Obi Wan Kenobi - Disney+ Series

[Dragonus45]

I watched one of the movies of cutscenes that’s available, and I really enjoyed that. It’s the perfect scope for the story it tells—meaningful to the characters and the innocents they save, but not on a scale that competes with the overall galactic narrative.

Also, I’ve been listening to Sugaan Essena for a couple of years now, nice to finally see how it’s used in-universe. (“Hey, I know that song!”)

Yea the shortness was more a feeling from playing it. I guess if you cut it together like a movie it would feel better paced? Either way it was still good.

As for the appropriateness of this as a series? I don't know. I sort of gave up on all of that. All of this. A billion jedi survived the purges and I don't care anymore. Anakin Skywalker had an apprentice who turned out too popular to kill off like they needed to be for the story to make any sense whatsoever and I don't care anymore. Boba Fett is... I can't even right now and I don't care anymore. I can think of good reasons why Obi is off running around the Rim, and I can think of awful ones. We will see what we get, and I will just have to shrug and hope it doesn't detract from the quality of the show itself. Because canon is a lie and I'm that newest trilogy broke me.

[Telwar]

To be fair, no series or movie needs to be made. Ever, entertainment is a luxury product. But a lot of people wanted to see Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan again.

The assumption I have for this series is:
* Somehow the Empire gets wind of Obi-Wan on Tatooine (he probably visibly uses the Force with witnesses or something).
* Empire goes after Obi-Wan; he is one of their most wanted escaped Jedi, after all.
* Obi-Wan goes off world to lead the inquisitors away from being able to discover Luke.
* Obi-Wan manages to fake his own death after some lightsaber duels, possibly including one with Vader (though I don't actually think they'll do that, to make the line "when I last left you I was but the learner..." still make sense).
* Obi-Wan then goes back to Tatooine to hang out and neglect his skin care routine.

I am cautiously looking forward to this. Since they have Fifth Brother as one of the inquisitors showing up, I am half expecting a cameo of Sarah Michelle Gellar painted green playing Seventh Sister.

[Saintheart]

.
* Obi-Wan manages to fake his own death after some lightsaber duels, possibly including one with Vader (though I don't actually think they'll do that, to make the line "when I last left you I was but the learner..." still make sense).

That at least is still possible. In ANH Vader's whole thing is that he's surprised to sense Obi-Wan's presence, and when Tarkin scoffs that surely he must be dead by now, Vader replies "Don't underestimate the Force." You could still put a faked death for Obi-Wan in there, because Vader won't come looking for someone he thinks is already dead. They may try for Anakin leaving Obi-Wan (he thinks) to die, hence the words "when I left you I was but the learner" fit.

Still going to be clunky as hell, though.

[Keltest]

That at least is still possible. In ANH Vader's whole thing is that he's surprised to sense Obi-Wan's presence, and when Tarkin scoffs that surely he must be dead by now, Vader replies "Don't underestimate the Force." You could still put a faked death for Obi-Wan in there, because Vader won't come looking for someone he thinks is already dead. They may try for Anakin leaving Obi-Wan (he thinks) to die, hence the words "when I left you I was but the learner" fit.

Still going to be clunky as hell, though.

I think the best possible outcome we could reasonably hope for here is that Obi-wan is running from Vader the whole time, trying to throw him off the scent, and eventually succeeds without ever actually meeting him in person.

There's some room for it, since Obi-wan needs to learn a bit about Vader's current state as a cyborg (as well as being Anakin) somehow, and Vader obviously knows Obi-wan is still alive since their last meeting, and would have a rather personal interest in finding him.

[dancrilis]

... Obi-wan needs to learn a bit about Vader's current state as a cyborg (as well as being Anakin) somehow ...

I think he found out when he saw a recording of Palpatine calling Anakin Vader in the video below, and that he was able to deduce that Lord Vader and Darth Vader were one and the same when Yoda told him that Darth Vader consumed Anakin and thereby that Anakin was Darth Vader.

Spoiler: Video from RotS

Show

[Fyraltari]

Thought exercise, attempt to describe the state of the Galaxy post Rise of Skywalker in a way that makes any sense at all. The farthest I can get is Palpatine is dead. Again. Maybe it will stick this time.

