Love Letter Mafia

[Supagoof]

RIP in peace, AvatarVecna for even trying to quote it all.

Word to the wise, no one would read it even if you did.

The wolves know I am town and the townies already all agree I am town.

So it's just silly unless I miss twice in a row and or am alive on day 4 ever for any reason.

- - - Updated - - -



You can't have only 1 suspect, there are at least 2 scums remaining.

Try again.

Self focus is scummy which is why your iso is so wolfy.

You care about you more than finding suspects.

Damned if I agree with you and damned if I don't. That is a fair argument though. So be it.

Counter argument - focus on being the lightning rod to avoid getting night killed.

I also promised a parody awhile back too. Please note, my analysis is not encrypted in this, just a suggestion.

Spoiler: To the tune of "Humpty Dance" by the Digital Underground

Show

Allright - Stop whatcha doin'
'Cause I'm about to ruin
The image and the play that ya used to
I look wolfy
But yo I'm having tons of fun, see
So whole forum, I hope you're ready for me
Now gather round
I'm the true Goof in town
And my logic's hidden down in the underground
I read up all the posting that ya got on ya self
So just let me introduce myself
My name is Goofy, pronounced with a ooof, G
And townies, oh how I like to help thee
And all the players in the top ten--please allow me to spoof thee
I'm create havoc, y'all
And just like Humpty Dumpty
You're gonna fall when the wolves go to lynch me
I like to rhyme
I like parodies funky
I'm spunky. I like BeastieBoyz Brass Monkey
I'm quick wits with dis, talk Goofy smack
But sometimes I get ridiculous
I'll draw lots of aggro and the simple is,
Popo you don't know, try again with another quiz?
Yeah, I called ya wrong
Look at me, in this song,
It never stopped me from gettin' down
I'm a geek
I like to game with the room
I once had a perfect win with the canon boom,
I'm crazy
Allow me to amaze thee
They say I'm wolfy but it just don't faze me
I'm still gettin' in the my daily' voice
And I even made my own choice
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

People say "Yo, Goofy, you're really acting wolfy'"
That's all right 'cause I get things cookin'
Ya stare, ya glare, ya constantly try to compare me
But ya can't get near me
I give 'em more, see, and on the floor, be
All the townies they adore me
Oh yes, town, I'm really bein' sincere
'Cause in when it's over, my moves, will still be unclear
My trust is off, uh-uh I'm not ashamed
Distrust everyone, cause anyone they can claim,
I draw questions by the townies, ya know it's gots legs
You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs
I got stoopid, I didn't commit like I used too,
I used a word that don't mean nothin', like looptid
I sang down on the posts you liked, and if ya missed it
I'm the one who said just point at who you don't trust kids,
Also told ya that I like to bite
Well, yeah, I guess it's obvious, I also like to write
All ya had to do was give Goofy a chance
And now I'm gonna do this dance
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Oh, yeah, that's the break, y'all
Let me hear a little bit of that bass groove right here
Oh, yeah!
Now that I told ya a little bit voice
Let me tell ya a little bit about this choice
It's real easy to do--check it out

First you pick a poster that you feel is lying
Gets you hairs to tingle kinda like they were spyin'
Crazy wack funky
People say ya look like wolfiness an whack, Goofy
That's all right 'cause the fun is in motion
It's supposed to look like a fit or a convulsion
Anyone can play this game
This is my thoughts, y'all, Supagoof's my name
No two people should do it the same
Ya got it down when ya appear to be insane
Postin', thinkin', pointin'
Change around, question' ya rump
And when the dude a chump pump points a finger like a craze
Tell him step off, I'm pointin Snowblaze
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Bat people, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at a Snowblaze
Drow people, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at a Snowblaze
To the Dragons, Point at a Snowblaze, just keep pointing at a Snowblaze
Genies, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at the Snowblaze

Let's get stoopid!
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' at aSnowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Oh, yeah, come on and break it down
Once again, Supagoof is in the house
I'd like to send a shout out to the whole forum
Keep on pointing at a Snowblaze
And to the townies
Peace and Goofiness, forever

[Mr Popo]

Damned if I agree with you and damned if I don't. That is a fair argument though. So be it.

Counter argument - focus on being the lightning rod to avoid getting night killed.

I also promised a parody awhile back too. Please note, my analysis is not encrypted in this, just a suggestion.

Spoiler: To the tune of "Humpty Dance" by the Digital Underground

Show

Allright - Stop whatcha doin'
'Cause I'm about to ruin
The image and the play that ya used to
I look wolfy
But yo I'm having tons of fun, see
So whole forum, I hope you're ready for me
Now gather round
I'm the true Goof in town
And my logic's hidden down in the underground
I read up all the posting that ya got on ya self
So just let me introduce myself
My name is Goofy, pronounced with a ooof, G
And townies, oh how I like to help thee
And all the players in the top ten--please allow me to spoof thee
I'm create havoc, y'all
And just like Humpty Dumpty
You're gonna fall when the wolves go to lynch me
I like to rhyme
I like parodies funky
I'm spunky. I like BeastieBoyz Brass Monkey
I'm quick wits with dis, talk Goofy smack
But sometimes I get ridiculous
I'll draw lots of aggro and the simple is,
Popo you don't know, try again with another quiz?
Yeah, I called ya wrong
Look at me, in this song,
It never stopped me from gettin' down
I'm a geek
I like to game with the room
I once had a perfect win with the canon boom,
I'm crazy
Allow me to amaze thee
They say I'm wolfy but it just don't faze me
I'm still gettin' in the my daily' voice
And I even made my own choice
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

