Creative abilities - Minor conjuration

[Stealthscout]

My personal ‘project’ for a while has been doing write ups for players and DMs to help them play around with cantrips in ways to be fun without breaking the game. I took some time off of cantrips to do another brainstorming session with myself - the Minor Conjuration ability of the conjurer wizard subclass.

This one is far more dangerous than your average cantrip because there is so little supporting information. On top of that, this is a subclass feature so it can’t be taken and traded out if the DM hits it with the nerf bat the next session.


Tips for the everyone at the table:

• Be clear and consistent in advance – Whenever possible, make clear rulings based on interpretations, not a huge list of specific uses. Also do it early so nobody has to discuss laws of physics in a critical battle.
• It is a game, but not just a game – The Rule of Cool balances the Rule of Reason. Or yet another way, players need to have fun but might want to ‘forget’ a good idea if it would disrupt an important plot point they know the DM is relying on.
• The DM can always change a ruling, but be fair about it – If an interpretation turns out to be too abusable, it can be changed. But the players may need to compensate accordingly so don’t do it in combat and/or disallow a class ability on them suddenly.

[Stealthscout]

Ability Details

• 30’ Range
• Action to ‘cast’ at will, but doesn’t expend a slot. This is basically a unique cantrip
• Create one inanimate, non-magical item which you have seen before no larger than 3 feet on a side or 10 pounds in weight.
• It is ‘visibly magical’ and radiates light to 5 feet.
• Must appear in a location able to support it
• Disappears in 1 hour or if you use the ability again
• Disappears if it takes damage
• No reference to V,S,M components

From there we get some really, really important discussions.



Rulings that Apply:
Just about everything up there is open to interpretation. I have some rules of thumb below that can help with your table rules, but read them all before you make any decisions – especially the last one.

• Seen Before – I can see the sun - can I summon a bit of it? What about air, or is that invisible and therefore unsummonable? A good starting place is you need to know it well enough to very clearly picture it in your mind. There is a feat that makes this much more effective, too.
• One object – What about a chain (a series of objects)? Or maybe 10 bags of ball bearings? Do they have to be connected somehow or not? Important because one object can be mundane but multiple items have a bigger effect. A good rule is if you can buy or find it that way in nature, then you can summon it.
• What is ‘damage’? – There are plenty of ways to damage something other than HP. Does a single nick do it? Is a burning torch taking damage? What if I swallow part of the volume? Can you damage water, or does evaporation make it immediately disappear?
• Damage overflow – By RAW it disappears with damage, but if the damage is overwhelming does it pierce through to something behind it? I suggest it would block all the damage it would normally, then disappear afterwards but this could still be tricky.
• Able to support it – Solid objects are pretty simple, but liquids aren’t and just how are you are supposed to ‘support’ a bonfire? It would be thematic to summon water on a fire, but the same logic should apply to gasoline. Also, your hand may or may not be a viable option for ‘support’
• Expensive components, rare materials, or healing potions – DMs should say ‘no’ to this one as it is just too difficult to control. Evil DMs will just say ‘try it’ but any conjurer should automatically know there are ‘unknown dangers’ before they try.
• Can I harm others? – Interesting miss. Probably ‘yes’, but it has to be something that isn’t harmed in the process. Caltrops or burning coals, yes. Maybe not tripwire traps or other improvised weapons.

There is one more that takes a lot more room: Summoning specific items.
The best example is if you see a specific book once, can you then summon that book at will?

This one’s nasty, since going either way causes different problems and you have to be wackadoodle obsessed very focused to see them in advance. For instance:

If you summon specific items: The current status of any item the PC as seen matters. Is it on fire? Holding up something? Being held? Being watched? This also implies your ability can fail because it could be ‘out of play’ – either by destruction/changes to the item or by being in an unsummonable location/state. Some legal abuses:

• Disarm anyone at will, or unclothe them just as easily
• Disable any trap you can see (summon a critical cog)
• Collapse a wall by summoning a strategic support, pin, or block
• Open any door by summoning the lock and undoing the summon after you go through
• Recover any item from a gelatinous cube safely
• Summon the queen’s diary for nightly reading
• Summon the same queen’s gown for nightly… well… get creative
• Put your spellbook into a block of concrete in an ocean trench and just summon it when you need it.
• Put out a fire by summoning the fuel but not the fire itself
• Summon a large tapestry with explosive runes pre-cast on it

If you summon non-specific items: You don’t have to care about all the objects in the multiverse (whew!), but spamming becomes a problem. Can I summon a lot of something from studying a small quantity? How about a variation of something that must exist somewhere? Something that is currently ‘reacting’ somehow? Some more legal abuses:

• 10 lbs of poison dust after viewing a few grains of it
• Dozens of alchemal weapons for the party to throw every round
• Custom-shaped objects, since somewhere there has to be a rock of the right size
• Burning coal or lava
• Purified sodium metal or uranium just to see what happens
• Some alchemal equivalent of super glue the round before it solidifies

The best table rules I found for DMs are taken from 3rd edition sources.

Magical 'copy': You don’t actually summon the thing itself but an ‘imperfect image of its iconic form’. So the diary is unreadable but a weapon could be used. It doesn’t resolve all problems, but it means you don’t actually get the thing itself and can even explain the fragility and glowing effect. See some of the discussions below for how this works out.

Mimic the ‘Call Item’ power in the online psionics expansion: You summon one normal ‘unit’ of an item from ‘somewhere in space and time’. So a book would be a random book of indefinite size/type, water could be fresh/salty/tainted, get only one flask or barrel of oil, and you could spend eternity looking for the right key (but there is a chance) but you always get a reasonable object. The original power also limited it to a certain GP value as well, but that might be tricky to adjudicate – how much does fresh lava cost? That said it’s very flexible and plausible for the ‘conjurer’ style.


