Another thread about the fall of FAQ

[Sevley]

I know there have been a lot of threads about FAQ and speculation about whether or not it was Stanley who captured the city and it strikes me as a very interesting discussion that could reveal a lot about character motivations. I've been reading the Erf-archives and I came across a few things I thought were interesting, some of which I've already seen posted.

1) Jillian became a barbarian a turn after receiving urgent news of an overflight of dragons. Presumably this message came from King Banhammer or a caster under his command. If Banhammer and Stanley/Saline had made a deal, as has been suggested, there would be no reason for him to send a message to Jillian about dragons as he would probably consider them to be bearing an ambassador (unless they had broken alliance, which is quite possible)

2) Sizemore says that Stanley took him and several other casters on a special mission. It has also been speculated that this mission took place at the same time FAQ fell and that the mission was regarding FAQ. Since Stanley is a warlord, fs the mission had been a battle, skirmish, or raid, it would not have been particularly special. Furthermore we have seen the importance of casters in Erfworld and that most rulers take care not to put their casters in positions of danger. For this special mission to merit the presence of multiple casters, it must have been very important.

3) Gobwin Knob casters have shown a good deal of loyalty, as everyone has noted in the past week or two. Wanda, not under any loyalty spell, attacks Jillian and the entire Coalition air force to protect Stanley. Later, Jack, who is a former admirer of Jillian's, remains with Stanley and helps him escape her clutches. this could be due to the imposition of Duty and Loyalty on casters, but it doesn't appear that either of Banhammer's former casters are chafing under Stanley's rules.

4) When Vinny first questions Ansom about his motivations, they mention the fact that Stanley barely touched Jetstone forces. Vinny suggests that Ansom hates the fact that Stanley isn't royalty (which is very logical and probably partly true, if not entirely true) and Ansom replies angrily that he committed regicide. but we know that Stanley didn't actually commit regicide. Saline died during a goblin uprising and it's highly unlikely that Stanley possessed either the motivation or the negotiating skills to pull something like that off. Which means Ansom is either making assumptions, talking out of his boop, or lying.

5) Around the same time, Vinny asks Ansom if the Arkenpliers might cancel out the Arkenhammer. Ansom says no, because they aren't attuned to him. Storywise, this could have been to express knowledge, to us, the audience - the issue of the Arkenpliers is brought up again later when Stanley says they aren't attuned to Ansom because Ansom is merely bringing them to Stanley. How does Stanley know the Arkenpliers aren't attuned to Ansom? If Jetsone and Stanley's forces have only had a few small encounters, the chances of Ansom meeting Stanley personally are low. But if Vinny doesn't know about attunement, it can hardly be common knowledge. This suggests, to me at least, that Ansom and Stanley have had some kind of encounter.

6) Ansom has three main confidantes and advisers in the story: Vinny, Webinar and Jillian. Webinar is a Jetsone warlord and loyal to Ansom, so his elevated status is obvious. What about Vinny and Jillian? Vinny has a lot of good advice, and as we have seen from the involvement of Transylvito in the war, comes from a powerful side. Transylvito has a ton of high level warlords and is probably a very powerful side in Erfworld. Not only that, but Vinny is very level-headed and could have easily assisted Ansom is bringing the Royal Crown Coalition to life. Any of these reasons could be why Ansom trusts him so much. What about Jillian? She is a high level barbarian who joins the coalition and is captured on her first mission. Ansom may have heard rumours that she was royalty, but nothing concrete. Why is she a confidante of Ansom when she is a barbarian? She's good looking and maybe he finds her adventurous spirit exciting. But when Parson sends him a thinkagram, he is incensed and rants about how he is stronger, smarter, and more morally fit to command than people below him. For someone that obsessed with royalty, why would he have had such a crush on Jillian? As a barbarian, shouldn't he have dismissed her as being far beneath her? The only reasons for his infatuation seem to be her beauty and military prowess.

So I realize that this Wall of Text is a little long, and probably more than a little irrelevant, but hopefully you can see where I am going with this and bear with me a bit longer.

Stanley was at FAQ, around the time it fell, but it's not necessarily true that is was him who attacked it.

FAQ's former casters are loyal to Stanley.

Stanley knows, apparently against common knowledge, that Ansom isn't attuned to the Arkenpliers.

Ansom, against his obsession with royalty, is equally obsessed with Jillian. This suggests to me that he knew about her royal status before.

Ansom has falsely accused Stanley of regicide.

