Combined military might of the universe

[Quertus]

In a "reality vs reality" "battle to the death", which gaming universe do you believe could field the greatest military might?

Rules

(Hopefully we won't need many)

Rule #1) no infinite. No matter how unrealistic or out of character it may be, anything infinite in numbers or capabilities is not participating.

Rule #2) impossible alliances. No matter how philosophically opposed, all the (non-infinite) beings in the universe are working together. For reasons.

So, whataya got? Which universe do you think would be able to field the strongest force? Which would be best positioned to subjugate the others? What factors would potentially affect your answer?

[Khedrac]

As a general answer, this depends what rule-set is in play.

When it comes to straight science fiction, universes where people can fight while FTL tend to be able to automatically beat anyone who cannot - you can dodge anything sent at you while they probably cannot dodge their attacks.

Once one starts adding in magic or other factors, the rule-set becomes dominant.
A many years ago there was a spoof story floating round the internet with the crew of the original Starship Enterprise meeting Road Runner on an away mission. The story ends with the Enterprise crew trying to work out why their engines are not working as the ship crashes into the plant (I think they had decided to kill the passing creature - the Road Runner - for lunch). The Road Runner's plot armour where physics stops working for its adversaries trumping the much superior Star Trek technology.

Similarly the power of magic-type technologies is suffienctly different to straight science fiction that the victor is likely to be determined by how one decides the powers interact.

Another problem is that lots of universes have entities who are pretty much defined as being able to survive anything done to them - e.g. Goku from the Dragonball universe who, from that I have seen, tends to lose his first fight against anything new, but always survives to come back able to beat what previously beat him.
Another example is probably The Hulk from Marvel (though I will bow to people with more knowlege of Marvel who can provide a better example).

End result is that this question cannot be answered without defining the terms in such a way that you know who will win before you do the anlaysis.

On the other hand, there are lots of universes you know won't win as they are well enough defined that you know they are weaker than others defined similarly. E.g. the Traveller universe will lose to the Star Trek universe (among many others) as the technology just isn't that great.

[awa]

It will probably be a super hero setting, those tend to be able to throw such larger numbers at a problem as to render almost anything else irrelevant.

[Anonymouswizard]

40k has technology to rival most science fiction settings, but if everybody is working together it potentially beats most superhero settings. Necron technology is insane, I believe they have Lensmen-style FTL (which means potentially parsecs/second), but now we can give it to orks. Even without mixing we can have Eldar seers helping us send Chaos Legions to key points, I'm not sure Superman could defeat both a battalion of Necrons and a company of Thousand Sons.

[Batcathat]

40k has technology to rival most science fiction settings, but if everybody is working together it potentially beats most superhero settings. Necron technology is insane, I believe they have Lensmen-style FTL (which means potentially parsecs/second), but now we can give it to orks. Even without mixing we can have Eldar seers helping us send Chaos Legions to key points, I'm not sure Superman could defeat both a battalion of Necrons and a company of Thousand Sons.

Though if we include superhero settings and other kinds of fiction (the use of "gaming universe" in the OP made me unsure) there's the fact that a lot of them include beings far more powerful than even someone like Superman. How would you even quantify the military strength of someone like Marvel's the Living Tribunal, DC's Mister Mxyzptlk or Star Trek's Q? And a lot of settings have far more than just one being in the "effectively omnipotent" class.

[Anonymouswizard]

Though if we include superhero settings and other kinds of fiction (the use of "gaming universe" in the OP made me unsure) there's the fact that a lot of them include beings far more powerful than even someone like Superman. How would you even quantify the military strength of someone like Marvel's the Living Tribunal, DC's Mister Mxyzptlk or Star Trek's Q? And a lot of settings have far more than just one being in the "effectively omnipotent" class.

Blood for the blood god!