People say "Yo, Goofy, you're really acting wolfy'"
That's all right 'cause I get things cookin'
Ya stare, ya glare, ya constantly try to compare me
But ya can't get near me
I give 'em more, see, and on the floor, be
All the townies they adore me
Oh yes, town, I'm really bein' sincere
'Cause in when it's over, my moves, will still be unclear
My trust is off, uh-uh I'm not ashamed
Distrust everyone, cause anyone they can claim,
I draw questions by the townies, ya know it's gots legs
You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs
I got stoopid, I didn't commit like I used too,
I used a word that don't mean nothin', like looptid
I sang down on the posts you liked, and if ya missed it
I'm the one who said just point at who you don't trust kids,
Also told ya that I like to bite
Well, yeah, I guess it's obvious, I also like to write
All ya had to do was give Goofy a chance
And now I'm gonna do this dance
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Oh, yeah, that's the break, y'all
Let me hear a little bit of that bass groove right here
Oh, yeah!
Now that I told ya a little bit voice
Let me tell ya a little bit about this choice
It's real easy to do--check it out

First you pick a poster that you feel is lying
Gets you hairs to tingle kinda like they were spyin'
Crazy wack funky
People say ya look like wolfiness an whack, Goofy
That's all right 'cause the fun is in motion
It's supposed to look like a fit or a convulsion
Anyone can play this game
This is my thoughts, y'all, Supagoof's my name
No two people should do it the same
Ya got it down when ya appear to be insane
Postin', thinkin', pointin'
Change around, question' ya rump
And when the dude a chump pump points a finger like a craze
Tell him step off, I'm pointin Snowblaze
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' the at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Bat people, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at a Snowblaze
Drow people, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at a Snowblaze
To the Dragons, Point at a Snowblaze, just keep pointing at a Snowblaze
Genies, Point at a Snowblaze, Point at the Snowblaze

Let's get stoopid!
The day phase is your day, to kill Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, come on and point at Snowblaze
Do ya know at why I'm pointing', pointing' at aSnowblaze
Point at the Snowblaze, y'all come on and point at Snowblaze

Oh, yeah, come on and break it down
Once again, Supagoof is in the house
I'd like to send a shout out to the whole forum
Keep on pointing at a Snowblaze
And to the townies
Peace and Goofiness, forever

Very nice. I read all of this and I applaud all of it.

It's livening up the game and making us all friends. I hope you're town here, Goof, and you crush a wolf Snowblaze. Like, that would just be *chef's kiss* magic.

If she flips wolf, you're still the next one under fire, but then it's a thunderdome between you and Wombat.

What can Snowblaze AND THE WOMBAT (link) do for you?

But to be sure, I think Wombat is townier than both of you two. Literally prove me wrong. Literally flip 2 scums outside of your name, @ Snow, or @ Goof.

It is going to be hard to ever get town read now from your position, however.

Reason: As the game continues, the bar for what constitutes "villagery enough to remain alive" keeps getting......

[AvatarVecna]

Batcathat doesn't feel like he is hiding at all, and wants to kill a wolf every day.

I feel like Book Wombat has to be dragged unwillingly toward pointing at people that can be arrested, and has no joie de vivre.

I haven't finished all the unpairings yet but my bet is that there are people who are unpaired with Wombat already, yes.

Yesterday was absolute garbage for my solving ability, I spent almost all of it occupied elsewhere.

But I still have lots of time tonight before "someone" expires.

I have them unpaired because they have each made a statement that is plausible in isolation, but which are incompatible with each other. I guess it's possible they're w/w, but that would require wolves to be doing a bad job coordinating their lies, and I try not to assume scumteam is incompetent? But they can't both be telling the truth, so one of them is a lying liar lying out their face hole.

RIP in peace, AvatarVecna for even trying to quote it all.

Word to the wise, no one would read it even if you did.

The wolves know I am town and the townies already all agree I am town.

So it's just silly unless I miss twice in a row and or am alive on day 4 ever for any reason.

ISOs tend to be better late-game anyway, I just usually try to get them out of the way cuz I'm the biggest threat to wolves. That being said...I am holding off on yours for today for a few reasons.

1) If I die, the effort will be completely wasted, and it's a lot of effort.

2) ISOing a dead Popo who has flipped town or scum is a very different process from ISOing a live Popo whose alignment I'm unsure of.

(and also you're not wrong, nobody would ever read it anyway. Heck, I'm pretty sure you only almost got lynched D1 because people weren't really fully mentally processing your posts as it is)

- - - Updated - - -

I could get more specific about the BW/BCH thing, and I've also got a guess at Supagoof's scumslip (the one that potentially wins Popobucks), but I can't say I'm entirely comfortable trying to get solvy when my bumbling around in the dark gives wolves something to go on.

[Mr Popo]

I just want to point out, this is the New Popo Times effect on man:

Link to video.

Spoiler: STAYIN ALIVE

Show

Though Popo may die
This town is stayin' alive.

1. Popo enters the game

2. Townies: Post more, happier, more energetic, more WIM, staying in the thread talking to each other more, people finding townies and desire to solve increases:

3. Mafia: I shall do what has been sufficient in other games.

(Wait. Why am I moving further and further down everyone's POE?)

Spoiler

Show

Oh no...

Ohhhh noooo.....

I can't look, this is..... wow.

Is it night yet?

Please for the love of god just kill Emmy and get the round over with.

Emmy? SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Do not do... anything.

Emmy: You got it, boss.

Oh God he's coming for us soon, I have a bad feeling. Keep your heads down, token solving attempts, lets go.

All right, we got through the round I think....

But still, we have to say something, the entire thread is just townies talking.

-I'm not going in there with Mr. popo. Not for more than one post or so. Then getting the heck out of there.

-Agreed.

What is going on???

OH NO, HE'S HERE!!

WE CAN'T JUST LURK WE HAVE TO RESPOND!!!

RED ALERT!!!

BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS BUS!!!!!

IT'SNOTWORKING WHAT DO WE DOOOOOOOOOo

Meme! We need to meme!

We need to show we are lighthearted and carefree!

What does being carefree feel like.

Lighthearted.exe is not respoding.

Why is the bar for looking townie getting literally unreachable!?!? I can't jump that high. Nobody could.

Dang, that's one heck of an iso.

Supa, I gotta bus you dude.

