Let's Build some PC Armies

[Aussiehams]

It's probably not the best, but in the right terrain Wood Elf Rogues seem like they would be pretty hard to deal with.

[Catullus64]

It's probably not the best, but in the right terrain Wood Elf Rogues seem like they would be pretty hard to deal with.

At any level other than 1 I would agree with you; Cunning Action would make them absolutely terrifying as a guerrilla force. But at level 1, I think the Wood Elf force would be better off as Rangers. Sure, slightly fewer skills and no Sneak Attack, but in exchange you have expert foraging, massive mobility, better HP, and the possibility of starting with better armor (scale mail).

Has anyone (anyone who's still trying to come up with fun PC army concepts and not trying to Win D&D, that is) thought of anything that could be done with an army of Bards? The idea of the world's largest symphony charging each other up with harmonies is too cool to pass up, but at 1st level Bards lack for good equipment choices.

Maybe, some day in the distant future, I'll post a similar thread to this one, but with 3rd level characters. While that would tempt people even more to make overly theory-crafted one-trick armies, it would allow more interesting considerations for army compositions of classes that receive subclasses at later levels.

[Xetheral]

900 Wood Elf Fighters with Archery style. 600 of them have Chain Mail, Shield, and Longbow, plus Light Crossbow with 20 Bolts. 300 have Leather, Longbow, 20 Arrows, 2 Rapiers, and Light Crossbow with 20 Bolts. Arrows and extra rapiers get shared out across the army.

80 more High Elf Fighters with Mold Earth (30), Shape Water (10), Message (10), Minor Illusion (10), Create Bonfire (10), Light (10). Similar equipment mix as above.

20 Drow. Same equipment mix.

Wood Elves are the main combat force thanks to higher movement rate (35') which lets them actually chase down other armies and force them to engage, plus the ability to break contact and disengage when outnumbered. Mask of the Wild enhances stealth opportunities.

The High Elves and drow are the sappers, special ops, and nighttime specialists.

Everybody proficient in Acrobatics, Stealth, Perception.

If Eberron is an option swap all 300 of the leather-armored Wood Elves for House Canaith humans, for Magic Weapon.

If some of the high elves take Mending you can repair arrows for reuse.

[MaxWilson]

If some of the high elves take Mending you can repair arrows for reuse.

Good point. Although Mending is probably not the only way to fix a broken arrow, or make more arrows, and under normal circumstances I'd be quite surprised if Wood Elves were not capable of making their own arrows--so it all depends on how stringently that "starting equipment only" gets applied.

Anyway, if Mending turns out to be the only way to fix arrows in this campaign, could reduce Mold Earth to 20 and take 10 Mending, which at 600 repaired arrows per hour of work ought to be plenty.

Has anyone (anyone who's still trying to come up with fun PC army concepts and not trying to Win D&D, that is) thought of anything that could be done with an army of Bards? The idea of the world's largest symphony charging each other up with harmonies is too cool to pass up, but at 1st level Bards lack for good equipment choices.

Maybe, some day in the distant future, I'll post a similar thread to this one, but with 3rd level characters. While that would tempt people even more to make overly theory-crafted one-trick armies, it would allow more interesting considerations for army compositions of classes that receive subclasses at later levels.

Forgive me, but who are you talking about here in bold? I don't wish to give offense and if you object to my contributions (which aren't about trying to "win D&D" at all but are about how to build a versatile and broadly-effective army, a key component of which is the ability to win pitched battles) I would just as soon take my attention elsewhere. Before I judge hastily though I must ask--who are you aiming to wound with these words?

[col_impact]

Good point. Although Mending is probably not the only way to fix a broken arrow, or make more arrows, and under normal circumstances I'd be quite surprised if Wood Elves were not capable of making their own arrows--so it all depends on how stringently that "starting equipment only" gets applied.

