Volo's Guide to Absurdly Small Dinosaurs

[Joe the Rat]

They are pack animals, though, accustomed to sharing space as they cooperate to take down prey.

We need a Swarm of Velociraptors.

I'd love to see a Swarm of Compsognathus, they were so cute in Jurassik Parc. <3

I really need to finish my Swarm conversion notes.

(Originally I was intending to use Swarms to deal with large scale combat: Use swarm rules for blocks of mook-monsters. I ended up using the autohit option).

But yes, the smaller dinos are now actual-sized vs. hollywood sized.

Best to think of size in "control and necessary for easy movement." Long necks add reach.

[Logosloki]

For those looking for the plural for Deinonychus, aside from the name itself and Deinonychuses (lame!, Boring!). I present to you... Deinonychon. Which has the added bonus of sounding like a band name.

Edit: Out of curiosity I checked to see and yes, Onychology is indeed the medical study of finger/toe-nails.

[Naanomi]

Are most Tiny creatures in 5E comparable in weight or height to Velociraptor though?

In 5e tiny just means 'anything smaller than small', it covers a substantial range so that such comparisons might not be meaningful

[JackPhoenix]

What we really need is some Dire Dinos.

Aren't dinosaurs (or at least theropods) dire chickens already? I mean, velociraptor is tiny, feathered and nasty...

[hamishspence]

In 5e tiny just means 'anything smaller than small', it covers a substantial range so that such comparisons might not be meaningful

I was thinking more "if it's not significantly smaller than other Small creatures - why should it be Tiny"?

If there are already Tiny creatures comparable to Velociraptor, or if the smallest Small creatures are all still a bit bigger than Velociraptor, it being Tiny is fine.

[TundraBuccaneer]

Aren't dinosaurs (or at least theropods) dire chickens already? I mean, velociraptor is tiny, feathered and nasty...

Why always chicken, why not an eagle-croc.(Its not personal, sorry if it looks like that, I just see and hear this everywhere thus its annoying me) Birds of prey are also bad-ass and feather why not use them to base dinosaurs on. And if the non-flying part bothers you: secretary bird.

[Regitnui]

Aren't dinosaurs (or at least theropods) dire chickens already? I mean, velociraptor is tiny, feathered and nasty...

Now I just picture a pack of white velociraptors chasing an elf in a green cap...

[JackPhoenix]

Why always chicken, why not an eagle-croc.(Its not personal, sorry if it looks like that, I just see and hear this everywhere thus its annoying me) Birds of prey are also bad-ass and feather why not use them to base dinosaurs on. And if the non-flying part bothers you: secretary bird.

Well, comparing them to chickens is funnier. As you say, birds of prey already are badass, just like dinosaurs, chickens aren't (some roosters are exception). The only birds even less similar to dinosaurs than chickens are propably penguins.

[Coidzor]

I'd prefer the Magebred (smarter and tamed) and Horrid (Armour-plated, cunning and vicious) templates, but they were introduced in Eberron, so I may be biased.

Well, those are general templates which would be nice to have added to the canon.

I suppose a general Dire template would be nice too, but I was talking about specific examples to add back in Pulp and Hollywood dinosrawrs.

[Malifice]

Polar bears used to be a distinct genus, then they got lumped into _Ursus_ as a species, now they are generally considered to be a subspecies of the brown bear species.

Yet they can interbreed. I suppose horses and donkeys (and lions and tigers) can as well and they're entirely different species.

Also; nice to see another West Aussie. You're up late!

[Maxilian]

Why always chicken, why not an eagle-croc.(Its not personal, sorry if it looks like that, I just see and hear this everywhere thus its annoying me) Birds of prey are also bad-ass and feather why not use them to base dinosaurs on. And if the non-flying part bothers you: secretary bird.

Because they don't fly, and chickens are the first avian creature that does not fly that people imagine first.

Note: IMHO we could say that we already have those in the MM (there's a large beast that is a bird that can be used as a mount, that may do the trick) -Maybe those are actual dinosours :P

[MaxWilson]

Not once you realize they're primarily going off height, rather than length. The Tyrannosaurus was about 15 to 20 feet tall, which makes it either a big Huge or a small Gargantuan creature, so Huge works fine.

If this supposition were true, you'd see two changes in the rules:

(1) Giants would be Gargantuan instead of Huge, and
(2) Huge creatures wouldn't be defined as requiring/controlling 15' x 15' of space, since some of them (like T-Rexes) wouldn't even fit inside of a space that small.

Remember that a Huge creature can fit inside of a 10' x 10' space if it takes disadvantage on attack rolls/certain ability checks. There's no way a full-size T-Rex can fit into a 10' x 10' space without an external force smashing it in extra-tight.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

If this supposition were true, you'd see two changes in the rules:
(1) Giants would be Gargantuan instead of Huge, and
(2) Huge creatures wouldn't be defined as requiring/controlling 15' x 15' of space, since some of them (like T-Rexes) wouldn't even fit inside of a space that small.