[ExLibrisMortis]

As I understand it, the WH40K universe, vast as it is, still mainly concerns a single galaxy. The same is true of the Culture universe, which, if Sublimed civilizations are counted, might be a contender in this competition. Is there even a setting that includes multiple inhabited galaxies at all?

[Batcathat]

As I understand it, the WH40K universe, vast as it is, still mainly concerns a single galaxy. The same is true of the Culture universe, which, if Sublimed civilizations are counted, might be a contender in this competition. Is there even a setting that includes multiple inhabited galaxies at all?

Stargate does, I think. Atlantis takes place in the Pegasus galaxy and I think Stargate Universe is in yet another galaxy. Though that's just the first one that came to mind, I'm sure there are plenty of sci-fi settings spanning multiple galaxies.

[Quertus]

40k has technology to rival most science fiction settings, but if everybody is working together it potentially beats most superhero settings. Necron technology is insane, I believe they have Lensmen-style FTL (which means potentially parsecs/second), but now we can give it to orks. Even without mixing we can have Eldar seers helping us send Chaos Legions to key points, I'm not sure Superman could defeat both a battalion of Necrons and a company of Thousand Sons.

Though if we include superhero settings and other kinds of fiction (the use of "gaming universe" in the OP made me unsure)

Sorry - what do I need to clarify?

there's the fact that a lot of them include beings far more powerful than even someone like Superman. How would you even quantify the military strength of someone like Marvel's the Living Tribunal, DC's Mister Mxyzptlk or Star Trek's Q? And a lot of settings have far more than just one being in the "effectively omnipotent" class.

Those sound like *exactly* the kind of beings I was aiming to exclude with my "no infinite" rule.

In fact, in *some* versions of DC, I think even Superman would qualify as infinite.

[Quertus]

As a general answer, this depends what rule-set is in play.

When it comes to straight science fiction, universes where people can fight while FTL tend to be able to automatically beat anyone who cannot - you can dodge anything sent at you while they probably cannot dodge their attacks.

On the other hand, there are lots of universes you know won't win as they are well enough defined that you know they are weaker than others defined similarly. E.g. the Traveller universe will lose to the Star Trek universe (among many others) as the technology just isn't that great.

Well, let's start with these, then. Which universes have "fire from FTL"? Which universes otherwise have clear winners and losers?

As I understand it, the WH40K universe, vast as it is, still mainly concerns a single galaxy. The same is true of the Culture universe, which, if Sublimed civilizations are counted, might be a contender in this competition. Is there even a setting that includes multiple inhabited galaxies at all?

I think that the… uh… "bugs" came from another galaxy.

Also, if you choose Star Wars, you get our galaxy (in the distant past) as an added bonus.

[Batcathat]

Sorry - what do I need to clarify?

The fact that you specifically referred to as "gaming universes" made me unsure of whether something like the Marvel universe or the Star Wars universe would qualify since, while there are games set in those universes, I wouldn't call them "gaming universes" myself.

Those sound like *exactly* the kind of beings I was aiming to exclude with my "no infinite" rule.

In fact, in *some* versions of DC, I think even Superman would qualify as infinite.

Ah, that might be my mistake. I think I focused on the "nothing infinite in numbers" and kinda missed the "capabilities" part of the sentence. Still, it might be kinda hard to draw the line between "just really, really powerful" and "infinitely powerful".

[Unavenger]

Probably one of the 3.5 ones where you can't take a run action without tripping over an epic spellcaster is at least a consideration, and as with similar discussions of this nature it'll depend on the optimisation level and whether any deities bother getting involved.

It's possible that Magic: The Gathering is also in the running, given the ridiculously powerful things that planeswalkers - and a few other creatures like the Eldrazi titans - can do just by feeling like it.

[LibraryOgre]

40k has technology to rival most science fiction settings, but if everybody is working together it potentially beats most superhero settings. Necron technology is insane, I believe they have Lensmen-style FTL (which means potentially parsecs/second), but now we can give it to orks. Even without mixing we can have Eldar seers helping us send Chaos Legions to key points, I'm not sure Superman could defeat both a battalion of Necrons and a company of Thousand Sons.