Anyway, if Mending turns out to be the only way to fix arrows in this campaign, could reduce Mold Earth to 20 and take 10 Mending, which at 600 repaired arrows per hour of work ought to be plenty.



Forgive me, but who are you talking about here in bold? I don't wish to give offense and if you object to my contributions (which aren't about trying to "win D&D" at all but are about how to build a versatile and broadly-effective army, a key component of which is the ability to win pitched battles) I would just as soon take my attention elsewhere. Before I judge hastily though I must ask--who are you aiming to wound with these words?

Can't be talking about me, my army isn't theory-crafted. It's based on a build developed and implemented in a D&D/Warhammer style game that is in alpha. So my contributions are based on actual game experience with game play under somewhat similar game parameters.

However, I am indeed shamelessly building to win. If you aren't building to win I think you miss the point of war, possibly. Anyway, that is just my opinion. If you want to build fluffy for war, go right ahead.

[Catullus64]

Forgive me, but who are you talking about here in bold? I don't wish to give offense and if you object to my contributions (which aren't about trying to "win D&D" at all but are about how to build a versatile and broadly-effective army, a key component of which is the ability to win pitched battles) I would just as soon take my attention elsewhere. Before I judge hastily though I must ask--who are you aiming to wound with these words?

Certainly my words were not directed at you; what I've read of your contributions seem to be in the right spirit. I simply noticed that a large section of the thread seems to have taken on a very acrimonious tone, and that many people were using the language of "my army will beat your army" and rather than "here are the advantages that this army has in a general sense." In other words, some folks seem more concerned with demonstrating their superior mastery of the D&D rules than in using those rules as a basis to create fun army concepts. I get that that is what is more fun for some, it's simply not an aspect of the conversation that interests me.

The fact that 10+ posts were dedicated to debating whether a Firebolt can blast through stone is, I think, rather illustrative of what I was criticizing. (Incidentally, "Firebolts can't melt through stone walls." needs to become a meme.)

As to my comment about "overly theory-crafted, one-trick armies", I think that it's all too easy, when we're using the D&D rules as a creative framework, to want to think of a single all-powerful combo or setup that will provide victory. I am in no way an expert in warfare, but it doesn't take expertise to believe that such an approach is likely to create glaring weaknesses in a force when circumstances don't align with your army's specialized purpose. Build an army that relies too heavily on Sleep and you'll be in real trouble when you come up against elves (just an example.)

[Kane0]

I’m tempted to go with fighters because second wind is amazing pretty much doubling your health if you dont die in one turn, probably with races that grant cantrip access. However a variety of clerics would be equally nasty with all those domain options to choose from.

Shame we cant make level 3 armies, i remember a campaign where we once operated a garrison and level 3 soldiers were the most fun to build.

[col_impact]

I am in no way an expert in warfare, but it doesn't take expertise to believe that such an approach is likely to create glaring weaknesses in a force when circumstances don't align with your army's specialized purpose. Build an army that relies too heavily on Sleep and you'll be in real trouble when you come up against elves (just an example.)

Very very true. That is why Jedi Academy is based on maximized diversity as a fundamental design principle. It has access to every cantrip, every wizard spell, every race, every background.

[TIPOT]

I think a ranger army might not be the worst thing ever assuming both armies aren't fighting in an empty void. Go aarakocra mostly and just use guerrilla warfare until the enemy starves to death. Natural explorer gives some neat benefits which never come up in an actual game but assuming you play it all by the book are massive bonuses to living off the land and long term survival.

Longbows give an engagement rage of 150ft/600ft and aarakocra have insane overland travel speed with their flight.

[MaxWilson]

Has anyone (anyone who's still trying to come up with fun PC army concepts and not trying to Win D&D, that is) thought of anything that could be done with an army of Bards? The idea of the world's largest symphony charging each other up with harmonies is too cool to pass up, but at 1st level Bards lack for good equipment choices.