Some other common details that come up:
• Most liquids are around 5-6 lbs per gallon.
• A flask of ‘stuff’ comes in around a pint (or 16 per gallon), but are listed as 1lb in the PH. Talk to your DM for a reality check if you summon things outside of the flask


Tricks

• Make a list of known safe objects to use – this cuts down on unnecessary disagreements and can keep things from being overwhelming for you too.
• ‘If I can make it, I can summon it’ – Sometimes you want something specific, but start fighting about whether you have seen one before. Knowing the tools that could make it is good leverage that you could have created or studied it earlier
• Make a custom item in advance – To remove doubt, you can pay for a specific thing in advance so you can summon it later – especially rare but craftable items like alchemist fire or barricades. In pickup games just spend the money on one and re-summon it as needed.
• Light control – Emitted light keeps this from being as stealthy as it could be. 5’ radius is the light from a candle, which is pretty easy to cover up with some dirt or a tarp of some sort. Alternately, candles aren’t that noticeable on a sunny day so the object should be hard to spot that way too.

[Stealthscout]

All items and uses below include which rulings above that might apply to them and how rare they are.


Block of stone/metal:
Rules: Able to support it, Rare or expensive, What is damage
Rarity: Common, craftable. Rare but craftable if you have a certain shape in mind (3’ plate, horseshoe).
Note you should have a description in mind, such as ‘slab’, ‘block’, or ‘tombstone’. You are also limited to 10 lbs, which is about 1”x18”x18” for metal.

• Weigh down an object (paper, hatches)
• Fill a hole
• Cover up a pit with a metal grate
• Use as an anvil for blacksmithing on the road
• A ‘water wheel’ by placing it on a different rung of a wheel repeatedly. Issue: DMs will likely get annoyed quickly with what this can do to their world.
• These objects are durable,so you could drop them down into a hole or dangerous area to get a quick look around. Arguably safer than a light cantrip because you can summon it away from you. The small light radius could work for or against you, though.
• Wedge a door closed with the right shape
• Bonus: know multiple sizes/shapes for more custom purposes (hooks, holes, wedges, grating etc.)

Water:
Rules: Able to support it, what is damage
Rarity: Common
This would be a couple gallons of water with no container. If you need a container, make sure you can summon more than one kind (leaky ceramic, soft bladder). Also note that the water glows.

• Put out a fire
• Showers on the road
• Threaten or draw people to it. Glowing liquid is just as trustworthy in fantasy as it woudl be in real life - a clear danger. You could mix your summoned water into a larger pool for a light 'shimmer' instead.
• Keep people hydrated for a short while. Note it disappears afterwards, so you will be drinking constantly.
• DEhydrate people by giving them summoned water for a day. Note the light is a tip-off to them, though.
• Ruin papers or scrolls (temporarily or permanently)
• Wood swells if given the full hour. Breaks/seals doors and can be used to sunder hard rock with some wooden planks or spikes
• Surprising but not lethal – good for pranks
• Shallow pools of mud can make a surprising amount of noise
• Light – the whole thing radiates 5’ light, so let it spread over the area and light up a room. A poor man’s dancing lights spell but without the concentration and possibly a larger area of effect
• Variant – really hot water. Useful in many of the same ways, but could harm/melt things as well (see burning stuff below)
• Variant – lamp oil. As water, but sticky and slippery. Since it gives off light, could be used as a way to track someone even after they leave the area.
• Variant – crude oil. Very rare, but this has it all – smelly, sticky, slippery, flammable, bug repellant, nobody willingly walks in it, and even a major carcinogen if you want to go that far.

Hot/burning stuff (various kinds):
Rules: Able to support, what is damage, one object
Rarity: common (wood or heated stones) to rare (fresh lava)

• Instant campfire – dispellable at will, but doesn’t last all night
• Reliable firemaker, fast as most cantrips
• Melt ice quickly (how fast depends on what you summon)
• Creates hazardous terrain instantly
• Steam clouds if summoned in water. Arguably, scalding steam if you have a small area or intense heat like some lava
• Wood is light, so this is also an instant nonmagical bonfire that creates more light than a light spell (though not transportable and shorter duration)
• Burning coal gives more heat than a bonfire without near as much light, and doubles as an option for blacksmithing on the road. Adventurers would probably use it instead of wood if it was cheap enough and could just carry it around easily
• Lava slides around after summoning until it cools significantly – use it on a slope like under a door or ventilation pipes
• Variant – 10 lbs of alchemist fire outside of any bottles. This costs 500gp and some logistics to ‘view’ once, but could be banned by DMs depending on the house rulings, or just in general. That said, it would be mightily useful if you spend the money on it.

Wood crate or barrel, damp
Rules: What is damage, Damage overflow
Rarity: Common, craftable
Ideally something large enough to crawl in if needed, especially if gnome or halfling. Why wet? Fire resistance. This does increase the weight, so you have to be careful.

• ’Panic button’ at low level for a lot of environmental effects (burning buildings, poison sprays, etc.). The wetness gives you an extra round or two before it takes damage.
• Short term barricade, though don’t expect much from it. 1HP of damage and it goes away, but that may be all you need.
• Plausible cover in many urban locations (docks, warehouses, alleys), though only when dirty or during the day to cover up the light effect

Pile of straw:
Rules: What is damage, one object
Rarity: common
So cheap, you can summon multiple forms. For harder cover, get a bale of straw. A pile of straw is softer and larger, though.

• Timed right, soften a fall
• Great cover against arrows. They can’t harm straw, so it sticks around a long time
• Hide behind it. Only works on a bright sunny day to cover up the light effect, but allows you to plausibly hide in an open field at high noon.
• Pound for pound, probably the largest item you can create.
• Hinders 10’ hallways well and blocks small spaces completely. Few think to ‘attack the straw’, even if it glows.

Food (various types):
Rules: What is damage, one object
Rarity: common to rare, but mostly common
You have a lot of options and DMs aren't going to fight most of them. Some options are notable such as stinky cheeses or raw meat/fish.

