Highest Possible AC at level 20 [3.5]

[Kansaschaser]

What is the highest possible AC that you can achieve by level 20? Show your work.

Here are the restrictions I'm working with.

1. 32 point buy system.

2. Normal Wealth by Level.

3. Must be a non-caster class, except for Bard, Paladin, and/or Ranger.

4. Try to stick with a race with no level adjustment. If there is a level adjustment, then only +1.

5. Has access to normal magic items from the DMG, Magic Item Compendium, Race Books, and Complete Books.

6. Try not to use feats, classes, or prestige classes from Dragon Magazines or Dungeon Magazines. I have a hard time getting the DM to agree to their use. A few exceptions might be possible.

What is the AC? What is the Flat-footed AC? What is the Touch AC? Miss Chance? Immunities?

[Callista]

Play Pun-Pun and wish for infinite dexterity.

There, now that that's out of the way, let's get some realistic builds...

[Kansaschaser]

Play Pun-Pun and wish for infinite dexterity.

There, now that that's out of the way, let's get some realistic builds...

I'd like to play Pun-Pun, however this is not Forgotten Realms. Plus, the DM is the one that showed me the Pun-Pun build years ago. So I doubt he'd let that fly in his game.

[Eldariel]

Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper/Fist of the Forests/Deepwarden should prolly break 100 rather easily. Bard/Sublime Chord would obviously break 100 without trying; Shapechange is good. I dunno how much good AC is for you, tho; doesn't allow you to kill anyone, protect anyone or even protect you against magic. At the very least you'd need some saves to go with it. But yeah, I'd prolly go with a Con-stack on a Wildshape chassis for ease of use.

[Kansaschaser]

Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper/Fist of the Forests/Deepwarden should prolly break 100 rather easily. Bard/Sublime Chord would obviously break 100 without trying; Shapechange is good. I dunno how much good AC is for you, tho; doesn't allow you to kill anyone, protect anyone or even protect you against magic. At the very least you'd need some saves to go with it. But yeah, I'd prolly go with a Con-stack on a Wildshape chassis for ease of use.

Wow, that was a completely 180 from what I was thinking. I was trying to build Fighter/Crusader/Paladin and wear really heavy armor.

As for the Bard/Sublime Chord, I can't do that combo since that is basically a full casting class. We can't have anything that gets more casting than a basic bard, ranger, or paladin.

[grimbold]

my friend once told me you could get a max of 108 ac
i have no clue how to do it though

[Douglas]

Wow, that was a completely 180 from what I was thinking. I was trying to build Fighter/Crusader/Paladin and wear really heavy armor.

Heavy armor gets you a quick boost at low levels, but if you really want super high AC at high levels it just gets in the way. The highest ACs are generally achieved by combining several special abilities that boost AC, most of which require that you use little or no armor, and may also involve extremely high dexterity bonuses - which heavy armor negates.

[Kansaschaser]

Heavy armor gets you a quick boost at low levels, but if you really want super high AC at high levels it just gets in the way. The highest ACs are generally achieved by combining several special abilities that boost AC, most of which require that you use little or no armor, and may also involve extremely high dexterity bonuses - which heavy armor negates.

Anyone have a build as an example?

Oh, I should also mention that Leadership is allowed. I just checked, but I didn't think it was worth mentioning.

[true_shinken]

Record is 362 by Otto the Bugbear, IIRC.

[The Rabbler]

if I remember correctly, the record was somewhere around 130 ish AC. I believe monk, deepwarden, fist of the forest, a monk's belt, and a lot of potions were involved.

In less insanely-specific build terms, I think an... Apostle of Peace (?) from BoED combined with the saint template can get you pretty high up there.

Swordsage'd; my memory was completely off.

[Kansaschaser]

Record is 362 by Otto the Bugbear, IIRC.

Is Otto the Bugbear's build on here somewhere?

[Eldariel]

Record is 362 by Otto the Bugbear, IIRC.

That's mostly a spell stack tho; something not all that applicable here for obvious reasons. Also, I thought it was 302 unless they one-upped it?

