qualify for it.

That's probably RAW, but some judges still may look askance at such things.

[Tim Proctor]

Well I don't know about everyone else but I got both my builds in. It seems being unemployed gives you lots of time for IC competitions.

[Eldonauran]

Well I don't know about everyone else but I got both my builds in. It seems being unemployed gives you lots of time for IC competitions.

Wow, you got a lot of time to wait till the reveal...

As for myself, I'm going to compete again. Had to get a copy of the source book before I could decide. I ... have an 'interesting' idea.

[OMG PONIES]

RAW I'm not sure you actually can shut them off, but that seems like a reasonable way to rule it, and how I'd have it work if I were DMing with an Osteomancer at the table.

Everlasting Bone Spurs just struck me as a horrific mental image. "My bones...they won't stop growing!"

Well I don't know about everyone else but I got both my builds in. It seems being unemployed gives you lots of time for IC competitions.

Plus it's great resumé fodder. Right? Right??? RIGHT?!

[Sian]

only need to touch up my fluff for my first character, and i'm fairly certain what my second character is going to be

[Tim Proctor]

Plus it's great resumé fodder. Right? Right??? RIGHT?!

Yeah, down at the bottom where organizations and extraciricular stuff goes I put GitP IC Competitor, and put that it utilizes a lot of research, logic, and excel spreadhseets.

[Kazyan]

Got my idea, and for once, some pretty strong fluff. This will be fun to write up.

[The Viscount]

Everlasting Bone Spurs just struck me as a horrific mental image. "My bones...they won't stop growing!"

Hey, it's not all that bad.

Spoiler

Show

Or alternatively

Spoiler

Show

[Gemini476]

Some judges might ping you a little on elegance for losing PrC qualification, regardless of where the PrC comes from. There's no official stance of IC, and it's down to the judge in question.

Alright. I think that I'd do fine if I actually used the specific combination I thought of, though, because the reason for disqualification is really dumb.
Not quite Dragon Disciple dumb, but dumb nonetheless.

...That said, I probably won't go for it anyway because it's generally non-optimal. I'll reveal the dysfunction after the builds are revealed, and maybe comment on it if anyone actually used the class I thought of. Just because it's not that obvious.

[Hangwind]

Alright, how would a monk's unarmed strike interact with the spurs/spikes? Since we are saying they work the same way can you get the full sequence with all of them?

[Gemini476]

Alright, how would a monk's unarmed strike interact with the spurs/spikes? Since we are saying they work the same way can you get the full sequence with all of them?

If they work the same way then to use both you either need to TWF or just share the iterative attacks between them.

Just like anyone else using Unarmed Strikes and Armor Spikes/Spiked Gauntlets.

[SoraWolf7]

Since this is my first Iron Chef challenge, I'd like to ask the amount of money our character is assumed to have in total for the build. I can't say I know an easy way to find this, save from asking.

I have my build idea ironed out, I just need to outfit it a little.

[relytdan]

Since this is my first Iron Chef challenge, I'd like to ask the amount of money our character is assumed to have in total for the build. I can't say I know an easy way to find this, save from asking.

I have my build idea ironed out, I just need to outfit it a little.

um as per a level 20 character build the total is 760,000

But it should be noted that several judges tend to deduct for reliance on items in a few cases even listing an item could result in a deduction...
generally speaking you can put a notation that XX items could be used to improve the character in some sort of optional gear listing.

[Eldonauran]

um as per a level 20 character build the total is 760,000

But it should be noted that several judges tend to deduct for reliance on items in a few cases even listing an item could result in a deduction...
generally speaking you can put a notation that XX items could be used to improve the character in some sort of optional gear listing.

To expand on this, reliance on an item tends to be something like using a belt of X or headband of X to meet requirements the character could not meet otherwise. I think (and I stress the word 'think') that you should never assume your character has access to that particular item.

[Tim Proctor]

Since this is my first Iron Chef challenge, I'd like to ask the amount of money our character is assumed to have in total for the build. I can't say I know an easy way to find this, save from asking.

I have my build idea ironed out, I just need to outfit it a little.

None, it's a trap.

