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2016-02-09, 10:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
"...he knows he saw his mom..."
This is, in fact a dead contradiction of my interpretation of the "happy, fulfilling blur" from #666, and the only way to get it without the tweets is to assume that (1) he finished the jambalaya in the clouds and (2) he assumed that the jambalaya must have actually have been made by his mother, rather than that heaven had included some jambalaya that happened to taste just like what his mom used to make.Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?
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2016-02-09, 11:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
We don't need the tweets to know that Roy remembers seeing his mom - with more detail than he would like, in fact. It's in #670. So between #666 and #670 we have a pretty complete picture. What's left is, where did he finish his food exactly? I know the Index has recorded a lot of tiny, tiny details already, but this would be a new record, I think.
DM in Mummy's Mask I, II, III | Keshkaru and Ozkrak in Extinction Curse | Marzena in Age of Worms | Elrembriel in Wrath of the Righteous | Gurmok in Nightmare in Katapesh | DM in Catacombs of Ravenloft Avatar courtesy of Neoseph7
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2016-02-09, 11:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I agree that the quotes add information that's not entirely clear in the comic.
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2016-02-10, 12:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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2016-02-10, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Thread lurker coming out to say I definitely support the inclusion of the tweets, as I remembered both comics where he talked about his memory of the afterlife clearly and still didn't get that he had as detailed recollections as the tweets indicate (I had interpreted it as "knows he saw his family and that his mom got busy, because some things are too mindscarring to forget, but no real details beyond a vague blur of emotions").
I think it's less clear from the comic than the caster of a certain scrying orb, at least, and that's like the ur-example of why this index is a thing.Last edited by DaggerPen; 2016-02-10 at 01:17 AM.
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2016-02-10, 05:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Another lurker checking in to say that I don't think the tweets add anything that can't be interpreted from the comic. They weren't news to me.
With that said, I'm on the side of having too many quotes in the index rather than too few.Last edited by Cizak; 2016-02-10 at 05:17 AM.
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2016-02-10, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I disagree. I don't think it's at all obvious from the comic. I spotted the apparent contradiction, and was actually about to ask the same question myself, when I saw it had been asked and answered. Without the tweet, I wouldn't have known the answer.
My opinion is that it should be included..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
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2016-02-10, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
In my opinion, it doesn't matter how "obvious" the comic makes it, only that it is explicit. If someone asks, we can point them to those exact lines on those exact pages to answer the question of how much he remembers without any need to bring up a tweet from the Giant. Its the same issue we had with the comic where the demigod priests all walked into the room; the information is there even if people aren't seeing it the first time.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-02-10, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2016-02-10, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
And this thread exists to answer those questions when they come up again later.
Someone has asked a question about this, presumably because it was unclear to that person.
Either:
A) This was the only person on the internet who has ever and who will ever think this issue was confusing, or
B) This question will come up again later.
Considering that there are already about 4-5 people in this very thread (myself included) who were helped by the tweets, I seriously doubt A is true. And when someone inevitably asks this question again, we have 2 options:
1) Have the relevant quotes indexed so that we can easily help this person, or
2) Spend an hour combing through Rich's old tweets to try and find the answers.
Since, again, this thread exists so that we don't have to do #2 (that sounded bad) whenever someone asks a question, I say we keep it.
I understand YOU aren't confused by it, but other people are. And judging by this thread alone, those who sound confused by it make up a significant minority, if not a majority. So presumably any new readers to the comic (or seasoned readers who are re-reading the strip at a later date) will fit a similar profile, in that a significant number of them will be helped by these tweets.
If there were only 1 person confused by it (even if that one person was me), I would vote to ignore it. But since that is not the case, any argument that "it's not confusing" is obviously only subjective, and not a universal fact, so it should be kept regardless of how clear it is to some people.Last edited by littlebum2002; 2016-02-10 at 10:34 AM.
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2016-02-10, 10:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Rich's tweets provide more information than comic 666. Comic 666 is a bit fuzzy on whether the elevator counts. It also says that beyond the gate is a just a blur (a big happy fulfilling blur). I interpreted that as meaning Roy did NOT remember he'd seen his mother.
While the word "blur" certainly leaves room for that interpretation, it also leaves room for the interpretation that specific people are not remembered. It is thus ambiguous, and the tweets clarify the ambiguity. Hence they provide additional information that was not in the comic.
If someone asks, pointing them to 666 leaves the ambiguity. The tweets should be included.