• Bait or bribes for other creatures. Especially ones that can’t see the light effect, such as oozes or trackers that follow a scent.
• Feed yourself. This relies on the 'no damage' ruling a lot. Of course, this only lasts for one hour so if you want nutrition it likely won’t work anyhow, but a wine lover would just love this ability. Note if you summon specific items this gets really messy for everyone involved.
• Cover your scent. Literally use a red herring to throw a bloodhound off your tracks as it overpowers your scent. Probably give disadvantage, but only during that hour

10,000 ball bearings in a 3’ column:
Rules: What is ‘seen’, able to support, one object
Rarity: uncommon, craftable (probably special order)
Effectively 10 packets of 1,000 ball bearings stacked so they instantly fall down and spread around the room evenly. You would probably need to ‘craft’ them in this way to ‘see’ them (10gp, but a lot of extra for the stacking)

• Mimics a grease spell, but for a larger area and only on smooth floors
• Like water, this can spread soft light into a HUGE area quickly
• By watching them spread out carefully, it can show invisible creatures/illusionary walls more easily (maybe advantage?)
• Displace other liquids with a precise volume
• Would be totally cool to watch
• Variant: Caltrops. While damage-causing, they wouldn’t spread out nearly as much on their own. That said, a party could quickly spread them around to make a corridor far more dangerous.

Light chair, table, or davenport (chest of drawers):
Rules: What is damage
Rarity: common, craftable (moderate)
More useful than you would think. I’ve been giddy about the powers of rattan furniture since I found a 4th ed exploit using mage hand and an unseen servant to control battlefields with a minor action.

• Have the comfort of home while on the road. No reason short rests shouldn’t be comfortable, after all.
• Big enough to be an obstacle and moving it takes either an attack or the ‘Use an Item’ action, but most creatures won’t think to attack a chair. The best counter is to move around or jump over it, so best for making bottlenecks the first round of combat.
• Wedge a door shut. The average chair handles 300-400 lbs easily, so better than you would think.
• Support. Again, it supports more weight than you can usually hold up yourself, so use it as a support for an unstable crawlspace or to keep something out of shallow water.
• Quickly conceal something in the cushion. If you are using it as a chair, people will check your pockets and pack, but not the chair you are sitting on.
• Random creativity. Believe it or not, DMs like it when you surprise them in random ways. While you could stop a charging guard with a wooden barricade, why not do it with a colorfully painted and glowing child’s dresser?

Weapons:
Rules: What is damage?, One object, Overflow damage, rare and expensive components
Rarity: Common to Very Rare (siege weapons), Craftable
Pick one of most options in the PHB. Could also include ones you make up, though you wouldn’t have proficiency in them.

• Arguably a magical weapon, but just as arguably fragile enough for only one attack. Perhaps best if you stick to ammunition
• Can allow you to create items of specific materials (adamantine)
• Glowing magical weapons are a big deal in a low magic item world. It may give a bonus on intimidation checks
• Certain weapons have special qualities, such as a net. No loss if it is destroyed
• Dispellable = plausible deniability

Shield:
Rules: Overflow damage
Rarity: Common, Craftable
Not obvious, but useful. Shields give an AC bonus whether you have proficiency or not, and definitely weigh only 8 lbs.

• Keep it up for AC and drop on your round before it affects you negatively. Can help with that surprise round, at least. If one attack destroys it, you were going to drop it anyhow
• Can make it look like you some sort of mage gish-type with invisible mage armor instead of a squishy caster
• Note this is a shield but not armor. Armor takes a while to put on and can’t be dropped. Light armor is less effective than a shield anyhow
• Shields are tough and can also be considered a default for other objects – wedge a door like using a chair or use it as partial cover for the halfling rogue

Chemicals:
Rules: What is damage?, Support, rare and expensive components
Rarity: Rare to very rare
This would be anything you could carry around as an alchemist, but probably don’t want to when on the road. Small quantities would work for most cases, but some things are best in bulk. I suggest you pick up a proficiency in alchemy to ensure you can do more than one of these.

• A common fantasy trope is that adding just the right ingredient can make anything explode. Leverage that
• You could add something to negate a potion/material like adding baking soda to acid. Small quantities should also be hard to notice
• Pure grain alcohol is easy to produce for an alchemist or quality brewer. It burns the eyes, blocks scent, sanitizes anything, evaporates into to a massive cloud in minutes (mood light!), dissolves many adhesives, and make others drunk off the vapors given time. Oh, and it’s highly flammable too
• Concentrated acid is in the PHB. There should be no excuse for you relying on a thief to open a lock or disable a trap
• Antitoxin is another PHB item that you should summon as needed. You could even summon it in advance just in case, but don't summon anything else until after the combat ends
• Glowing food coloring or nasty flavorings can make a flask of water a mock potion
• If you have a lenient DM, make only part of a potion and hold back on the expensive final ingredient. Then add it just before drinking to effectively make a cheaper version of the same potion, or one that can’t be stolen by the enemy
• Many of the items from 3rd ed alchemy have a real-world equivalent. Just look some up and see if they could apply

Poison:
Rules: Unique objects, support, rare and expensive components
Rarity: Rare to very rare
This is usually the first thing people go to, but there are some serious limitations, usually around quantity and access to good poisons. Depending on the DM’s rulings, you may gain access to vats of poison.

• Poisoning food is limited to bright areas or exotic materials, but summoning it is extremely stealthy (no V,S,M components). A workaround is make the entire table lit up with faerie fire and you can poison anything there
• Push an injured person into a pool of it instead of injecting it via an attack
• Use it during interrogation. A slow acting poison is great, and can be unsummoned and re-summoned multiple times.
• Cover yourself with a vat of ingested poison if fighting a creature that can swallow whole. I suggest syrup of ipecac, which induces vomiting (save or be poisoned and vomit)
• Power gamer move, but if you summon specific items and an enemy is ‘oozing poison’, summon all of that poison in a safe location. No more poison on the enemy you are fighting. A variant could be all the stomach acid in the stomach you are encased in (remember, no S/V component)
• Issue: poison is rare, so your best bet is either proficiency in poisonmaking or planning on using monster venoms. Easier for the DM too.

