A Bit Of Venting

[Themrys]

They also did a study that women are attracted to different types of men at different times of the month. So asking a girl out may be possible this week, but not be possible two-weeks from now.

Highly doubtful. Women don't decide who they go on a date with depending on whether or not they want to have sex with that man at that exact moment. Well, unless you are on THAT kind of dating site.

To me, only perhaps 5% of men rank as attractive purely from their looks, but I always prefer the same type, and I would remember what type that is even if my preference were to change slightly for a couple of days.

Factors like whether I have time at the moment, whether I feel like talking to someone, and whether the guy seems like he'd be entertaining even if I am not into him, are much more important in deciding whether I go on a date with a not-very-my-type-guy.

That study you refer to was probably done by showing women dozens and dozens of pictures of reasonably attractive men, who may not even have been real. Sure, you might find a small difference there, but it is very unlikely that you'll encounter competition by a guy who looks almost exactly like you, just a tiny bit more testosterone-poisoned, or whatever this study found to make the difference.

[Anymage]

Sure, as I said I agree there are other and worse problems. That does not in fact make it right or okay, which is exactly the point you are defending. Honest dudes are going to be the ones stung by that behavior, and the morass of others are the ones who are inured to caring. It is a choice that actively contributes to making online dating worse.

The catastrophizing element gets a lot of air time (harassment, stalking, various threats and abuse that get unleashed upon rejection), but a lot of it comes down to simple time and attention bottlenecks. Average looking women can easily get enough messages that they start to feel drained before reading to the end of their inbox, never mind actually replying to people. Attractive women can have inboxes so full that keeping on top of them would amount to a part time job. Even in fantasy land where you can eliminate all the bad actors, boring prosaic issues are going to continue to exist.

I see your points on both of those. I think running it like a nightclub (men pay to keep them out, women are free to keep them going) seems like a winning strategy if a seemingly unfair one.

And then tons of thirsty boys list themselves as lesbians in order to get in free. You won't have a meaningful barrier to entry without requiring some form of verification, and the problems (costs, privacy, signup hassle and delay) will make it much harder to build a critical user base.

I can see why you'd think that, with what I wrote. No, this is when I add people from their contact info on their bio (on Tinder or OK Cupid or whatever) so we haven't matched yet.

"I rarely read this, you're more likely to reach me through IG" in practice means "I want to raise my IG follower count, but will be annoyed if you make it weird by trying to do something like interact with me". At least most sites worth anything will aggressively squelch anyone who tries "venmo me $5 and see what happens".

Spam and bots are an unfortunate reality of dating apps having gone mainstream, and they do contribute to the background noise that causes people to tune others out. If you want to try figuring out the secret sauce to avoid the problems that plague any mass communication device, you're welcome to try. Just keep in mind that you won't change human nature. One of the big things we've learned from Tinder is that people tend to prioritize the easy/lazy option ahead of other ones.

[darkrose50]

Highly doubtful. Women don't decide who they go on a date with depending on whether or not they want to have sex with that man at that exact moment. Well, unless you are on THAT kind of dating site.

To me, only perhaps 5% of men rank as attractive purely from their looks, but I always prefer the same type, and I would remember what type that is even if my preference were to change slightly for a couple of days.

Factors like whether I have time at the moment, whether I feel like talking to someone, and whether the guy seems like he'd be entertaining even if I am not into him, are much more important in deciding whether I go on a date with a not-very-my-type-guy.

That study you refer to was probably done by showing women dozens and dozens of pictures of reasonably attractive men, who may not even have been real. Sure, you might find a small difference there, but it is very unlikely that you'll encounter competition by a guy who looks almost exactly like you, just a tiny bit more testosterone-poisoned, or whatever this study found to make the difference.

We are all animals.

It is not conscious, but evidently women in the study were attracted to high-testosterone features when they are most able to become pregnant, and lower testosterone features otherwise.

Here is a bit on one of the studies don on a dating site:
https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/ok...enderMode=ie11

Here is one about smell and testosterone:
https://www.livescience.com/28812-wo...anly-guys.html

[Honest Tiefling]

Yes, some studies show a difference in attraction based on a woman's menstrual cycle, but it's not a lot of help for JNAproductions. Firstly, I doubt they are throwing the net so wide that minor statistical probabilities aren't going to be a factor.

