Results 91 to 120 of 1472
Thread: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-18, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
There are two that I feel could be interesting candidates and I'd like them to receive a fair evaluation, something which is more likely to happen if they aren't blatantly failing to meet the official shortlist of criteria as soon as we start. (Ha-Naga, which AFAIK, is Epic, has Wish, has yellow eyes, high Charisma, a Resistance ability that could explain why Miko/Belkar can't hurt him, etc. and may be able to explain sending Miko/Windstriker flying, by using some sort of telekinesis (the logic would be, that's what MitD has always used to grab stuff, since he has no hands); and the other is the Xenocrysth).
Any reason why that requirement should exist, beyond explaining hitting Miko/Windstriker in the Tower Scene? (Genuine question, I might have missed something.)
If not, then IMO FBS Condition #2 in its current wording is superior to a sheer STR requirement, and already covers that (in other words, FBS Condition #2 can be met either by sufficient physical strength, which by consensus is >=30 at the very least, or by other plausible means.)
Edit - just to clarify, by "current wording of FBS Condition #2", I meant the wording of the past few years up to a few minutes ago.Last edited by lio45; 2020-07-18 at 02:07 AM.
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2012
- Location
- Scotland
- Gender
-
2020-07-18, 06:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Mangholi Dask
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Last edited by Sir_Norbert; 2020-07-18 at 06:04 AM.
-
2020-07-18, 06:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I find it unlikely that the MitD would suggest a "who can hit the lightest" contest and then use some sort of telekinesis ability instead of just hitting Miko. But that's just me.
But a Strength below 30 probably shouldn't be disqualifying if there is another way to explain the Tower scene.
-
2020-07-18, 06:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2013
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
My best guesses - and they are just guesses - is that the MITD will be something even we non gamers can recognise. I wonder if he might be the son of one of the (allegedly extinct) Eastern Gods?
(I also wondered if “the other Dark One” might be related to the actual Dark One, but surely Redcloak would have recognised him. Ignore me, I’m rambling.)
-
2020-07-18, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
-
2020-07-18, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Europe
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Heck this thread got long quickly.
Let me list the sizes and strengths for some of the monsters currently in the FBS section. Can you help me out here? Originally I wanted to know if option F would leave too few entries in the FBS, but even apart from that, if size is so important to us, I hope you'll mention the sizes explicitly in the entries when you edit them.
Athasian Nightmare Beast: Huge, Str 30.
Glabrezu: Large, Str 31.
Hagunemnon (Protean): Large, Str 53.
Hunting Horror: maybe Huge?, Str 34.
Schlock Mercenary's Carbosilicate Amorph: Medium, Str ?
Slaad, White: Large, Str 36.
Slaad, Black: Huge, Str 42.
Uvuudaum: Large, Str 39.
Xenocrysth: Gargantuan, Str 43.
Zodar: Medium, Str 45.
So the Carbosilicate amorph is Large?
Update: edited the size to the Amorph, Slaad, Xenocrysth. Thanks, Grey Wolf.
Update 2020-07-19: added precise data to Slaad and strength to Xenocrysth, thanks Jasdoif.Last edited by b_jonas; 2020-07-18 at 09:44 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 07:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Not just you. Other than "because otherwise my suggestion won't explain the scene", I don't recall ever hearing a reason anywhere solid that'd explain why MitD would propose a hitting lightly game, and then proceed to use either strength-enhancing abilities or, if somehow "hitting" can really be translated to "spellcasting", and MitD, despite at that point still not being aware of his powers, tapping into it it on purpose, and selecting a ludicrously powerful level 8 or 9 spell. The sheer amount of stretching of meaning of language, and the jumping of the gun on MitD's development is well past the reasonableness horizon.
Please be aware of the standard issues with any kind of deity suggestion, as listed in 3b:
First, note that "a god" is not a specific proposal. There are hundreds to pick from, many with wildly different capabilities. Furthermore:
- If they have D&D stats, they will have Divine Ranks, which automatically gives them immunity to mind control (see Section 2c: Categories). This applies even to demigods (rank 1-5).
- They can speak every language - unsurprising they can talk
- Why would the SBGH think there is a market in selling deities?
- Any deity RC would consider appropriate for his team (Evil/Neutral ones) can Animate Dead, or copy it through Miracle.
Also, the circus scene is quite clearly saying MitD is not easy to recognize? Not to mention that when Rich decided to make it a guessing game, I'd imagine he'd had wanted to pick a particularly obscure monster, if there were any that fit the bill of needs, just so the game would last. Not suggesting that need was above other considerations such as "how it'll fit in the plot" but that, if anything, he'd had stayed away from recognisable creatures.
