OOTS #1161 - The Discussion Thread

[ellindsey]

Neither a lizard nor an allosaur is a dwarf. Bloodfeast can't go through.

This really makes me wonder. If someone was shapeshifted into a dwarf and tried to walk through the barrier, would they get through yet be turned back into their original species, or would they be unable to get through at all? I suppose it depends on which clause takes place first - negating any spells on them, or only permitting dwarves to pass.

[Hekko]

Hilgya and (probably) Minrah still off screen.

Keep in mind that Durkon said there are three rings making up the council chambers, each with its own set of... rules? protections? - but Gontor* only seems to know about two of them. The vampires probably don't expect Minrah to show up at all, and may be unclear about Hilgya (or think she could be easily dominated, and therefore not much of a threat).

So showing the Order is like saying, here we are, look at us. Minrah and Hilgya are the good guys' sleigh of hand.

[Elves]

We know that V knows Greater Invis though, so it's a bit odd. I guess either explanation works, personally I prefer Grey Wolf's. Though FWIW the scene would work just as well if Roy got caught seemingly inexplicably, with V then speaking out of thin air.

[Reboot]

Remove paralysis is the most obvious; it's even an ideal candidate for a wand, should Haley retroactively have one.

That seems like a not-especially-efficent way of fixing this, with four targets - including Mr Scruffy - down. With the worm's caster level, a +2 bonus seems unlikely to be enough for the Order of Poor Will Saves, and guaranteed-release would require four separate castings.

(And given that Haley is the one that gestures in the direction of the clerics, she probably doesn't)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Assuming that [Hilgya] won't decide to turn on Durkon while he's alone out there on the bridge against the nightcrawler and a vampiric cleric of at least 13th level.

As long as he keeps both feet on the ground, he shouldn't be able to put either in his mouth. He has nothing to worry about.

The using an immobile comrade as weapon idea was from Blackwing, it will take a bit more character development for V to oppose such suggestions on principle (rather because of ineffectiveness), and V might never get there.

To paraphrase something I said earlier, V has gone through enough character development to take others' suggestions seriously, but hasn't gone through quite enough to realize they can ignore them when they're stupid.

If Bloodfeast were thrown through the orange barrier, wouldn't that dispel the polymorph effect and allow it to revert to allosaur form? That could be very bad for the vampires, but also for their thralls. And possibly for the ceiling.

Neither a lizard nor an allosaur is a dwarf. Bloodfeast can't go through.

I'm imagining two possible scenarios from Belkar chucking Bloodfeast at the barrier:
1. Touching the barrier is enough to dispel baleful polymorph and Bloodfeast turns the tide of battle, but gets knocked off the narrow platform before it can completely end the encounter.
2. Bloodfeast bounces off, Elan correctly realizes it can't go through due to not being a dwarf, and he promptly glues a beard on to trick the barrier into letting Bloodfeast through.

Spoiler: Unrelated tangent

Show

...which, in Elan-logic, leads to a dinosaur with a beard.

In a D&D game I played, the party druid had a belt of dwarvenkind, which (among other things) gives you a beard. We joked that this applied even in animal forms, including the T. rex the druid turned into with polymorph. The joke lived on after the druid left the party, because the wizard regularly cast polymorph on party members, and the only T. rex he ever saw was the druid...

None of the characters has a player.

Eh, it's a joke, don't sweat it. I thought it was even an amusing joke.

[Jasdoif]

That seems like a not-especially-efficent way of fixing this, with four targets - including Mr Scruffy - down. With the worm's caster level, a +2 bonus seems unlikely to be enough for the Order of Poor Will Saves, and guaranteed-release would require four separate castings.

Caster level doesn't affect the save DC (unlike the dispel DC).

[Shoelessgdowar]

No it isn't, it's on Team Hel.

Team Evil's up at the Pole, and has no dog in this fight.

Actually, technically Hilgya is Team Evil adjacent (the Linear Guild was working with Team Evil), so there is a tiny possibility that Team Evil does have a Dwarf in the fight (I would not want to call Hilgya a dog, she can be quite vindictive about slights on her... it would also mean we are calling Kutzu a little SOB).

