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2016-12-20, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
How could someone make a mainly monk character who is actually playable and can keep up with Tier 1 and 2? Is there any way or it it just THAT bad that it is literally no match to an unoptimized tier 1 or 2 whatever you do with it? I mean like everything, from getting good AC, equipment, feats, class level dips, PrC's, skill tricks, etc. All 3.5 sources and un updated 3.0 are allowed, including dragon magazine.
Last edited by flappeercraft; 2016-12-20 at 03:07 AM.
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2016-12-20, 03:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Easy, just prestige into Sacred Fist or Enlightened Fist. Or, if you prefer, you could go Psionic Fist or Tashalatora, that works too.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
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Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
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2016-12-20, 03:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Well, without using tricks like UMD to mimic being a wizard, there is no way a monk can keep up at all with a similarly-optimised Tier 1 or 2. It just doesn't have that kind of potential.
That's not really being a monk, though. That's being a powerful class that happens to have a bit of monk tacked on. Remember that the OP wanted most of the build to consist of monk.Last edited by Tiri; 2016-12-20 at 03:25 AM.
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2016-12-20, 03:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Somebody did a monk build for a challenge Emperor Tippy laid down a while back that could solo all of the elder evils by itself. There was enough cheese in that build to choke a rhino, though.
Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2016-12-20 at 05:06 PM.
I am not seaweed. That's a B.
Praise I've received A quick outline on building a homebrew campaign
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2016-12-20, 03:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Oh, and there's also Master of the North/East/West wind. Those can keep up with T1s okay. Works best if you springboard in off of Enlightened Fist.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2016-12-20, 03:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Sounds like your looking for an unarmed sword sage instead of a monk...
Few things are more disturbing to a dragon than to be attacked by a naked gnome slathered in BBQ sauce.
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2016-12-20, 03:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
A Rope Dart Trip Cleaver with the RAW reading of Cleave and Martial Spirit Stance would give you some nice CC, mild healing, and AoE damage. Add the Parry line and you become a decent defender of the party. You need to be able to tackle teleportation and flight at the very least. Martial Monk Devil Bloodline into Jaunter can help you with the first one. Flight might have to be delegated to race or item. Awakened Advanced Monkey is probably one of the best races ever for a monk even without template abuse. Uncanny Trickster might not be flight, but it can help you traverse the battlefield better and keep Jaunter going strong. A two level dip into Moon-Warded Ranger can let you double up on Wis to AC, which while not great, is pretty nice and the full BaB can't hurt.
But honestly, the more I look at it, the more I want to scream Play a Swordsage or Monk is a 2 level class, dip Barbarian, Fighter, and Ranger for front-loaded goodies.
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2016-12-20, 04:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2016-12-20, 04:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Personally, I'd suggest refluffing a Barbarian or PF Magus or the using a spherecasting class with the Monastic Tradition in Spheres of Power.
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2016-12-20, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
It's like this;
The more monk* you use, the more this character becomes an exercise in WBL-mancy. Monk* abilities are kind of a grab-bag of "okay, that's neat" without a whole lot of coherence. You can make a perfectly functional character in spite of this fact but only if you know how to cover your butt with the right gear.
That out of the way, you will -not- keep up with the T1 and T2 classes, period. The gulf between T3 and T2 is really only covered by taking on T2 spellcasting or a near equivalent ability, e.g. the sublime chord's advanced spellcasting or wild shape from ranger levels going into a PrC that soups-up wild shape into something better than just animals. Unless you want to get into enlightened or sacred fist or take tashalatora, you're just never getting there. I think there was a wild shape monk in an issue of dragon but that's your only other realistic option.
Now, do you wanna do what's doable with monk* or do you wanna hit T1 - T2 power?
*monk and/or PrC's that advance or mimic monk class features but do not give or advance spellcasting/manifestingI am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2016-12-20, 05:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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2016-12-20, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
OK, Think I've found a rather convoluted way to make a "Mostly Monk" that can hold up with tier 1...
Lvl 1 (now ex) bard. Character grew up in the bardic tradition but just could not shake their feeling it wasn't what they wanted.
Feats Iron Will, Spell Focus(evil)
Lvl 2-5 Monk. Taken in by group dedicated to Hextor you learn your proper role as a warrior/assassin for the state secret police. Bard skills (bluff, Know Planes, and spell craft) continue to get honed while picking up Know (Arcana/religion) off Monk.
Feat Combat Reflex
Lvl 6-7. One of your contacts, a healer of unique province, teaches you the arts of Ur-Priest.
Feat Combat Casting
Lvl 8-17 Sacred Fist. At lvl 16 you are tossing 9th level Divine spells while still fighting like a monk.Few things are more disturbing to a dragon than to be attacked by a naked gnome slathered in BBQ sauce.
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2016-12-20, 11:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
What is an "unoptimized tier 1 or tier 2" exactly? Is it a commoner with a cat or something? Are they allowed to use their class features at all?
I mean, you could go Sacred Path of Wee Jas for a bonus to Use Magic Device and try to use all the scrolls and other magic devices your Tier 1 class already could use, but you might still get trounced by somebody's animal companion.