Flour or dusts:
Rules: What is damage?
Rarity: Common

• The glow will reveal any invisible creatures quickly and can be turned into a small cloud with a quick kick
• Absorb liquids quickly. Many liquids are only dangerous because they flow around, but 10 lbs of flour absorbs a couple gallons and then is a cheap ‘mortar’ for the rest.
• Loose flour is very flammable
• Doubles as cheap glitter for a costume
• Variant: Ground or splintered glass. Less messy but very damaging if ingested or for creatures that don’t have shoes. See uses for diatomaceous earth on the web.
• Issue: humidity. You don’t get clouds of dust in many environments

PHB Items and Tools:
Rules: One item, What is damage?
Rarity: Common to Very rare
This is a list of miscellaneous items not covered elsewhere.

• Very safe, as this is probably what the creator intended
• Memorize the PHB equipment list and get anything you want on demand. The limiting factor is weight and if it gets damaged: mirrors, spyglass, magnifying glass, jewelry, block and tackle, etc.
• Some tools fall into this too, like lockpicks, cooking gear, etc. Some tools don’t need proficiency, so you could make some things up like swim fins, repelling gear, snow goggles or the like.
• Create a critical piece to something else that broke. Not a long term fix, but it can make your wagon work again, or fix your saddle
• Lantern. Trade out your light cantrip for this ability. Doubles as a fire starter in a pinch, though it does lock up the ability when adventuring in the dark
• Rope as ‘christmas lights’. The glow effect is dim but functional and with 50’ of the lights you can see larger areas fairly well without alerting everyone to your presence. Maybe useful for sentries, since you can watch a distinct line for changes
• Towels or sailcloth can be useful for anything from protecting something (for one round) absorbing dangerous substances, or to block wind
• Summoned clothing. While you are crying for someone to dispel it, you could have the most impressive ‘magical’ clothing at the party. Depending on the clothing, it could mimic a magical item.
• Extra useful for things that are fragile and risky to have adventuring (sunglasses, tissue paper, complex items like microscopes or sextants)
• Trick: have specialized (custom?) items that break down into 3’ sections. For instance, a 10’ pole or ladders
• Issue: breaking one piece of the set may remove the entire set. So if you break one piton the harness that came with it does too

Blood and gore:
Rules: What is damage?, support, one item
Rarity: Very, very rare…
Ok, intensely common for PCs with even a little experience. You can have a lot of variety with what you summon from pure blood, visceral chunks, blended chum, or a hybrid of them.

• Great for sudden intimidation factor
• Cover up evidence in a small area for a while
• Lure for carnivores with a sense of smell. They would prefer easy pickings over a fight, but end up disapointed
• Could be a realistic disguise enhancement for being a fiend
• Experiment with ‘feeling reeealllly evil’ in a hygenic way
• Sate a vampire for a short time. It is real blood of any species you choose, and PCs see a lot of humanoid blood. Watch the duration, though!

Pre-made wax symbols:
Rules: support, one item, unique items
Rarity: Custom crafted (extremely easy and cheap)
This one gets its own area because while in the real world a symbol or icon is informative, in a magical one they have Significance. Plaster an area with a few and people bring in the wizard to dispel.

• With calligraphy proficiency, you could mimic symbols of other spells but not spend hours making it when needed. Enemies could waste a lot of time bypassing it even if they are trained. Even if your PC runs past it, they would still be wary
• Party branding. A 5’ glowing symbol on a shield or sign can be seen a long way.
• Variant: summoning circle. Spend a lot of time making the perfect circle at home and summon as needed on the road. WARNING: if you don’t summon that specific circle, you run the risk of using an imperfect circle. That’s bad
• Variant: in eastern campaigns, small paper strips would work like runes, though they may need to be adhered to another object somehow

Paper or reed screen:
Rules: Support, Damage overflow
Rarity: Uncommon, Craftable
A 5’x5’ paper screen that you would see in old movies’ dressing rooms. This wouldn’t necessarily be common, but could be purchased in large cities. Note they are designed to work on even floors, so a DM may limit their use in some areas.

• Cover on demand. Only takes one hp to remove, but that is one attack that doesn’t target you.
• Protection. If the DM rules the wall takes even part of the damage, it may be your best option. Alternately, an attack may go right through it but get penalties because of soft cover
• Sneak Attacks. Rogues can quickly hide but still see through cracks in the cover. In the case of a paper wall, they could then get one shot off before it is dispelled
• Privacy on the road. Because you are travelling with PCs, not gentlemen

[Stealthscout]

Placeholder just in case

[Segev]

I would argue that "supported" means it is not, on its own weight/shape/consistency, going to fall, topple, spill, or otherwise significantly move just by virtue of having appeared.

So a liquid is "supported" if you summon it into its rest configuration on a surface (or in a container). This, combined with "three feet on a side," will severely limit how much you can summon onto a surface that is not sufficiently "container-like" to actually hold it.

Anything you can hold securely in your hand is "adequately supported" if you summon it to your hand - most weapons sized for you, any tools you're meant to use, and generally anything you would expect to be able to pick up and carry around.

Incidentally, there is no way you could "adequately support" any quantity of "the substance of the Sun" that would be useful in the manner most people seem to desire when bringing up that bit of potential cheese: the pressures are just not sufficient to contain it, so it will burst out. It thus cannot be conjured by this ability.

There's no reason you couldn't conjure a weapon and use it to harm somebody. I would define "damage" the same way D&D 5e tends to: takes hp damage. If the weapon isn't taking hp damage, it isn't broken. "Normal wear and tear" would thus also not unsummon your conjured tool or item.

Things you eat or drink, whether they are "unsummoned" or not by the act of consuming them, still vanish no more than an hour later. I would, for simplicity's sake, argue that this means they provide no real benefit in the short or long term, in a nutritional/hydration sense.

Items of intrinsic value due to their useful properties are a little harder to adjudicate. Should you allow poisons, venoms, acids, and the like? I actually am rather surprised no mention is made in the ability itself about using conjured items as material components; the 5th level spell creation explicitly calls out that using its items as material components causes the spell to fail.

[Specter]

Minor Conjuration would be much better if it weren't for the 'visibly magical' bit - then, we'd be able to create official letters, signets from noble families, royal symbols, invitations for parties, and so on. The social bits would be golden. Items could even be sold. A Charlatan Wizard could really have his way around.