He can be. He can be ludicrously large, if fed enough, and he gains strength when he does. But no, he is Medium-ish, but I don't think that can be counted against him.
I have vague recollections that the white slaad is Huge and the black one is Large? Or maybe it was the other way round?
Xenocrysth is gargantuan.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2020-07-18 at 07:56 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-18, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Europe
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
In #661, right before the Escape, it looks like Xykon breaks the walls of that tower. Does he? It doesn't look like he just comes in on the existing hole.
How does Xykon do that? Was the wall weakened by the gate explosion, or by some wall-weakening effect from the MitD? Was he using a spell? What spell? A magic item? Are azurite walls weak for some reason? Does Xykon just have 30 Str somehow? Unlikely for a human skeletal lich, sorcerer, but not impossible. Do liches get a Str penalty from their age category or from the age Xykon was when he died? Did Rich specifically put that wall breaking in to imply something about breaking walls to geeks who overanalyze his comic?
Yes, I'm asking this because of the tower scene.
-
2020-07-18, 08:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
-
2020-07-18, 10:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Location
- Skyron, Andromeda
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I suppose this comes down to how you view the use of the FBS list to begin with. Personally, I would much rather have it stay at a small size so that it can be a useful introduction than to have it balloon even if it lists more potential options. In the end, it’s not as though one can never either look at 3e or just pay attention to discussion happening in the thread about other potential options. (You’ll note I do still support option A, mostly because I don’t think it would actually expand the FBS list much. Looking at Spirare/Jasdoif‘s list, I think it’s likely we’d only add a few options on there as, for instance, the Ha-Naga and Ghour remain to weak.)
If there are other criteria out there that would help page down the list, I’d certainly be open to them. Clearly, the size one until recently was the way the community preferred to do it, but it’s possible other options exist. CR is definitely not one I‘d use.
-
2020-07-18, 10:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
My vote: C > I > A > any of (G, H) > Z > E > B
Regarding the current strength criterion, my understanding was that strength 30+ is the only plausible explanation for the tower scene by thread consensus. So it was kind of implicit in requirement 2.Ares - Music and sounds system for roleplaying
Avatar by Rich Burlew.
-
2020-07-18, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- The sticks
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
First off, you did a great job going through the list. Seriously, nice work.
Sadly, it’s not a complete list. For starters, I don’t see the Nexus Dragon (which I may have even said at the time probably wasn’t worth including as an actual guess because it obviously wasn’t MitD, in part because it was like CR3500 or something and a multi-verse scale threat).
If we pass A, I’ll bet 10 galactic units I can come up with at least 3 candidates not on 3e that more or less meet the criteria but are obviously way too big. In a day, let’s say.
Edit - Oooh, the Immortals Handbook only came out in 2007. I guess that was the issue with the Nexus Dragon. It's got some wild monsters.
Edit2 -
Ok, I'm probably going to regret this again, but where is the reference to the Ha-Naga having yellow eyes? Neither the Epic Handbook nor the SRD mention it, and the eyes in the artwork are just regular, non-yellow, non-glowing eyes.Last edited by Crusher; 2020-07-18 at 12:16 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 12:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Location
- Europe
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
For the vote concerning reorganization of section 3a in first posts, my vote is D (remove FBS section) would be best, then F (destroy it so everyone finds it useless and ignores it), FI (same), E (remove but make popularity vote section), B, C, CI, Z, BI.
Last edited by b_jonas; 2020-07-18 at 12:22 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Ottawa, Canada
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I’m voting for option A (remove the size limitation, leave all else the same).
Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2020-07-18 at 01:02 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Now that it's pretty clear Z isn't going to win this time, it starts to be worth actually voting for the option I prefer over the ones I like slightly less, so I'll update my vote to
A, !ZOffer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Last edited by Jasdoif; 2020-07-18 at 02:22 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2020-07-18, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2017
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I'll place my votes for A > C > !E > !Z
The size restriction has caused nearly two threads worth of arguments. Let's just axe it. And if not, at least make it as lenient as possible.
E will be an utter headache to keep track of, and I disagree with only showcasing X amount of candidates anyways.
I'm missing something. Wouldn't any change to FBS criteria require us to reevaluate the candidates? I'm not seeing how option A is more strenuous than... well, any other option except I or Z.Last edited by Ortho; 2020-07-18 at 03:06 PM.
