OOTS #597 - The Discussion Thread

[Warren Dew]

Speaking of V's threat, I wonder how Elan could possibly have misunderstood it. Sure, it was a syntactical snarl even by V's standards, but the sheer drama of the threat should've made it perfectly intelligible for Elan.

What should have been understandable was "Vaarsuvius is mad at me." That was already obvious before the threat, though. I think what we see is Elan trying to understand the actual logic, and failing.

[Lissou]

Poor V. He needs to find the others fast, he's really losing it.

I can't really say I disagree with him on most accounts, though. Yeah, Therkla was a person and not a chunck of XP, but so where all the people you killed, Elan, and maybe they were in love with someone, too, and maybe they were brave, intelligent and sensitive. V's very pragmatic, but he's not wrong.

And I would have been so pissed at Elan if he had talked about Therkla that way when Haley is still missing, had I been V. I mean, we followed the whole story, V didn't. The only thing he knows is Elan being "Boo-hoo, the girl who was in love with me is dead".

At least Elan is back to his old oblivious self in the end. V's scary, though. I really hope nothing bad happens to him.

You know, it's weird, V used to be the character in the Order I cared the less for. But now, he seemed to be the one I can relate to the most.

[LordSintax]

wow, V is slipping fast...... also, "do as you wish"... 4 words? anyone?

[Dziadek]

Damn... i would cast sleep on him a long time ago...if it weren't for the elf thing

[Dziadek]

wonder if he's really capable of hurting his allies

[Lunaya]

Ooh..that was horrible.

Though it is interesting how Elan didn't understand that V was threatening him, but he did understand the "below the belt" remark about Therkla.



Actually, I want to be amused by that but I'm not. V's freaking me out right now.

[Kaytara]

A further note: Vaarsuvius being pissed at Elan for cheating on Haley is entirely in-character: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0365.html
In that example, it was just some cross looks, since Elan was still ignorant. Now, however, in V's eyes Elan has a clear responsibility that he's been shirking.

[B.I.T.T.]

Okaaaay. V's gettin' a little nuts here.

Good comic.

[Traker]

We have never none Elan to the brightest bulb but I prtty shere he can till whan he is being thretend

[tanonx]

Hm... I think it was more that it just didn't cross Elan's mind that V would threaten him. I mean, come on, you've been adventuring together, and he's put up with far worse without complaint...

Some interesting paralells could no doubt be drawn between this arc and the strips in which Elan wanted to multiclass as a wizard...

[Traker]

Hm... I think it was more that it just didn't cross Elan's mind that V would threaten him. I mean, come on, you've been adventuring together, and he's put up with far worse without complaint...

Some interesting paralells could no doubt be drawn between this arc and the strips in which Elan wanted to multiclass as a wizard...

True. You are right

[Scarlet Knight]

Sorry v-haters, but intimidation != evil.

Nah; I think he's just trying the old Gandalf/Bilbo act....

[Dr. Cthulwho]

Now I'm curious as to how Hinjo will have to react to this.

Elan may or may not still tell him, but if he does, how is Hinjo to do?

In one sense a major thorn in his and his peoples side is gone and V might be a bit dangerous to confront. On the other hand there is the whole Paladin thing, as well as being bound to uphold the laws of Azure City - and it probably would, with Azure City laws, seem Kubota was murdered.

So if it does come out - does he confront V? Try and exile him? Does he have any wriggle room to ignore or cover up what happened?

Nah; I think he's just trying the old Gandalf/Bilbo act....

The bit where Gandalf threatens to disintegrate Bilbo if he continues to annoy him like he just disintegrated Gollum a moment before for the same reason?

[Calemyr]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Disintegration. Gust of Wind" is the right four words to the right person at the right time for all the wrong reasons. It fits every qualification to the letter. I believe that V's ultimate arcane power is a direct result of the execution of Kubota. Maybe not imediately, but down the line. Just the same way Roy was the trigger for Miko's downfall by telling her off after the inn fire incident. That one incident colored the paladin's mind and led her to treat every event that followed as evidence of their evil. In the same way, those four words are the catalyst that sends the elf down a path V would not otherwise go.

As for this argument, I'd side with Elan. He said flat out multiple times that Kubota's death wasn't going to keep him up at nights, but that lying to Hinjo just might. V's accusation that he cheated on Haley when someone just died in his arms because he refused to do just that was finally enough to elicit something of a "you know what? screw you." response from Elan. Even that response came after a moment's pause and came out calm and controlled. No crying tantrum this time.

Was he feigning stupidity to avoid a fight or failing to understand due to the belief that V would never harm him? It could easily be either, and I'm sure we'll find out soon. That said, however, it felt a lot like the time Belkar refused to believe Roy lied because Roy was an admitted liar.

[Kaytara]

As for this argument, I'd side with Elan. He said flat out multiple times that Kubota's death wasn't going to keep him up at nights, but that lying to Hinjo just might. V's accusation that he cheated on Haley when someone just died in his arms because he refused to do just that was finally enough to elicit something of a "you know what? screw you." response from Elan. Even that response came after a moment's pause and came out calm and controlled. No crying tantrum this time.