I've been thinking about Bard equipment and spell lists and it's a conundrum indeed. On the one hand, Bards have great tools for deception and urban combat: massed Disguise Person, Silent Image, Charm Person, etc. They even have good tools for combat such as Bardic Inspiration, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Sleep, etc.

But their equipment list is terrible. Leather armor, a dagger, and one simple weapon or rapier or longsword, plus whatever comes from background or can be scrounged during play.

The best strategy I can come up with is for the bulk of the bards to be Changeling Charlatans (Cha 18 Dex 14 is one possibility, Cha 16 Dex 16 another) and play like... Well, I hesitate to say "Jedi army" :) so instead I'll say Darloks, or "GURPS Black Ops Intel Ops". The combination of Disguise Self for short-term costume changes, and Changeling shapeshifting for voice and longer-term disguises could potentially be a nightmare to fight. Imagine the security nightmare that results when every time you split your army (sending 100 men out on patrol, for instance) you have to worry about a *completely different* 100 men coming back to replace them, especially if those 100 men can take out 200-400 of yours via Sleep spells. You can deal with some of it via passwords, but you dare not let anywhere near an equal force of even your own men approach until they have all given the correct passwords, and after days or weeks they may start to get fatigued and more susceptible to social engineering, and the enemy is very, very good at social engineering (thanks to disguises, Persuasion/Deception, Charm Person, and Bardic Inspiration).

I would also expect the bards to be rather good at night attacks, due to massed Prestidigitation and Dancing Lights and/or Faerie Fire. Depending on how exactly the "starting equipment only" rules work it might be possible to take Slings as a simple weapon and use free stones for ammunition or, if that's illegal, to instead scavenge weapons from defeated enemies. In case of emergency Vicious Mockery is not completely useless as a short-range weapon, although Dashing close enough to deploy Thunderwave might prove more effective.

It's really hard to predict how well Combat As War tactics would play out, and the Changeling Charlatan Bard army would be almost pure Combat As War, but in any case I shouldn't like to have them as enemies. I would not sleep well until I had made peace with that faction.

[Catullus64]

Bards also have a spell that no other 1st Level character has: Heroism. A decently-ok spell in most adventure scenarios, but really game-changing one in a large battle. If you have a dedicated second rank to cast it on the front line, that could almost make Bardic infantry competitive with tougher, more heavily armored classes. In fact, maybe have several swappable ranks of Heroism-casters that can keep buffing the guys in front, so you can pull this trick for longer than two minutes of fighting. Another advantage they have is starting access to a Disguise Kit via Entertainer's Pack, so they can actually have a wider diversity of background than just Charlatan while still having more sustained disguise capability.

Plus, their parade drill will be spectacular. Drums, horns, trumpets, you name it. Oh, and I guess you could use those instruments for battlefield communication, I guess.

But what to do about Warlocks? Aside from the nightmarish command problems that arise if different parts of your army are sworn to the service of vastly different entities, the one spell slot per short rest seems like a pretty nasty limitation, even if it could be valuable in a prolonged engagement. The hexblade patron might be a decent choice, but it lacks the equipment to really take advantage of those proficiencies.

[Amechra]

I'm chuckling a bit because my Moist Angry Guys army wasn't a serious attempt (come on, it's a themed army of Barbarians, for crying out loud!), but it actually has some hard counters to social engineering purely by accident.

Only 200 out of 1000 people can be replaced by Changelings, because everyone else has the practically-foolproof identity test of "hey, sit underwater for an hour or two". On top of that, the fact that Barbarians can withstand more damage than nearly anyone else means that "stand still while I whack you with this axe" is a legitimate way to test identities.

---

Bards also have the deceptively strong option of spamming Vicious Mockery and Bane. And you shouldn't underestimate Bardic Inspiration - being able to hand out +1d6 to an ability check, attack roll, or save is fantastic when your entire force can bring that to bear.