[KorvinStarmast]

Actually, technically Helgya is Team Evil adjacent (the Linear Guild was working with Team Evil), so there is a tiny possibility that Team Evil does have a Dwarf in the fight (I would not want to call Helgya a dog, she can be quite vindictive about slights on her... it would also mean we are calling Kutzu a little SOB).

Hilgya, and I don't think she's with team Evil at all.

Why does Loki want that Talisman?

[Hekko]

Why does Loki want that Talisman?

Does Loki need a reason?

Retrospectively, he planted Hilgya in there to have her near the gate and the talisman was an excuse to get away with it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Actually, technically Helgya is Team Evil adjacent (the Linear Guild was working with Team Evil), so there is a tiny possibility that Team Evil does have a Dwarf in the fight.

Hilgya used to work for the Linear Guild, who used to work for Xykon. It's been well over 1,000 strips since either of those was the case. I'd say Hilgya is (probably) Linear-Guild-adjacent, and the Linear Guild is within a 10-foot radius of Team Evil. It's possible that Hilgya is adjacent to Team Evil, but there are plenty more ways for her to be at least two spaces away.

[understatement]

These are 2 Large elementals, right? (eyeballing from size)

I'm suddenly craving for the insta-kill plutonium Elemental that will surely and realistically happen one day.

So, Roy's Mind Blank is offline, then?

[Ghosty]

These are 2 Large elementals, right? (eyeballing from size)

I'm suddenly craving for the insta-kill plutonium Elemental that will surely and realistically happen one day.

So, Roy's Mind Blank is offline, then?

Should be large elementals, since the Exarggh got two of them from Summon VII. The Pu elemental would be interesting, from a distance. Louis Slotin could tell you more, but you'd need a Ouija board.

I guess the Order has been in Firmament more than 24 hours after V casted that spell on Roy. One reason I thought the LDW would lead with GDM is so any opponents' buffs that'd protect against its save or suck arsenal could be removed. Worked anyway, I guess. Now comes the devouring...

I'm with Peelee: that long shot of the battle is a fantastically drawn scene.

[eilandesq]

Reached the end of his movement range for his turn? Remember when he stopped in mid-air for that same reason?



They had at least a couple of turns. And with DC of 10 + 1/2 level + CHA, Greg would be sitting at around 18-20. Enough that it'd be a ~25% chance for even Hilgya, likely the best Will save of them all, which means that across two turns, chances where realistically possible to be failed (>40%). If the lower ones concentrated on the easy targets like Belkar and Elan, the whole thing is perfectly plausible.

Grey Wolf

With neither Roy or anyone else noticing?

[RabidEel]

Hilgya used to work for the Linear Guild, who used to work for Xykon. It's been well over 1,000 strips since either of those was the case. I'd say Hilgya is (probably) Linear-Guild-adjacent, and the Linear Guild is within a 10-foot radius of Team Evil. It's possible that Hilgya is adjacent to Team Evil, but there are plenty more ways for her to be at least two spaces away.

But where does Kevin Bacon fit in?

[Verappo]

Is there a thread listing every instance of a character lifting their finger to point something out? It never ceases to make me laugh

[Shoelessgdowar]

Is it bad that I kind of want Wormy not to lose?
Weren't there any classic elementals during the first book? With the Earth\Fire\Air sigil parts?

There were elemental beings (Celia is a Sylph, an Air Elemental being), but not actual pure Elemental Golems of Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Shadow, Light, Metal, Wood, Sand, Magma, Ooze, Ice, Salt, etc.

Turns out, there was a Water Elemental born from 2 Hydrogen Elementals and an Oxygen Elemental in a bonus strip of Book 4 (Don't Split the Party), but besides that, the only elementals we had seen until now have been Redcloak's Periodic Table Elementals. Too bad Redcloak hasn't learned chemistry, otherwise he'd know he just needs to summon carbon Elementals or Aluminum and Oxygen Elementals, and he can made Diamonds and Sapphires galore respectively.

Hilgya, and I don't think she's with team Evil at all.

Why does Loki want that Talisman?

As I said, adjacent, not Evil (Despite what some people think, that she is a heartless monster).

Loki wanted the Talisman so Nale didn't.

Does Loki need a reason?

