Altered Carbon season 2

[gomipile]

Season 2 of Altered Carbon has been up for a few days on Netflix. Like the first season, I find it quite enjoyable. It's still got a feel somewhere between transhuman Scottish space opera and 90's post-cyberpunk. This season does have some noir elements, but I'd say those were stronger in the first season.

I could nitpick and complain about details. But the fact remains that there's not much live-action on screen these days in this category, and this does a pretty good job at filling that gap. So, I'll leave my nit-picking till later in this thread if a discussion picks up.

The actors and characters, both new and returning, are quite good, in my opinion. It was nice seeing Simone Missick in this (She played Misty Knight in Luke Cage and other Netflix Marvel series.) Anthony Mackie was great as Takeshi Kovacs.

And i was very happy to see

Spoiler

Show

Chris Conner return as Poe. Dina Shihabi was wonderful as Dig 301 as well. The two AIs played off of each other in a very entertaining and emotionally satisfying manner, IMO.

That's what I've got without major late-season spoilers. Overall, I solidly recommend both seasons to anyone who enjoys science fiction. What do you all think of this season?

[Anonymouswizard]

After the first series annoyed me by fundementally changing the stance of the Quellists and Kovacs (I don't mind them de-antiheroing him, but I find 'eternal life is bad bad bad' to be overplayed compared to the books 'you know if we live forever we could eat the rich with a poached egg and hollandaise sauce'), pretty much the only way this series could get me to watch it would be to flash forward fifty to a hundred years (I forget how much) adapt Broken Angels.

[Eldan]

The changes to the Quellists were annoying. But then, the book didn't entirely click with me either. How are the later books and Season 2? I like the setting, but does the actual story get any better? Because

Spoiler

Show

Megarich guy kills prostitute and tries to cover it up

Is the most boring overused noir plot ever.

[Anonymouswizard]

The changes to the Quellists were annoying. But then, the book didn't entirely click with me either. How are the later books and Season 2? I like the setting, but does the actual story get any better?

The books tell unconnected stories in different systems, I think Woken Furies might be on Harlan's world, haven't read it. Book 2, Broken Angels, is about everybody trying to reach an alien MacGuffin in the middle of a war for fun and profit, including Takeshi abandoning his side early on to chase after it.

[Dragonus45]

Yea the show is sort of off on it’s own tangent, but I think I like the show a bit more. Rereading the books in anticipation I realized they were just a tad bit lol so edgy side and I like Tak more in the series. Even if I dislike the backstory changes to what the Envoys were. It feels a bit like they skipped the second book straight to adapting something more along the third, but I’m only two episodes in on this season so far.

[Leewei]

Season 2 was solid. More, below.

Spoiler

Show

Poe + Lizzie scenes were heartwarming.

A lot less full frontal stuff, which I'm pretty okay with them dropping, to be honest.

The function of ONI and coils probably could have been explained better.

Season 1 was very noir. Season 2, far less so.

I liked seeing something of the elders.

[Olinser]

My main problem with it is that you're effectively watching a completely different show.

Kovacs is portrayed as a COMPLETELY different character than he was in Season 1. Motivations, characterization, and general attitude he's completely different and unrecognizable.

Then the plot is a confused mess at the start. Season 1 had a fairly clear plot arc - Kovacs was taken off ice and we're being introduced to the universe through the eyes of somebody that hasn't been awake for 250 years. But there was always a clear goal running throughout. Investigate the murder of Bancroft, and solve side plots as they come up. Who actually killed him? Who knows what happened but isn't talking? Who sent Dimi to get Kovacs? These are all good questions, but the core plot is still running throughout keeping us on track.

Season 2? 3 episodes in and you have still only a vague idea of what the hell is going on. OK so this guy wanted Kovacs to protect him. Oops he's dead..... and Kovacs just doesn't care. They tried to make a big deal out of the reveal that Evil Protectorate Enforcer was Jaeger but it was so pathetically obvious and cliche from the start it falls completely flat. He's supposed to be this bigshot in the Protectorate but he has no actual authority to do anything. Quell has been missing for hundreds of years and Kovacs has been searching for her for 30 years, and she suddenly appears.... killing some random people in bars? Evil Governor Lady just goes around being evil with no actual indication of a plan or motive for most of the season. You have literally NO IDEA what her goals are for over half the season.

It's just a confused mess with no idea what is actually going on.

Add that to the fact that the supporting cast was replaced by characters/actors of significantly lower quality. The actress who plays Quell just can't hold a candle to Martha Higareda as an actress. Elliot was replaced by Tough Bounty Hunter Woman who doesn't really GET character development other than being Tough Bounty Hunter Woman. She's not a character she's a walking cliche. Like seriously I can't even remember her actual name in the show.

So to sum up, we have a generally less talented team of actors trying to execute a confused mess of a plot. Season 1 was superior in pretty much every aspect.

[BisectedBrioche]

To be honest, I thought the first season was OK, but it's had a bit of an Attack on Titan problem for me.

That's to say, the creator of the work's antics (which we obviously don't need to go into here) killed my interest in S2.

[Dragonus45]

To be honest, I thought the first season was OK, but it's had a bit of an Attack on Titan problem for me.

That's to say, the creator of the work's antics (which we obviously don't need to go into here) killed my interest in S2.

Uhhh, I had no idea about off screen antics? Quick google search didn't bring anything but I might be looking in the wrong spot. Which creator, the author of the book series or the someone involved in the netflix production?