I'm also surprised at the lack of Sorcerers and Warlocks. Much like Clerics, they get their subclass at 1st level, which drastically expands their options. I might actually make a crack at Warlocks later - a spellcasting army that can recharge all of their goodies with an hour's rest is going to have some advantages.

EDIT: To elaborate on Warlocks:

They have some really plentiful short rest healing (thank you, Celestial Warlocks). Warlocks are also sadistically good at screwing with clustered enemies - Arms of Hadar and Fey Presence can do a number on anyone who expected to fight in any sort of formation.

[MaxWilson]

Bards also have a spell that no other 1st Level character has: Heroism. A decently-ok spell in most adventure scenarios, but really game-changing one in a large battle. If you have a dedicated second rank to cast it on the front line, that could almost make Bardic infantry competitive with tougher, more heavily armored classes.

I actually think Heroism is at its worst in a large battle, and at its best in very small engagements. In large battles its efficiency drops dramatically. Every shot that ignores your front line and shoots your lightly-armored back line (the Heroism casters) degrades the effectiveness of your Heroism spells, and possibly disrupts them altogether. Every shot which ignores an unwounded Heroism beneficiary to focus on an already-wounded one degrades the effectiveness further. An enemy who breaks contact and waits for as little as sixty seconds before re-engaging nullifies Heroism entirely. No, I fear Heroism will do very little good that wouldn't be done anyway by Healing Word.

Heroism is an interesting spell but it looks better on paper than it actually is, and a large battle will only exacerbate that deficiency.

If you'd like to see a battlefield simulation of Heroism vs. Healing Word I would be happy to create one.

I'm chuckling a bit because my Moist Angry Guys army wasn't a serious attempt (come on, it's a themed army of Barbarians, for crying out loud!), but it actually has some hard counters to social engineering purely by accident.

Only 200 out of 1000 people can be replaced by Changelings, because everyone else has the practically-foolproof identity test of "hey, sit underwater for an hour or two". On top of that, the fact that Barbarians can withstand more damage than nearly anyone else means that "stand still while I whack you with this axe" is a legitimate way to test identities.

---

Bards also have the deceptively strong option of spamming Vicious Mockery and Bane. And you shouldn't underestimate Bardic Inspiration - being able to hand out +1d6 to an ability check, attack roll, or save is fantastic when your entire force can bring that to bear.

I'm also surprised at the lack of Sorcerers and Warlocks. Much like Clerics, they get their subclass at 1st level, which drastically expands their options. I might actually make a crack at Warlocks later - a spellcasting army that can recharge all of their goodies with an hour's rest is going to have some advantages.

"Sit underwater for an hour or two" doesn't really solve the problem though. Yes, it prevents sleeper agents from infiltrating your army on a long-term basis (the Genasi can be mimicked for only a short time, because they can prove their identities by casting e.g. Produce Flame). But you still have to be paranoid about letting 100 of your own men come back from patrol, lest they suddenly disable 200 of your men with Thunderwave/Sleep. Every friendly interaction on land needs to be treated as potentially hostile unless you always keep your whole army in one 1000-man formation 100% of the time, which makes occupying territory difficult, except directly along the coastline of course.

I disagree about Vicious Mockery and Bane. Neither one is impressive in mass combat, in fact they're both rather weak.

[Amechra]

I'm assuming that Winged Tieflings are also banned, under the same logic as Aarakocra?

[Catullus64]

Every shot that ignores your front line and shoots your lightly-armored back line (the Heroism casters) degrades the effectiveness of your Heroism spells, and possibly disrupts them altogether. Every shot which ignores an unwounded Heroism beneficiary to focus on an already-wounded one degrades the effectiveness further. An enemy who breaks contact and waits for as little as sixty seconds before re-engaging nullifies Heroism entirely.

These are accurate considerations, but I think that they simply mean that Heroism needs to be employed while attacking rather than defending. Focusing fire on an already wounded or buffing won't work as well when the buffed, unwounded targets are right in your face causing trouble, nor can you wait for their buff to wear off. The usefulness of the spell also varies depending on how mundane you're willing to get with the Frightened condition; if battlefield routs and buckling morale are in any way related to being capital-F Frightened rather than just, like, afraid, then Heroism is certainly valuable in that department.