[Kansaschaser]

That's mostly a spell stack tho; something not all that applicable here for obvious reasons. Also, I thought it was 302 unless they one-upped it?

Well, then that won't work either. I guess it's back to the drawing board for me.

[Eldariel]

Well, then that won't work either. I guess it's back to the drawing board for me.

Honestly, the Wildshape Con stack I suggested? Really simple, really easy. Wildshape into a form with high Con (there's plenty), use abilities that add to Con (Rage, Warshaper bonus, etc.), get Con to AC multiple times, get Wilding Clasped magic items for the relevant types of AC bonus you're missing, go to town.

Fist of the Forests [Complete Champion] 1/Deepwarden 2 [Races of Stone] gets you Con to AC twice. You also get Con to Fort-saves normally, and Con to Will-saves with Steadfast Determination. And Wildshape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10 [Complete Adventurer] gets you 15th level Wildshaping out of a great list of forms. 16 HD may be worth going for; consult the Master of Many Forms Bible for ease of reference.

[Czin]

Heavy armor gets you a quick boost at low levels, but if you really want super high AC at high levels it just gets in the way. The highest ACs are generally achieved by combining several special abilities that boost AC, most of which require that you use little or no armor, and may also involve extremely high dexterity bonuses - which heavy armor negates.

But heavy armor makes you look and feel bad@$$, style has to count for something. Also, freedom of movement enchhanted armor makes dexterity bonus limits a moot point though many special abilities do indeed prohibit the use of armor.

[dextercorvia]

But heavy armor makes you look and feel bad@$$, style has to count for something. Also, freedom of movement enchhanted armor makes dexterity bonus limits a moot point though many special abilities do indeed prohibit the use of armor.

Then use a Hat of Disguise.

[true_shinken]

That's mostly a spell stack tho; something not all that applicable here for obvious reasons. Also, I thought it was 302 unless they one-upped it?

Late in 3.5, Otto came back and trumped his own record. Dunno if it is actually 362. Can't find the thread, though.

[ericgrau]

IIRC you can google old AC challenges and it's around 60 pretty easily. +10-15 if you allow stacking defending weapons. 75/90 with LA races pretty easy, and then with special tricks as posted you can go a lot higher. None of these are pratical though as they assume pure AC focus.

[Kansaschaser]

Honestly, the Wildshape Con stack I suggested? Really simple, really easy. Wildshape into a form with high Con (there's plenty), use abilities that add to Con (Rage, Warshaper bonus, etc.), get Con to AC multiple times, get Wilding Clasped magic items for the relevant types of AC bonus you're missing, go to town.

Fist of the Forests [Complete Champion] 1/Deepwarden 2 [Races of Stone] gets you Con to AC twice. You also get Con to Fort-saves normally, and Con to Will-saves with Steadfast Determination. And Wildshape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10 [Complete Adventurer] gets you 15th level Wildshaping out of a great list of forms. 16 HD may be worth going for; consult the Master of Many Forms Bible for ease of reference.

Ok, I'm looking for the Wildshaper Ranger. Where can I find that class feature?

[Pechvarry]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/cl...ses.htm#ranger

[Czin]

Then use a Hat of Disguise.

Doesn't fool tactile senses, or blindsighted creatures, or true sight users. Ridiculously Ostentatious armor needs to be physical so you can awe everyone regardless of their senses (unless they have X-ray vision, but a little bit of gold plating can block that ).

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dwarf, Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Deepwarden 2/ Wizard 5/ anything 1

Improved Familiar: Shocker Lizard, with its at-will electric attack.
Wild Shape: Shambling Mound, MoMF gives you its extraordinary special qualities including its electricity immunity ability which increases your Con score every time you're hit by an electrical attack.
Have your shocker lizard zap you repeatedly, round after round, hour after hour.... Your Con score is nigh-infinite, and you get your Con bonus to AC, so your AC is now nigh-infinite. I'm pretty sure there more efficient ways of accomplishing this, but this is was the easiest to think of.

