Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground L

[GreenSerpent]

I have an idea.

Unfortunately the backstory is going to be absolutely ridiculous. We're talking Zoolander level here.

[Venger]

I have an idea.

Unfortunately the backstory is going to be absolutely ridiculous. We're talking Zoolander level here.

you've got my vote for HM if you actually write derek zoolander.

[GreenSerpent]

you've got my vote for HM if you actually write derek zoolander.

Well, currently - without revealing too much - the word "murderhobo" could describe him pretty well.

[nedz]

Well, currently - without revealing too much - the word "murderhobo" could describe him pretty well.

So he's PC material then ?

[Thurbane]

Interesting choice.

I like the concept of the PrC, but I have to agree with others in saying that many, if not most, of it's class features are pretty poorly defined.

[GreenSerpent]

So he's PC material then ?

Yep!

Only problem is that unless I can find a rule interpretation, he'll be more-or-less limited to one specific race which'll make him setting-specific.

Important question. Regarding the Prophetic depravity trait, it states you suffer the effects of continuous nightmares. This would result in being constantly exhausted and gaining infinite amounts of depravity (as of page 54 HoH - as there is no way to lift or prevent the nightmares, there is no relief from them, and so the DC to avoid depravity continues scaling upwards).

Considering this is vital to my character idea, this seems slightly out of wack with the rest of the minor depravity penalties. What is the Chairman's decision regarding this?

[123456789blaaa]

So...taint...I did not expect that.

This PRC is full BAB, Cha-focused, somewhat fear-oriented, and has debuffing spells on its class list. I will fall to my knees and sing praises to the gods of optimization if the contestants Vizzini themselves out of any combination of: Paladin, Hexblade, Blackguard, and Binder.

<snip>
Give me a day to think on it - I believe the RAI is to mean a single monster (like Human, Aboleth, Red Dragon, etc...), but that seems extraordinarily limiting.

I vote for it to be a type like aberration, humanoid, ooze etc. The other interpretations make Sworn Enemy kind of useless. You did say you wanted this to be a break right? .

[GreenSerpent]

I will fall to my knees and sing praises to the gods of optimization if the contestants Vizzini themselves out of any combination of: Paladin, Hexblade, Blackguard, and Binder.

Get singing. Mine can, with a little rejigging, involve none of them at all. It'd tank the saves a bit though.

[thethird]

I also got around using the most restrictive reading of sworn enemy and for that I am happy.

Still, shenanigans, so many shenanigans.

[Deadline]

Last round and this round there have been a rash of "comments that should not be". As a reminder, here's a rather important bit of the OP:

Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

[Venger]

grim resolve not stacking with similar abilities is really rustling my jimmies.

I know their intention was to throw entrants a bone and say "hey you don't have to force yourself to get cha to saves some other way"

but what they failed to consider was that some of us might actually like a little bit of cha as a side dish to our cha.

oh well, back to the drawing board. sorry, (redacted), maybe next time I'll be able to throw you in the mix.

[Amphetryon]

Last round and this round there have been a rash of "comments that should not be". As a reminder, here's a rather important bit of the OP:

Thanks for re(re-re-re-etc)-posting that reminder. Sometimes you'd like it in giant moving script in the OP, you know?

[Haluesen]

Last round and this round there have been a rash of "comments that should not be". As a reminder, here's a rather important bit of the OP:

I shall keep this in mind. *salutes*

Still have no idea what I want to go with so far, except that I want to really dig through all my available materials and I want to test the Count's words there. I don't even like any of those classes, so avoiding them is a lot easier.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So...taint...I did not expect that.

This PRC is full BAB, Cha-focused, somewhat fear-oriented, and has debuffing spells on its class list. I will fall to my knees and sing praises to the gods of optimization if the contestants Vizzini themselves out of any combination of: Paladin, Hexblade, Blackguard, and Binder.

Please see section of SI which has specific synergy with at least one of these classes at the bottom of Page 89 in HoH.

This is an interesting enough SI that I might actually submit an entry for the first time since... well... I think I submitted one for Scion of Tem Et Nu or something (was a Shadowcaster/Ranger entry, since Scion was like the ONLY class which actually advanced Shadowcaster casting at full BAB), but haven't been too active lately.

[123456789blaaa]

Please see section of SI which has specific synergy with at least one of these classes at the bottom of Page 89 in HoH.

This is an interesting enough SI that I might actually submit an entry for the first time since... well... I think I submitted one for Scion of Tem Et Nu or something (was a Shadowcaster/Ranger entry, since Scion was like the ONLY class which actually advanced Shadowcaster casting at full BAB), but haven't been too active lately.

I know about that section. I can't see the point you're making though. Could you state it directly?