[MaxWilson]

These are accurate considerations, but I think that they simply mean that Heroism needs to be employed while attacking rather than defending. Focusing fire on an already wounded or buffing won't work as well when the buffed, unwounded targets are right in your face causing trouble, nor can you wait for their buff to wear off. The usefulness of the spell also varies depending on how mundane you're willing to get with the Frightened condition; if battlefield routs and buckling morale are in any way related to being capital-F Frightened rather than just, like, afraid, then Heroism is certainly valuable in that department.

But even in an attack, there's too much opportunity for focus fire for Heroism to pay dividends. If 30 Bards with Heroism backed by another 30 Bards watching from a distance attack 60 Fighters, surely those 60 Fighters aren't likely to neatly pair off 1:1 with each bard? No, they'll fire 60 arrows, and about 40 will hit. Heroism will increase the number of hits needed to kill a bard from just under two to somewhat over two, so about 15-20 bards will go down. But you could have spent those 30 first-level spell slots on Healing Word instead, bringing 20 bards back into the fight and leaving 10 more heals in reserve for next round.

No, I cannot recommend Heroism for large-scale use. It doesn't scale up.

Edit: I suppose though that Heroism might have niche uses, like trying to get a bunch of bards close for massed Thunderwave. There's even some synergy there with Healing Word, since Heroism will resume operation after they are healed.

[Sigreid]

These are accurate considerations, but I think that they simply mean that Heroism needs to be employed while attacking rather than defending. Focusing fire on an already wounded or buffing won't work as well when the buffed, unwounded targets are right in your face causing trouble, nor can you wait for their buff to wear off. The usefulness of the spell also varies depending on how mundane you're willing to get with the Frightened condition; if battlefield routs and buckling morale are in any way related to being capital-F Frightened rather than just, like, afraid, then Heroism is certainly valuable in that department.

This takes us back to "What kind of a war are you fighting?" If you're planning on defensive, the I'd say druid or cleric is your best bet as with Purify Food and Water and Goodberry (possibly from nature clerics) siege warfare is now not a way for the attacker to win.

[Amechra]

A rough draft of the holiest group of Warlocks you've ever met.

The Order of the Heavens

200 Kalashtar Celestial Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Undecided, other than Cure Wounds
Truly the most blessed of our forces! The angelic spirits that ride them give them incredible mental fortitude and the ability to speak into our very hearts! They have the holy ability to heal our forces of their wounds and call down sacred flames upon the cowardly blackguards we so despise.

300 Changeling Archfey Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Definitely Arms of Hadar. Maybe Hex as well?
Sometimes, goodness must hide behind a veil lest it scorch the world. These are our diplomats, our spies, and, if needed, a weapon to bring terror into the hearts of our foes.

500 Eladrin Hexblade Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Booming Blade because of fear shenanigans. Maybe Wrathful Smite or Cause Fear? Hex is an obvious choice, but I'm not sure.
The strong arm of our force. Breaking character, the goal here is to Frighten people and break them to pieces with Booming Blade.

---

Nice features of the Order of the Heavens:
1) The non-Hexblades are pretty good at being social, so being nice to people will be a piece of cake!
2) Kalashtar Telepathy gives us a pretty secure way to pass orders along. I'm glad I could find a charismatic race with telepathy, honestly.
3) I actually wasn't aware of how many "make people Frightened" spells and features Warlocks got. They're going to be pretty strong against any non-Bards who try to fight in formation.

[col_impact]

Questions:

Ghostwise halfling and GOO warlocks share what in common?

How good is that ability they share in common in terms of stealth operations?

What cantrips can mimic this ability?

[col_impact]

A rough draft of the holiest group of Warlocks you've ever met.

