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  1. - Top - End - #361
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Question: Has anyone ran any Mafia-less cult games? Is that a thing? Or are cults just a side faction in a greater Mafia game?

  2. - Top - End - #362
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Question: Has anyone ran any Mafia-less cult games? Is that a thing? Or are cults just a side faction in a greater Mafia game?
    I did my pirate game awhile back that was just a cult game. It was also a secret cult, so it only came out once y'all lynched a cultist.


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  3. - Top - End - #363
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    There was also "The thing", where the villagers had the power to detect things via a test that was non-lethal for scientist but killed the things.

  4. - Top - End - #364
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    My Pelor game was like that. There was a Serial Killer to help balance it. No PMs, started as one cultist but they survived their first death. Cult games do seem incredibly hard to balance.

    https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...e-Burning-Hate

    EDIT: as all the cult games show, I think the biggest challenge is balancing
    1) how to not let it end D1 if the Town is lucky
    2) how to not let the cult simply overwhelm the Town
    There's also a third question of if the cult has a factional conversion, or one person converts. If one person, does the cult lose the power to convert if that person dies. I think most cult-only games would use a factional conversion, but I did the latter by boosting the powers of converts: basically a headless cult became an alien faction (strong powers, but no convert or NK).

    For #1, the easiest is having 2 cultists to start, so the Town can't lynch them both D1. In my game, I had a survival mechanic that made the cultist immune to death until he made one convert.
    For RA's Thing game, #2 was handled by a neat lynch mechanic. AV's was handled (?) by Town being really well-powered, but bastardy stuff making everything confused. In mine, it really wasn't handled, except maybe by an open format, 1 starting cultist, and no factional conversion meaning that the cult had to get a strong headstart to not lose.

    I think cult works better when tied to a mafia, but it certainly can work in its own game. Just the balance is way trickier.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2021-06-09 at 10:01 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #365
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I will at this point be taking criticism.

    Duel Academy Roles

    Jaden Yuki – Baner: You’re gonna be the next King of Games! Bottom of your class in grades, but top in dueling, you can do anything as long as you remember that games should be fun!
    Neo Space
    During your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player for your Neo-Spacians to protect. In the Standby Phase of the next turn, that player gains the effect: Cannot be targeted by card effects. This effect lasts until the next standby phase.

    Syrus Truesdale – True Friend: You are the forgotten child, always thought of as “Zanye’s little brother.” You’re not as good a duelist as your brother, but you’re a much better friend.
    Limiter Remover: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. Their effect is boosted depending on their special ability. Once you target a player, you cannot boost that same player until 2 Standby Phases have passed.

    Bastion Misawa – Strategist: A prodigy, you were put into Ra Yellow in your freshman year due to your clever dueling. You are the best choice to protect the Spirit Keys, and you mean to prove it.
    Bonding - H2O
    Target 1 Player. Starting in the next Standby Phase, whenever that Player targets another with their special ability, they gain the additional effect: “leave a puddle of water behind for your target to find.” This effect is permanent.

    Chazz Princeton – The Chazz! The youngest of the Princetons, and the future King of Games! It’s time for the rise of… the Chazz! No one will defeat you! And if they do, they’ll regret it!
    Chthonian Blast
    On your Main Phase 2: You can Target 1 Player. Starting in the next turn’s standby phase, if you are Destroyed (by battle or card effect), the other player is also Destroyed. If you target another player with this ability, this effect is no longer active on any previous target(s).

    Alexis Rhodes – Queen of Obelisk Blue: You need to save your brother. You know you’ll find him someday. For now, you need to protect your key.
    ADDITIONAL WIN CONDITION: Alexis Rhodes can win with the rest of town, OR she can find her brother and leave.
    ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION CONDITION: If Alexis’s brother is Destroyed, she is Destroyed as well.
    Prima Light
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. If they are your brother, they are asked if they would like to go with you on the next Standby Phase. If they accept, you and that player immediately win and depart the game. You do not know whether you were rejected or merely chose an invalid target.