As is, the best use I can think of is a key you've seen beforehand.

[Segev]

It's useful for creating weapons (which you can hand off), for creating sources of light (the "obviously magical" glow is a light source in and of itself, and you can make lit lanterns for better illumination), for making tools (shovels, ropes, chains, buckets), and even for making fluids useful for various purposes (magical glowing water is still water; drinking it may make no difference, but it can be used to extinguish a fire or to cool down).

Any object you need but don't have on hand can be willed into existence.



For fake letters and the like, you want illusory script, particularly in the hands of a level 6+ illusionist.

[Joe dirt]

I am currently playing a gnome conjurer... this is one of the tricky subclasses because of the minor creation feature. Because I am a tinker gnome I use my conjure creation ability to summon things in combination with my gnome features... for example I have used artificer lore with minor conjuration to summon small balloons and other devices not mentioned in the books but most effective tactic was to summon a small box 3x3 with vision holes to see out of and climb inside... this negates the first physical attack in a round as u are inside the box until someone does damage to it plus u can cast out of your portable fortress

Also u can use it to fuel the material component of many of your spells as long as those components dont specifically say its destroyed

[Segev]

Also u can use it to fuel the material component of many of your spells as long as those components dont specifically say its destroyed

Assuming this works (and I believe there's nothing in the RAW that would make it not do so), this can get you some serious cost savings on some of the more expensive (non-consumed) material components.

[Stealthscout]

Assuming this works (and I believe there's nothing in the RAW that would make it not do so), this can get you some serious cost savings on some of the more expensive (non-consumed) material components.

You have to be careful - a cautious DM would probably rule this out while a very mean DM would start messing around with spell effects. While the occasional use would be tolerated (raise dead when in the wilderness), any DM worth his salt won't like you doing the same thing to spam on glyphs of warding.

A quick test to see what your DM does is to summon a healing potion and you will get a really fast idea of what to expect.

[Joe dirt]

You have to be careful - a cautious DM would probably rule this out while a very mean DM would start messing around with spell effects. While the occasional use would be tolerated (raise dead when in the wilderness), any DM worth his salt won't like you doing the same thing to spam on glyphs of warding.

A quick test to see what your DM does is to summon a healing potion and you will get a really fast idea of what to expect.

Material components are non magical.... a healing potion is magical and therefore cannot be summoned via minor conjuration

[Vogonjeltz]

•Seen Before – I can see the sun - can I summon a bit of it? What about air, or is that invisible and therefore unsummonable? A good starting place is you need to know it well enough to very clearly picture it in your mind. There is a feat that makes this much more effective, too.
•One object – What about a chain (a series of objects)? Or maybe 10 bags of ball bearings? Do they have to be connected somehow or not? Important because one object can be mundane but multiple items have a bigger effect. A good rule is if you can buy or find it that way in nature, then you can summon it.
•What is ‘damage’? – There are plenty of ways to damage something other than HP. Does a single nick do it? Is a burning torch taking damage? What if I swallow part of the volume? Can you damage water, or does evaporation make it immediately disappear?
•Damage overflow – By RAW it disappears with damage, but if the damage is overwhelming does it pierce through to something behind it? I suggest it would block all the damage it would normally, then disappear afterwards but this could still be tricky.
•Able to support it – Solid objects are pretty simple, but liquids aren’t and just how are you are supposed to ‘support’ a bonfire? It would be thematic to summon water on a fire, but the same logic should apply to gasoline. Also, your hand may or may not be a viable option for ‘support’
•Expensive components, rare materials, or healing potions – DMs should say ‘no’ to this one as it is just too difficult to control. Evil DMs will just say ‘try it’ but any conjurer should automatically know there are ‘unknown dangers’ before they try.
•Can I harm others? – Interesting miss. Probably ‘yes’, but it has to be something that isn’t harmed in the process. Caltrops or burning coals, yes. Maybe not tripwire traps or other improvised weapons.

A bit of an object isn't an object.
A phenomena is NOT an object. i.e. Mist is not an object.

A link is an object unto itself, as is a chain or necklace, or chair (even though it might have components). The chain or necklace can't be split up, because that is damaging the object.

Hit points aren't meat, damage is used just as it would be in real life. If you conjured a vase, and it gets chipped, it disappears. etc.

Fluids don't qualify as objects.

The best example is if you see a specific book once, can you then summon that book at will?

Provided the character remembers the item, yes. Would it contain the appropriate text? Not unless they remembered the contents, I'm thinking they would need the feat that allows recall for that, otherwise it's a fairly serious Int check to get specific details right.

There is one more that takes a lot more room: Summoning specific items.
The best example is if you see a specific book once, can you then summon that book at will?

This one’s nasty, since going either way causes different problems and you have to be wackadoodle obsessed very focused to see them in advance. For instance:

If you summon specific items: The current status of any item the PC as seen matters. Is it on fire? Holding up something? Being held? Being watched? This also implies your ability can fail because it could be ‘out of play’ – either by destruction/changes to the item or by being in an unsummonable location/state. Some legal abuses:
•Disarm anyone at will, or unclothe them just as easily
•Disable any trap you can see (summon a critical cog)
•Collapse a wall by summoning a strategic support, pin, or block
•Open any door by summoning the lock and undoing the summon after you go through
•Recover any item from a gelatinous cube safely
•Summon the queen’s diary for nightly reading
•Summon the same queen’s gown for nightly… well… get creative
•Put your spellbook into a block of concrete in an ocean trench and just summon it when you need it.
•Put out a fire by summoning the fuel but not the fire itself
•Summon a large tapestry with explosive runes pre-cast on it

The ability isn't summoning an object, it's creating a temporary magical duplicate of a seen object.

i.e. You have been jailed, and see the keys the jailer has used to lock and unlock doors and chains. He leaves to go on his round, you conjure up the key and remove the chain from your ankle, then conjure another key for the door and leave, and so on. At no point has anything else about the world changed, the Wizard has merely replicated the seen object.