That's okay, you're doing me a huge favor at this point.

Now he's lampshading it with more memes.

You need to see the seven spidermen thing, though. It is pretty funny, not gonna lie.

Hot or cold?

[Supagoof]

^@Mr Ropo. Either chilling, or chilly, or chilli? Which one has the beans again?

I can do more explanation tomorrow. I hope you survive the night. I hope I do too. Either way, I feel you deserve a parody as well, but right now my artistic plate has been tainted by the Beegees, so I can't. Ah ah ah ah staying alive...

Anyway, night will end in what - 4 hours, 5 hours, but I still won't be back until tomorrow at 8am est. So we'll see how far the push has gone against me at that point.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

After last Day's win, everything seems light.
But last Night's poison, is a large concern.
Who will still be here, to continue the fight?
When you rise next morn, you gather to learn

Poisoned victims unmoved from where they sat.
They're brought from the palace in search of aid,
They were the learned mammal: Book Wombat
with protector, attendant, the Handmaid

More allies removed, in a sudden twist!
The two brought away, had fainted from stress,
Once eager, then absent: Rogue_Alchemist,
along with our lady, the fair Princess.

Can our allies recover? Wait and see.
Once more time to discuss, begin Day 3.

Book Wombat and Handmaid Ursula, Town, were poisoned.
Rogue_Alchemist and Princess Annette, Town, fainted.

---

Day 3 Ends Friday, Sept. 17 at 11:30 PM EST /
Saturday, Sept. 18 at 4:30 AM Snow's time? /
Saturday, Sept. 18 at 5:30 AM CEST

[AvatarVecna]

...right, okay. Batcathat.

- - - Updated - - -

So here's what's been sitting in the extended signature thread for awhile now...

Love Letter by CaoimhinTheCape - Ongoing (currently on Day 1), Loyal Follower of the Princess (Town). Currently a Handmaid, previously nothing.

I don't know how much my word is worth at moment, but if it helps I checked Libro's claim and it checks out.

(So yes, I claim guard. I figured it claiming won't really hurt my chances either way).

And here is Batcathat claiming to have role-scried Libro. Which, first off, isn't the most helpful action to take anyway, but second off...we have a town handmaid (if the timestamp is truthful) and an outed Countess on D1/N1. And you...role-scried the baned Countess?

Initially, I just put it down as an unpairing; we can't have both of these claims as truth. One of them is necessarily a lie. Either the baner isn't actually a baner (and your scry went through because we didn't have town baners), or they baned the only person it really made sense to bane (and you're lying about checking Libro for easy towncred when you know neither Priest could report on your N1 targeting to verify such an action).

- - - Updated - - -

I could get more specific about the BW/BCH thing, and I've also got a guess at Supagoof's scumslip (the one that potentially wins Popobucks), but I can't say I'm entirely comfortable trying to get solvy when my bumbling around in the dark gives wolves something to go on.

This would be correct, as I don't check my PC very often on the weekends. Need to get back into the habit of checking the site from my phone.

Worse though is I did not get a night action in. So I'm sitting here guessing based only on the townreads. I likely would have targeted Rogan because other people I would have targeted (who are Snow - because she is very good on both sides of the coin in these games, BCH - because he has peeked my interest as being very good in these games, or Mr. Popo - let's see what the new guy is doing) I would choose not to target right away since being second to lowest on action resolution would likely have resulted in no result - given the interference and such.

I will happily thrown myself on the sword for such a misstep, as that does move forward with what my role is - guarding the princess. But since I can do more good alive then dead, let's see who is pinging as suspect this time after I have a chance to catch-up in more detail...

The first bold section could be read by somebody as referring to priest (which has rank 2 for action resolution), provided they forgot that Mafia has rank 0 for action resolution (and the second bolding implies that Supagoof did indeed mean Guard, not Priest).. But I could see somebody in Popo's situation getting set off by that line:

"I got roleblocked N1 because I'm being very solvy D1. Therefore, I was roleblocked by scum. Whoever roleblocked me is now the priest, and the other priest is dead. Therefore, priest is scum. Supagoof is claiming second-lowest action resolution, which is the priest rank, therefore Supagoof is claiming priest. Therefore, Supagoof has accidentally claimed scum"

That said, Popo pointed out a bunch of other stuff that made this post ping his scumdar, so I might just be totally wrong on this and it was one of the other things instead. But that's what stuck out to me on a re-re-reading of my ISOs.

- - - Updated - - -

****. ISOs. I'm gonna have to ISO Popo now. Couldn't wolves have just killed me instead.

[Batcathat]

Huh, that's unexpected. Now I really wish I hadn't done an ISO on BW in preperation for today. Posting it anyway, since I already have it, but the conclusions are obviously mostly wrong.

Spoiler: ISO on Book Wombat

Show

Talking about mechanics:
When going through BW's posts, I decided to try dividing the post up by topic. Some quotes might be under multiple headlines.

I have a thought, what if the Princess or Countess role is currently not in use? The role descriptions do not appear to say if they will always be in use at the very beginning, only that if someone gains the role they will not be able to change it.
If the Queen's Servants know that one or both roles are missing they could easily fake-claim. Just speculation but who knows?

Another thought, the Countess' role seems to like it's her purpose to sacrifice herself for the Princess after the reveal.

I didn't really suggest the Countess should sacrifice herself for the Princess after the reveal, I was remarking that the only thing a Countess can do after the Princess' reveal is either sacrifice herself or not as all other actions are blocked.

Lots of mechanical talk which the wise elders tell me is a bad sign. I guess I can see why that is, but in this case there was quite a bit of mechanical talk in general, including from myself. Overall, not a great look but not necessarily wolfy.

Explaining/defending themselves:

Uh, yeah. I only reloaded the page at around 11 o'clock and posted half an hour later so I missed the part where Mr. Popo called me out.
Probably sounds a bit suspicious, oh well.

I honestly didn't see your post calling me out before posting. Probably wouldn't voted if I had seen it.