    Zane Truesdale – Hell Kaiser: You’re the best duelist in school and the best choice to protect the Spirit Keys from the Shadow Riders. And you’ll prove it with ruthless efficiency.
    Power Bond
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. Destroy that target during the next Standby Phase.


    Professor Shepherd – Seer:
    You know your students, and these Shadow Riders are certainly not your students!
    Your role PM only identifies you as “Duel Academy Professor.”
    Gold Sarcophagus
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. Learn that player’s role during the next standby phase. Targeting yourself will return the result “Duel Academy Professor.”

    Professor Crowler – Fool: In the words of Alexis Rhodes, “Crowler talks a good game but he plays a terrible one.” You’re never quite as clever as you like to say you are.
    Your Role PM only identifies you as “Duel Academy Professor.”
    Unfinished Time Box
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. Receive a random role result as if it were a scry result in the next standby phase. Targeting yourself will return the result “Duel Academy Professor.”

    Chumley – The 'Licious: You never really fit in until you met Jaden and Cyrus. Now you'll stick by them!
    Koala March
    The first time you would be Destroyed by card effects, you are not Destroyed.

    Blair Flannigan – Pursuer: You are in love with Zane Truesdale, and he will be yours and see how much you care for him!
    Beckoning Light
    On your Main Phase 2: You can Target 1 player. Starting on the next Standby Phase, that player can only target you with card effects, and if they choose another target they instead target you. Only one Player may be affected by "Beckoning Light" at one time.

    Elemental HERO Neos – Watcher: You are the Pharoah’s trusted friend and most faithful servant, and are ever vigilant in your task of protecting him.
    Eye of Truth
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. On your next Standby Phase, learn any player(s) Targeted by that player on the same Main Phase 2.

    Elemental HERO Flame Wingman – Lookout: You are the student of the Dark Magician, and must watch for what he misses. Sage’s Stone: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. On your next Standby Phase, learn any player(s) that targeted them, except yourself, on the same Main Phase 2.

    Winged Kuriboh – Sacrificial Lamb: You were passed from the previous King of Games to Jaden in order to protect him, and you bloody well will!
    Transcendent Wings: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 player. Starting in the next Standby Phase, if you are Destroyed by battle or card effect, the first time that player would be Destroyed, they are not Destroyed. If you target another player with this ability, this effect is no longer active on any previous target(s).

    Shadow Rider Roles

    Kagemaru – Alpha Leader of the Shadow Riders, you shall regain your lost youth, whatever it takes.
    Raviel, Lord of Phantasms: You are unaffected by card effects. When you are targeted by a card effect, you decide what result the Player who targeted you receives.
    Hamon, Lord of Striking Thunder: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. In the Endphase, Destroy them. This power passes on to the next villain in the event of its owner’s Destruction, in the order that the roles are listed.
    Uria, Lord of Searing Flames: You can empower your strikes with powerful flame. You can make your Striking Thunder attack unblockable. Once used, this ability cannot be activated again until a full turn order has passed (so you would only be able to use this every other turn).

    Amnael – Devil: You are capable of assuming the identity of the mild-mannered Lyman Banner, a trusted professor well-liked by your students. As a golem, you need the Philosopher’s Stone in order to regain your lost humanity.
    Lead Compass
    At the start of the game, you learn four Duel Academy roles not currently in play.
    Silver Key
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 Player. In the Endphase, learn their role.

    Camula – Vampire: You are an actual vampire. It’s not quite clear how that happened. Since when are vampires real? Whatever.
    Book of Life
    The first time you would be Destroyed (by battle or card effect), you are not Destroyed.
    Illusion Gate
    On your Main Phase 2: Target 2 Players. Any card effect, other than your own, that targets either Player until the next Endphase instead targets the other.

