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2020-09-24, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
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- Jerusalem
- Gender
Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
So, when yo ucast a spell on yourself, your familiar gets to share that spell, correct?
So, 1: Any spell with "personal" as its target can effect the familiar, correct? Bladeweave, for example, would give both the caster and their familiar a dazing touch attack as they strike?
2. What happens with alter self? Do I get to pick a small to diminutive magical beast? Foes the spell turn the familiar into a humanoid? Does it fail to effect it?
Thanks!
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2020-09-24, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
As long as your familiar is within 5 feet of you when you cast it, and (if the duration isn't instantaneous) doesn't move more than 5 feet away from you while the spell's up, yes.
1: Yes, but your familiar would need to remain within 5 feet of you as normal.
2: You could pick a magical beast within 1 size category in either direction of your familiar's normal size, yes.
While share spells allows you to share spells with your familiar where it would not normally be a valid target, such as construct essence, for spells with variable effects depending on a target's type (such as alter self,) you do not treat your familiar as though it were you for the purpose of adjudicating effects.
Hope that clears things up.I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
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Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-09-24, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2020
- Location
- Jerusalem
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
Thank you, Venger.
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2020-09-24, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
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2020-09-24, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
I actually think Venger has this one correct, especially given the first line of alter self it appears to me that the way Venger explains it is the intended effect.
"You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form (such as humanoid or magical beast). The new form must be within one size category of your normal size."
Also if you are wanting to go down the road of pumping up your familiar for battle bonded familiar is a great feat to take it lets spells effect your familiar as long as you are within 30' of each other.
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2020-09-24, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-09-24, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
PHBII
you might also take a look at Dictum's Familiar handbook it gives a lot of great info about optimizing your familiar.
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2020-09-24, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
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2020-09-24, 02:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
I thought you might be talking about bonded familiar, but it doesn't do what you're describing.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-09-24, 02:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Indianapolis
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
Companion Spellbond does this (can Share Spells up to 30 feet away, plus you can cast Touch spells at your companion from up to Close range instead) but as the name implies it's for Animal Companions. I don't think it would especially hurt anything to let it apply to anything that has the Share Spells feature, but RAW it's just Animal Companion, not Familiars or Special Mounts.
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2020-09-24, 02:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
Oh, balancewise I agree entirely. I was just curious if there was some similar feature for familiars I didn't know about.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-09-24, 03:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2019
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
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2020-09-24, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Texas
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
Last edited by Venger; 2020-09-24 at 03:39 PM.
I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.
Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!
Iron Chef Medals!
Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition
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2020-09-24, 11:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2016
- Location
- New York
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
Throw me in camp "you = caster".
You cast alter self to turn into a goblin. The alter self being cast = "turn into goblin". turn into goblin is cast on you, and your familiar since you can share spells. the familiar is being affected by your spell cast on you, it shouldnt get a different effect. the only question (which im undecided on) is whether it successfully turns them into a goblin like you were, or if it fails since theyre not a valid form.
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2020-09-25, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2019
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
I feel like it would make more sense from an in-universe perspective for the transformation to be limited by the transformed being's type (because of conservation of mass or something like that, maybe?) than the caster's. Though I could see Remuko's second suggestion (the spell failing since it's trying to turn the familiar into an invalid form) being true, for similar reasons.
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2020-09-28, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
This is ambiguous in the rules, which means that the DM must make a ruling.
I would rule that a familiar could only be altered into a magical beast, and therefore the wizard could become a goblin while the familiar became a pseudodragon. My current DM has made a similar ruling.
I'm aware different DMs would make different rulings, which doesn't bother me at all. That's (part of) what we have a DM for.Last edited by Jay R; 2020-09-28 at 02:20 PM.
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2020-09-28, 02:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
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2020-09-29, 03:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
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2020-09-30, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: Familiars, alter self, and other personal spells.
I got excited there for a second that maybe Red Herring was once an april fools monster but sadly if it was my google foo failed me. This was the closest match I was able to pull:
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/C...verseid=476192