The Order of the Heavens

200 Kalashtar Celestial Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Undecided, other than Cure Wounds
Truly the most blessed of our forces! The angelic spirits that ride them give them incredible mental fortitude and the ability to speak into our very hearts! They have the holy ability to heal our forces of their wounds and call down sacred flames upon the cowardly blackguards we so despise.

300 Changeling Archfey Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Definitely Arms of Hadar. Maybe Hex as well?
Sometimes, goodness must hide behind a veil lest it scorch the world. These are our diplomats, our spies, and, if needed, a weapon to bring terror into the hearts of our foes.

500 Eladrin Hexblade Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Booming Blade because of fear shenanigans. Maybe Wrathful Smite or Cause Fear? Hex is an obvious choice, but I'm not sure.
The strong arm of our force. Breaking character, the goal here is to Frighten people and break them to pieces with Booming Blade.

---

Nice features of the Order of the Heavens:
1) The non-Hexblades are pretty good at being social, so being nice to people will be a piece of cake!
2) Kalashtar Telepathy gives us a pretty secure way to pass orders along. I'm glad I could find a charismatic race with telepathy, honestly.
3) I actually wasn't aware of how many "make people Frightened" spells and features Warlocks got. They're going to be pretty strong against any non-Bards who try to fight in formation.

I suggest sticking with AL legal races only. AL is a managed format that weeds out silly OP stuff which is in a lot of the beta UA stuff. AL is good for a base of fairness for army building. But that is just IMHO.

[Kane0]

I’m surprised warforged havent come up more. Are they vetoed?

[8wGremlin]

I’m surprised warforged havent come up more. Are they vetoed?

I've been told that only Volo's is banned.

I was toying with some Dragon marked houses, Eberron and Ravenica as well, and seeing what they could do, a truely Battle of the Planes kind of vibe.

With Warforged, one of the key tactics that could be deployed is biological warfare, start a plague, and carry plague victims with you. Launching bottles of plague and encouraging it to spread.

Warforge:
have advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and have resistance to poison damage.You don’t need to eat, drink, or breathe.
You are immune to disease.
You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep.

the ability to not need to sleep is powerful, and shouldn't be underestimated, there is no supply chain as they don't need resources, and can make forays in advance of the main army to poison wells, and water sources, as well as diseased food.

Yes other forces could counteract this with the appropriate spells, but that means that they are using up resources to do so.

[CapnWildefyr]

OK, keeping it simple: Fighters
300 Aarakocra
250 elves
50 earth genaasi
250 dwarves
150 centaurs

All wizard and all cleric armies, in this scenario, will usually lose. I'm not a general; haven't been to war college. But air power will be a colossal pain for others. Range is irrelevant. You can drop rocks from 800 ft and whittle the enemy away, bit by bit. War is about taking and holding ground. Seeing where the enemy is, is HUGE. Centaur scouts (starting items only means you can't afford a horse otherwise) so we have skirmishers, aarokocra to locate and harass and whittle away the enemy. Dwarves for the infantry core, elves for the archery, genaasi just because.

You can defeat infiltration with careful procedures -- passwords, only allowing through your own clansmen, layered security. You can sit outside spellcasters range and kill them, burn their supply trains, poison their food, and do this from distance. Etc. The enemy can hide in the woods, for example, but it all depends on where you are fighting and what you are fighting for -- all of which isn't in the OP example.

It's easy to think in terms of individual fights, but that's not warfare. A well-rounded attack, mobility, recon -- not going to get that in one class except for the generic fighter -- all round killing machines.

[MaxWilson]

But air power will be a colossal pain for others. Range is irrelevant. You can drop rocks from 800 ft and whittle the enemy away, bit by bit.

That's why Aarakocra are now banned--otherwise they are a dominant choicechoice, and dominant choices make for boring discussions.

Which centaur are you using, the Ravnica one? What are its traits? I don't own Ravnica.