This could of course be a lie to make me look more Town, up to you what to think.

EDIT: Addition to my previous post.

In at least the past ten games my first vote was random. In this game it was no different. Most other players should know about this.
EDIT: Oh, whoops. Past nine games.

Don't have much to say about the other things.

I didn't really suggest the Countess should sacrifice herself for the Princess after the reveal, I was remarking that the only thing a Countess can do after the Princess' reveal is either sacrifice herself or not as all other actions are blocked.

I don't like how this is the largest group. As I said about Snow, I tend to see being overly defensive as wolfy (based mostly on myself). Explaining what was meant is one thing but the other ones don't look great. I could see it as more towny if BW was under lots of pressure but I don't think that was the case?

Joking:

Sugapoof? Sugar puffs? Sounds sweet.

What can I say, it comes naturally ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Not much to comment on. Jokes could be a way to seem active without contributing but if making stupid jokes was wolfy I should probably lynch myself.

Other:

The die favours Rogan not.

Somehow Mr. Popo feels off to me, might be all the layers. Dunno.

Vote Count:
Batcathat (1): Supagoof
Supagoof (1): gac3
Mr Popo (3): Libro, JeenLeen, Book Wombat
JeenLeen (5): Batcathat, Snowblaze, bladescape, Mr Popo, AvatarVecna
EmmyNecromancer (1): Xihirli

Not voting (3): EmmyNecromancer, rogue_alchemist, Rogan

Hopefully nothing wrong.

I kinda like the fact that I usually seem a bit suspicious but not enough to warrant a lynch.
Voting for EmmyNecromancer too I guess?

Vote Count:
Rogan (2): gac3, Supagoof
EmmyNecromancer (4): AvatarVecna, Mr Popo, Xihirli, Book Wombat
Book Wombat (1): Snowblaze

Posted but didn't vote (2): Batcathat, Rogan
No posts today (3): EmmyNecromancer, rogue_alchemist, Libro
Out (2): JeenLeen, bladescape

The random first vote seems normal. Voting Popo at the time makes sense, as does voting Emmy later. But aside from the votes there's barely anything contributing to the discussion. It's similar to Supagoof but seems to contribute even less despite more posts.

His behaviour between days changes a bit, he is less willing to comitt now than he was before. But he has a good explanation: He is partly responsible for the death of a townie, since he started the Jeen case. This case was wrong, but it still was a good case.

I like this. A wolf could have used my fairly drastic change in confidence to strengthen their existing case against me but instead Rogan draws his own conclusions about it and reevaluates his earlier view. Feels towny, but I suppose my paranoia about a wolfy Snow wanting me around for the endgame could be true about Rogan too.

I am surprised about your order regarding the wolf reads. You have BookWombat lower than Emmy? Why?

While I didn't love what I'd seen from BW, I felt that Emmy's non-talking action was a big enough red flag. If I had done my ISO on BW before that, I would probably have reversed the order though.

...right, okay. Batcathat.

- - - Updated - - -

So here's what's been sitting in the extended signature thread for awhile now...

This looks bad, no doubt about it. My only guess is that BW actually protected themselves on N1. Will have to think on this.

- - - Updated - - -

The first bold section could be read by somebody as referring to priest (which has rank 2 for action resolution), provided they forgot that Mafia has rank 0 for action resolution (and the second bolding implies that Supagoof did indeed mean Guard, not Priest).. But I could see somebody in Popo's situation getting set off by that line:

"I got roleblocked N1 because I'm being very solvy D1. Therefore, I was roleblocked by scum. Whoever roleblocked me is now the priest, and the other priest is dead. Therefore, priest is scum. Supagoof is claiming second-lowest action resolution, which is the priest rank, therefore Supagoof is claiming priest. Therefore, Supagoof has accidentally claimed scum"

I don't think that's how the King works. The rules says "Each night, the player with the King may choose one other player in the game. They will switch roles so that the targeted player becomes the King and the original player gains a new Role." To me, that sounds like the original King gets a role from the unused ones, not their target's old role.

[AvatarVecna]

I don't think that's how the King works. The rules says "Each night, the player with the King may choose one other player in the game. They will switch roles so that the targeted player becomes the King and the original player gains a new Role." To me, that sounds like the original King gets a role from the unused ones, not their target's old role.

Do you have a different definition of "switch roles" than I do?

[Batcathat]

Do you have a different definition of "switch roles" than I do?

I do not, I somehow skipped over that part and focused on the second part. I should know better than trying to analyze the rules this early in the morning. Objection withdrawn, your honor.

[AvatarVecna]

Dan is the King, Ellie is the Prince, Frank is the Guard.
Dan targets Frank, Ellie targets Frank, Frank guesses "Dan is the Handmaid".


In turn order:

Dan's ability works. Frank becomes the King, Dan becomes the Guard.

Frank's action (guessing Dan as the Handmaid) is currently invalid.

Ellie's ability works. Frank must discard his current card (King) and gets a new one. This new card happens to be a Guard.

On Frank's turn, his action (guessing that Dan is the Handmaid) is valid again and works as normal, even after al of the role switching.

"Dan is the King. [...] Frank is the Guard."

"Dan's ability works. Frank becomes the King, Dan becomes the Guard."

That's pretty straightforward, I think.

[Batcathat]

"Dan is the King. [...] Frank is the Guard."

"Dan's ability works. Frank becomes the King, Dan becomes the Guard."

That's pretty straightforward, I think.

Yes, yes, no need to rub it in.

[AvatarVecna]

Yes, yes, no need to rub it in.

Post was made before I saw your reply. That said, your scrambling attempt to convince us the Priest isn't scum has been noted.

[Mr Popo]

...Book Wombat and Batcathat are town/scum. Not technically clear which is which to me at this point, but I'm sure Popo has some corroborating evidence against Book Wombat (and, unless I miss my guess, already knows why this particular pair can't be on the same team).