[mattie_p]

I know about that section. I can't see the point you're making though. Could you state it directly?

I believe that ShneekyTheLost is referring to specific benefits that members (or former members) of at least one class mentioned by you gain once they take levels in Corrupt Avenger. Making it a (potentially) obvious choice, and therefore rendering it off-limits by those Vizzini'ing themselves.

[yougi]

I know I said the same thing last time and ended up not participating, but... I've got a build all planned out. Let's hope the Chairman's ruling doesn't make me need to throw it out.

This being said, I feel like I must ask: what is Vizzini'ing?

[mattie_p]

I know I said the same thing last time and ended up not participating, but... I've got a build all planned out. Let's hope the Chairman's ruling doesn't make me need to throw it out.

This being said, I feel like I must ask: what is Vizzini'ing?

Vizzini'ing: from Vizzini (of Princess Bride Fame).

Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

In other words, you want to do something, but you think everyone else will do it (and thus cost you originality points) so you don't. But everyone thinks the same way, and thus no one selects the "obvious" option.

[Venger]

I know I said the same thing last time and ended up not participating, but... I've got a build all planned out. Let's hope the Chairman's ruling doesn't make me need to throw it out.

This being said, I feel like I must ask: what is Vizzini'ing?

vizzini in action

to convince yourself that others will use an ingredient because it's obvious, so you shouldn't use it.

then figure opponents will follow a similar thought proceess so you should not use that ingredient

then figure your opponents will assume you had puzzled this out, so you are safe using it

yoyo between these till you pick a position. like vizzini you're always wrong.

[yougi]

Vizzini'ing: from Vizzini (of Princess Bride Fame).

In other words, you want to do something, but you think everyone else will do it (and thus cost you originality points) so you don't. But everyone thinks the same way, and thus no one selects the "obvious" option.

vizzini in action

to convince yourself that others will use an ingredient because it's obvious, so you shouldn't use it.

then figure opponents will follow a similar thought proceess so you should not use that ingredient

then figure your opponents will assume you had puzzled this out, so you are safe using it

yoyo between these till you pick a position. like vizzini you're always wrong.

And now that I've publicly proven that I haven't seen the movie, I guess I'll have to stop using Montoya's line all the time for no reason. At least, until I watch it.

Thanks to the both of you for enlightening me on that.

[Venger]

And now that I've publicly proven that I haven't seen the movie, I guess I'll have to stop using Montoya's line all the time for no reason. At least, until I watch it.

Thanks to the both of you for enlightening me on that.

no problem. it's a 26 year old movie, so it shouldn't be very expensive to acquire a copy through legitimate means. you can probably even get the 25th anniversary edition if you want commentary and stuff.

you're quite welcome

[nedz]

Of course the counter to vizzini is to submit two builds. One is the obvious move, now you're not aiming to win with this build but rather to reduce the originality score of everyone else. The other is the original build.

[Vaz]

Yay for 54 entries.

Is there any way to voluntarily turn off the Taint Suppression outside of going into a tainted area?

[dysprosium]

Yay for 54 entries.

Well I don't know if I could enter that many in the time frame given . . .

[Deadline]

Give me a day to think on it - I believe the RAI is to mean a single monster (like Human, Aboleth, Red Dragon, etc...), but that seems extraordinarily limiting.

For what it's worth, I'm also in favor of using the PHB favored enemy chart. It's clean, easy to understand, and isn't so limiting as to be a mostly pointless ability. (I would be against allowing it to utilize the various alternate favored enemy options, like arcanists).

Not that this is a democracy or anything, just sayin'.

[Venger]

For what it's worth, I'm also in favor of using the PHB favored enemy chart. It's clean, easy to understand, and isn't so limiting as to be a mostly pointless ability. (I would be against allowing it to utilize the various alternate favored enemy options, like arcanists).

Not that this is a democracy or anything, just sayin'.

Even though sworn foe gives us the cityscape hated organization ACF.

[Kreuz]

Is there a source where I can check if something has been updated from 3.0 to 3.5?

I finally came up with something.

[Vaz]

There is a site called dndtools which often (but not always) provides links to other sources of the same feat; I used it in the last round to ensure that I had the most up to date reading of Thrall to Demon, for example.

[Amphetryon]

I know about that section. I can't see the point you're making though. Could you state it directly?

So, you're asking for an INCREASED amount of speculation on builds? Really?

[123456789blaaa]

So, you're asking for an INCREASED amount of speculation on builds? Really?

I did not understand the point Shneeky was making at all. Was it related to speculation on the builds? I didn't know and I didn't even think of it. So if my request for clarification could have led to increased speculation, I can only plead ignorance. It was not intentional.