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Thread: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-27, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-27, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Looking at the nanofoam scene again I don't see anything approaching that level of fine control/aiming. At best he'd have garnished or coated Thanos' head. It also froze from the outside so this tactic may not have worked in-atmo even had he thought of it.
(Is that the same foam he uses later to patch up his stab wound?)Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-27, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by Keltest
I cant imagine that Thanos would politely hold still for that to happen.
Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
I now want to see a nanotech facehugger drone that sprays the nanofoam.
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2021-07-27, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Sure, or they use a portal to drop him into the sun while he's asleep. Or cut off his hand. Or a million other solutions that would have totally worked except didn't because "reasons" that the audience has to ignore to make the scene work.
Turning off your brain to make the scene work has always been an intrinsic part of the MCU experience.Last edited by Anteros; 2021-07-27 at 04:46 PM.
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2021-07-27, 05:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by Anteros
Turning off your brain to make the scene work has always been an intrinsic part of the MCU experience.
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2021-07-27, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
...reasons being that HWR needed Stark to invent time travel tech for Nathanial Richards to rediscover to start Kang's multiversal war which HWR wins. Every timeline in which the snap does not happen, gets pruned. Every timeline where Stark does not survive, gets pruned. And Strange knew it, if he was trying his close time loop trick and the TVA kept showing up.
Last edited by Rakaydos; 2021-07-27 at 07:19 PM.
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2021-07-27, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-28, 01:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
"We learned new information" != "retcon."
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2021-07-28, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
His tech has been pretty amazing. And they did lean pretty hard on "hit him harder" as a strategy. Dr Strange was pretty much the only one to actually get creative with his powers. Trying to suffocate him seems like a decent thing to try. It doesn't necessarily have to work, but I do enjoy fight scenes with creativity.
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2021-07-28, 08:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Pretty much every comic book fight ever has an element of, "Why didn't Character X do Y," and it never seems to occur to the asker that the answer is they didn't think about it. Especially if it's some off-the-wall tactic that they've never done before.
Tali avatar by the talented Thormag.
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2021-07-28, 09:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Originally Posted by Sholos
Pretty much every comic book fight ever has an element of, "Why didn't Character X do Y," and it never seems to occur to the asker that the answer is they didn't think about it.
So I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect him to have more creative strategies than “punch harder.”
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2021-07-28, 09:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
1) He did. In both the initial gambit that Quill messed up and the one-on-one fight, Tony was quite creative. Thanos overwhelmed him with force (including several direct hits from the Power stone - a planet-buster I'll remind you), severely damaging his suit in the process.
2) How long can Thanos hold his breath? As long as Thor, who could survive for hours in hard vacuum? As long as Hulk? Longer?
Rather than assuming Tony didn't think of something and was dumb for it, I find it more valuable to assume he did think of it and rejected it as pointless (which it very likely would have been.) *points at sig*Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-28, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
My big complaint with Tony in that movie wasn’t the ‘punching harder’ problem, it was the ‘let’s fly this spaceship back to where the bad guy expects it to be, he’ll never see that coming!’ bit before they actually got into the fight.
We could handwave away the in-battle tactics - Stark’s only got one known quantity on his side at that point, the Guardians of the Galaxy don’t really do plans, and he’s on a planet that doesn’t have his satellites in orbit, any of which might have hampered his combat effectiveness - but when you purposely take yourself out of reach of your known allies and most of your resources to put yourself in that situation in the first place…
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2021-07-28, 11:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Sure, he's a real smart cookie, nobody's gonna deny that. But what's more important is that it's impossible to have a prepared response for everything on-hand and in the front of your mind. Tony's armor is also more or less built for a "hit harder" strategy, even if the hardest hits are extra flashy. Even DIO got caught off-guard and outmaneuvered.
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2021-07-28, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
They had a teleportation guy with time manipulation, and they decided not to use either to make the fight be impossible to lose
Many people were holding the "idiot-stick" in infinity war. They could have always restocked and bring the best armors to Titan, they choose not to do so.Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-28 at 11:39 AM.
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2021-07-28, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2021-07-28, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
To be fair to the Teleporting Time Guy, he did look into several million futures to see what plan of action was going to win against Thanos. I would assume that if teleporting and time manipulation was going to help make the fight impossible to lose, he would have done so. :3
While I agree that it was a dumb idea, it wasn't out of character for Tony to do that plan. This is the same impulsive Tony that immediately attacked Thor in the first Avengers movie when Thor grabbed Loki from the jet.Last edited by DigoDragon; 2021-07-28 at 11:57 AM.