And still, with all that, we would not have enough dakka.

[awa]

I'm not sure Superman could defeat both a battalion of Necrons and a company of Thousand Sons.

sure he could, just hurl the entire planet into the sun. Also remember the dc universe is a multi-verse everyone works together you don't just get one superman you get many.

More seriously I don't think anyone is fast enough to matter, superman has both planet destroying strength and ludicrous speed. Few weapons in the 40K universe would have both the accuracy to hit such a target and the power to hurt him. A necron or traitor marine is so slow that they are capable of missing a target with only human speed, they would logically be helpless. Now maybe a named character would have enough plot armor to not get insta gibed but with out some kind of meta mechanic to hold superman back its utterly one sided.

Well maybe not superman his no kill rule would be a problem but that's fine, their are lots of other kryptonians and other being at a similar power level, you grab every DC villain at once and throw them at a problem your Zod, and Darkseid, and Dooms day and Braniac and like a hundred other less famous but equally powerful power monsters. They wont stand a chance.
You talk about necrons giving teck to orks but what about, every wizard, super scientist and time traveler teaming up to create super inventions. 40k universe is powerful but they cant stop the dc universe.

[TeChameleon]

If Superhero universes are excluded (and it might be a thought to do so, since they're kind of game-breaking- DC has 52 universes to pull from, and when you've got 52 Kryptons and Daxams worth of superhumans, most other things are just kind of gonna get steamrolled... and even DC's 52 Earths might have a rough time with the-at minimum- tens of thousands of Marvel multiverses), then the Schlock Mercenary universe might have a good shot at things- they've got instantaneous transport at intergalactic distances (with enough power to work with) and weaponized gravity in the black hole range, along with a lot of the other goodies that tend to come with a high-science 'verse, like plasma cannons and suchlike.

... and of course, there's always the grandaddy of them all, the Lensmen universe. There... really aren't a lot of universes that can easily deal with FTL antimatter planets to the face.

[Anonymouswizard]

... and of course, there's always the grandaddy of them all, the Lensmen universe. There... really aren't a lot of universes that can easily deal with FTL antimatter planets to the face.

To be fair they do have to pull the FTL planets from a different universe. I never quite got how different universes had different inertial velocities. I'm syreif we'd had a book five they'd be building negaspheres in the FTL universe (not that I've even finished Children of the Lens).

Lensmen makes Skylark seem reasonable.

[awa]

If Superhero universes are excluded (and it might be a thought to do so, since they're kind of game-breaking- DC has 52 universes to pull from, and when you've got 52 Kryptons and Daxams worth of superhumans, most other things are just kind of gonna get steamrolled... and even DC's 52 Earths might have a rough time with the-at minimum- tens of thousands of Marvel multiverses), then the Schlock Mercenary universe might have a good shot at things- they've got instantaneous transport at intergalactic distances (with enough power to work with) and weaponized gravity in the black hole range, along with a lot of the other goodies that tend to come with a high-science 'verse, like plasma cannons and suchlike.

... and of course, there's always the grandaddy of them all, the Lensmen universe. There... really aren't a lot of universes that can easily deal with FTL antimatter planets to the face.

does lensmen have an rpg?
I'm pretty sure schlock does and that is one high power universe real hard to top some of the shenanigans there if the entire universe is united.

biggest possible weakness is a lack of magic and psychics but otherwise if we remove the most powerful comic book universes then it would be hard to beat late story schlock mercenary, long guns and nanite infections are op.

[KineticDiplomat]

I suspect at a certain point it becomes rocket tag. The only variety in the outcome is how badly the “winners” lost. That point probably comes where WMD (be they human, magic, “science”, actual science, super heroes...whatever) can be employed in sufficient numbers to ensure that even if one side has truly amazing assets that all of the just plain regular people and worlds will die horribly/be bloated from existence in a mutual genocide.