[Dork_Forge]

A rough draft of the holiest group of Warlocks you've ever met.

The Order of the Heavens

200 Kalashtar Celestial Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Undecided, other than Cure Wounds
Truly the most blessed of our forces! The angelic spirits that ride them give them incredible mental fortitude and the ability to speak into our very hearts! They have the holy ability to heal our forces of their wounds and call down sacred flames upon the cowardly blackguards we so despise.

300 Changeling Archfey Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Definitely Arms of Hadar. Maybe Hex as well?
Sometimes, goodness must hide behind a veil lest it scorch the world. These are our diplomats, our spies, and, if needed, a weapon to bring terror into the hearts of our foes.

500 Eladrin Hexblade Patron Warlocks
Backgrounds: Undecided
Spells Known: Booming Blade because of fear shenanigans. Maybe Wrathful Smite or Cause Fear? Hex is an obvious choice, but I'm not sure.
The strong arm of our force. Breaking character, the goal here is to Frighten people and break them to pieces with Booming Blade.

---

Nice features of the Order of the Heavens:
1) The non-Hexblades are pretty good at being social, so being nice to people will be a piece of cake!
2) Kalashtar Telepathy gives us a pretty secure way to pass orders along. I'm glad I could find a charismatic race with telepathy, honestly.
3) I actually wasn't aware of how many "make people Frightened" spells and features Warlocks got. They're going to be pretty strong against any non-Bards who try to fight in formation.

You could throw in some Aasimar to bolster your healing corps, under the restrictions every little helps.

I suggest sticking with AL legal races only. AL is a managed format that weeds out silly OP stuff which is in a lot of the beta UA stuff. AL is good for a base of fairness for army building. But that is just IMHO.

Warforged ARE AL legal in Eberron campaigns and AL doesn't really weed out options available to people, just makes them sacrifice things to satisfy phb +1. Hexblade is pretty ridiculous but you can still have an AL legal SAD Palock.

[CapnWildefyr]

Actually, I don't have Ravnica either. I saw them earlier in the thread, and frankly, it's all about movement. Horses are faster than people (mostly, anyway in DnD). I'm just looking for general all-round role-filling here.

Also -- didn't see the ixnay for aarakocra. Sorry. So I'd probably swap them out with 50 gnomes (engineers) and the rest as elves (until I can think of some other race to serve as fast scouts).

Although, it does make me wonder... what would an army of 1000 monks look like? Again, I'm looking at the movement -- and also the extra attack. But they also would suffer from the lack of armor and vulnerability to arrows, without shields. They do have missile weapons, though, unlike wizards for example.

My biggest point is to get people thinking more strategically - it's not just about the combats/one-on-one encounters (including with spies). The Brits, for example, had the best navy because of their training and drilling, not just weapons. It wasn't that their ships of the line were way way better than the French etc. (not that they didn't innovate!) but that they were more disciplined and practiced with live shot more, so they fired faster and straighter. And at the Battle of the Bulge Patton got his 3 divisions moving so soon to stop the Wermacht because of his intelligence operations -- hence needing the centaurs or whatever. These intangibles are crucial. So its not the unlimited firebolt spells, or just longbows - it's how to have enough of different things to (1) find the other guy first (2) be able to handle multiple situations and be able to force the other guys into making bad choices.

I'm sure there's got to be someone with a military background on the forum -- be interesting to hear that point of view.

[Dork_Forge]

Actually, I don't have Ravnica either. I saw them earlier in the thread, and frankly, it's all about movement. Horses are faster than people (mostly, anyway in DnD). I'm just looking for general all-round role-filling here.

Also -- didn't see the ixnay for aarakocra. Sorry. So I'd probably swap them out with 50 gnomes (engineers) and the rest as elves (until I can think of some other race to serve as fast scouts).

Although, it does make me wonder... what would an army of 1000 monks look like? Again, I'm looking at the movement -- and also the extra attack. But they also would suffer from the lack of armor and vulnerability to arrows, without shields. They do have missile weapons, though, unlike wizards for example.