Hmm sounds fun, let me try:

Following the destruction of the First/Final Order, there is an initial push to form a Third Galactic Republic, spearheaded by the surviving leaders of the Resistance. However, the corruption of the late Old Republic, the incompetence of the New and the brutal tyranny of both the Empire and the First Order have created a strong feeling of distrust against the idea of a centralized galactic government. This, coupled with the absence of anyone with the charisma, political acumen, established reputation and drive of a Mon Mothma or a Leia Organa within the Resistance, as well as the near-complete obliteration of its chain of command, leads to the attempt failing very quickly with almost all of the various planets seceding or refusing to take part in it.

For the first time in millenia, the galaxy is left without the majority of its territory under the rule of a single government. This results in the formation of thousands of states ranging in size from a single autonomous mining settlement in an asteroid to polities spanning hundreds of worlds. Some of the most notable are Hutt Space, the Core Federation, the Galactic Confederation, Mandalorian Space, the Chiss Ascendency and the Corporate Sector.

The Core Federation is the remains of the Resistance's ill-fated attempts to re-establish a Republic, as the Core Worlds were the most favorable to a central government since they were those who profited the most under them. Many of their leaders still long for the days of the Republic (and there's a lot of Empire apologists too), but due to the memory of the Empire, they have taken a "soft power" approach to foreign policy. Their economic power still allows them to weigh heavily in the politics of the wider galaxy, especially in the Outer Rim.

The Galactic Confederation is, perhaps surprisingly, the truest successor to the Old Republic active, despite modelling itself after the old Separatist Alliance and being made up, almost entirely, of former CIS states. They are in near-complete denial over Separatist crimes and hold the CIS up as a proto-Rebel Alliance fighting a proto-Empire. Dooku is seen as a wise and benevolent leader who foresaw what the Republic was turning into as well as the failings of the Jedi and who wished to create a state true to their ideals, before being crushed by the hated Palpatine. His turning to the Dark Side, a still relatively unknown fact, is decried as war-time Republic propaganda. Despite all this, the leaders of the GC are mostly genuine in their beliefs and their young state is relatively free of corruption, making it the most successful democratic experiment within the Outer Rim.

Mandalorian Space is once again united around a strong leader. Mandalore the Renewer has declared a return to the glory days of the Mandalorian people and sworn bloody vengeance upon the Core Worlds for the destruction of Mandalore under the Empire. Once again, the Outer Rim lives in fear of seeing Mandalorian ships appear in the sky to bring war and death to their world.

The Chiss Ascendency was not spared by the brutal onslaught of the First/Final Order but managed to weather the storm. The Ruling Families wasted no-time in mounting a swift counter-attack after the battle of Exogol and have now conquered most of the initial territory held by the First Order. Now believing themselves to be the true bastion of order in the galaxy, the Ascendenscy has launched a series of wars of conquest against its neighbours to claim proeminence on the galactic stage. However, many amongst the Aristocra see this departure from their usual isolationnist policy as a terrible mistake and oppose it with utmost intensity. The chiss population is bitterly divided about this, not that anyone asked it its opinion.

The lack of a unique government has been both a blessing and a curse for the various crime syndicates as there is no longer a unified police response to their crimes but bribery can no longer buy them officials in charge of overseeing entire sectors. Mostly operating out of Hutt Space ,they fight among themselves for control of the spice trade in the Outer Rim.

Megacorporations are making a killing selling weapons and other goods to the various new states who can no longer rely on a centralized government. Most of them have significantly boosted their defense budgets and factories are once more churning out war droids by the thousands. On a related note, the cloners of Kamino may have run out of Jango Fett genetic material, but their reputation is made and many have turned to them to purchase a battalion or two of elite soldiers.

The leaders of the Resistance may have failed to resurrect the Republic, but they will never give up fighting for freedom. To combat these many threats (and piracy), a vast number of Outer Rim and Mid Rim states have formed the Galactic Defensive Alliance, a unified military structure lead by High Commander Poe Dameron and Head Diplomat Rose Tico. Many were skeptical of what seemed like a transparent rebranding of the Third Republic, but the GDA's success in the Trandoshan-Wookiee war and against the Pykes Syndicate (most notably, the liberation of Kessel) have silenced most naysayers. There has been a recent push to welcome the Core Federation into the GDA, but there are fears this would turn its members into vassal systems of the Core.

The Inner Rim is doing fine.