Nothing else pertains.

If you summon non-specific items: You don’t have to care about all the objects in the multiverse (whew!), but spamming becomes a problem. Can I summon a lot of something from studying a small quantity? How about a variation of something that must exist somewhere? Something that is currently ‘reacting’ somehow? Some more legal abuses:
•10 lbs of poison dust after viewing a few grains of it
•Dozens of alchemal weapons for the party to throw every round
•Custom-shaped objects, since somewhere there has to be a rock of the right size
•Burning coal or lava
•Purified sodium metal or uranium just to see what happens
•Some alchemal equivalent of super glue the round before it solidifies

No.

Reasons in order:
1) Multiple grains are not singular objects per use of the word "multiple".
2) Dozens is again "multiple". Liquids are not objects. Flask + contents = multiple. Damage = Disappeared.
3) Object is one that has been seen, not one that could exist.
4) Burning would be damaged, Lava is liquid.
5) Damaged disappears. Even assuming one could find such elements they are auto-damaging to themselves.
6) Liquids aren't objects.

[King539]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned summoning 10 pounds of the sun?

[Tanarii]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned summoning 10 pounds of the sun?

Because the sun is a single object?

[Christian]

Assuming this works (and I believe there's nothing in the RAW that would make it not do so), this can get you some serious cost savings on some of the more expensive (non-consumed) material components.

This is going to be very tricky. What makes a diamond worth 500 GP and therefore suitable for powering a Raise Dead spell? Is it just being tetrahedral crystalline carbon of a certain size and purity? 'Worth' normally means 'what someone would be willing to pay for' something, and there's a lot of factors that go into gemstone valuations. Including, I'd imagine, whether the stone has the subtle glow indicating that it's going to evaporate in an hour. "Diamonds are forever," says your spell as it fizzles, "so I'm pretty sure that ain't no diamond."

[Stealthscout]

Just keeping it on topic here, but the intent was to bring out specific rulings that DMs should think about in their game - not make a universal judgement for all games. Then maybe brainstorm any common but generally useful conjurations.

A good example is a ruling that you summon unique objects. This would make material components more reasonable, since you have to have at least minimal access to a 500 gp gem for raise dead. That said, you can 'steal' that gem at will and effectively destroy them as well which is going to piss off someone.

The ability isn't summoning an object, it's creating a temporary magical duplicate of a seen object.

...
Nothing else pertains.

Good example of my point. This is a ruling for one person's table and looks a lot like that '3rd ed monster summoning' ruling I had in the original posting. It does solve many issues, but can have side effects too, such as being able to duplicate objects with exacting detail like you did. Keys are easy - anyone got a few to toss out?

A bit of an object isn't an object.
A phenomena is NOT an object. i.e. Mist is not an object.

...
Fluids don't qualify as objects.

These are rulings I wouldn't have anticipated, but interesting to me. I would have argued that mist is evaporated water, so should be valid at least. On your table, what would you say about a flask of water?

1. Can you summon it? (Two 'things', one of which is a fluid)
2. Could I control the exact amount of water in the flask?
3. Could I pour it out without un-summoning it?
4. Could I summon a partially cracked container so it leaks as soon as it is summoned?

Don't think I'm saying you are wrong - I am interested in why you rule this way and any issues it caused you.



Oh! and I added a couple new items - 10lbs of ball bearings and food.

[Tanarii]

Just keeping it on topic here, but the intent was to bring out specific rulings that DMs should think about in their game - not make a universal judgement for all games.

Yes, but there's a difference between RAW, RAI, and DM Rulings.

JC has already made clear in his Minor Illusion rules that 'object' includes things that are actual objects. "An illusory object made by minor illusion is meant to be like a stool or a rock, not an atmospheric effect." http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/feat...wers-july-2016 This certainly has implications for RAI of Minor Conjurcation too.

However, there is still room for DM Rulings on liquids or fire or something like that being 'objects'. Although his use of stool and rock as examples definitely can be interpreted to mean "single solid-state object".

[Segev]

Atmospheric effects would qualify as "phenomena," which are distinct from "objects" as illustrated by silent image's spell description. In calling out that silent image can create both objects and phenomena, it makes it clear that minor illusion cannot create phenomena (as it can only create objects).

Minor Conjuration would thus not be able to conjure phenomena, because it can only conjure objects.


I would dispute that liquids are inherently not objects. If you have a container, you can conjure water into it. The uses are sharply limited, though, by the "no damage" clause, even if one is very generous and decrees that splashing it out everywhere isn't "damage." Also by the duration; no thirst-quenching, here.

[Stealthscout]

Good answer and good link. RAI/RAW is just another word for 'from a public set of table rules'.

Note the wording he chose isn't unbreakable dogma warning about game balance problems (emphasis mine):
Could minor illusion create a fog cloud? If so, would shooting an arrow through it cancel the illusion?
An illusory object made by minor illusion is meant to be like a stool or a rock, not an atmospheric effect.


So... I just summon an illusory mist creature and you have the same situation. Then the DM who wants a gritty reality game is angry with a player who wanted to play around with a cool ability and the game ends during round 2 of combat. Then they switch places and the DM-now-player gets upset that people 'aren't playing the game right'. We see it all the time.

My point is that I want a discussion about the rulings DMs will have to consider and point out dangers or opportunities with those rulings. I don't want one set of rulings come out and trump everyone else's discussion.

By definition, nobody can be right anyway.

[Segev]

Actually, all the spells that can make illusory creatures can also make illusory phenomena, so the distinction is meaningless from that perspective.

[Stealthscout]

Maybe a follow-up concept. Rulings are also made in reponse to flavoring the game.

In a knights of the round game, I might make the ability be limited in scope to objects. This makes more sense and fits the theme.

In a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants Eberron game I might include a lot more of those 'semi-magical' materials so long as you have extensive knowledge of them. Sailwood items or vats of specific poisons are allowed, but only if you are from the correct house.

In a comedy pickup game where we have three conjuration wizards, I may make a special rule that they can re-skin materials or make novel items that have never existed so each character can get as creative as possible.