My biggest point is to get people thinking more strategically - it's not just about the combats/one-on-one encounters (including with spies). The Brits, for example, had the best navy because of their training and drilling, not just weapons. It wasn't that their ships of the line were way way better than the French etc. (not that they didn't innovate!) but that they were more disciplined and practiced with live shot more, so they fired faster and straighter. And at the Battle of the Bulge Patton got his 3 divisions moving so soon to stop the Wermacht because of his intelligence operations -- hence needing the centaurs or whatever. These intangibles are crucial. So its not the unlimited firebolt spells, or just longbows - it's how to have enough of different things to (1) find the other guy first (2) be able to handle multiple situations and be able to force the other guys into making bad choices.

I'm sure there's got to be someone with a military background on the forum -- be interesting to hear that point of view.

Monks don't get a speed boost at first level, but speed raises a question. Goblins are banned under the Volos thing, but they're also in Eberron so maybe eligible? The bonus action disengage makes for interesting skirmishers (and pseudo level 2 Rogues), liekwise the Tabaxi would make fantastic hit them hard and fast units (shock troops).

[Kane0]

I would probably go with an army of warforged, say 50% fighters, 25% arcana clerics and 25% death clerics.
Tons of logistical problems that we don’t need to worry about (Free armor and tools, no need for food or sleep, can fight underwater), everyone has access to healing, half of them have access to utility and/or combat magic. The mixture of warforged subraces do wonders for different roles too. Flight would be a big weakness to come up against but that’s been disallowed.

[Amechra]

Although, it does make me wonder... what would an army of 1000 monks look like? Again, I'm looking at the movement -- and also the extra attack. But they also would suffer from the lack of armor and vulnerability to arrows, without shields. They do have missile weapons, though, unlike wizards for example.

Monks are almost entirely useless in this, unfortunately. They don't get their speed boost until 2nd level. They actually have pretty solid armor (they get a free AC 16 if you pick your races to land 16 Dex and Wis), and they're surprisingly aggressive in close combat... but otherwise? They get no other features that will help them out in a strategic sense the way that spellcasters do, and their AC is heavily dependent on grabbing a race that boosts both Dexterity and Wisdom. Expect a lot of Wood Elves to shore up weaknesses.

---

Unfortunately, a lot of military strategy is heavily contingent on exactly what you're doing... and we don't know exactly what these armies will be doing.

But take, say, my Soaked Stressed Lads from earlier on. They have the following built in:

1) Aquatic dominance (Unless someone else makes a primarily-aquatic army). If nothing, massed use of Shape Water underneath a ship can scuttle it, and this allows them to keep their central command safe.
2) Excellent stealth capabilities. A single Earth Genasi can hide a massive number of people using their racial magic.
3) A quarter of them don't need to eat, alleviating supply costs. Because they're barbarian robots. On top of that, each Outlander can cover food and water needs for up to six people - I can cover 600 people if I don't decide to make more of my forces Outlanders.

Notice how #1 and #3 are contingent on terrain? That's important when it comes to actually talking about strategies.

That being said, some of them are going to have to have suboptimal stats. Can't have my entire army dumping Charisma or Intelligence, now can I?

[Amechra]

I would probably go with an army of warforged, say 50% fighters, 25% arcana clerics and 25% death clerics.
Tons of logistical problems that we don’t need to worry about (Free armor and tools, no need for food or sleep, can fight underwater), everyone has access to healing, half of them have access to utility and/or combat magic. The mixture of warforged subraces do wonders for different roles too. Flight would be a big weakness to come up against but that’s been disallowed.

Eberron Warforged don't have subraces, and don't get free armor.

However, they can just Integrate the armor that Clerics get as part of their starting kit, so you're good there.

EDIT: Also, remember that they'll be slow underwater, because they don't have a swim speed.