I'm talking about bipedal dinosaurs specifically, not giants. They have entirely different body shapes. It is internally consistent with the dinosaurs, though, such as with the velociraptor and the deinonychus.

Remember that a Huge creature can fit inside of a 10' x 10' space if it takes disadvantage on attack rolls/certain ability checks. There's no way a full-size T-Rex can fit into a 10' x 10' space without an external force smashing it in extra-tight.

I have no idea how flexible a T-Rex is, but I will concede that they probably couldn't attack at all in such a space, even if they wedged themselves in there.

[Gastronomie]

T-Rexes wouldn't have any problem with a width of 10', but their tails are created to balance their bodies on the front and back, and are probably not flexible enough to turn around 90 degress or more. Indeed, it would be impossible for them to fit in a 10'x10'x10' square unless they broke all their tail bones.

But then again, the same probably applies to a lot of Huge-sized monsters in the MM.

[Malifice]

Only on a DnD forum would discussing the methods for jamming a T-Rex into a 10x10x10 box be a thing.

[Gastronomie]

Only on a DnD forum would discussing the methods for jamming a T-Rex into a 10x10x10 box be a thing.

I feel the urge to sig this, is it fine?

[Malifice]

I feel the urge to sig this, is it fine?

Be my guest :)

[MaxWilson]

T-Rexes wouldn't have any problem with a width of 10', but their tails are created to balance their bodies on the front and back, and are probably not flexible enough to turn around 90 degress or more. Indeed, it would be impossible for them to fit in a 10'x10'x10' square unless they broke all their tail bones.

But then again, the same probably applies to a lot of Huge-sized monsters in the MM.

Proof by contradiction. Those monsters aren't as big as you think they are. If they were, you'd have a contradiction in the rules.

[Finback]

While that is fairly long hair, I notice it's concentrated on the back and flanks. The legs are (comparatively) bare. A T.Rex may have had a similar set up; feathers only on its neck or head; areas exposed to sunlight.

I did also mention other uses of feathers: display purposes (the aforementioned T.Rex mane) and lift. The smaller dromeosaurs, like velociraptor, are thought to have been able to extend their jumps by flapping, something that a T.rex's small arms would have been unable to do.

There's even thought that baby dromaeosaurids may have even been capable of short flight; they were certainly well suited to climbing, when you factor in the sickle-claw, and the likelihood of wing-assisted incline running.

[Finback]

Yet they can interbreed. I suppose horses and donkeys (and lions and tigers) can as well and they're entirely different species.

Also; nice to see another West Aussie. You're up late!

Yeah, therein lies the whole fun of phylogeny and cladistics. Felines on the whole are *really* gene-fluid - look at ocicats, servocats, and all the other wild-domestic hybrids. Canines too - wolves and dogs, coyotes and dogs, dingos (place your bets on whether they're a species or a subspecies), *ugh*. And then try to figure out whether there are 17 species of _Triceratops_, when you can't see them age, or crossbreed them.

And, I probably haven't changed my location settings on this machine... I probably wasn't up that late!

[Finback]

Why always chicken, why not an eagle-croc.(Its not personal, sorry if it looks like that, I just see and hear this everywhere thus its annoying me) Birds of prey are also bad-ass and feather why not use them to base dinosaurs on. And if the non-flying part bothers you: secretary bird.

A lot of it comes from this weird meme from a few years back of, "The closest living thing to a T. rex is a chicken", with a lot of dubious claims about DNA - which are flatly wrong. ALL modern birds are closer to each other, than any of them is to any tyrannosauroid - hell, even _Velociraptor_ would be closer to a chicken, than T. rex. But somehow this notion got mainstream, and people seem to think there's this direct line from rex to Rhode Island Red, with other birds shooting off.

In the words of Mr. Gumby, "Oh, it makes me *mad*"

[TundraBuccaneer]

A lot of it comes from this weird meme from a few years back of, "The closest living thing to a T. rex is a chicken", with a lot of dubious claims about DNA - which are flatly wrong. ALL modern birds are closer to each other, than any of them is to any tyrannosauroid - hell, even _Velociraptor_ would be closer to a chicken, than T. rex. But somehow this notion got mainstream, and people seem to think there's this direct line from rex to Rhode Island Red, with other birds shooting off.

In the words of Mr. Gumby, "Oh, it makes me *mad*"

But the worst is that almost every documentary it says: its basically a chicken. And then ask them selves why don't people accept the 'new' perception of dinosaurs?
And yes it makes me mad too Mr.Grumpby, we could have people being exited about the terror bird++ but no, people want to be 'hilarious' and say look its like the dumbest bird ever.