If we take “actually omnipotent/infinite” off the table, you end up with a few super cool dudes looking around at floating rocks.

Or, for a scaling reference, the Avengers would not actually be able to stop the old Soviet strike plans for DENMARK, let alone the real exchanges planned in the Cold War. And that’s bog standard humans with nothing special on one world in a handful of nation states.

[Quertus]

Since I forgot to mention this earlier: "giving the Orks tech", while technically an advantage of the (semi) "unified front" rule, will still take time; that is, assume that the "unified front" only starts at t=0, when the opposition could theoretically be opting to launch an attack that very moment.

The fact that you specifically referred to as "gaming universes" made me unsure of whether something like the Marvel universe or the Star Wars universe would qualify since, while there are games set in those universes, I wouldn't call them "gaming universes" myself.

Ah. I suppose... universes that have RPGs? So, yes, any Star Wars universe would qualify. I used the word "universe" to limit a given "competitor" to but a single universe, for those (like DC and Marvel, or even "normal" vs "extended universe" Star Wars) that have multiple "universes" in their franchise.

Ah, that might be my mistake. I think I focused on the "nothing infinite in numbers" and kinda missed the "capabilities" part of the sentence. Still, it might be kinda hard to draw the line between "just really, really powerful" and "infinitely powerful".

True, it could be difficult. I err on the side of, "if you cannot quantify it, assume it's infinite". That's why I discounted Q (even though I suspect he's actually finite).

Probably one of the 3.5 ones where you can't take a run action without tripping over an epic spellcaster is at least a consideration, and as with similar discussions of this nature it'll depend on the optimisation level and whether any deities bother getting involved.

Huh. I guess D&D deities aren't infinite, are they?

It's possible that Magic: The Gathering is also in the running, given the ridiculously powerful things that planeswalkers - and a few other creatures like the Eldrazi titans - can do just by feeling like it.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I hadn't actually considered MtG.

sure he could, just hurl the entire planet into the sun. Also remember the dc universe is a multi-verse everyone works together you don't just get one superman you get many.

More seriously I don't think anyone is fast enough to matter, superman has both planet destroying strength and ludicrous speed. Few weapons in the 40K universe would have both the accuracy to hit such a target and the power to hurt him. A necron or traitor marine is so slow that they are capable of missing a target with only human speed, they would logically be helpless. Now maybe a named character would have enough plot armor to not get insta gibed but with out some kind of meta mechanic to hold superman back its utterly one sided.

Well maybe not superman his no kill rule would be a problem but that's fine, their are lots of other kryptonians and other being at a similar power level, you grab every DC villain at once and throw them at a problem your Zod, and Darkseid, and Dooms day and Braniac and like a hundred other less famous but equally powerful power monsters. They wont stand a chance.
You talk about necrons giving teck to orks but what about, every wizard, super scientist and time traveler teaming up to create super inventions. 40k universe is powerful but they cant stop the dc universe.

I used the word "universe" on purpose - DC does not get its "multiverse", only one DC universe.

Superman (and, presumably, most Kryptionians) has problems with Magic though.

If Superhero universes are excluded (and it might be a thought to do so, since they're kind of game-breaking- DC has 52 universes to pull from, and when you've got 52 Kryptons and Daxams worth of superhumans, most other things are just kind of gonna get steamrolled... and even DC's 52 Earths might have a rough time with the-at minimum- tens of thousands of Marvel multiverses), then the Schlock Mercenary universe might have a good shot at things- they've got instantaneous transport at intergalactic distances (with enough power to work with) and weaponized gravity in the black hole range, along with a lot of the other goodies that tend to come with a high-science 'verse, like plasma cannons and suchlike.

... and of course, there's always the grandaddy of them all, the Lensmen universe. There... really aren't a lot of universes that can easily deal with FTL antimatter planets to the face.