Yes, Elan's reaction is perfectly understandable. He's just gone through something fairly traumatic and is very sensitive, and V's not only being more callous than usual but is also rather upset and letting some very sharp words drop.

However, V's reaction is also completely understandable. As I posted earlier, being called without depth, horrible and mean after everything he's been doing for the Order IN SPITE of their own efforts, most recently saving all of their necks... Under these circumstances, it would make anyone snap.

Therefore I think it's apparent that neither of them is wrong or right, as their actions are justified from an 'in their shoes' perspective.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Well V is on his way to ultimate arcane power...he/she has demonstrated the power glows ability.

[Werekat]

Ooh, tough call.

I think Elan just made two beautiful rolls: sense motive + bluff. And sarcasm, yes, I think. I re-read the strip several times, and when I read sarcasm into his words, it made the most sense.

And V? Reminded me of the fact that in any wizard's arsenal of greatest weapons is a feat called Greater Show-Off. Better known sometimes as "Unsightly fools who have enraged me! Shudder in my presence! Cover before my power! Flee before my... Illusion!" (Which is the least obscure reference I can come up with at the moment). This looks like Greater Show-off... Failed abysmally. And any wizard worth their salt knows when to back off after that.

I have the impression that the conversation between Elan's and Vaarsuivius' players went something like this:
"Oh, now you've done it. My hands and eyes start glowing with arcane power..."
"You are so bluffing."
"Am not."
"Are too. Don't even bother rolling."
"Damn."

[Elfey]

I think it's pretty obvious V has a major mental problem going on with the lack of sleep sending V off the deep end.

Although it is nice to see V ships the One True Pairing....

[synnerman]

Oh dear, I smell an Anakin coming on.

No V, don't smite the youngling. Run away from the distractions (and temptation to fall to Neutral Evil) run away!!!!!!

[nowiwantmydmg]

Neato. Would like to switch back for a bit though.

[Yoyoyo]

Another great strip. V is scaring me. Elan may not believe s/he would hurt him or is too stupid to believe it, but s/he had me believing it.

And I love that even the illusory Belkar is impossible to control. Does that mean Elan is better or worse with his illusions?

[JonahFalcon]

Oh dear, I smell an Anakin coming on.

No V, don't smite the youngling. Run away from the distractions (and temptation to fall to Neutral Evil) run away!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but anyone who says "youngling" or "man-animal" must be instantly destroyed.

[JonahFalcon]

3- Pragmatic Solution: Trying to stop Elan from telling Hinjo:
4- Neutral Solution: threaten Elan no to do it
5- Evil Solution: Desintegrating Elan so he won't do it.
.

What's to stop V from killing Hinjo?

[JonahFalcon]

Well -- V is doing all this for Haley.

No. V is doing this to expedite things. Stop listening to V's rationalization.

[Yoyoyo]

What's to stop V from killing Hinjo?

His trusted bodyguard, Elan? In other words, nothing.

[JonahFalcon]

V seems to be, while not snapping, definitely fracturing a little under the pressure

A little? What would be a lot? Smiting everyone in sight?

[Yulian]

All else aside, does anyone else ever notice that in supplementary fiction, D&D mages have this "magical intimidation" ability that the rules make no allowance for?

I'd love to find out if there is an existing mage ability that lets you haul out the lightshow for purposes of intimidation.

- Yulian

[Frenzied_Berz]

I have the impression that the conversation between Elan's and Vaarsuivius' players went something like this:
"Oh, now you've done it. My hands and eyes start glowing with arcane power..."
"You are so bluffing."
"Am not."
"Are too. Don't even bother rolling."
"Damn."

I'm more of the impression that it wen't more something like this.

Elan's Player:Just you wait. You're character is gonna get it when I tell the paladin.

V's Player:Bah.. You're just angry cause I ended your solo-plot and want to get back to the main story were everything dosen't revolve around your character's love-life.. Of which we've already have had a story including yet ANOTHER of your personal villains AND your girlfriend's character.

Elan's Player.:Well I'm still telling.

V's Player:Oh yeah.. Maybe I'll kill you with another disintigrate?

Elan's Player.:Yeah just try it. I have more Hps then you and a better Fortitude save then Kubota. Besides you're out of high level spells. Go ahead and roll your intimidate check if you want. Mr. I put all my ranks into spellcraft and knowledge Arcane. Maybe throw some dazzeling lights and darkvision in there just for effect. Maybe you'll get a nice circumstance bonus.

*V's player Rolls Dice* HAH!! 15 +1 for my charisma modifier equals 16.

*Elan's player rolls the opposed roll and looks sad.*

V's player:HOHO "1"!! You just got owned by my Arcane eloquence!

Elan's Player:Is Hinjo just around the corner on the boat?
GM:Yes,why?
Elan's Player:SWEET! +4 circumstance bonus vs Fear!
*Elan's "idiot defense" ensues.*

[JonahFalcon]

His trusted bodyguard, Elan? In other words, nothing.

My point is that V cares nothing for anyone but party members (so far) and he's going to try to end the entire civil war singlehandedly, and permanently.

You know, the right thing for the wrong reason.

[Taren]

Aaaand the party splinters even more.

I wanna state openly that I can't see Durkon and Elan wanting to work with V for much longer if he/she's gonna keep acting like that.