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2021-07-28, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
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2021-07-28, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-28, 12:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-28, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Tony was trying to keep the time stone off Earth by not flying back there. Thanos wouldn't be above leveling a city to get them to turn it over, or just heavy collateral damage in general.
No doubt they'd have tried to do the same with the Mind Stone if the means of separating it from Vision weren't in Wakanda.
Also that.
She made it for the military, they just didn't get a chance to figure out what to do with it yet. It's not like they were going to hand it over to the postal service.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-28, 12:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-28, 01:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Fair, but here is the thing about assumptions, at any time I can pull an anchorman to the camera and say "I don't believe you."
And I am saying I do not believe it, but that is okay I turned off my brain and I know there is a storyteller pulling the strings and sometimes giving me bullocks rationalizations much like my parents did when I was 6.
They have a "friendly neighborhood Spider-Man" to be a gopher. They record instructions, addresses, etc into Karen or whatever they are calling the Friday replacement, and they tell Peter to go find Wong and to go find Pepper, and Wong provides the return trip. Ironically all this stuff is in New York, Peter's home turf!
Then Strange does his time divination, including rewinding time and doing it again and again since we do not know if the Time Stone has any limits like a limited amount of fuel, the person who is using it needs to sleep, etc.
Tony even wanted his surrogate son to be safe earlier in the trip with the big giant space ring. He changed his mind, but I bet he would be okay with a "reloading" trip since worse case scenario Peter is safe, and best case scenario they get more firepower to perform their 1 chance combat encounter.Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-07-28, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-07-28, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
A gopher to where? There's nowhere on earth they could stash the thing that Thanos wouldn't eventually find it. Tony's call was logical.
I'm aware, but that's obviously not what she told the Air Force when they paid for it, let her use the Cube to make it, and loaned her two of their top pilots to test drive it.
My point is that it's premature to conclude it would have all ended up sunshine and roses even if the thing hadn't quite literally blown up in Carol's face.Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-28, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
I mean there's a difference between "this could have gone wrong for unspecified reason" and "this was presented as a bad thing to do".
Mar-Vell's use of the Space stone was presented as altruistic in intent, and her intent and actions were not presented as being naive or otherwise inappropriate.
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2021-07-28, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
I was saying fight on Titan, but bringing in all those extra armors Tony has stashed through a Stephen Strange / Wong gate so Tony has more firepower. It has been 5 years since Iron Man 3 with the House Party Protocol, bring over a Hulkbuster armor with you if you are going to go against the Mad Titan (plus 100 other more dakka)
Bring the kitchen sink. What is the line from The Wire? "You come at the king, you best not miss."
My point here is this is a secular struggle, there is no ultimate God providing providence saying there will be "redemptive energy" making sure the Hero lives, and through the hero "justice will prevail" restoring the goodness of the world.
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Except 3 years later with different writers we learn there is a god. He is He Who Remains, he is a normal human, going by the name "Mr. Richards" and he is worse than Hitler
And we can't stab him without thinking things throughLast edited by Ramza00; 2021-07-28 at 02:50 PM.
Stupendous Man drawn by Linklele
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2021-07-28, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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2021-07-28, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
Can't really argue with this since I don't disagree.
Ground-based stuff like the costume cannon in Avengers HQ could have been doable. Not sure about the Hulkbuster satellite or anything in orbit - what's the speed of an orbiting satellite? I feel like that could cause complications. The sling ring instructions in Dr. Strange were to visualize the destination but the Iron Spider suit probably has some sort of photo capabilities since its predecessor did, so maybe Stark could include pictures of all the stuff he wanted moved.
But all of that - finding Wong, talking to Pepper, explaining the plan to everyone, getting the stuff in place - takes a sufficient amount of time (Infinity War was, what, a couple of days from beginning to end, tops?) I'm still inclined to think he'd be better off going to them than the other way around, and take the time instead to grab every superhero and military power that could be mustered for backup.
Or, failing that, take the ship off into a completely random direction, so Thanos and his posse at least have to look for them.
But do not hand-deliver the Maguffin directly to the Big Bad.
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2021-07-30, 04:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Loki (2021)
The Loki thread has once again forgotten that it is the Loki thread.