Again, just 1 Superman / just one universe per challenger. Similarly, just one Marvel at a time.

FTL antimatter planets to the face?

does lensmen have an rpg?
I'm pretty sure schlock does and that is one high power universe real hard to top some of the shenanigans there if the entire universe is united.

biggest possible weakness is a lack of magic and psychics but otherwise if we remove the most powerful comic book universes then it would be hard to beat late story schlock mercenary, long guns and nanite infections are op.

Schlock? "Nanite infections" certainly sound like they could be OP...

[Keltest]

And still, with all that, we would not have enough dakka.

One does not simply have enough dakka.

Having said that, my knowledge of 40k is somewhat limited, but dont the forces of Chaos have conceptually limitless numbers, limited by the logistics of actually deploying them anywhere rather than actually fielding the armies? Which if so would disqualify them.

[Quertus]

I suspect at a certain point it becomes rocket tag.

Or, for a scaling reference, the Avengers would not actually be able to stop the old Soviet strike plans for DENMARK, let alone the real exchanges planned in the Cold War. And that’s bog standard humans with nothing special on one world in a handful of nation states.

Actually, I was planning on adding "the real world™" in as a bonus contender for calibration purposes.

But this was kinda my fear, yeah, that many worlds' offensive capabilities completely outstripped their own - and anyone else's - defenses, making this really boring and/or really bleak. And making cool actions like, "upgrade the Orks" unlikely to succeed.

Suppose, for example, that added to each world was the ability to travel to the other, and Star Wars faced off against "the real world™". The number of nukes we have... really wouldn't make much of a dent in the population of the Star Wars universe, for example. Whereas our (presumably) single planet of note makes us Death Star bait.

[awa]

I suspect at a certain point it becomes rocket tag. The only variety in the outcome is how badly the “winners” lost. That point probably comes where WMD (be they human, magic, “science”, actual science, super heroes...whatever) can be employed in sufficient numbers to ensure that even if one side has truly amazing assets that all of the just plain regular people and worlds will die horribly/be bloated from existence in a mutual genocide.

If we take “actually omnipotent/infinite” off the table, you end up with a few super cool dudes looking around at floating rocks.

Or, for a scaling reference, the Avengers would not actually be able to stop the old Soviet strike plans for DENMARK, let alone the real exchanges planned in the Cold War. And that’s bog standard humans with nothing special on one world in a handful of nation states.

schlock mercenary universe has the advantage that they can almost instantly digitize a worlds population thus preserving the civilian population even if you shoot the planet out from under them.

Even with a single universe there are dozens of superman caliber beings even if limited to only one super man. Not to mention easy accesses to time machines and time manipulation powers. If the chaos gods get to use the warp and all its demons then the dc should get to call on all its heavens and hells as well.

[Quertus]

One does not simply have enough dakka.

Having said that, my knowledge of 40k is somewhat limited, but dont the forces of Chaos have conceptually limitless numbers, limited by the logistics of actually deploying them anywhere rather than actually fielding the armies? Which if so would disqualify them.

My knowledge of WH40K is... both limited, and highly suspect, but...

Chaos has finite organic squishy things (Chaos Marines, cultists, whatever). So those can all be fielded, regardless of any other infinities.

Chaos has finite techno-heresy things (baby-powered space ships, demon breath guns, whatever). So those can all be fielded, regardless of any other infinities.

The Warp is... the psychic collective unconscious of all(most all) sentient-kind. Kinda like the Force. It can only support a finite amount of energy at any one spot (thus the ability to detect the "Bugs" by being unable to detect *anything* there, because they've munched all the bandwidth). So, infinite in size, just like space, but not infinite in power. Sounds fine so far.

The Warp can spawn demons, gods, etc. Individually, those are each of finite power. Are their numbers theoretically infinite? Maybe. But it feels to me like the warp, in toto, is actually only of finite power, just like D&D's infinite planes have only a finite population.