Each of these is valid, but totally different rulings. The only way I can mess this up is by not telling the players what I am expecting or the players holding out on a really good but shady idea until a critical moment and I have to stop the game to annoy people.

I want a thread to discuss the glory and follies of these rulings.

[Tanarii]

My point is that I want a discussion about the rulings DMs will have to consider and point out dangers or opportunities with those rulings. I don't want one set of rulings come out and trump everyone else's discussion.

By definition, nobody can be right anyway.

I'm not sure I agree with that last part at all. But I do take your point. However, if there are potentially relevant SA rules I think it's worth noting them. Even if they're likely to be overruled. But certainly I can appreciate your point of view, many people (DEFINITELY including myself) argue their interpretations as if they are #Truth

[Vogonjeltz]

Good example of my point. This is a ruling for one person's table and looks a lot like that '3rd ed monster summoning' ruling I had in the original posting. It does solve many issues, but can have side effects too, such as being able to duplicate objects with exacting detail like you did. Keys are easy - anyone got a few to toss out?

Away from book, but if I recall correctly the ability itself is specific that it's creating an object, not pulling it from somewhere, hence not a ruling, but the rule.

If you have the text at hand, we could refer to that.

These are rulings I wouldn't have anticipated, but interesting to me. I would have argued that mist is evaporated water, so should be valid at least. On your table, what would you say about a flask of water?
1.Can you summon it? (Two 'things', one of which is a fluid)
2.Could I control the exact amount of water in the flask?
3.Could I pour it out without un-summoning it?
4.Could I summon a partially cracked container so it leaks as soon as it is summoned?


Don't think I'm saying you are wrong - I am interested in why you rule this way and any issues it caused you.



Oh! and I added a couple new items - 10lbs of ball bearings and food.

In part it's a question of terms, objects in D&D are differentiated from phenomena and even building structures; The Illusion line of spells also works off of these distinctions, Minor Illusion creates an object, not a creature or phenomena, whereas Silent Image can (specifically) create any of the three.

So, a character could create a flask, even a cracked one I suppose (although it might be fragile enough to suffer damage easily and disappear), but it would necessarily be empty (contents would be creating things outside the scope of the ability and in a greater number than the ability allows).

[krugaan]

1) any non-magical item in the phb which fits the volume and weight requirements (manacles!)

2) a wedge you can use to make stuck doors

3) glowing rock ... see exactly how deep that hole is!

4) studying spellbooks under the blanket at night

5) unlimited disposable padlocks! (with no key, unfortunately, but hey, they only last an hour anyway)

6) tools for any occasion!

7) fake grenades / radioactive waste!

8) glowing masks for Halloween! (scary robes not included)

9) fake ioun stone with unseen servant (not that they can be destroyed anymore)

[Stealthscout]

2) a wedge you can use to make stuck doors

3) glowing rock ... see exactly how deep that hole is!

5) unlimited disposable padlocks! (with no key, unfortunately, but hey, they only last an hour anyway)

7) fake grenades / radioactive waste!

Interesting ideas. I added these above, and am working on a PHB tools.


And sidenote - I love your sig.

[Joe dirt]

question I had on this ability is... what is the definition of "see"?

What I mean is if u had crafting skill would u allow someone to roll their craft items skill to "see" an object in their mind and then summon it?

Likewise would u allow someone to read the mind of someone thinking about an object and then summon what u seen?

What if u saw an accurate illusion of an object does that count as "seeing"

Here is the legal definition of "see" and as u see the see can also mean to visualize and this is more open to interpretation than the literal use of the word

see1
sē/
verb
verb: see; 3rd person present: sees; past tense: saw; gerund or present participle: seeing; past participle: seen
1.
perceive with the eyes; discern visually.
"in the distance she could see the blue sea"
synonyms: discern, spot, notice, catch sight of, glimpse, catch/get a glimpse of, make out, pick out, spy, distinguish, detect, perceive, note; More
informallay/set eyes on;
literarybehold, descry, espy
"he saw her running across the road"
be or become aware of something from observation or from a written or other visual source.
"I see from your appraisal report that you have asked for training"
be a spectator of (a film, game, or other entertainment); watch.
"I went to see King Lear at the Old Vic"
synonyms: watch, look at, view; catch
"I saw a documentary about it last week"
visit (a place) for the first time.
"see Alaska in style"
refer to (a specified source) for further information (used as a direction in a text).
"elements are usually classified as metals or non-metals (see chapter 11)"
experience or witness (an event or situation).
"I shall not live to see it"
be the time or setting of (something).
"the 1970s saw the beginning of a technological revolution"
observe without being able to affect.
"they see their rights being taken away"
find good or attractive qualities in (someone).
"I don't know what I see in you"
2.
discern or deduce mentally after reflection or from information; understand.
"I can't see any other way to treat it"
ascertain after inquiring, considering, or discovering an outcome.
"I'll go along to the club and see if I can get a game"
synonyms: find out, discover, learn, ascertain, determine, establish
"I must go and see what Victor is up to"
regard in a specified way.
"he saw himself as a good teacher"
foresee; view or predict as a possibility.
"I can't see him earning any more anywhere else"
synonyms: foresee, predict, forecast, prophesy, anticipate, envisage, picture, visualize
"I see trouble ahead"
used to ascertain or express comprehension, agreement, or continued attention, or to emphasize that an earlier prediction was correct.
"it has to be the answer, don't you see?"
3.
meet (someone one knows) socially or by chance.
"I went to see Caroline"
synonyms: encounter, meet, run into/across, come across, stumble on/across, happen on, chance on; More
informalbump into
"about a year later, I saw him in town"
meet, meet up with, get together with, socialize with
"they see each other from time to time"
meet regularly as a boyfriend or girlfriend.
"some guy she was seeing was messing her around"
synonyms: go out with, date, take out, be involved with; More
informalgo steady with;
datedcourt
"he's seeing someone else now"
consult (a specialist or professional).
"you may need to see a solicitor"
synonyms: consult, confer with, talk to, speak to, have recourse to, call on, call in, turn to, ask
"you'd better see a doctor"
give an interview or consultation to.
"the doctor will see you now"
4.
escort or conduct (someone) to a specified place.
"don't bother seeing me out"
synonyms: escort, accompany, show, walk, conduct, lead, take, usher, attend
"he saw her to her car"
attend to; provide for the wants of.
"I'll see to Dad's tea"
ensure.
"Lucy saw to it that everyone got enough to eat"
synonyms: ensure, make sure/certain, see to it, take care, mind
"see that no harm comes to him"
5.
(in poker or brag) equal the bet of (an opponent).