Secondly, assuming that JNAProductions is seeking companionship for a long term relationship from emotionally stable women, one would assume that this group is less likely to pick based on what they'd quite like to shag RIGHT NOW. They probably aren't making these decisions in the course of a few days anyway, so things should balance out.Not to mention, if this was a significant factor, birth control would be messing it up anyway.

Not judging if you use these services for less long term companionship by the way, I just assume you wouldn't really bring that sort of search up on a PG-13 forum.

Honestly, getting a nice hair cut and a dog is going to have a significantly higher impact.

[Anymage]

Psst. Tiefling. The person you responded to was just poorly quoting another user, and then adding entirely irrelevant commentary to it. In other words, an obvious bot trying to rack up postcount.

If you want to take issue with darkrose's overall point, that's one thing. Although it's worth noting that people's stated goals often fail to align with observed behavior, and humans are nowhere near as rational as they like to believe. Oftentimes what works isn't the same as what we'd like to believe works.

[Honest Tiefling]

If you want to take issue with darkrose's overall point, that's one thing. Although it's worth noting that people's stated goals often fail to align with observed behavior, and humans are nowhere near as rational as they like to believe. Oftentimes what works isn't the same as what we'd like to believe works.

True, but also remember that any good study of sexual attraction is also going to include people who think Africa is a country or that driving to your ex's house at 3AM to scream drunkenly at them is a good idea. I think JNAProductions should perhaps shoot a little higher than this.

People can be slaves to their own biology, but again, too small a sample size and too many outliers for it to necessary be a bigger concern than mentioning that you volunteer at your local animal shelter.

[Comrade]

We are all animals.

No we're not. Hell, the fact that we're not slaves to our every biological whim and urge is what separates us from animals. To claim otherwise is just silly and reductionist.

[halfeye]

We are all animals.

No we're not.

What do you imagine we are? I'm pretty sure we're not plants, fungi, or prokaryotes.

[Crow]

Honestly OP, Tinder is where you go when you've given up on finding a woman who is worth a damn. Get out do some activities in your local area, meet women face to face. Text is horrible for this kind of communication.

To start, you're walking into a situation where 80% of women are matching with just 20% of men (not my statistic, look it up); and then you're limiting your vehicles of charisma to whatever god gave you on the outside, and whatever plain text you can keep their attention with. Whatever other attractive qualities you have can't be brought to bear until you get that face to face meeting.

[Peelee]

Honestly OP, Tinder is where you go when you've given up on finding a woman who is worth a damn.

I'll be sure to let all the people in steady relationships through Tinder know.

[Crow]

I'll be sure to let all the people in steady relationships through Tinder know.

Oh my bad. Well keep at it JNA, maybe your luck will change.

[MDL]

Not only is the Tinder community absolutely rotten. Tinder itself is profiting off of people's deepest insecurities and they construct their algorithm to reduce the amount of exposure you get the longer it was since you last spent money on the app, to encourage you to buy gold or boosts. Not only that, but they also try to incentivize people who buy a lot of boosts to buy more by making their non-boost related matches non-existent.

It's a total 100% SCAM!

(it operates very similarly to a gambling site, now that I'm thinking of it. The house always wins.)

[Velaryon]

Not only is the Tinder community absolutely rotten. Tinder itself is profiting off of people's deepest insecurities and they construct their algorithm to reduce the amount of exposure you get the longer it was since you last spent money on the app, to encourage you to buy gold or boosts. Not only that, but they also try to incentivize people who buy a lot of boosts to buy more by making their non-boost related matches non-existent.

It's a total 100% SCAM!

(it operates very similarly to a gambling site, now that I'm thinking of it. The house always wins.)

Considering this is the same company that deliberately trashed OKCupid to drive users over to their competition (a.k.a. the other bajillion dating services owned by Match company), I have no problem whatsoever believing this.

[Honest Tiefling]

Honestly OP, Tinder is where you go when you've given up on finding a woman who is worth a damn.