So, I think that you *could* mode anything from the warp's play-dough; I just don't think that you have an infinite supply of play-dough with which to manifest all the possible demons at the same time.

If I'm wrong, then WH40K does not get its demons. But that doesn't invalidate the *rest* of WH40K in this challenge / thought experiment.

[Waterdeep Merch]

Gaming include video games? Because a lot of the Super Robot Wars universes could do some serious damage. I'd be partial to Alpha for it's length and roster (including Ideon, which can solo a lot of other verses whenever it gets annoyed), but perhaps one of the games with the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would be stronger just for it. TTGL actually fought foes on it's level, while Ideon was an outlier.

If a game ever combines both those machines *and* we get a debut for Getter Emperor, that's probably going to be the power pinnacle for a mecha verse right now. The combined might of these three is enough to destroy multiverses outright, they're even good at protecting/recreating their own if necessary. And then you get some of the weirder mecha in the series, and all of their gonzo villains... We're talking a highly militarized universe filled with super science, magic, super science magic, time travel, mirror universes, and multiple powerful alien races. It's pure ridiculousness.

(Demonbane might be stronger, but I dislike that series. So I couldn't tell you much about that verse's potential beyond "kills Lovecraft's elder gods on the regular", and thus "has Lovecraft's elder gods adding to its overall strength". Apparently it was a game first)

[Friv]

I'm giving it to the Doctor Who universe. They have paradox-resistant time travel, so timeframes don't matter. The Daleks can design weapons capable of literally eradicating multiverse, the Time Lords can go back to the start of the universe and unmake their enemies, and the Cybermen built an army that required the destruction of two galaxies to stop. And all three are non-infinite species that have been utterly eradicated, mostly by each other. If they join forces to wipe out everyone else, that's curtains.

[Batcathat]

I'm giving it to the Doctor Who universe. They have paradox-resistant time travel, so timeframes don't matter. The Daleks can design weapons capable of literally eradicating multiverse, the Time Lords can go back to the start of the universe and unmake their enemies, and the Cybermen built an army that required the destruction of two galaxies to stop. And all three are non-infinite species that have been utterly eradicated, mostly by each other. If they join forces to wipe out everyone else, that's curtains.

Whether or not the Whoverse would win (I'm not that familiar with it myself), it feels like every universe capable of time travel (at least those who can actually change history rather than "just" creating alternate timelines) would have a huge advantage. Go back far enough and you could wipe out any resistance before they even discover fire.

[Lord Raziere]

Whether or not the Whoverse would win (I'm not that familiar with it myself), it feels like every universe capable of time travel (at least those who can actually change history rather than "just" creating alternate timelines) would have a huge advantage. Go back far enough and you could wipe out any resistance before they even discover fire.

Yes any being immune to such time travel tactics would have to exist outside the confines of linear time itself. I can't recall many beings that have achieved such an existence, much less one in a "gaming universe". And any who have are probably infinite in some manner.

[TeChameleon]

... yeah, weaponized time travel is pretty much a complete game-breaker.

To elaborate on the Schlock Mercenary universe (it has its origins as a now-complete and rather good space opera webcomic at www.schlockmercenary.com), it does, in fact, have roleplaying game (Planet Mercenary- previously known as 'Schlock Troops'- I can't speak as to its quality, since I've never seen it, but the author of the strip is a long-time tabletop gamer, so that's a plus).

Anyways, Schlock Mercenary; a quick rundown of what they can do for those unfamiliar.

Major Tech

- Total conversion of matter to energy with minimal loss in both controlled (Annihilation Plants for energy generation) and uncontrolled variants (Total Conversion Bombs)

- High-end gravity manipulation for both offense (ships that lose fights often end up compressed into neutronium, which is then stuffed into the aforementioned Annihilation Plants as fuel) and defense (gravitic shields, which on a large warship can ride out a supernova without undue discomfort).