Other people have suggested that it was Charlescomm who attacked FAQ and maybe it was, but it seems likely to me that Ansom had some sort of presence at FAQ before it fell and some meeting with Stanley while he was there. If Stanley had fought or encountered Ansom, he would know the Arkenpliers were not attuned to Ansom. If Stanley were to have discovered something about Ansom (ie, that Ansom were attacking FAQ) Ansom might be afraid someone else would find out. That could account for his dropping everything to kill Stanley. If he had worked with Charles to organize the gobwin uprising, he could have used the opportunity to accuse Stanley of regicide since no one else would know. If Stanley had rescued some of FAQ's casters from Ansom's forces it might explain why they are so loyal to him.

Now I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons why this couldn't have happened and I'd like to hear them all! Do you think Ansom could have lied to Jillian all this time and had a role in the fall of FAQ?

P.S. Sorry for the long post

[DevilDan]

I always assumed that the "Smurf"-style huts shown in the third panel here were the target of Stanley's mission. Unless we posit that Sizemore is hiding information from Parson, he would surely have mentioned Wanda and Faq.

Also, Ansom doesn't come out and say that Stanley committed regicide, just that he came to power by it. Vinny replies: yeah, sort of.

Arkentools are important items of religious and cosmic significance; people talk. Certainly Stanley would make it his business to learn all he can about the tools.

We can argue that anyone could have taken down Faq and used a Foolamancer to create the dwagons. (That just leaves the question of how else Faq casters ended up in GK and how Stanley knows about Faq.)

If Ansom knew anything about Faq, he could have pretended that he trusted Jillian, that he took her at her word, and allowed her to catch Stanley when he first fled GK.

[Swiftrain]

One additional factor for you..

Ansom seems suprised when jillian reveals she's from FAQ

So maybe he did'nt know about it which make them meeting unlikley?

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I just got a fax full of facts about the fall of FAQ
It says in double trouble the triple cities
of the bubble kingdom fell
when the veiled spell of that foul Fool Jack failed
and let Stanley attack on the back of a dwagon pack
Warlord bonus on top of Arkentool stacked
croaked the crack clerks of Banhammer's staff
Wanda watching in the wings went wild
while Jillian far-off, wayward child,
one turn a frantic message got
then turned barbarian on the spot
The Gobwin enemy to the sword put Saline IV
The Heir Designate prevented the end of the state,
recaptured his side and, not royal, through regicide
became Overlord Stanley the Plaid
Disdain vain speculation on that nation
in the world of Erf. We may as well argue
the worth of a Smurf or which alignment is true.
Best put this thread to bed. Let history be read
tomorrow when the next page is due.

[Demented]

While flying over the smurf huts, Stanley doesn't seem to be carrying a big glowing item. In panels subsequent his return, however....

[SteveD]

Heh, nice stuff Hamster.

Good post Sevley, but I'd call you on a few assumptions.

First off, we don't know for sure that the mission Stanley took the casters on had anything to do with Faq (although it does fit a rough timeline).

Next, we've seen a bit more of Stanley's human side lately, which has warmed people too him, but some are also forgetting his motivations. Its quite possible that Stanley did have Saline killed if he viewed it as a necessary step on his journey to quest for the Arkentools.

[SteveMB]

While flying over the smurf huts, Stanley doesn't seem to be carrying a big glowing item. In panels subsequent his return, however....

If you're suggesting that that's when he acquired the Arkenhammer, how do you explain the fact that he'd already tamed a bunch of dwagons?

[ChowGuy]

If Jetsone and Stanley's forces have only had a few small encounters, the chances of Ansom meeting Stanley personally are low. But if Vinny doesn't know about attunement, it can hardly be common knowledge. This suggests, to me at least, that Ansom and Stanley have had some kind of encounter.

Stanley had only croaked "a few Jetstone field units" before Ansom formed the RCC. Since then someone, presumably the RCC, has been rolling over his former 11-city empire. I'd say they've had more then "a few small encounters."

As for "common knowledge" we have no idea how long Vinny has been with the coalition. Your speculation about his helping form it seems inconsistent with his never having asked Ansom till a few days ago why he was leading it. Further while the existence of the four known Arkentools is common knowledge, the mechanics of Fate Magic need not be. Ansom in fact says it is a mystery to him. To Stanley on the other hand, who is attuned to one, it may be much clearer. Ansom, despite having an Artifact, has demonstrated no clear benefit from it, as have Stanley himself or Charlie. Even Vinny knows that it is the Hammer that gives Stanley power over Dwagons, and that Charlie's unmatched Thinkamancy skills [likely] stem from his Artifact as well is also probably well known.The inference then that Ansom does not know how to use his is obvious.

[Olibarro]

If you're suggesting that that's when he acquired the Arkenhammer, how do you explain the fact that he'd already tamed a bunch of dwagons?

Yes. And Sizemore says specifically that Stanley found the hammer, tamed the dwagons, and won a bunch of battles, and that's why Saline liked him so much. So he had the hammer for some time before Saline's demise.