    Nightshroud – Ghost: You are possessing the body of an unwilling host whose name is definitely not important. Surely it couldn’t be the only missing person alluded to in the game. You serve as a Shadow Rider, and have for many lifetimes.
    Zero: You can read, but not post in, the Dead-Chat.
    Infinity: When you are Destroyed, Target 1 Player. In the Endphase, take control of that target (they become a Villain).

    Don Zaloog – Graverobber: A spirit of the trading card “Don Zaloog,” you have taken advantage of your new life to form a gang of grave-robbers who call themselves the Dark Scorpions. Also you’re helping the guy who brought you to life out.
    Dark Scorpion – Gorg the Strong: Votes against you are subtracted by 2.
    Dark Scorpion – Chick the Yellow: On your Main Phase 2: Target 1 enemy player that is Destroyed; gain their effects and perform targeting as appropriate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I plan to make a hero who can read the Dead-Chat too so that Nightshroud doesn't just mean "if you're a hero you shouldn't post in deadchat."
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2021-06-13 at 09:27 PM.
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  6. - Top - End - #366
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I like how Raviel, Lord of Phantasms makes it so that it isn't so easy to find the "Zorc" of this game. That's good balance, and removes the weakness of an ability like that.
    No serious critique, though. I like seeing Don Zaloog as a Role. He and Envoy of the Beginning were probably my favorite cards.

    I was going to ask "Would Bonding-H20 leave a puddle for someone to find if it was done by the NKer", but then realized
    1) the target would be dead, so they wouldn't find it anyway (well, if not baned)
    2) at least the original NKer couldn't be targeted by Bonding-H20
    Huh... I guess that's a way to prove someone isn't the initial NKer. But that takes enough coordination with Town openly stating their Roles, that it seems a fair weakness to leave in.

    ---

    Idea for a Role, and wondering how powerful it seems. Is meant for a wolf.
    I envisioned it for a Stormlight Archive (Brandon Sanderson books) game, but I'd feel bad actually making it that lest it spoil stuff for folk not reading it yet. But I have some ideas of how it could fit into other games. Based on the last couple games, I feel like making a game where the wolves have more of an edge, and this seems a good info-gathering power.

    If scried, you appear as a vanilla town.
    Each night, you learn who targeted whom (after any redirections), but not what power they used or if it was successful.
    E.g.,
    JeenLeen targeted Xihirli.
    AvatarVecna targeted gac3.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2021-06-14 at 01:17 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #367
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Just passively? You learn every target?
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  8. - Top - End - #368
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Seems pretty strong.
    "Trust bladescape, Shadow of Doubt,"




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  9. - Top - End - #369
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    For an all-power game.
    From Xi's Yugioh game and the current game, it seems like wolf powers need to be stronger than Town ones, in an all-power game. Hence the thought on that. But, yeah, I can see it as too strong, since it'd let the wolves figure out how Roles sooner than later.
    Also I realize the "scry as Town" part makes little sense when it's an all-power game. Or, well, the vanillager thing, since a Role this strong sholud only exist when there's no vanillagers.

  10. - Top - End - #370
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Here is a question could an all neutral game exist? All win-cons are unknown at least one person wants another dead. Keep on going until all win cons are either failed or succeeded.

  11. - Top - End - #371
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Here is a question could an all neutral game exist? All win-cons are unknown at least one person wants another dead. Keep on going until all win cons are either failed or succeeded.
    It can definitely exist in the sense of being playable.
    I'm not sure how much interest it would have. It also messes with the inherent dynamic of Mafia in that everyone knows they aren't on a team, so what is the commonality to band together and decide who to lynch?

    I tend to dislike bastard games (e.g., ones where the narrator lies and a lot is unknown), but I could see this working if nobody knows that is the setup. That is, we're all told it's basically a normal Mafia game, but eventually realize everyone is neutral.

  12. - Top - End - #372
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    It can definitely exist in the sense of being playable.
    I'm not sure how much interest it would have. It also messes with the inherent dynamic of Mafia in that everyone knows they aren't on a team, so what is the commonality to band together and decide who to lynch?