[Eldariel]

Dwarf, Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 7/ Deepwarden 2/ Wizard 5/ anything 1

Improved Familiar: Shocker Lizard, with its at-will electric attack.
Wild Shape: Shambling Mound, MoMF gives you its extraordinary special qualities including its electricity immunity ability which increases your Con score every time you're hit by an electrical attack.
Have your shocker lizard zap you repeatedly, round after round, hour after hour.... Your Con score is nigh-infinite, and you get your Con bonus to AC, so your AC is now nigh-infinite. I'm pretty sure there more efficient ways of accomplishing this, but this is was the easiest to think of.

Well, you could just persist Energy Substituted Creeping Cold with DMM and just take like Druid into Enhanced Wildshape but that kinda flies in the face of the "no full caster"-restriction. Still, Shambling Mount Con-bonus stack is prolly the easiest loop to reach, so there's something if wanting to go much above 100 (though that shouldn't be necessary).

[Cog]

Neither Wizard nor Druid are available, as per the OP.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It uses Wild Shape Ranger, and Wizard can be substituted for any arcane spellcasting class if you want to spend a feat on Obtain Familiar. That means Duskblade, Suel Arcanamach, even Hexblade can be used to replace those Wizard levels.

[Kansaschaser]

I think I might be able to take a feat that allows me to pick up a familiar. So I might be able to do the Shambling Mound trick with a shocker lizard.

[Eldariel]

It uses Wild Shape Ranger, and Wizard can be substituted for any arcane spellcasting class if you want to spend a feat on Obtain Familiar. That means Duskblade, Suel Arcanamach, even Hexblade can be used to replace those Wizard levels.

Or, y'know, Sword of the Arcane Order for Ranger. It could theoretically work, at any rate; it's a bit nebulous.


EDIT: I was able to dig up Otto's (originally Urnsk's) 302 build from Web Archive here (Web Archive is being a bit unstable though, so I'm copypasting it):

Spoiler

Show

First, Otto-

Polymorph means you would loose the racial Cha to AC; Polymorph is like alter self, which means you lose all racial abilities, since Polymorph doesn't specify that you retain special qualities.

Second, my build. Thanks where due for the idea for psionic powers, broadblade short sword, and Allied Defense; I doubt I'd have come up with those by myself.


Dunkirk the Untouchable
Male Half Fey Star Elf Saint Monk 1/Fighter 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/Cleric 1/Tattooed Monk 5/ Variant Wizard 1/Arcane Duelist 2
Lawful Good

Normal Form (Pre-aging) *note: the character uses a Tome of Clear Thought +3 before taking the Variant Wizard at ECL 17 to qualify for Combat Expertise
Str: 8
Dex: 13
Con: 6
Int: 10
Wis: 21
Cha: 28

Max’ed AC form (Pit Fiend [Draconic Polymorph], Fine [Minute Form], Charm Domain, Bellflower to Cha, Bellflower to Wis, Bellflower to Dex, Mountain Tattoo,
Str: 35
Dex: 64 (+27)
Con: 29
Int: 16
Wis: 64 (27)
Cha: 70 (+30)


Relevant Equipment (Cost: 721353 gp)
+5 Defending Broadblade Short sword (50,375gp)
+4 Defending Broadblade Short sword (50,375gp)
Tome of Leadership and Influence +5 (137,500 gp)
Tome of Understanding +5 (137,500 gp)
Tome of Clear Thought +3 (82,500 gp)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000 gp)
Wand of Quickened Divine Power, CL 18 (67500 gp)
Ring of the Scaled Miniature* (79800 gp)
Psychic Circlet of Protection* (25,650 gp)
Periapt of Cooperation * (54600 gp)

* These items are detailed at the end of the build

Relevant Skills:

Tumble (5)
Perform: Dance (5)
Knowledge: Religion (5)
Use Psionic Device (1+)
Use Magic Item (1+)

Feats
-Nymphs Kiss (Exalted) (Level 1)
-Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk 1)
-Improved Grapple (Monk 1)
-Endurance (Level 3)
-Dodge (Fighter 1)
-Mobility (Fighter 2)
-Servant to The Heavens (Level 6)
-Intuitive Attack (Exalted) (Psychic Warrior 1)
-Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Broadblade Short Sword (Psychic Warrior 2)
-Leadership (Level 9)
-Divine Shield (12)
-Combat Expertise (Variant Wizard 1)
-Improved Combat Expertise (Level 15)

Class Abilities
-Wisdom to AC
-Balance Domain (Wisdom to AC)
-Charm Domain (+4 unnamed bonus to Charisma)
-Bellflower Tattoo (Cha to an ability; 3/day, 5 round duration)
-Mountain Tattoo (+4 unnamed to Con and Wisdom)
-Dragonfly Tattoo (+3 Dodge to AC)
-Cha to AC

Spells and Powers cast through Items
Divine Power (CL 18)
Draconic Polymorph (CL 19)
Minute Form (CL 19)
Force Shield (ML 19)
Inertial Armor (ML 19)
Thicken Skin (ML 19)

Relevant Ability Scores:

Dexterity: 63(+26)
27 (Pit Fiend form)
08 (Minute Form)
28 (Bellflower; Enhancement)

Wisdom: 60(+25)
08 (Base)
08 (Point Buy)
02 (Half-Fey)
02 (Saint)
04 (Mountain Tattoo)
05 (Tome of Understanding)
03 (Age)
28 (Bellflower; Enhancement)

Charisma: 67(+28)
08 (Base)
02 (Racial)
10 (Point Buy)
04 (Half-Fey)
04 (Saint)
03 (Age)
04 (Level Adjustment)
05 (Inherent)
06 (Cloak of Charisma)
04 (Charm Domain)
02 (Warchief)
15 (Net gain from Bellflower; Enhancement)

Order of Perparation: Action (duration)
Round 1: Manifest Inertial Armor (19 hours)
Round 2: Manifest Thicken Skin (190 minutes)
Round 3: Manifest Force Screen, Activate Bellflower Tattoo: Apply to Cha (19 minutes; 5 rounds)
Round 4: Activate Charm Domain, Activate Mountain Tattoo (1 minute; 5 rounds)
Round 5: Use Wand of Quickened Divine Power, Use Periapt of Cooperation, Activate Bellflower Tattoo: Apply to Wis (19 rounds; 19 rounds; 5 rounds)
Round 6: Use Ring of the Scaled Miniature, Activate Bellflower Tattoo; Apply to Dex (19 minutes; 1 minute; 5 rounds)
Round 8: Use Balance Domain; Fight Defensively; activate Dragonfly Tattoo* (1 round; N/A; 5 rounds)

* Dragonfly Tattoo is activated during the action granted by Marshal Cohort


Adding it all up:
# (Source) [Type]

+10 (Base)[Unnamed]
+26 (Dexterity)[Unnamed]
+25 (Wisdom; Monk ability) [Unnamed]
+25 (Wisdom; Saint ability) [Insight]
+25 (Wisdom; Balance Domain) [Unnamed]
+28 (Charisma; Arcane Duelist) [Unnamed]
+23 (Pit Fiend Draconic Polymorph) [Natural]
+01 (Dodge) [Dodge]
+08 (Minute Form) [Size]
+08 (Augmented Force Shield) [Shield]
+28 (Divine Shield) [Unnamed]
+03 (Dragonfly Tattoo) [Dodge]
+01 (Monk/Tattooed Monk level 6) [Unnamed]
+03 (Fighting Defensively with Tumble) [Dodge]
+05 (Defending Broadblade Short Sword) [Unnamed]
+04 (Defending Broadblade Short Sword) [Unnamed]
+16 (Improved Combat Expertise) [Dodge]
+07 (Augmented Thicken Skin)
+13 (Augmented Inertial Armor)
+10 (Holy Star)
+29 (Various cohort bonii, listed below)
+04 (Broadblade Shortswords)

Total: 302



Custom Items

Ring of the Scaled Miniature

When not worn, this ring looks large enough to be worn only by a fine creature. When a Sorcerer tries to wear the ring, though, it resizes itself to fit perfectly. Once per day, a Sorcerer can activate the ring to cast a Quickened Draconic Polymorph followed immediately by Minute Form as a 19th level caster.

Prerequisites: CL 19, Draconic Polymorph, Minute Form, Forge Ring, Quicken Spell. Cost: 79800 gp ((19*9*400*.7+19*8*400*.75)*.7(Sorcerer’ s only)))


Psychic Circlet of Protection 25,650

This fine silver chain is worn around a wearer’s head, and is studded with several crystals. When a Psychic Warrior wears this Circlet, he is able to greatly augment his defensive capabilities. Once per day each, he is able to manifest Force Screen, Inertial Armor, and Thicken Skin, each augmented as if his manifester level were 19.

Prerequisites: ML 19, Force Screen, Inertial Armor, Thicken Skin, Craft Universal Item
Cost: 25,650 gp (((19*1*400+19*1*400*.75+19*19*1*400*.5) *1.5)*.7 (Psychic Warriors only))
Periapt of Cooperation

Sometimes, Clerics of differing deities must work separately from one another. The Periapt of Cooperation is a symbol of friendship given by Clerics of Mystra to some of the deities allies. In addition to this mundane function, the Periapt of Cooperation has the power to cast Holy Star once each day.

Prerequisite: CL 13, Holy Star, Cleric of Mystra, Craft Wondrous Items
Cost: 54600 (13*7*400*1.5)


When it comes to making an item, there is nothing in the rules that says you can’t set the minimum CL/ML for crafting an item to a certain level. And, since there are many items which DO Have a CL/ML higher than the minimum level for crafting an item, it seems reasonable that in crafting an item, one can set the level to whatever one wants; it just needs to be noted. All items will then function at the minimum caster level required to make the item.



Cohort:

Aemoni, The Defender

Male Star Elf Marshal 4/Bard 2/Warchief 2/Dread Pirate 9

Maxed out Charisma 32 (8 base + 2 Racial + 10 Point Buy + 3 Level Adjustment + 6 Cloak + 1 Tome + 2 War Chief)

Relevant Feats: Combat Expertise, Quick Draw, Weapon Finesse, Improved Combat Expertise, Allied Defense

Relevent Skills: Use Magic Device (Maxed)

Relevant Equipment: Wand of Divine Power, +6 Cloak of Charisma, Tome of Leadership and Influence +1

When his cohort is around, he gains: +1 Circumstance (Marshal), +11 (Fight to the Death), +17 (Allied Defense + Improved Combat Expertise)= 29

[Ingus]

Take artificer. The class ends having 6th level spells, like bard.
You can also only go till having 4th level infusion, then changing.

Basicly, you're going after "Item Alteration" to alter for a while the kind of bonus a magic item gives. Then, after having bid the best +AC items on the market, start buy the cheapest one armor (enhancement) and, for the result, alter it in... let's say... epic, exalted, vile or... circumstance.
Circumstance bonus does stack if provided by different circumstances, so you just have to be creative. Your limit is set by your budget

[randomhero00]

I don't remember the build but I got it up to the 70s or 80s by lvl 20 in one campaign where i played tank (plus miss chance). My DM wasn't happy with me :P

edit: except that it wasn't with heavy armor. It was with getting a ton of AC bonuses from different armorless classes and maxing dex.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's also Gloura Cobra-Strike Monk 2/ Fighter 2/ Arcane Duelist 3/ Blackguard 3/ Mystic Wanderer 1, gets Cha to saves twice and Cha to AC four times with Ascetic Mage. You've also got options like Divine Shield, though I'd prefer Divine Might with 2h Power Attack + Dexterous Attack, Shock Trooper, and either Leap Attack or making a dive attack for double damage. Its level adjustment is too high for the OP's criteria, but it should have an AC over 100, insane save bonuses, and be capable of winning fights on his own.