I reached a tentative conclusion mid night phase that Book Wombat, while not being particularly villagery, was still a villager, because their iso suggested no path to victory for a scum Wombat.

[Snowblaze]

As promised, Supagoof.

The thing is, Supagoof's partner isn't Book Wombat now. And it's definitely not me. So someone has been miscleared.

My availability for IRL today will depend on whether the WiFi starts working again, but:
a) Go through Batcathat again, working out whether their motivations make sense from a wolf PoV. The mechanics stuff is bad but I don't know if it outweighs the strength of my earlier townread.
b) Work out which of my townreads I'm confident in and which I could be misclearing.
c) consider town!Supagoof worlds. This implies scum!Mr Popo which... *screams of wild paranoia* I really don't want to have to contemplate. Actually, before that,
c)i) work out whether there's actually a plausible chance of Supagoof being town or whether I'm just being paranoid.

[Mr Popo]

Snow, go ahead and full claim everything about yourself mechanically.

[Batcathat]

Post was made before I saw your reply. That said, your scrambling attempt to convince us the Priest isn't scum has been noted.

Fair enough. Stupidity should have consequences, even when it's my own.

c) consider town!Supagoof worlds. This implies scum!Mr Popo which... *screams of wild paranoia* I really don't want to have to contemplate.

If nothing else, I do agree with your paranoia (he said to his number one suspect ), though I'm currently questioning AV rather than Popo. AV certainly could be a townie drawing entirely reasonable conclusions from the evidence at hand (Note to self: Must start checking extended signatures) but I could also see a wolf finding a perfect way to get a mislynch without looking especially bad afterwards.

[Snowblaze]

Snow, go ahead and full claim everything about yourself mechanically.

Sure. Started off as a Prince, targeted Xihirli night one (on the grounds that I had no clue what to do with my role and I figured she wouldn't mind the chaos), tried to target Batcathat last night but was kinged (which must have been you; incidentally you've now ruined all of my RP plans) and I also have a QT with Xihirli now.

[Batcathat]

Sure. Started off as a Prince, targeted Xihirli night one (on the grounds that I had no clue what to do with my role and I figured she wouldn't mind the chaos), tried to target Batcathat last night but was kinged (which must have been you; incidentally you've now ruined all of my RP plans) and I also have a QT with Xihirli now.

Aw, I could've had something more useful than the world's most limited scrying power? Stupid king.

[Mr Popo]

Sure. Started off as a Prince, targeted Xihirli night one (on the grounds that I had no clue what to do with my role and I figured she wouldn't mind the chaos), tried to target Batcathat last night but was kinged (which must have been you; incidentally you've now ruined all of my RP plans) and I also have a QT with Xihirli now.

Beautiful.

BEAUTIFUL.

Oh, my dear "Princess", who I accused of being loyal to the "Queen".

I have got your genders all reversed. You were a Prince and now you're a King.

[Snowblaze]

Actually I'll start by working through the non-tinfoil worlds, ie AV/Mr Popo/Batcathat all town and Supagoof wolf (implying gac3 town as well)

Which means his partner is one of Rogan/Xihirli.

Got to go now, will work on those possibilities later.

[Rogan]

Huh, that's unexpected. Now I really wish I hadn't done an ISO on BW in preperation for today. Posting it anyway, since I already have it, but the conclusions are obviously mostly wrong.

<Snip >

<Question about read list ( Snow, Emmy, BW ) >

While I didn't love what I'd seen from BW, I felt that Emmy's non-talking action was a big enough red flag. If I had done my ISO on BW before that, I would probably have reversed the order though.

< Questioned about the target >

This looks bad, no doubt about it. My only guess is that BW actually protected themselves on N1. Will have to think on this.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't think that's how the King works. The rules says "Each night, the player with the King may choose one other player in the game. They will switch roles so that the targeted player becomes the King and the original player gains a new Role." To me, that sounds like the original King gets a role from the unused ones, not their target's old role.

Good morning. Short (I hope) Pre-Work post.

Your post above is giving me mixed signals.

Pro:
You prepared an ISO about the night kill. A wolf seems unlikely so so, since they would know the player will be about to die.
Even if they did an ISO, it would not come to your conclusion. They would say something like "no strong reasons, but leaning town".
This would make them seem more accurate about their feelings.

Contra:
You placed Emmy in the middle of your list. If you felt she was the most likely target, shouldn't you place her at the bottom? Or did you sort the list using some other criteria?

I have no idea why book would self target in this situation. There was a countess to protect. And even if he were to go for the option of "No need to protect Libro, he would be too obvious " there would have been better targets than himself. He was unlikely to get killed anyway. And we know, neither Mr Popo, nor blades were protected. So, unless someone is willing to claim to have targeted book and got the blocked feedback or someone targeted Libro and got a successful feedback, I am going to assume Libro really was protected.
If you were lying about your action, I hope you have some good reasons.

The confusion about the king power was discussed by AV already. In contrast to her, I see it as NAI.

---

Claiming power and result should usually be a big NoNo in this game. It would help the wolves to get the full picture more than town. In your situation it still seems better to do it. You did claim before, after all. So, is there anything you want to tell us?

Spoiler: Serious Claim, very important

Show

Claim: The princess was someone who nobody could have suspected. Unfortunately, RA was locked town for other reasons.

[Snowblaze]

Beautiful.

BEAUTIFUL.

Oh, my dear "Princess", who I accused of being loyal to the "Queen".

I have got your genders all reversed. You were a Prince and now you're a King.

Lol. I posted in my personal QT something along the lines of "technically I'm not lying by claiming Princess, it's the gender-adjusted version of my actual role".

[Mr Popo]

And here is Batcathat claiming to have role-scried Libro. Which, first off, isn't the most helpful action to take anyway, but second off...we have a town handmaid (if the timestamp is truthful) and an outed Countess on D1/N1. And you...role-scried the baned Countess?