Oh my goodness partially charged wands! Of course!Last edited by Karl Aegis; 2016-12-20 at 11:33 AM.
"Movement speed is the most important statistic in this game."
"Give them no mercy for they give no mercy to us."
"I see one of those I kill it!"
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2016-12-20, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Monk is pretty good with god stats . 3 or 4 , 18,s should do the job to put monk on par with a Barbarian or Fighter . Can Mr DM handle that pressure ?
Awesome Feats ?
Chaste Life <book of erotic fantasy> + 2 AB points of your choice and fits with monk ideals .
Flying Kick . A must have monk feat . + D12 damage on charge attack
Circle Kick . Its kinda like cleave but better . You dont need to drop the enemy to get your extra Att into his adjacent friend and can do it every round .Last edited by Pugwampy; 2016-12-20 at 11:49 AM.
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2016-12-20, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Now that's a phrase I haven't heard before. Mind if I steal it?
How exactly do you keep getting skill ranks in bard skills? A class skill gained through a dip doesn't stay a class skill forever: at monk 5 the maximum number of Spellcraft ranks would still be 4.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2016-12-20, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Except for the fact that even with god stats, if you try to build a character using mainly monk class levels, you will still end up with a bad chassis for the main purpose of your class and almost completely unsynergystic class features.
You will also be unable to really prioritise one stat over another so in the end any one of your abilities will be weaker than that of a more SAD class with the same ability.
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2016-12-20, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
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2016-12-20, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
you will still end up with a bad chassis for the main purpose of your class
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2016-12-20, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Original comment ninja'd...
NOTE: Replace Bard with Factotem removes the alignment change required otherwise and would make for a smoother transition.Last edited by John Longarrow; 2016-12-20 at 11:57 AM.
Few things are more disturbing to a dragon than to be attacked by a naked gnome slathered in BBQ sauce.
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2016-12-20, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
A VERY good question. No armor, boosted movement speed and dimension door say "skirmish," but Flurry of Blows and the self-healing say "stand and fight." High saves and Sr say "Mage-Slayer," but the lack of special senses, flight, and high-speed or long-distance teleports, and similar such counters preclude that.
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2016-12-20, 12:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
How could someone make a mainly monk character who is actually playable and can keep up with Tier 1 and 2?
I see monk class best used in combat as a " disrupter. "
A fighter or Barbarian can afford to just stand still and hack and slash till enemy goes down .
A monk cannot do that , he will get slaughtered . So what does monk do ? Well if he disarmed said monster , he just made monster even less combat effective then him provided monster cannot get his weapon back .
Or perhaps grappled monster taking both both and monster out of this encounter if only temporary could help his buddies alot .
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2016-12-20, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-12-20, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2016-12-20, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-12-20, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
Monk's are playable if not mechanically the strongest class (there is a huge difference). If the party is a healing focused favoured soul, a god wizard and a buff oriented sorcerer the monk will probably feel pretty useful being the entire frontline/damage dealer.
Dnd is a team game at heart, if you get the party working together a monk can easily help contribute.
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2016-12-20, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-12-20, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
"If the rest of the team focuses on helping you, you can contribute!" isn't the most useful metric.
But to be more useful...
- Wild Monk, from Dragon 324. Wild Monk 6/Master of Many Forms 10 will give you something pretty excellent. All the lovely brokeness of MoMF, plus Wis-to-AC in all forms and Flurry of Blows+Secondary Natural Weapons. Wild Monk alone saves you, though low levels are even worse without your usual bonus feats. Even without MoMF, it's not terrible, though a Druid with a Monk's Belt does everything it does better.
- Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil) gives you swift-action Invisibility all day long, which is fun.
- Martial Monk (Dragon 310) arguably lets you pick Fighter bonus feats without meeting the prerequisites, which is surprisingly not-broken but does offer some fun combos.
- Decisive Strike (PHB 2)
Or Highland Stalker. That might be your best option, since it gives you the AC bonus you need to qualify for Improved Skirmish. But at a certain point you might as well just play a Scout with Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike. (Or a 1-2 level Monk dip, which does have some uses on a Scout-- they do so love their extra attacks)Hill Giant Games
I make indie gaming books for you!Spoiler
STaRS: A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system.
Grod's Guide to Greatness, 2e: A big book of player options for 5e.
Grod's Grimoire of the Grotesque: An even bigger book of variant and expanded rules for 5e.
Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.
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2016-12-20, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-12-20, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Making a monk that is actually playable (3.5)
What, "enough cheese to choke a rhino?" sure, far be it from me to be the language police. All I ask is that, if you do quote it directly, you put the comma after "rhino" that ougth to be there.
Nah, it's not like its a special phrase or anything. Just the most colorful way I could think of to say "lots and lots of cheese" in the moment.
I'm honestly surprised at how often I spawn new sig's. Am I really that quotable?Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2016-12-20 at 05:05 PM.
I am not seaweed. That's a B.
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2016-12-20, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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