The Everyman's Guide to Taking Up Arms - A Guide to Fighters
Practical Magical Gadgetry - A Guide to Artificers
Avatar courtesy of the webcomic Aurora, drawn by Red
-
2020-07-18, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
AFAIK, no sort of Earthquake ability that the protean could use has been found. Regardless, I have turned it into a for the strength. I have also turned the language issue into a The beast thing is already a , which indicates there are points to be made on either side.
Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
Originally Posted by Squire Doodad
Originally Posted by Spirare
Originally Posted by Crusher
Originally Posted by Serpent KingdomsOriginally Posted by Minatures Handbook
Essentially, the Ha-naga missing the glowing eyes bit in the SRD and epic handbook is an odd omission, much like their lack of a language entry, as the mention of the burning hypnotic eyes is mentioned in the general description of naga in each other source.
-
2020-07-18, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
You can't really use "violates Occam's Razor" as an argument in a story where it's already been established that Probability is always going to bend over for the pleasure of The Plot like a cheap whore.
:P
Both Sleeplax and Protean "benefit" from this argument when it comes to the Escape - to paraphrase Ruck from his essay (without going back to look at his exact words), what's important here isn't that it's probable, merely that it's possible.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 04:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
I think any attempt to bypass community consensus in a community run thread is going to be received very poorly.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-18, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
More or less. If you feel "community consensus" is wrong, you can try to work on that, and maybe someday, succeed.
For example, I've firmly disagreed with FBS Condition #6 ("fits in the box") for years now. This vote looks like it's finally going to work, but it wasn't easy. This type of change pretty much always has to begin with "some people dare to question current community consensus".Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
-
2020-07-18, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
-
2020-07-18, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
By all mean, feel free to keep and rate your own personal opinion in whatever format you wish. I wouldnt hold my breath for being incorporated into the opening posts given that, at the end of the day, it is an opinion piece and speaks only for you.
Also, i notice that you apply one blanket rule as a plus for the Ha-naga, but insist that we ignore another one that would be a minus. The idea of your objectivity is not being well built here.Last edited by Keltest; 2020-07-18 at 05:00 PM.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-18, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- Ottawa, Canada
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Yeah, I’m confused by this too. Option A is “remove the size requirement from FBS”. That’s all. There’s no notable work associated with it. It’s a one-line edit. So it’s hard to understand why it, and no other options, is marked with the asterisk.
GreyWolf, you don’t need to look up every possibility; it’s just that when they are proposed, size will no longer count as a negative.Last edited by LadyEowyn; 2020-07-18 at 05:10 PM.
-
2020-07-18, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
At no point in the creation of this list was there an expectation that it would be in the OP.
That doesn't change the fact that Ruck's opinion piece is linked there though.
Also, i notice that you apply one blanket rule as a plus for the Ha-naga, but insist that we ignore another one that would be a minus. The idea of your objectivity is not being well built here.
-
2020-07-18, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-07-18, 05:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Since we're bringing up A Monster For Every Season; I would be remiss not to mention that while the water/guardian/dark/primordial naga do indeed have yellow eyes, the spirit naga has red eyes. (The bone naga has empty eye sockets with red lights, but I don't think that counts)
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
-
2020-07-18, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2019
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
Thank you!
Okay, so I did some research on each of these:
- Akvan Div Prince: Published in the Pathfinder Bestiay 3 in January
20112012, and not a Tome of Horrors import according to the license text. Came faaaar too late. - Corpse-Tearer Linnorm: Has DR/magic, which would be easily bypassed by Belkar's weapons. AC is less than the a nightcrawler, which the Order fought successfully (although it was a smaller version). Point is it isn't particularly impressive defensively from what I can tell.
- Fiendwurm: no explanation for the escape, O'Chul & Vaarsuvius did not arrive in the Abyss.
- Ghour: 28 Strength, insufficient for the tower scene and no alternative explanation.
- Ha-Naga: Insufficient Strength for the tower scene; telekinesis explanation is not sufficient to even throw a pony (let alone a horse that has been eating a lot of Heavenly Oats™ feed).
- Neothelid: Former FBS member; perhaps the most plausible candidate. Seems like it generally fits the FBS criteria. DR 5/- may not be sufficient (Miko is dealing at least 1d10+1 damage with her katanas, maybe more if she has a higher Strength than 13 or magic weapons, but she could have rolled badly).
Seems like the neothelid may be the only new entry. This does not include all the countless dragons though, that might change things up.Last edited by catagent101; 2020-07-18 at 06:20 PM. Reason: added a bit
mew
-
2020-07-18, 05:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: MitD XV: The Other Dark One
The dragons generally fail the circus scene do they not? By virtue of being entirely too iconic, generally.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”