While it is generally agreed that the last of the Jedi died in the battle of Exogol, there are many rumours of lightsaber-wielding figures showing up throughout the galaxy to turn the tide when things seemed at their most desperate and many young hopefuls have left their home in search of Rey Skywalker to become Jedi Knights.

[Lord Raziere]

sounds like the best rpg setting for star wars I've ever heard. lots of enemies, open sandbox, lots of potential plothooks and places to go rather than than just one republic or empire, there is a lot you can do with that.

[Clertar]

In a couple of years we'll get YODA, a miniseries where we will discover that master Yoda in fact also didn't stay hidden away practicing monastic lifes, but he actually went on a desperate adventure to save his illegitimate son Grogu, whom he believed dead, when he finds out that the child is in the possession of the Empire. After tossing around CGI Tarkin and also Darth Vader, the elderly Jedi grandmaster once again suffers defeat at the hands of the Emperor, who has grown even stronger in the dark side of the Force. Defeated one final time, Yoda goes back into hiding, and nobody ever sees him again. Or do they?

[Fyraltari]

sounds like the best rpg setting for star wars I've ever heard. lots of enemies, open sandbox, lots of potential plothooks and places to go rather than than just one republic or empire, there is a lot you can do with that.

Aww, thanks, you're too kind. I relaized this started to sound like a game setting halfway through and decided to just roll with it. Could probably find a better moniker than "the Renewer" for the new Mandalore, though.
But really, my thought was that yet another return to the statu quo ant bellum would be the most boring thing possible (and also the most likely to happen, because Star Wars hates progress) and the TRoS did not end with the establishment of a New ?ew Republic (I think. I wan't far from brain-death at the end of the movie and I wouldn't put it past Abrams) so wouldn't it be fun if that didn't happen?

And the sandbox and plothooks comes from the Galaxy Far, Far Away being a pretty big place already full of bad guys who are not just going to turn a new leaf because a pasty dude in a robe bit the bullet (again).

[Dragonus45]

Hmm sounds fun, let me try:

Ohhhhh, I might have my next Star Wars campaign right here.

[Fyraltari]

Ohhhhh, I might have my next Star Wars campaign right here.

Ah! If so, you have to let me know how it turned out.

[warty goblin]

In a couple of years we'll get YODA, a miniseries where we will discover that master Yoda in fact also didn't stay hidden away practicing monastic lifes, but he actually went on a desperate adventure to save his illegitimate son Grogu, whom he believed dead, when he finds out that the child is in the possession of the Empire. After tossing around CGI Tarkin and also Darth Vader, the elderly Jedi grandmaster once again suffers defeat at the hands of the Emperor, who has grown even stronger in the dark side of the Force. Defeated one final time, Yoda goes back into hiding, and nobody ever sees him again. Or do they?

I'll accept this if and only if we get a flashback revealing Yoda's lady friend was a total babe, and Yoda was secretly an absolute player in the worst possible way.

"Mmm, luminous in the Force that booty is. Extends my lightsaber it does."

Pimp Yoda: the hero you don't deserve but absolutely need.

[Fyraltari]

Also, I forgot:

sounds like the best rpg setting for star wars I've ever heard.

Permission to sig?

[Dragonus45]

Ah! If so, you have to let me know how it turned out.

... I once ran a game set in a Sith Academy where the players were Sith attempting to winnow down the pool of potential apprentices to ensure they would graduate. I had one of the instructors, who herself was sporting a fair amount of prosthetics, pontificate at length about the power of pain and loss and blah blah blah Sith stuff and when a player asked her to clarify she asked him to hold out his arm. He did, and then was actually surprised what happened. I promise you, if or when I run that game "how it turned out" is probably going to end with half the Outer Rim accidentally on fire.

[The Glyphstone]

... I once ran a game set in a Sith Academy where the players were Sith attempting to winnow down the pool of potential apprentices to ensure they would graduate. I had one of the instructors, who herself was sporting a fair amount of prosthetics, pontificate at length about the power of pain and loss and blah blah blah Sith stuff and when a player asked her to clarify she asked him to hold out his arm. He did, and then was actually surprised what happened. I promise you, if or when I run that game "how it turned out" is probably going to end with half the Outer Rim accidentally on fire.

Does that imply the other half will deliberately be on fire?

[Fyraltari]

Does that imply the other half will deliberately be on fire?

Er...