[Stealthscout]

question I had on this ability is... what is the definition of "see"?

What I mean is if u had crafting skill would u allow someone to roll their craft items skill to "see" an object in their mind and then summon it?

Likewise would u allow someone to read the mind of someone thinking about an object and then summon what u seen?

What if u saw an accurate illusion of an object does that count as "seeing"

Probably depends on a lot of things, starting with the quality of your 'seeing' and then that sticky 'unique item or just conjuring a copy' thing that was debated earlier.

Quality of seeing
If the DM wants to keep things simple, they will probably make a quick judgement call if it should be allowed. This can be a trap for undisciplined people, as they tend to be bias to what they want to do. Around here we call that bad DMing.

If they want to be more accurate, how effectively you see something is probably a perception check and/or an intelligence check to keep it in your head. If you have a long time or the item is relatively simple (say, a symbol), you get a low DC. The DCs go to the sky from there (a multi-pronged triple key for a unique lock) along with the DC debates (what if I am a locksmith? a metalworker of any kind? I saw it three seconds twice, so I should be able to roll twice!, etc.). That could be quick or take hours depending on how consistent you are and how desperate your players are to get the right object.


Unique item
If you actually summon an item, it depends on how your DM rules on the uniqueness of an item. Probably you are just fine if you actually see it well enough to recognize it (see above). If you conjure it (a 'magical copy'), you are all the better and could easily argue that you can create anything you are skilled in making.


You actually brought up a fun one - can you summon an imaginary illusionary item? That is, it doesn't actually exist anywhere but as an illusion. If you are summoning items, your ability would fail (though you should know why), and if you are conjuring a copy you could in theory create objects that don't actually exist anywhere. I could see abuses where a crafty wizard could use minor illusion to show you any/all parts of something they can create and then you conjure a physical prototype of the object. If you can get your hands on a knowledge cleric with minor illusion, think of the possibilities. You could summon tools for them to create customized objects on demand!

I just knew there was a way to abuse that ruling. There always is.

[Joe dirt]

Probably depends on a lot of things, starting with the quality of your 'seeing' and then that sticky 'unique item or just conjuring a copy' thing that was debated earlier.

Quality of seeing
If the DM wants to keep things simple, they will probably make a quick judgement call if it should be allowed. This can be a trap for undisciplined people, as they tend to be bias to what they want to do. Around here we call that bad DMing.

If they want to be more accurate, how effectively you see something is probably a perception check and/or an intelligence check to keep it in your head. If you have a long time or the item is relatively simple (say, a symbol), you get a low DC. The DCs go to the sky from there (a multi-pronged triple key for a unique lock) along with the DC debates (what if I am a locksmith? a metalworker of any kind? I saw it three seconds twice, so I should be able to roll twice!, etc.). That could be quick or take hours depending on how consistent you are and how desperate your players are to get the right object.


Unique item
If you actually summon an item, it depends on how your DM rules on the uniqueness of an item. Probably you are just fine if you actually see it well enough to recognize it (see above). If you conjure it (a 'magical copy'), you are all the better and could easily argue that you can create anything you are skilled in making.


You actually brought up a fun one - can you summon an imaginary illusionary item? That is, it doesn't actually exist anywhere but as an illusion. If you are summoning items, your ability would fail (though you should know why), and if you are conjuring a copy you could in theory create objects that don't actually exist anywhere. I could see abuses where a crafty wizard could use minor illusion to show you any/all parts of something they can create and then you conjure a physical prototype of the object. If you can get your hands on a knowledge cleric with minor illusion, think of the possibilities. You could summon tools for them to create customized objects on demand!

I just knew there was a way to abuse that ruling. There always is.

Well the reason the definition of see is important is because its a synonym for the word visualize and one definition of visualize is to form a mental image of; imagine

So yes this ability could be extremely powerful but mileage still depends on GM.

The way I see it u could literally summon anything like a weak form of a green lantern ring as long as u rolled good on ur int check to craft it as a prototype

[Stealthscout]

Last shameless entry.

Entered a few more ideas and updated some wording for the summoning of 'magical copies' which was discussed earlier.

[GeerdunBigreeg]

Counter point to the concept of it being impossible/difficult to conjure a key/something unique of that nature.

I've got my 5e PHB right here. I quote:

"It's form must be that of a nonmagical object that you have seen."

Therefore, it is impossible to fail to conjure the key, even if you only caught a glimpse of it from across the room. Why? Because if you were to fail to conjure the key, the form would NOT be that of a nonmagical object that you have seen. You never saw a close-but-flawed representation of said key. You saw the key. That which you conjure, by virtue of the language, must be that which you saw.

As such, if you see a book, and you go to conjure it, its form is that of the book you saw. Even if you never even opened it. If the pages inside your conjured book were blank, its form would not be of a nonmagical object you have seen. You can't conjure an object you haven't seen.

If you saw a closed envelope, and you conjured that object, you could open the conjured envelope and read the letter, because the envelope that you saw had that letter in it.

To the "this power is a green lantern thing", that's contrary to the PHB. By the PHB, "you can use your action to conjure up an inanimate object in your hand or on the ground in an unoccupied space that you can see within 10 feet of you."

It later specifies restrictions regarding the form of said object , but you don't conjure "the form of an object", you conjure the object itself. Water is wet, wood is wood. A diamond is a diamond, not "a magical conjuration that looks like a diamond", unless you saw a magical conjuration that looked like a diamond, which is what you have chosen to conjure.

Cheers, all.