Initially, I just put it down as an unpairing; we can't have both of these claims as truth. One of them is necessarily a lie. Either the baner isn't actually a baner (and your scry went through because we didn't have town baners), or they baned the only person it really made sense to bane (and you're lying about checking Libro for easy towncred when you know neither Priest could report on your N1 targeting to verify such an action).

On reading this post, I have the following thoughts:

1) I don't immediately see the connection, one claim is a handmaiden and the other is the bog standard guard role, which is the lowest rank tier.

2) Reading the rest of the post to see if someone else claimed handmaiden somewhere.

3) Perhaps AV is a handmaiden.

4) That still doesn't seem right because it is phrased like the viewer should immediately understand.

5) I have had a few hours of sleep between being awake for 30 hours and I need to get sleep now before work. Maybe my brain is just not up to snuff at the moment.

6) I am not going to be able to sleep until I get this.

7) It has to be something someone operating at full capacity and not in the know, could know.

8) Reading the Guard role:

"Each night, choose one player and guess what their role is. You will be told if you are correct or not."

Okay, sounds simple enough.

9) The priests are dead.

10) No, there is a priest, the mafia stole it from me.

11) Okay, that means they can lie without worry.

12) I do not understand how that proves Batcathat is guilty.

13) This shouldn't be that hard, dude. It's obvious to someone who has gotten sleep. Wake up and get it.

14) Read the handmaiden role.

"Each night, choose one player (you may choose yourself). No further actions against the target resolve."

15) Yeah, but the handmaiden would have to be targeting Libro for that claim to be a lie.

16) I do not get it, and I need to be asleep like 14 minutes ago.

17) re-read the entire thing yet again.

"And here is Batcathat claiming to have role-scried Libro. Which, first off, isn't the most helpful action to take anyway, but second off...we have a town handmaid (if the timestamp is truthful) and an outed Countess on D1/N1. And you...role-scried the baned Countess?

Initially, I just put it down as an unpairing; we can't have both of these claims as truth. One of them is necessarily a lie. Either the baner isn't actually a baner (and your scry went through because we didn't have town baners), or they baned the only person it really made sense to bane (and you're lying about checking Libro for easy towncred when you know neither Priest could report on your N1 targeting to verify such an action)."

Alright, so that means exactly that.... The handmaiden would have to not be protecting the Countess who claimed day 1.

But Book Wombat has read all the claims and has been active since day one.

And the Princess died last night, so the countess should be protecting the Princess and the handmaiden(s) should be protecting the Countess, if any.

We do have a handmaiden, and they can protect people other than the Countess.

18) Wait, we have someone who can protect people other than the Countess? and the Countess protects the Princess? That's a lot of doctors.

19) I thought the handmaidens always targeted the Countess, like the Countess always protects the princess.

20) An active Book Wombat who is protecting the outed Countess will prevent someone from peeking Libro.

21) Hang on, "previously nothing". If he wasn't handmaiden N1, then it's not incriminating on Batcathat.

"Currently a Handmaid, previously nothing."

How can someone be previously nothing.

22) Well, he died and is town, so this is some version of the truth, complete or not.

23) Previous nothing meaning, tracking how often his role got switched. Which was never, according to him.

24) Okay.... then what?

25) Then he was handmaiden already on night one, and therefore used the handmaiden action to protect the outed countess.

26) Which means after the first priest is dead, and the second priest claimed day one (Popo) and the power was stolen from him, that means there are no more ways of tracking who arrived at whom's location.

27) So if someone who is not a guard were to need to make a fake starting claim, they could claim to be a guard, and never have that claim be challenged anymore.

28) That's remarkably smart of AvatarVecna.

29) That was fast.

30) Too fast, wouldn't this information be brand new, as of less than 30 minutes old? Book Wombat just died.

31) No, because (A) AvatarVecna is literally never mafia by cold read, or I lose infinity Popo funbucks forever. And (B) AvatarVecna has literally been doing unpairings since day 2 at the latest.

32) Therefore that's not TMI that is a legitimate solve, by someone who has been beasting the cold reads of the game side by side with me.

33) So BatCatHat is lying and there is no more pro town reason to lie, Princess is dead and Countess claimed. No other roles are so important as to lie about them.

34) So anyone unpaired with BatCatHat strongly should be town.

35) I am now 30 minutes past my bedtime.

36) There is more to this entire post.

Second half of this post:

I will happily thrown myself on the sword for such a misstep, as that does move forward with what my role is - guarding the princess. But since I can do more good alive then dead, let's see who is pinging as suspect this time after I have a chance to catch-up in more detail...

Supagoof original quote.

No, although that solve is coincidentally clever, because it happens to be the second action from last, this is incidental to my point:

37) Supagoof's decision making process was to out himself as a town doctor, essentially, (guarding the princess implies a handmaiden type role, but in my mind, the handmaiden only targets the Countess.)

38) Why would a townie instead of hunting wolves want to out themselves as an important night kill target?

That shouldn't be step 1. Step 1 should be finding townies and finding scumbags and solving the game, and if absolutely forced to do so by a large wagon on oneself, then claim.

That sort of claim by a scum is usually meant to deflect attention off of oneself. And because the scums have role stealing and roleblocking roles, you can always claim your awesome protective power got stolen from you and that's why you were never killed.

39) So it is a very un-villagery mindset: I won't have my power stolen, I won't be night killed, I can claim to avoid being yeeted into the sun, and that is what the purpose of my being a handmaiden is!

40) Or, I can get a handmaiden to counterclaim.

41) There are 2 handmaidens at game start, so it not even necessarily forces a counterclaim.

42) Game setup wise, a "powerless goon" could be given a handmaiden role as a cover role. It is worthless to the scums but it cannot be counterclaimed.

43) Strategically, and game balance wise, if the real handmaiden is forced to claim, the mafia know who to block, who to murder, whatever the case may be, because they already HAVE a handmaiden.

44) Game Host Popo knows that having 2 handmaidens is OP for town.

45) Get owned, Supagoof.

46) And lol me for letting BatcatHat into my town.