Even when you spell out that your character does something with a basic weapons at level 20, if you have any item listed they will deduct points. If you put a suggested WBL gear list I've never seen bonus points and I'vee seen judges get confused with suggested/required. I'd suggest not listing items whatsover as you gain nother from it.

Oh BTW don't trust the judges they can barely read, don't understand rules, and are controlled by the Illuminati.

[WhamBamSam]

Since this is my first Iron Chef challenge, I'd like to ask the amount of money our character is assumed to have in total for the build. I can't say I know an easy way to find this, save from asking.

I have my build idea ironed out, I just need to outfit it a little.

I generally just add in a rough general guideline of what to shop for. You don't need to include items at all, and should try to avoid assuming too specific a gear list.

This thread, which is also linked in the FAQ might be helpful, and you can also read over some placing entries from past competitions to get a good general idea of how things are done.

[Kesnit]

Just speaking for myself...

But it should be noted that several judges tend to deduct for reliance on items in a few cases even listing an item could result in a deduction...
generally speaking you can put a notation that XX items could be used to improve the character in some sort of optional gear listing.

I don't deduct for listing items. On the other hand, I almost never look at what items a chef listed.

To expand on this, reliance on an item tends to be something like using a belt of X or headband of X to meet requirements the character could not meet otherwise.

^This. The first thing I do is check the build's unmodified stats. That's what I use to determine pre-reqs.

I think (and I stress the word 'think') that you should never assume your character has access to that particular item.

^This, too. Most DM's will be nice enough to allow access to items that boost stats, but that is not guaranteed. Nor is it guaranteed that you will get a full +6 item.

Oh BTW don't trust the judges they can barely read, don't understand rules, and are controlled by the Illuminati.

SHHH!!!! You aren't supposed to tell that!

Besides, you know very well we aren't controlled by the Illuminati. We're controlled by the Gray Ones.

[OMG PONIES]

Even when you spell out that your character does something with a basic weapons at level 20, if you have any item listed they will deduct points.

This may be an overstatement of the situation. If you give me items that assist your schtick, I consider them as part of your build. If your entry boasts repeatedly about its +65 Spellcraft check but I notice a ring of +30 Spellcraft, I'd say you're putting a lot of stock in that one item and would deduct accordingly.

If you put a suggested WBL gear list I've never seen bonus points and [I've] seen judges get confused with suggested/required. I'd suggest not listing items [whatsoever] as you gain [nothing] from it.

Here's the problem with getting bonus points for items--most of the gear we're showcasing here has been used before. Belts of Battle, stat boosters, and so on are standard fare and (at least for me) standard fare doesn't gain one extra credit. If you show me a new item or create an amazing use for an existing one, you may see some points from me. Granted, my current rubric would grant those bonus points under Originality whereas item reliance is deducted in Power, so one may not see the points where they'd usually expect them. As with everything, your mileage may vary.

Oh BTW don't trust the judges they can barely read, don't understand rules, and are controlled by the Illuminati.

Sounds about right.

SHHH!!!! You aren't supposed to tell that!

Besides, you know very well we aren't controlled by the Illuminati. We're controlled by the Gray Ones.

Speak for yourself; I just do whatever Blue Ivy Carter tells me to.

[Vaz]

Like Ponies says, from a judges point of view, a build which boasts the ability to make Epic Spellcraft Checks, but has an item making up half the leg work, then that's a penalty; on the other hand, a build which is reliant on an item (say a class requires Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and you've got the Forge of Thautam as your choice of items, and no other access to the feat), then you can expect an Elegance penalty pretty safely.

[Amphetryon]

Like Ponies says, from a judges point of view, a build which boasts the ability to make Epic Spellcraft Checks, but has an item making up half the leg work, then that's a penalty; on the other hand, a build which is reliant on an item (say a class requires Craft Magic Arms and Armour, and you've got the Forge of Thautam as your choice of items, and no other access to the feat), then you can expect an Elegance penalty pretty safely.

. . . which might be worth it, if the rest of your concept is spiffy enough.

[Hangwind]

I... I have three awesome ideas! Can I enter them all? PLEASE?