    I tend to dislike bastard games (e.g., ones where the narrator lies and a lot is unknown), but I could see this working if nobody knows that is the setup. That is, we're all told it's basically a normal Mafia game, but eventually realize everyone is neutral.
    Oh it could be a hot potato type deal. The night kill is randomly and anonymously assigned to one of the people on the lynch train provided the previous night killer is the one being lynched.

  13. - Top - End - #373
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    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Oh it could be a hot potato type deal. The night kill is randomly and anonymously assigned to one of the people on the lynch train provided the previous night killer is the one being lynched.
    One game idea I got from reading a physical set of mafia game instructions was an alternative game where there are no wolves, the narrator picks the kill every night, and the game ends when all townies die or the narrator is lynched. I was absolutely floored by the idea that this alternate game mode would be suggested in a physical rulebook, because that implies one would employ this strategy while within strangling distance of the players you're being a bastard to.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  14. - Top - End - #374
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    One game idea I got from reading a physical set of mafia game instructions was an alternative game where there are no wolves, the narrator picks the kill every night, and the game ends when all townies die or the narrator is lynched. I was absolutely floored by the idea that this alternate game mode would be suggested in a physical rulebook, because that implies one would employ this strategy while within strangling distance of the players you're being a bastard to.
    So your saying the all-neutrals hot-potato game is a bastard game?

  15. - Top - End - #375
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    So your saying the all-neutrals hot-potato game is a bastard game?
    Not saying it has to be, more that it could be. Mostly that what you said reminded me of a bastard-setup that could explain the kills coming from none of the players.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  16. - Top - End - #376
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Something else I reccomend don't have a known role list that universally helps town more then the wolves.

  17. - Top - End - #377
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    Valmark's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    I wonder how well could a game where roles are re-assigned each night could work. Every day (or night) the roles and potentially alignments are switched- every time a member of a faction dies that faction is permanently reduced by one (so
    for example if you have four wolves and kill one then the day after you'd have different wolves but still just three of them).

  18. - Top - End - #378
    Halfling in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I wonder how well could a game where roles are re-assigned each night could work. Every day (or night) the roles and potentially alignments are switched- every time a member of a faction dies that faction is permanently reduced by one (so
    for example if you have four wolves and kill one then the day after you'd have different wolves but still just three of them).
    The night needs to start the phase. Why? So that the scries aren't useless and since the teams are randomized all the time there won't possibly be enough info to rely on. The wolves will of course hide and possibly even lie a counterclaim saying another's role claim is false and they are in fact the role in question.

    I actually can not rationalize a situation where this is not balanced against town.

    This is assuming people are playing faithfully. The highest chance for an individual to win is to try to win as town and since that's the case when you are a wolf you could simply say hey I know X is a wolf because we are on the same team so lynch X. Where X is the player in question. Chances are players might lynch you but seeing as how you just ratted out on your own team once you may do so again so they might keep you around in hopes to eliminate the wolf team.

    A better idea would be a power swap dynamic where everyone swaps powers at the end of the night no kerfuffle and similar chaos.
    Last edited by totadileplayz; 2021-06-15 at 01:30 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #379
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Personally, I would not like to play this game.
    Switching Alignment means your previous success is now a disadvantage for you.

    Switching the power on the other hand could be interesting, but I think it would be more beneficial for town. Unless killing the carrier of a role would also remove this role from the game?

  20. - Top - End - #380
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Put me on the list somewhere for Percy Jackson 2. I will make changes and I have ideas for different fluff even.

  21. - Top - End - #381
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Percy Jackson Mafia has ended in victory for town, the Champion Of Hera, and the Child Of Nemesis.