47) And that explains why blocking Snowblaze while publicly accusing Supagoof did not result in me being night killed but someone else was in fact night killed.

48) Also, the existence of a handmaiden who can target anyone they want including themself means I shouldn't have been anywhere near certain I would die last night.

49) And boy, howdy, was I certain. Ask gac3.

50) Snowblaze and Supagoof literally cannot win the game if they don't do something about me.

51) One of Snow and Goof is town.

52) Of the two, Snow has way, way more Popo funbucks to play with.

53) Even if there is a fourth scumbag remaining, it shouldn't be:

Myself (Lock clear)
AVecna (Never, townier than the uncounterclaimed countess.
Gac3 (Never, actions make zero sense as wolf)
-------------------------------------------------------
Libro (Can be scum when the setup has no countess) 99 percent lock unless Goof is a miss.
Rogan (for their read of Xi) 98 percent lock and probably in contention to overtake Libro.
Xihirli (numerous reasons) 95ish percent sure.
Snowblaze (now) If there's a fourth scum then maybe, but I don't think Goof and Snow win the game based on being forced to bus each other. That's bogus.

Leaving:

1. BatCatHat
2. Supagoof

- - - Updated - - -

Actually I'll start by working through the non-tinfoil worlds, ie AV/Mr Popo/Batcathat all town and Supagoof wolf (implying gac3 town as well)

Which means his partner is one of Rogan/Xihirli.

Got to go now, will work on those possibilities later.

You literally missed the part where AV caught out BatCatHat being essentially lock scum, and I understand why.

It took me 52 minutes to process it all out and arrive at my previous post.

It took me THAT LONG to think and type it out.

And anyone who has a POV of no information can EASILY miss it and think oh, AV is just tinfoiling Batcat over some claim stuff that isn't lock guilty.

No, he found a wolf in my cleared pile and the game is over unless there is 4 mafia at start.

[Batcathat]

You prepared an ISO about the night kill. A wolf seems unlikely so so, since they would know the player will be about to die.
Even if they did an ISO, it would not come to your conclusion. They would say something like "no strong reasons, but leaning town".
This would make them seem more accurate about their feelings.

While that is the truth, it would also be a kinda clever (if possibly obvious) wolf move to go all "Oh, I most certainly didn't know Book Wombat was gonna die, look at all the work I did in vain".

You placed Emmy in the middle of your list. If you felt she was the most likely target, shouldn't you place her at the bottom? Or did you sort the list using some other criteria?

I'm not sure what you mean, was the list supposed to be from the least suspect to the most suspect? My intention was to label Snow, Emmy and BW my number one, two and three suspects

I have no idea why book would self target in this situation. There was a countess to protect. And even if he were to go for the option of "No need to protect Libro, he would be too obvious " there would have been better targets than himself.

Sure, it's entirely possible BW protected someone else, all I know is that he didn't protect Libro.

[Mr Popo]

Batcathat is guilty
Supagoof is guilty

Because everyone else got spewed town by some method or means.

Snowblaze just jumped EVEN HIGHER because I realized she has to have a POV of no information not to have gotten that Batcat is caught.

She spewed herself innocent by the reading incomprehension towntell and there is no way it is fake because I only BARELY caught it by churning my brain at maximum processing.

100 percent disk, and it still took an hour.

Batcathat dies today always

Supagoof dies tomorrow unless someone has something else to say about it.

Got a third suspect? Tell me who and why.

- - - Updated - - -

While that is the truth, it would also be a kinda clever (if possibly obvious) wolf move to go all "Oh, I most certainly didn't know Book Wombat was gonna die, look at all the work I did in vain".

Yes, actually good wolfing.

Bravo. I was getting worried. Also, I badly need sleep and it's clear my brain is not built for solving by mechanics first, since I never once absorbed and bothered to comprehend all of the town power roles' usages properly.

Spoiler

Show

I focus on vanilla games and avoid all powers games if I can.

[Batcathat]

Batcathat is guilty
Supagoof is guilty

Because everyone else got spewed town by some method or means.

Then I'm sorry to say you made a mistake somewhere along the way (or you're a wolf and I'm even more sorry ). Isn't part of your big process to ask yourself "Is there some way this suspected wolf could be town?" or something like that? Because the only thing necessary for me to be town is for BW not to use their power in the most rational way.

I get why I look very suspect, I do, but keep the above in mind and at least look at alternate possibilities.

[AvatarVecna]

[Mr Popo Stuff]

I will try to explain my case a bit more straightforwardly by taking things in a timeline of events, since my earlier post wasn't as clear as it could be, and Mr Popo's brain melting on the page probably isn't the best way to understand the case either:

0) A basic understanding of the handmaid role tells you that town!maid wanting to target the Countess by default unless you have somebody else you think will get targeted for some reason. On general principle, if you get lucky and bane the Countess, it's like you baned the princess as well. That's double-bane. So if you're a town!Handmaid, you want to bane the Countess. But also, after D1, Libro was the outed Countess, so now not only do you know who you should be baning normally, wolves know how to make the princess vulnerable to dying in the night. You need a phenomenally good reason to bane anybody besides Libro if you're the town baner N1.

1) Book Wombat edits their signature to include the following line: "Love Letter by CaoimhinTheCape - Ongoing (currently on Day 1), Loyal Follower of the Princess (Town). Currently a Handmaid, previously nothing." We know exactly when this occurred, because the post has a little line at the bottom that reads "Last edited by Book Wombat; 2021-09-11 at 06:10 AM." That time/date is closest to this post in the game thread, which is approximately two days into D1. So, before N1 even happened, Book Wombat had hardclaimed Handmaid, albeit in a place almost nobody would think to check (and, as we would later learn, a place where Mr Popo wouldn't even be able to look without mucking around in the forum settings).

(note: this is what it says on my version of the forum, which is calibrated for my time zone. That would be 6:10am central standard time. For clarity, it is approximately 2:30am CST right as I'm making this post.)