- Instantaneous transport- the 'Teraport' is a wormhole-based jump drive that requires minimal power, next to no space (the initial prototype was the size of a closed fist and could jump a moderately-sized starship), and has galactic range. And while the Teraport can be shielded against, you need a specifically tuned field set to disrupt it, regular shields don't do it. And if you aren't familiar with the physics behind it, I'm not sure you'd come up with any kind of defense against it (in-universe, the guy that invented the teraport in the first place is also the guy that came up with the way to block it). Often used in 'terapedoes', which are basically insta-boom. Inside your ship. Or, if the one firing is feeling especially sadistic, inside your skull.

- Strong AI- Truly sapient AIs, which can attain borderline godlike intellect with enough processing power. Also extends all the way down to the nanoscopic level, as they have quasi-sapient nanomachines.

- Programmable nanites- can be used for everything from medicinal application to hijacking someone by overwriting their consciousness.

- Fullerene Armour- monomolecular armour that can only be consistently defeated by extremely energetic weaponry, applied via either velocity or heat.

- Powered Armour- From 'low-profile powered suits', which are bulletproof, allow flight via gravity manipulation, enhanced strength (guesstimating at about the 10 ton range... very roughly lower-end Spider-Man levels), and act as hostile environment suits, all the way up to the heavy-duty Fragsuits, which incorporate a base of the low-profile armour and add on another layer of heavy armour plate... which can separate into a dozen or so semi-autonomous drones packing heavy weaponry.

- Fabbers- sort of like slower Star Trek-type replicators. You feed raw materials into one end, get a finished product out the other. Can make basically anything they have the plans for, and 'raw materials' can be defined as broadly as 'unable to shoot back'. Range from factory-sized (for building entire starships) to small enough to be built into a fragsuit.

- Plasma Cannons- relativistic plasma fired from a handheld weapon, in a beam from 1cm wide to 6m wide at a 10m range. Sun-hot plasma coming in at a significant fraction of the speed of light equals 'ouch'. Er, well, very, very briefly ouch, then just 'gone'. Comes in orbital weapon sizes too. You probably don't want one of these pointed at you.

- Consciousness Uploading- in conjunction with the teraport, can be done very, very quickly- as in, use-it-to-evacuate-an-exploding-planet quickly. Also used as a sort of conditional immortality.

EDIT- whoops, just about forgot about a big one:

- Discontiguous Particle Acceleration System- (aka Long Guns)- galactic-range teleporting plasma cannon shots that can appear inside a target, and aren't stopped by teraport denial. For added fun, can use anti-proton plasma for double the fun (and rather more than double the boom).

- Various other sci-fi type toys in all sorts of fun flavours, since this post is already getting long.

Major Powers-

- Plenipotent Dominion- A coalition of independent AIs, merged into a single supermind. Controls the Milky Way Core generator, which is pretty self-explanatory- it uses the core of the Milky Way galaxy to generate functionally limitless power.

- F'sherl-Ganni (aka the Gatekeepers)- one of the oldest and most populous sentient races still active, they use unique hypergate technology, originally as a travel monopoly, but also as a way of manufacturing a whole lot of just about anything they like. Live almost exclusively in a series of buuthandi (lit. 'this was expensive to build'), a variant of the classic Dyson Sphere.

- Pa'anuri- Sentient dark matter entities that only interact with the baryonic universe (i.e. where the rest of us live) via gravitation. Very, very big, and prone to throwing planets and detonating stars as a diversion tactic.

- The Exo-Galactics and the All-Star- impossibly ancient, usually-consciousness-uploaded civilizations that have left the Milky Way for one reason or another and are stupidly technologically advanced, even by the standards of the setting (as an example, they took a group of uploaded sentients and downloaded them into meat bodies identical to their originals so seamlessly that they didn't notice until it was pointed out).