Their economic power still allows them to weigh heavily in the politics of the wider galaxy, especially in the Outer Rim.

Mandalorian Space is once again united around a strong leader. Mandalore the Renewer has declared a return to the glory days of the Mandalorian people and sworn bloody vengeance on the Core Worlds for the destruction of Mandalore under the Empire. Once again, the Outer Rim lives in fear of seeing Mandalorian ships appear in the sky to bring war and death to their world.

Now believing themselves to be the true bastion of order in the galaxy, the Ascendenscy has launched a series of wars of conquest against its neighbour to claim proeminence on the galactic stage.

The lack of a unique government has been both a blessing and a curse for the various crime syndicates as there is no longer a unified police response [...]they fight among themselves for control of the spice trade in the Outer Rim.

Megacorporations are making a killing selling weapons and other goods to the various new states who can no longer rely on a centralized government. Most of them have significantly boosted their defense budgets and factories are once more churning out war droids by the thousands. On a related note, the cloners of Kamino may have run out of Jango Fett genetic material, but their reputation is made and many have turned to them to purchase a battalions or two of elite soldiers.

the Trandoshan-Wookiee war

...

It already is.


Edit:

... I once ran a game set in a Sith Academy where the players were Sith attempting to winnow down the pool of potential apprentices to ensure they would graduate. I had one of the instructors, who herself was sporting a fair amount of prosthetics, pontificate at length about the power of pain and loss and blah blah blah Sith stuff and when a player asked her to clarify she asked him to hold out his arm. He did, and then was actually surprised what happened. I promise you, if or when I run that game "how it turned out" is probably going to end with half the Outer Rim accidentally on fire.

Sounds fun!

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, I was talking about Dragonus's game idea - I'd scrolled past your concept pitch entirely.

[Fyraltari]

Yeah, I was talking about Dragonus's game idea - I'd scrolled past your concept pitch entirely.

Fair enough.

[Dragonus45]

Yeah, I was talking about Dragonus's game idea - I'd scrolled past your concept pitch entirely.

I was talking about his pitch idea though, I was just mentioning a different game I ran for this group to ensure the baseline stupid of this party could be made clear.

[Lord Raziere]

Also, I forgot:


Permission to sig?

Sure why not. I say it because all the other options I know of are literally set during some canonical period of time, or during KOTOR with no actual effort to do anything but ape a story that has already happened.

[Androgeus]

T(though I don't actually think they'll do that, to make the line "when I last left you I was but the learner..." still make sense).

Honestly one of my favourite things in any franchises EU material is the tenuous excuses they make for doing the 'cool' stuff they want to do but would be against canon.

[Fyraltari]

Sure why not. I say it because all the other options I know of are literally set during some canonical period of time, or during KOTOR with no actual effort to do anything but ape a story that has already happened.

Yes. But I'm pretty vain.
Still, I would like Star Wars not to be afraod of change so much.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

PERSONALLY I loved Rogue One. I went into it knowing nothing about the filming and only seeing glimpses of trailers. Boy was it not what I expected and in a good way.

Whoever made that movie needs to be shown Tora Tora Tora non stop for a week, paired with the Greyhound peeps, given a corporate expense account and set loose on a Taffy 3 flick and a movie focused on the QE Warspite.

[Mechalich]

Yes. But I'm pretty vain.
Still, I would like Star Wars not to be afraod of change so much.

Star Wars actually has a better case for being afraid of change than most other franchises. Every time it tries to go outside the highly archetypical box established by the Original Trilogy the results have been at best extremely mixed. It is especially noteworthy that every villain that isn't either the titular Empire or an alternative version of said Empire (such as those encountered in KOTOR & TOR) has been lackluster at best, utterly comical at worst. Even in 'fringe' stories that take place at the edges of major events it's always helpful if there's some evil Empire in the background, something that's a feature of several of the more successful comics runs (ex. the KOTOR comics and Dr. Aphra).

Disney's already accumulated a history of these kinds of failures in its custody of the franchise. Book of Boba Fett, Solo, the High Republic, these were all high profile attempts to do something different, and they all failed. Meanwhile extremely conventional moves like Mandalorian, Rebels, and Rogue One succeeded.