[BisectedBrioche]

Uhhh, I had no idea about off screen antics? Quick google search didn't bring anything but I might be looking in the wrong spot. Which creator, the author of the book series or the someone involved in the netflix production?

After a certain popular children's author came out in support of someone who unsuccessfully tried to sue for the right to discriminate against transgender people, Richard Morgan, the author cosigned what she said. Then went on a lengthy twitter rant trying the use the philosophy of his work to justify it.

[Dragonus45]

After a certain popular children's author came out in support of someone who unsuccessfully tried to sue for the right to discriminate against transgender people, Richard Morgan, the author cosigned what she said. Then went on a lengthy twitter rant trying the use the philosophy of his work to justify it.

Ahh, I was looking for someone associated with the show. If it makes you feel better the second season is effectively totally off the plot of his work in most senses.

[Chen]

After a certain popular children's author came out in support of someone who unsuccessfully tried to sue for the right to discriminate against transgender people, Richard Morgan, the author cosigned what she said. Then went on a lengthy twitter rant trying the use the philosophy of his work to justify it.

Seems kinda silly to not support the show because of this, considering he was merely a consultant for it. You're punishing a whole different set of people for his transgressions. The second season isn't anything at all like the second novel and only vaguely similar to the third.

[gomipile]

I'm still hoping that this thread will have at least several people who actually watch season 2 and then discuss what they've seen. Since the thread is about season 2, not season 1, or the books, or the author. Mentioning those in passing is one thing, but please don't derail the thread into post-after-post that aren't about what's in season 2.

[BisectedBrioche]

Seems kinda silly to not support the show because of this, considering he was merely a consultant for it. You're punishing a whole different set of people for his transgressions. The second season isn't anything at all like the second novel and only vaguely similar to the third.

I didn't say "punish the entire creative team of the show". I said it, for me personally, killed my interest.

Moving back to the second season itself; how does the plot compare? Is it more of a self contained arc, or does it build on S1?

[Dragonus45]

I'm still hoping that this thread will have at least several people who actually watch season 2 and then discuss what they've seen. Since the thread is about season 2, not season 1, or the books, or the author. Mentioning those in passing is one thing, but please don't derail the thread into post-after-post that aren't about what's in season 2.

Altered Carbon is all of those things, not just one season of the show that is the second season of that show that is based off a book series. And I've been busy so I really only have finished up episode 3, and so far something about the season just feels off for me.

[gomipile]

Altered Carbon is all of those things, not just one season of the show that is the second season of that show that is based off a book series. And I've been busy so I really only have finished up episode 3, and so far something about the season just feels off for me.

I would like the bulk of this thread to be discussing season 2. If anyone wants to discuss those things in service of discussing what they've seen in season 2, that would be fine. But if they want to discuss those things instead of and to the exclusion of discussing season 2, I'd prefer they start their own thread with an appropriate title for that.

I'd like to come back to this thread sometime and see that there are people I can discuss season 2 with based on us all having watched it. There is a reason I titled the thread referring to season 2, and not just a general title of "Altered Carbon."

[Anonymouswizard]

I'd like to come back to this thread sometime and see that there are people I can discuss season 2 with based on us all having watched it. There is a reason I titled the thread referring to season 2, and not just a general title of "Altered Carbon."

Unfortunately that's not really how threads or people work, it's very rare for a work of fiction and it's associates to have multiple threads. Honestly the read in getting right now is that people are more interested in discussing things other than series two.


Anyway, question for everybody who's seen it, does series 2 continue the trend of taking elements of the world building and making it even darker than it was originally? The world of the original books wasn't a dystopia, there were problems but it wasn't to the level of 'the main character's employee watches married couples fight to the death while they screw over their children'.

[Olinser]

Unfortunately that's not really how threads or people work, it's very rare for a work of fiction and it's associates to have multiple threads. Honestly the read in getting right now is that people are more interested in discussing things other than series two.


Anyway, question for everybody who's seen it, does series 2 continue the trend of taking elements of the world building and making it even darker than it was originally? The world of the original books wasn't a dystopia, there were problems but it wasn't to the level of 'the main character's employee watches married couples fight to the death while they screw over their children'.

That's the problem. There's basically zero world building going on. You're on a completely different world with a completely different set of characters but everything is functionally the same.

You don't get any kind of actual world building until LATE in the season.

Spoiler

Show

When they finally bring out the Elders.

By then its a hurried mess of a wrap up of the so-called plot.

As I said, this whole thing feels like a team of less talented actors (with the exception of Anthony Mackie) executing a plot by less talented writers. It felt like they were TRYING to play up this 'mystery' angle and just failing miserably.

[Dragonus45]

That's the problem. There's basically zero world building going on. You're on a completely different world with a completely different set of characters but everything is functionally the same.

You don't get any kind of actual world building until LATE in the season.

Spoiler

Show

When they finally bring out the Elders.

By then its a hurried mess of a wrap up of the so-called plot.

As I said, this whole thing feels like a team of less talented actors (with the exception of Anthony Mackie) executing a plot by less talented writers. It felt like they were TRYING to play up this 'mystery' angle and just failing miserably.

About half way through the season now, I feel like my prediction that adapting the plot of the books being borderline impossible has borne out and while they are capable of making an interesting one in the setting they aren't quite as able to make anything as compelling as the books were, for all their other flaws.