    Additionally, I've found a Percy Jackson WW buried in the archives, run over a decade ago. Fairly straightforward setup much more grounded in the specific characters from the books.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xumtiil View Post
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  22. - Top - End - #382
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    The night needs to start the phase. Why? So that the scries aren't useless and since the teams are randomized all the time there won't possibly be enough info to rely on. The wolves will of course hide and possibly even lie a counterclaim saying another's role claim is false and they are in fact the role in question.

    I actually can not rationalize a situation where this is not balanced against town.

    This is assuming people are playing faithfully. The highest chance for an individual to win is to try to win as town and since that's the case when you are a wolf you could simply say hey I know X is a wolf because we are on the same team so lynch X. Where X is the player in question. Chances are players might lynch you but seeing as how you just ratted out on your own team once you may do so again so they might keep you around in hopes to eliminate the wolf team.

    A better idea would be a power swap dynamic where everyone swaps powers at the end of the night no kerfuffle and similar chaos.
    That makes sense, yeah. I was thinking that wolves would be playing as wolves since you don't know how often you'll be one (playing against your team could mess you up if you end up a wolf multiple times) but I see how it'd lead to frustration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Personally, I would not like to play this game.
    Switching Alignment means your previous success is now a disadvantage for you.

    Switching the power on the other hand could be interesting, but I think it would be more beneficial for town. Unless killing the carrier of a role would also remove this role from the game?
    That was my idea. Especially since when people start dying there'll be more roles then people, so not all can be used- it makes sense that the 'dead' roles would stay dead.

  23. - Top - End - #383
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Put me on the list somewhere for Percy Jackson 2. I will make changes and I have ideas for different fluff even.
    Can you please make sure to include the skipped over roles from this game?

  24. - Top - End - #384
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Can you please make sure to include the skipped over roles from this game?
    Like make sure they are on the new list or make sure they get chosen first?

  25. - Top - End - #385
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Like make sure they are on the new list or make sure they get chosen first?
    At least the first one. I'd prefer the second.

  26. - Top - End - #386
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Percy Jackson Mafia has ended in victory for town, the Champion Of Hera, and the Child Of Nemesis.

    Additionally, I've found a Percy Jackson WW buried in the archives, run over a decade ago. Fairly straightforward setup much more grounded in the specific characters from the books.
    Oh man... That resurrection sounds worse than mine... But thinking about it more, it might just be an extra life situation.

  27. - Top - End - #387
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Oh man... That resurrection sounds worse than mine... But thinking about it more, it might just be an extra life situation.
    The "choose your side" part is interesting. But the power... no, thats horrible.

  28. - Top - End - #388
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    At least the first one. I'd prefer the second.
    Unless there are major objections from other people, I probably won't drastically change much about the roles we didn't try out. But whether they get chosen might depend on numbers. I won't be expecting 21 people again.

  29. - Top - End - #389
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Unless there are major objections from other people, I probably won't drastically change much about the roles we didn't try out. But whether they get chosen might depend on numbers. I won't be expecting 21 people again.
    Yeah especially since I doubt I'll be playing mafia again.

  30. - Top - End - #390
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    Default Re: Mafia Capital (WWC XIII): Important Info Here -- READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by gac3 View Post
    Unless there are major objections from other people, I probably won't drastically change much about the roles we didn't try out. But whether they get chosen might depend on numbers. I won't be expecting 21 people again.
    On the top of my head, I know three roles not in the game. Big reveal, booster and beast.
    There are two more, right?

    I don't know what you had in mind for the booster, but I think there might be lot's of interactions you should consider beforehand. Like, what happens with passive powers, like hard to kill? The beast? What about the necromancer? The Siblings?
    You don't need to answer those questions, but you should have answers ready in case they come up.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Yeah especially since I doubt I'll be playing mafia again.
    I'm sorry you feel that way. I think you had bad luck with your power usage and didn't receive the same number of information other players got. Without all information, you got to some bad conclusions (like we have to kill Rogan). This didn't help your reputation.

    You honestly tried to be helpful. It's not your own fault you didn't help that much.

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