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2016-02-10, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-02-10, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Littlebum, of course I don't doubt that the question can come up again.
3) Point to the comic or comics that contain the explicit answer to the question.
I agree #666 on its own isn't enough, but if you add #670 I believe you have the full picture, unless you really worry about the elevator part, which wasn't the question in the first place.
Exactly right. As far as I can see, the combination of #666 and #670 makes the answer explicit - not more and not less than Rich's tweets.
The question on Twitter was this: "I thought Roy couldn't remember specifics of the afterlife". A possible answer is to point to Rich's tweets. Another, equivalent answer is: "Much is fuzzy (see #666), but he can remember certain specifics, such as what his mom what doing up there (see #670, panel 1)".DM in Mummy's Mask I, II, III | Keshkaru and Ozkrak in Extinction Curse | Marzena in Age of Worms | Elrembriel in Wrath of the Righteous | Gurmok in Nightmare in Katapesh | DM in Catacombs of Ravenloft Avatar courtesy of Neoseph7
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2016-02-10, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
If only that were true. But it is not - you can spend quite a bit of time looking through the OP of this thread for a quote you are sure it is there, fail to find it, use the search function of the forum/google, find it through it, then come back and check that, indeed, the quote is there but paraphrased in a way you did not expect or missing key words or in a different section. This has happened to me more than once - since the search function came back, I find Giant's post faster through the search function than through this thread.
In any case, I oppose adding the tweets because the primary source (666 & 670) are clear enough.
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2016-02-10, 01:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I did not see the references to 670. They weren't there when I read this discussion the first time, and I read it later on my phone and must have scrolled past them. That clears up the mom issue.
So I agree the fuzzy mom quote is answered by the comic and that tweet is unnecessary. The elevator issue still seems ambiguous to me, but I'm not sure it matters for everything, since the only thing that happened in the elevator was a joke and momjalaya-eating.
Explicitness and obviousness can be related. Some conclusions that have been described as "obvious" in fact require quite a few steps to extract from the comic, with implicit assumptions about, for example, SRD rules, that might not be warranted.
That's not in play at all here, but I wanted to weigh in on the general rule, too.
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2016-02-10, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-02-10, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-02-12, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Looks like the tweets settled into vote-able range....So the tentative list is now:
The OotS Strips in Gygax Magazine Will Be in a Collection Someday #1020 01/22/2016 Tentative, appears will be included without vote. Blackwing's Explosion in #1020 is a Scroll Activation Mishap
Furthermore, the writing on the scroll reads "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY".#1020 01/22/2016 Tentative, appears will be eligible for vote. On the Ephemerality of Memories from the Afterlife
Roy can remember anything that happened in the clouds, and the rest is "fuzzy" but not completely forgotten.#1022 02/08/2016 Tentative, appears will be eligible for vote.
The subject's come up before, but I'm not sure there's any way to tell how useful it'd be unless someone actually makes it.FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-02-12, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I vote to include all of them.
Last edited by ReaderAt2046; 2016-02-12 at 04:18 PM.
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2016-02-12, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2016-02-14, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I got the impression from 666 that all Roy could remember from beyond the gates were warm feelings and a vague idea for a sword trick. So I took the mom comment in 670 as a joke. The tweets clarified things for me, so I support their inclusion.
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2016-02-14, 07:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-02-14, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2016-02-14, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-02-14, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I won a thread. Am I pathetic to list that in my signture? Yes. Of course I am.
Awesome avatar is awesome. And made by yldenfrei.
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2016-02-14, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
I thought that the text was a joke, so I didn't think that my assumptions contradicted the text. Pointing to the text would not have changed my mind. The tweets changed my mind. So, there is at least one case in which the tweets helped someone understand the comic better. Presumably two, including the person who asked the question that the Giant was answering.
Is it really that wrong to assume that someone would say something just to be funny in The Order of the Stick?
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2016-02-14, 11:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
Chiming in to add that before the tweet I honestly thought that part of the punchline with the joke about Roy's mom was that even though he remembered nothing else beyond the gates but a vague sense of satisfaction, seeing his mom as an attractive young woman with a half naked man leaving her house was just that mind-scarring.
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2016-02-15, 06:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
While I think it's reasonable to have believed that Roy remembered nothing specific about Celestia after coming back to life until #1022, I also think we can point to the text of #1022 itself when anyone is confused. The tweets aren't worth archiving, IMO.
Number of Character Appearances VII - To Absent Friends
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2016-02-15, 06:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2016-02-15, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium