General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

[Floret]

It sounds like it might be an interesting game. And "Cybersurgeon that patches and upgrades a local gang to do stuff for them" sounds like a nice enough concept. I think in General many of the "new" roles might be ones that traditionally are found on the "Connections" side of things. Gangboss might be another likely addition.
(The Hacker might fly out the window in 5th edition at least, though, considering they need to be at least somewhat close to what is going down. Might not matter to you, though.
And, I guess I would prefer the whole group "respeccing", playing an infobroker rather than a Hacker, and a Johnson, instead of a classical Face, for example, if only for thematic coherence and everyone playing the same game, and not one group doing "actually involved/in the moment-action stuff" and the other part just the groundwork. You get a lot of players sitting around waiting for the others to be finished otherwise.)

The Problem I see is that there are, aside from Spirits and Sprites (And I mean... sort of Pets?) not really rules for commanding mooks. So if I understand you correctly, I can see the following happen:
So either the players set up stuff, and then
1) the GM rolls through the whole run (Much work and little fun for a GM to play with themselves for hours, and unless done between sessions frustrating for the players)
2) the GM just rolls something based on "how well did they plan and prepare"/Decides whether or not that was enough (Potentially frustrating to have things depend on a single roll or GM fiat)
3) Make up some form of rules ("mass battle" rules are a thing that can be done) for more player control over the mooks.

Alternately, you take the rules you have, and make a campaign solely on Buiseness crime. Maybe running sub-bosses of the Mafia, that never soil their hands, and the game just isn't about getting into people's houses anymore. Or maybe about managers of a big corporation. I would probably still recommend a different ruleset then, but it's probably doable in the Shadowrun rules.
With my usual opinion of "Just go and use a game that does what you want, instead of shoehorning what you want into a game that only maybe sort-of fits it" I'd try looking at games that have better rules for general "underlings" and refluffing that to Shadowrun. Or, well, houserules. I might see a more involved "Connection" system do the trick.

[druid91]

Seems to me there's just as much to do on the management side of things as on the merc-squad side.

As for grunts, you could handle that with contacts. "I know a street Sam. Let me give him a ring because we need some muscle for this job." As opposed to "I know a guy what fences priceless art."

YOU'RE the guy who fences priceless art. And your contacts are the guys who steal it!

[Floret]

Oh, I didn't think that there would be too little to do for a group in this setting. The general idea sounds great, is definitely put on my "list of things/one-shots to run if I get the chance". I am just not quite sure what to alter rules-wise if I do it, to make everything run smoothly.

And, okay, sure... One could go ahead and make the rules for "Does the Team actually manage to steal the art" the same as for "Is that contact able to get the Info/Stuff that we need"; which I know EXIST in 5th (never GMed 4th and am a bit light on the rules there. Can't say anything at all about 1st to 3rd) at least (And that I always replace with Gm fiat because **** those rules), but for such a situation might actually think about using. Might work. One would have to test it.

Probably needs a generation system where you can pump tons of points into Connections. Those exist, sure, and in 4th edition are "all of them", but I know that 5th edition priority system is terrible Connection-wise.

[Lord Torath]

2E question:

My group's Street Samurai (merc, really) has just purchased a Gunnery Facility, and has B/R Gunnery 6 or so. He wants to build a Vigilant Rotary Autocannon to mount on a pop-up turret in his Bulldog. How long, how expensive, and how difficult to make? ie: B/R Gunnery (target number) test, base cost is Y x weapon cost (125kY), and base construction time.

[SickBritKid]

Anyone have an idea for how I could homebrew a Fan The Hammer-type firing mode like McCree's alt-fire from Overwatch?

[Dimers]

So, something I've always wondered from 4e. With how in depth Shadowrun get's into the whole logistical side of things. I wonder what it would be like to have a party that entirely forsakes direct action. Leaving that to grunts and proxies. And devotes their builds to logistics required to supply teams of grunts and proxies.

Face and Hacker would probably survive the transition untouched. But what of the other roles? I feel like Medic, or at least cybersurgeon would come up as a new role.

Another role which I don't recall being possible before 4e is "tacnet master" -- providing the equipment and software to make tactical networking possible. Basically, you can give every member of your team +4 to everything. That'd be one handy way for a hacker to contribute to an indirect style of game. And it inherently includes tons of sensory transmissions, so the PC would be able to keep close watch on the grunts in case they do something dumb.

Well Mages would still survive because Mages can do anything they want in SR (save for Hacker stuff, although actually in 4e it's not that hard to make a Matrix-savvy mage, although you usually want all the karma possible to go into magic stuff). Make it a summoning specialist and you have your little "grunt factory" right there.

A mage could also go for buffing. A Detection spell specialist could give a grunt/proxy plenty of extra awareness. Or use the spell creation guidelines in Street Magic to design all kinds of stuff to benefit a team with a single casting. Sure, the Drain would be nasty, but you can sit back and rest while the team works.

[Telwar]

Anyone have an idea for how I could homebrew a Fan The Hammer-type firing mode like McCree's alt-fire from Overwatch?

In SR4, that's actually not that difficult. Mod the revolver with a Large Modification Firing Selection Change, to give it a FA setting. That's 4 points, so you have 2 more to hold your smartlink and something else.

The homebrew part comes in with what's likely custom headware running the tactical software that allows multiple headshots during this attack, reducing the various extra target penalties. McCree is clearly cybered, so that's not really an issue (though I suppose adept centering could help with that, too), but cost is probably high. Maybe 100k or so, or make it a unique 10-point quality.

[Cheech]

In 5e, Are pistols viable as a sole weapon choice in a long-running campaign, or will there be a need to upgrade to something with more firepower, like a machine gun or a sniper rifle, for heavier missions down the line?

[Delta]

That massively depends so many factors it's tough to give a generic answer. In general, a heavy pistols packs quite a punch and should be enough in most situations. But what role do you fill in your typical runner group? If you're the primary ranged weapons expert, you should be able to handle something heavier should the need arise. What kind of runs are you doing? If you're doing mostly white collar crime and high stealth breaking & entering stuff, yeah pistols should be enough. If you're doing missions for a drug cartel in latin america, that's a completely different animal.

[LibraryOgre]

2E question:

My group's Street Samurai (merc, really) has just purchased a Gunnery Facility, and has B/R Gunnery 6 or so. He wants to build a Vigilant Rotary Autocannon to mount on a pop-up turret in his Bulldog. How long, how expensive, and how difficult to make? ie: B/R Gunnery (target number) test, base cost is Y x weapon cost (125kY), and base construction time.

I have no idea; I'd lean towards looking at RBB for rules like that. You might also look into 4e's Arsenal for some rules to work with.

On the topic "Run a game where you're the fixer", I'd say it would be more difficult to do in Shadowrun, proper... you'd more or less want a game designed around worker management... and the first thing that pops to mind is Lords of Waterdeep.

[Lord Torath]

I have no idea; I'd lean towards looking at RBB for rules like that. You might also look into 4e's Arsenal for some rules to work with.

Rigger Black Book has rules for modifying existing weapons to be vehicle-mounted, and for adding turrets and such to vehicles, but nothing about actually building weapons. I'll see if 3E Cannon Companion has anything I can scavenge.

[Delta]

I know that the german version of the 3e gun book definitely had weapon design rules, I just don't remember whether they're for out- or ingame design.

[Telwar]

Rigger Black Book has rules for modifying existing weapons to be vehicle-mounted, and for adding turrets and such to vehicles, but nothing about actually building weapons. I'll see if 3E Cannon Companion has anything I can scavenge.

Oh, yeah, there's a *fine* weapon construction system. There's so much I love about having my guns have their own character sheet.

Looking at it, it doesn't give an option to build a rotary cannon, though. You can probably to build something close and get TNs from that, though.

[Delta]

Problem with the weapon construction system as far as I remember was that there was hardly any balancing. Quite easy to build burst-fire capable 10M-Heavy Pistols with internal recoil compensation, 9M-assault rifles the size of large pistols and other fun stuff.

[Lord Torath]

I don't think I'll show the weapon design rules to my group, just use them myself to determine costs and target numbers. He doesn't want to design a new gun, just wants to build an existing one. I'll have their fixer locate the plans for them, probably at an Ares facility, and disconnected from the matrix. I'll maybe have an order or two in the system for Vigilants, which they can redirect if they are so inclined (and can fool the delivery truck guys). But I think I'll give them a few months - in game - before they can get this info. If they go with the design - build option, I'll go with a target number of 10, a cost of 100 grand (weapon cost is 125k), and a build time of 30 days.

Thanks for the ideas!

[Delta]

I'll have their fixer locate the plans for them, probably at an Ares facility, and disconnected from the matrix

Honestly, I'd ask you if you were kidding if you told me that as a GM. Plans for some super secret experimental laser cannon or whatever? Okay, I could buy that being stored on a secure, isolated system. But the plans for a standard issue vehicle mounted autocannon? That's pretty ridiculous to be honest, you could probably get the blueprints for a weapon like that today easily without ever getting up from your desk.

If they have the necessary facility, know-how and materials for the task, building stuff like that shouldn't be hard.

[Lord Torath]

Honestly, I'd ask you if you were kidding if you told me that as a GM. Plans for some super secret experimental laser cannon or whatever? Okay, I could buy that being stored on a secure, isolated system. But the plans for a standard issue vehicle mounted autocannon? That's pretty ridiculous to be honest, you could probably get the blueprints for a weapon like that today easily without ever getting up from your desk.

If they have the necessary facility, know-how and materials for the task, building stuff like that shouldn't be hard.

Good point. It could just be easier to reach from inside the facility. Having the decker just run Ares is not really that exciting, you know. Getting the decker onsite and quietly past security is much more interesting. The runners are still pretty new, so the decker doesn't have amazing software yet, so high online security could be a decent reason to go onsite. If they think to get the specific instructions out of the CNC machines/slaves, I'll give them a -2 target bonus for the B/R test. Now I just need to design a matrix system (yes, it will have a connection to the main Ares constellation). And a manufacturing complex.

[Delta]

Getting the blueprint for a standard-issue autocannon simply shouldn't be an issue at all. I'd handle that with a simple data search test for the decker and be done with it.

I can put "machine gun blueprint" into google right now and get some pretty accurate looking ones. The problem is getting the tools and materials to build the stuff, not the design itself.

[Lord Torath]

A machine gun is one thing. A 30 mm rotary autocannon is something else entirely. Try finding blueprints for a GAU-8 Avenger or a GSh-6-30.

[druid91]

Also, you have to remember we live in a universe where a strong government can mostly protect a corporations patents.

In the Shadowrun Universe this is not true at all. Shadowrun is a universe where corporations hold onto their secrets like they're their own children. Also a universe where you can make a pretty good living pulling armed heists of nothing more than a blueprint.

[Telwar]

It's perfectly appropriate to have to do a run to get manufacturing specs for the Vigilant. But it shouldn't be impossible, because, well, that happens all the time, and it's probably fairly deprecated at this point in the timeline. Really, it's more like a Vulcan 20mm than a GAU-8, and even then we can probably find plans for those if we look places we're not supposed to.

And besides, they can easily find something they weren't supposed to on that should-be-easy-milk-run.

[comicshorse]

Or it should be possible to buy copies off somebody whose already done that ( or owe them a favour that can be cashed in for some suitable plot later)

[LibraryOgre]

https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2002-06-25

Truthfully, I don't see a lot of things like the Vigilant's blueprints remaining secret for long... think of the Chilton's Guides to cars, where they tear the thing down and build it back up to create a how-to-fix it guide... and Shadowrun, folks might well do that with the software, too.

[Delta]

In the Shadowrun Universe this is not true at all. Shadowrun is a universe where corporations hold onto their secrets like they're their own children. Also a universe where you can make a pretty good living pulling armed heists of nothing more than a blueprint.

Yes, of course. Blueprints for specialized tech that are hard to come by. But that's simply not the case here. This is a pretty standard vehicle mounted weapon, militaries all over the world will be using it or similar weapons, which should tell you all you need to know. It's not using any kind of high tech that hasn't been around for decades, dozens of companies all over the world will be producing copies or similar models, and blueprints should therefore be relatively easy to come by.

The blueprint for next years Ares Predator 6000 with some new Smartlink version will be much harder to come by and worth much more than this.

[LibraryOgre]

Yes, of course. Blueprints for specialized tech that are hard to come by. But that's simply not the case here. This is a pretty standard vehicle mounted weapon, militaries all over the world will be using it or similar weapons, which should tell you all you need to know. It's not using any kind of high tech that hasn't been around for decades, dozens of companies all over the world will be producing copies or similar models, and blueprints should therefore be relatively easy to come by.

The blueprint for next years Ares Predator 6000 with some new Smartlink version will be much harder to come by and worth much more than this.

Or the Ares laser weapons. Those, I can see being difficult to make. A rotary autocannon? The basic idea of those is 200 years old in Shadowrun. The version you download the specs for off of Shadowland might not be exactly the same as the Vigilant, but it'll be substantially so.

[Lord Torath]

Anyone ever run the adventure One Stage Before (1992)? If so, what map did you use for the wharf ambush(spoilered to protect those who have not played it)? The map they included in the adventure bears no resemblance - other than the presence of water - to what is described in the booklet. I'm looking to run it, and I need something that actually fits.

Edit: Nevermind. I threw something together in Inkscape.

[NINJA_HUNTER]

anyone on this forum running a shadow run game? i'm familiar with 1,2,3 & 4 i even have extra books for sale ^^

[OverdrivePrime]

So I'm running an IRL fantasy game with the SR5 system (ripped out the cyber, tech level is equivalent to 1300s Eurasia), because I like to give myself headaches.
My players are heading into the world's equivalent of Antarctica. The only things that live farther south than the coastal region are spirits - like ice elementals, paracritters that are naturally resistant or immune to cold, and extremely durable and frost resistant metatypes like Jotun frost giants.
Unfortunately, I can't find any information in any edition of Shadowrun about giants except that they're basically larger trolls without the horns and skin condition.

Soooo... how would you stat out a giant in SR5 (or SR4)? Not some pipsqueak troll, but a legitimate giant - 5-6m (17-20') of muscle and hubris.

I'm thinking something like:
Jotun Giant
Body: 9/14
Agility: 1/4
Reaction: 1/4
Strength: 9/14
Willpower: 1/5
Logic: 1/6
Intuition: 1/5
Charisma: 1/6
Edge: 1/6
Jotun Racial: Low-Light Vision, +2 Reach, +400% increased Lifestyle Costs

Average Jotun mook would be:
Body 12, Agility 3, Reaction 2, Strength 13, Willpower 2, Logic 3, Intuition 2, Charisma 3

Average Jotun Shaman would be;
Body 10, Agility 2, Reaction 2, Strength 10, Willpower 4, Logic 3, Intuition 3, Charisma 5

What do you think?

[Telwar]

So I'm running an IRL fantasy game with the SR5 system (ripped out the cyber, tech level is equivalent to 1300s Eurasia), because I like to give myself headaches.

Ouch. Do you, like, hate yourself or something?

Soooo... how would you stat out a giant in SR5 (or SR4)? Not some pipsqueak troll, but a legitimate giant - 5-6m (17-20') of muscle and hubris.

I'm thinking something like:
Jotun Giant
Body: 9/14
Agility: 1/4
Reaction: 1/4
Strength: 9/14
Willpower: 1/5
Logic: 1/6
Intuition: 1/5
Charisma: 1/6
Edge: 1/6
Jotun Racial: Low-Light Vision, +2 Reach, +400% increased Lifestyle Costs

Average Jotun mook would be:
Body 12, Agility 3, Reaction 2, Strength 13, Willpower 2, Logic 3, Intuition 2, Charisma 3

Average Jotun Shaman would be;
Body 10, Agility 2, Reaction 2, Strength 10, Willpower 4, Logic 3, Intuition 3, Charisma 5

What do you think?

Not bad. They're a little less tough than the behemoth from Howling Shadows, which is roughly their size, but the jotuns would come in groups and honestly those are going to be tough enough as it is.

[Telwar]

So, I just picked up my copy of Cutting Aces at the Strategist...and it's softcover.

Which, it's not that it's in softcover (that's been generally the default until 5e), it's that it's the first major supplement for 5e that I've seen that's in softcover, everything else is in hardcover, and I don't see anything about a hardcover version. Any idea what gives?