Considering the immense cost of putting together a live action TV series in the Star Wars universe I'm not at all surprised that Disney is somewhat gun shy at this point and keeps well within the lines. I think, in order for a more unusual approach to happen in Star Wars television (or film) it's going to need an already established success to draw upon. It's not a great set of circumstances, and it's going to be hard to overcome the track record.

[Clertar]

Creatively, the way Disney's SW franchise is runing is almost diametrically opposed to how its MCU is. In the MCU, the creators are very constrained by hundreds of existing stories in the comics and have to walk a fine line of being allowed to creative and tell new stories without deviating more than the fanbase can tolerate. Eg. even praise for Tom Holland often comes with a "that's not my Spider-man" caveat.

With SW, which is largely a clean slate, they are afraid of exploring genuinely new ground and cling way too closely to the existing characters and stories, doing almost exclusively sequels or prequels to existing characters, which gives the whole enterprise a fanfiction aftertaste. And yet, the arguably biggest success for SW in recent years was the result of coming up with a brand new character that was not pulled from the movies or the cartoons, the Mandalorian.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Clertar
With SW, which is largely a clean slate, they are afraid of exploring genuinely new ground and cling way too closely to the existing characters and stories, doing almost exclusively sequels or prequels to existing characters….

Certainly agree with this much. Not sure about the fanfic comparison, since recent disappointments (Solo, Rogue 1) work in their own space, just...not very well.

Originally Posted by Clertar
And yet, the arguably biggest success for SW in recent years was the result of coming up with a brand new character that was not pulled from the movies or the cartoons, the Mandalorian.

Except from the very first episode they paired him with a mini-me of one of the most iconic characters in all of Star Wars. Technically “new,” but it ends up smothering the show in green CGI cuteness.

I really enjoy Mandalorian, because live-action Star Wars series, but including Lil’ G isn’t the direction I would’ve gone.

[Fyraltari]

Star Wars actually has a better case for being afraid of change than most other franchises. Every time it tries to go outside the highly archetypical box established by the Original Trilogy the results have been at best extremely mixed. It is especially noteworthy that every villain that isn't either the titular Empire or an alternative version of said Empire (such as those encountered in KOTOR & TOR) has been lackluster at best, utterly comical at worst. Even in 'fringe' stories that take place at the edges of major events it's always helpful if there's some evil Empire in the background, something that's a feature of several of the more successful comics runs (ex. the KOTOR comics and Dr. Aphra).

Disney's already accumulated a history of these kinds of failures in its custody of the franchise. Book of Boba Fett, Solo, the High Republic, these were all high profile attempts to do something different, and they all failed. Meanwhile extremely conventional moves like Mandalorian, Rebels, and Rogue One succeeded.

Dunno about High Republic but the problems with BoBF and Solo really didn't stop at the antagonists or trying something new. And look at how the ST turned out by rehashing the classics.

Except from the very first episode they paired him with a mini-me of one of the most iconic characters in all of Star Wars. Technically “new,” but it ends up smothering the show in green CGI cuteness.

Baby Yoda is a practical effect, not CGI.

[Sapphire Guard]

I wouldn't say High Republic has failed, it's still in the air. We'll have to see what happens when the TV show comes out.

Mando is not particularly new ground or creative. Take the base Mandalorian design, change it slightly, take the Yoda design, change it slightly (to the point where they even keep the brown robe), and then have your Mandalorian (bounty hunter with a unique ship who has the standard Mando bag of tricks) and give him Baby Yoda. Do the 'grizzled veteran protecting important child while slowly opening up' plotline which is a staple of Westerns.

Re: Post TROS, yeah, splitting the galaxy into factions is basically the only option at this point. Of course, that's very likely to be a complete bloodbath, which isn't much of a happy ending.

Re: the trailer, it's solidly made enough, could do with more creativity in the visual design, a lot of humans in brown in the background, could do with more aliens and CG.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fyraltari
Baby Yoda is a practical effect, not CGI.

Doesn’t alter my point, though.

Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
Mando is not particularly new ground or creative. Take the base Mandalorian design, change it slightly, take the Yoda design, change it slightly (to the point where they even keep the brown robe), and then have your Mandalorian (bounty hunter with a unique ship who has the standard Mando bag of tricks) and give him Baby Yoda.

This indeed.

That said, the show has given us a look at a very different subculture of Mandalorians, and it should get credit for that. And while it may not be glistening with the sheen of pure innovation, it’s solid Star Wars fun, which also counts for a lot.