- Tausennigan O'benn- Cute, koala-like rabid xenophobes. They've been actively attempting to 'cleanse' the galaxy of everyone else as a matter of religious doctrine. The fact that they haven't lost yet should tell you just how much firepower they bring to the table.

- Earthlings- encompasses humans, along with a variety of uplifted critters, such as gorillas, dolphins, elephants, and chimpanzees. As can be imagined, the gorillas and elephants (especially once they've been genetically modified to have hands rather than just stumpy hoof-ish things) make for some impressive soldiers, especially in powered armour. Earthlings are also the ones who run around in Battleplates, which were designed to stop relativistic asteroids being chucked at Earth. Then they realized that with that much power and armour, they could do a lot more than just stop asteroids... That being said, they're relatively minor players on a galactic scale.


So yeah. Barring weaponized time-travel and extreme superhuman shenanigans, the Schlockiverse is a tough contender.

As far as FTL Planets to the face goes... I'll just leave this here (warning, TVTropes link... and the bit about the actual Lensmen series is under 'Literature').

[Quertus]

Wow. So, Lensman and Schlock Mercenary both seem rather OP. Can any of the other "space opera" universes compete?

I'm giving it to the Doctor Who universe. They have paradox-resistant time travel, so timeframes don't matter. The Daleks can design weapons capable of literally eradicating multiverse, the Time Lords can go back to the start of the universe and unmake their enemies, and the Cybermen built an army that required the destruction of two galaxies to stop. And all three are non-infinite species that have been utterly eradicated, mostly by each other. If they join forces to wipe out everyone else, that's curtains.

Whether or not the Whoverse would win (I'm not that familiar with it myself), it feels like every universe capable of time travel (at least those who can actually change history rather than "just" creating alternate timelines) would have a huge advantage. Go back far enough and you could wipe out any resistance before they even discover fire.

Yeah, Time Travel certainly does seem like a game-changer. I'm not really sure that Dr. Who time travel is anywhere near the top of the food chain here, though - the Doctor seems to have issues with messing with time once he's already in the middle of events. Which will be the case for this challenge.

I think that there are other universes with time travel, however, which will have a decided advantage.

(No, not Marvel - Marvel time travel just creates alternate realities; Kang the Conqueror is just about the only (non-infinite) being I know able to freely navigate these realities.)

Gaming include video games? Because a lot of the Super Robot Wars universes could do some serious damage. I'd be partial to Alpha for it's length and roster (including Ideon, which can solo a lot of other verses whenever it gets annoyed), but perhaps one of the games with the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would be stronger just for it. TTGL actually fought foes on it's level, while Ideon was an outlier.

If a game ever combines both those machines *and* we get a debut for Getter Emperor, that's probably going to be the power pinnacle for a mecha verse right now. The combined might of these three is enough to destroy multiverses outright, they're even good at protecting/recreating their own if necessary. And then you get some of the weirder mecha in the series, and all of their gonzo villains... We're talking a highly militarized universe filled with super science, magic, super science magic, time travel, mirror universes, and multiple powerful alien races. It's pure ridiculousness.

(Demonbane might be stronger, but I dislike that series. So I couldn't tell you much about that verse's potential beyond "kills Lovecraft's elder gods on the regular", and thus "has Lovecraft's elder gods adding to its overall strength". Apparently it was a game first)

... thinking about that question, I realize that it's a rather arbitrary limitation, especially given that I could just write a 2-paragraph RPG about any book / movie / concept and thereby it would technically qualify. Heck, the various homebrew RPGs I've played qualify.

[comicshorse]

Yeah, Time Travel certainly does seem like a game-changer. I'm not really sure that Dr. Who time travel is anywhere near the top of the food chain here, though - the Doctor seems to have issues with messing with time once he's already in the middle of events. Which will be the case for this challenge.

The Doctor prefers to sort things out with minimum damage (and to let people fix their own problems with a little help if he can) the Daleks and the C.I.A. (Celestial Intervention Agency) not so much