Retrospectively, he planted Hilgya in there to have her near the gate and the talisman was an excuse to get away with it.

Does he need one? No. Does he have one? Almost absolutely, but we have not yet learned it.

Hilgya used to work for the Linear Guild, who used to work for Xykon. It's been well over 1,000 strips since either of those was the case. I'd say Hilgya is (probably) Linear-Guild-adjacent, and the Linear Guild is within a 10-foot radius of Team Evil. It's possible that Hilgya is adjacent to Team Evil, but there are plenty more ways for her to be at least two spaces away.

Hilgya could have made a deal with the IFCC, who also seem to have some influence still over the Linear Guild, and may even be manipulating Team Evil. We don't know all the ramifications, and would need a pretty impressive murder board and venn diagram hybrid to track all the intersections and links in the Stickverse.

[B. Dandelion]

Roy's seems frozen into the exact same position and expression now as O-Chul was when he wound up at MitD's tea party. Flopsy is now Stiffly.

[Jasdoif]

But where does Kevin Bacon fit in?

Spoiler: Don't Split the Party bonus content

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The relationship chart that constitutes the cast of characters in the front of the book has a relationship line for "Sabine wants to shtup Kevin Bacon".

[Squire Doodad]

You know you're nearing the endgame when the foes start using advanced tactical strategies instead of "3 traps+slash until things die".

[zimmerwald1915]

Too bad Redcloak hasn't learned chemistry, otherwise he'd know he just needs to summon carbon Elementals or Aluminum and Oxygen Elementals, and he can made Diamonds and Sapphires galore respectively.

In fact Redcloak got "passing grades in Chem."

And why would Redcloak of all people want sapphires?

[Squire Doodad]

In fact Redcloak got "passing grades in Chem."

And why would Redcloak of all people want sapphires?

To throw at the Azurites to mock them, obviously.

I'm pretty sure Redcloak has attempted to harvest diamonds from Carbon Elementals in the past, but eventually stopped either because it was too difficult or the other elementals started complaining.

Also, if he can make sapphires, he can make rubies with a few relatively minor changes. Sadly, he cannot make Emerald through this process.

[understatement]

Redcloak's new Implosion: heat target up with divine fire, get grappled by Ice and Water Elemental.

Boom.

[5crownik007]

Panel 9.
Roy, that was close, you almost had another 443.

[Aveline]

Neither a lizard nor an allosaur is a dwarf. Bloodfeast can't go through.

I wouldn't be surprised if animals weren't subject to the "dwarves only" rule, either implicitly (the rule is only for people) or explicitly (in order to allow councilmembers' service animals into the chamber).

[Ghosty]

I wouldn't be surprised if animals weren't subject to the "dwarves only" rule, either implicitly (the rule is only for people) or explicitly (in order to allow councilmembers' service animals into the chamber).

Have we seen any service animals that weren't classed as Ranger's companions, Mage familiars, or other similar situations? Is there a Stickworld ADA law in the Dwarven Lands?

[Aveline]

Have we seen any service animals that weren't classed as Ranger's companions, Mage familiars, or other similar situations? Is there a Stickworld ADA law in the Dwarven Lands?

However you'd classify a service animal (how about "service animal"? Not every dwarf has class levels), I think familiars and animal companions could be exempt too.

Edit: I mean, familiars and animal companions of dwarves who would normally be allowed to pass through the orange barrier.

[gerryq]

Neither a lizard nor an allosaur is a dwarf. Bloodfeast can't go through.

Bloodfeast is surely a dwarf allosaur! The only question is whether he is enough of a rules lawy

[drazen]

makes sense.

also it's lucky mr scruffy didn't get a direct hit from the rock, that likely would have been an instant kill.

I am glad Scruffy survived but very angry at the worm/elementals for hurting him (Scruffy has damage marks).

Also, someone else mentioned a plutonium elemental as an instakill. I'd suggest a Polonium elemental would be even more deadly. Or summoning a Cesium Elemental on your underwater adventure. :)

[NoHaxJustPi]

Astatine Elemental. Biggest you can summon.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

With neither Roy or anyone else noticing?

You're the one that brought up the fact that they are looking at the vampires, not at each other.

Grey Wolf