2) Sometime during N2, I open up BW's signature, and a handmaid claim is staring me in the face. I close the page and do not mention this to a single living soul, because I understand that Libro is the outed Countess, and the only thing keeping Libro from dying and the Princess being made vulnerable is that nobody knows who the handmaids are. I also figure that, if Libro dies in the night, I can pull Book Wombat up to the gallows and very calmly ask why they didn't bane Libro. If Libro lives, then BW isn't necessarily innocent or guilty, and I don't intend to mention it unless I get a solid reason to risk outing our baner.

3) A ways into D2, Batcathat makes this post claiming that they are the guard and they targeted Libro N1. I'm a little upset that this is the second person in a row to essentially claim vanillager for no reason and with no real proof since the priests are out of commission.

4) A ways into N2, I have a sudden realization about the implications of points 0 through 3 above: Book Wombat is claiming Handmaid (and thus either baned Libro or is scum), while Batcathat is claiming Guard who scried Libro. Either of these claims can be true in isolation, but if Book Wombat is the handmaid and baned libro like a good townie, then Batcathat is lying about the scry. If Batcathat scried Libro, then either Book Wombat isn't the handmaid, or they are but they didn't bane Libro for some reason. So I make this post alluding to all this, on the assumption that Popo has seem some of this already and it's why he suspects Book Wombat. If Popo is right and I'm alive in the morning, I will post this for everybody to see and we can add Batcathat/Book Wombat to our pile of thunderdomes to test.

5) D3 arrives with Book Wombat dead, and confirmed as the townie handmaid.

Following Popo's advice from earlier in the thread, I tried to think of ways I could be wrong, and there's only one (which Batcathat pointed out themselves): the only possible way Batcathat isn't guilty as sin is if Book Wombat (confirmed town!handmaid) targeted somebody other than Libro N1. That's the only way. And putting myself in BW's shoes...no. Generally baners will self-bane N1 because they don't have a better target...but BW had a better target. One could maybe argue BW baned Popo (and that doesn't conflict with Popo getting King'd since King can't get blocked by the Baner), but I feel even that just pales in comparison to the need to keep the outed Countess from getting ganked N1.

I'd like today to not be a waste of 48 hours while we wait around for BCH to hang and flip. I'd very much like us to continue discussing and debating other people to kill. But unless somebody can make a solid argument that Book Wombat might have baned anybody except Libro, BCH is where our votes have to be.

I shall now return to the pain that is ISOing Popo (although I suppose I'm cheating a bit by ISOing him in a different way than everybody else).

[gac3]

There are a lot of long posts to read so that will have to wait until after work. Until then... I had a full plan for today centered around Me. Popo's death but now I don't know how to spend the day. I guess I'll see why Bat is suddenly suspect number one and go from there. This seems like it is going to turn out to be quite an interesting day.

[Supagoof]

Oh fun, I couldn't sleep. So I come to check the thread. 20+ posts since the night ended, roughly 5 hours before I said I'd be back. This is why I avently post that I'm town, because I dislike how the bandwagons start while I'm not around to go post by post to defend.

The first bold section could be read by somebody as referring to priest (which has rank 2 for action resolution), provided they forgot that Mafia has rank 0 for action resolution (and the second bolding implies that Supagoof did indeed mean Guard, not Priest).. But I could see somebody in Popo's situation getting set off by that line:

"I got roleblocked N1 because I'm being very solvy D1. Therefore, I was roleblocked by scum. Whoever roleblocked me is now the priest, and the other priest is dead. Therefore, priest is scum. Supagoof is claiming second-lowest action resolution, which is the priest rank, therefore Supagoof is claiming priest. Therefore, Supagoof has accidentally claimed scum"

AV gets the gold. I claimed second to lowest on action resolution. I do consider Guard (1) to be above Mafia (0), did not take priest into consideration, but they would be third to lowest.

As promised, Supagoof.

You're still not cleared in my book Snowblaze.

The Mafia have these roles and are subject to switching. If a Mafia member whose role is the Baron is targeted by either the King or Prince their Role will change and will most likely lose their action (because of the targets they tried to select as Baron).

That said, if the Mafia player mentioned above is performing the Mafia kill it will still go through. Role switches (from the King or Prince) won't interrupt the Mafia kill - the only abilities that can affect the Mafia kill are the Handmaid's protection and the Countess protecting the Princess.

Supagoof dies tomorrow unless someone has something else to say about it.

I have something to say about it. Your assumptions are off. Granted, right now you are probably tired. I know that when I had both of my sons, those first years were rough. I get "being tired". My firstborn was crying in the night, so my wife nudge me to check on him. I went got him, and was holding him, and she got up saying he was still crying. I said I had him right here, and reached for the bundle in my arms. I had grabbed a blanket, thinking it was him, in my fugue state. He was still in his crib. And he is now 9. That is why I stepped away from the forums for such a long time, and am just getting back now (cause both of my children won't kill themselves without immediate supervision, yay). Happy time ahead for you. And to help frame some things up....

Back then...
WW games were running week after week, often with the option of being in a possible 4 games at a time. This lead me to be more active as I was, in a bunch of games, without family care as a part of the time.
Bandwagons started with little logic, so I learned to be defensive first, solve next. Still a habit of mine
"But being selfish is wolfy" - see point above. I have not adjusted to the "Solve first to be town" yet.

And now, a few other thoughts.
For my point on Snowblaze above, the Mafia is not it's own role. I find is highly sus that your plan to "king Snowblaze" and block the wolf kill, "if not - then it's gotta be Supagoof", to be a a wrong plan in the solve. If the assumption is 3+ mafia, then 2+ left means blocking 1 won't stop a kill since the other can perform it. And the more obvious thing is - it's clearly written in the first post that specific action will not work. See quote above.

I looked at Gac3 last night, and was successful in figuring out his role. I will confirm my action with Gac3's permission. I won't out his role, without his consent.

- - - Updated - - -

Fine - Snowblaze is off for now.

BatCatHat - AV's logic is very solid.