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

[warty goblin]

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

Pretty much literally anywhere? Men ranging from worthless to downright defective are not, alas, a rare commodity.

[Lacco]

@JNA: You have my sympathies. From what I have seen here, you are really a nice guy - so don't give up. She's there somewhere and you'll find each other at the end.

This is about one lady I added quite a while ago, and I was just looking at my SnapChat stories and saw her post something along the lines of "Men suck at replying when texting." (The exact words are not forum appropriate, so paraphrased.)

I'm not sure if anyone already brought it forward but... you were not the target. Basically: you are not the one she wanted a reply from.

It's generally a good idea to actively ignore posts like these - or even evade people who do these posts on semi-regular basis. You don't need this. But if possible, check the comments below such messages. And if you find someone who writes something similar to what you would have written here on the forums to anyone who is in trouble...

So, I'm on Tinder and OK Cupid and... No, that's actually it.

Good luck, although I have always advised everyone to try finding someone interesting in RL. I know, it's harder, it's more... intimidating. It's also more rewarding.

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

I'm tempted to write "Tinder, OK Cupid", but that would be a joke in a bad taste. In my country, they hit a terrible place called "Pokec.sk"... a black hole that sucks life out of everyone who participates.

But Tiefling...? Tell your... friend... not to sell himself short. I have seen how you deal with people here. If your... friend... is 1/2 of that? They are worth many damns

[NRSASD]

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

According to one of my friends, Boston. Go to Boston apparently.

Also, since I don't think it's really been mentioned yet, all of my single female friends who I play D&D with use Bumble. I can vouch that there's at least 4 people worth finding on that app!

[truemane]

On-line dating's greatest strength is also its greatest liability: the ease with which many connections can be made and discarded. And we can all grognard it up about the kids these days and their fancy internets and back in my day you had to walk five miles uphill to get your Tinder matches, but the thing is what it is.

The way I survived on-line dating, in my polyamoury days, was to treat every interaction as its own end, and not as a means to any other end. If I saw someone I felt like talking to, I buzzed them with a message mentioning what I wanted to talk about. I only continued the conversation if the conversation was rewarding in and of itself. If, at any point, I felt like I wanted to talk to this person over a cup of coffee, I asked. And so on. I never treated any step in the process as though it were leading anywhere, or had to go anywhere, or had to mean anything more than it was.

People talk about on-line dating being a numbers games. And it is. But they mean it's a numbers game like, you have to cast a lot of lines before you can catch a fish. But what if you just enjoyed going fishing, as an act, in itself, outside of whether or not you caught any fish?

Add in a little empathy for just how much unwelcome sexual and romantic attention women (on average) are subject to throughout their lives and how much they're socialized to be polite and deferential to that attention even when they don't want to and let those two things be my guiding principles, and I found that I enjoyed on-line dating quite a bit, rejections and silences and all.

And, although this is just going to come across as an internet rando-brag, I'm sure, but even though I am not over six feet tall, nor rich, nor particularly good looking, I did very well. My response rate to initial messages was about 1 in 3 and, once a conversation was underway, I was rarely turned down for coffee when I asked.

And while I admit I have some other advantages (I'm very good with words, I'm funny, I was 'fishing' in polyamourous pools, which throws off the metrics quite a bit), I honestly believe a lot of my success came from the generally relaxed and easy-going 'vibe' generated by the fact that I wasn't trying to 'get' anywhere. I was just doing a thing, just to see what happens. People respond to that.

BUT, all that being said, no one's pretending that on-line dating is fun for dudes. It's not. Dating is an awkward process designed to generate failure states. I've found the best way to get through it is to see failure states as successes. As best you can.

[FinnLassie]

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

Step 1. Find yourself a group on a forum or Discord server that focuses on {Scrubbed} gamers of a certain nationality (Or find a group that is a niche group applying to your interests)
Step 2. Get to know people on a surface level, realise the group is 80% guys and get nervous
Step 3. Endure a wave of guys just wanting to get it on based on the fact that you're a woman part of this niche group
Step 4. Give up hope, these idiots don't even bother getting to know you before professing their love
Step 5. Randomly meet one of the members at an event
Step 6. Start chatting with the guy on a friendly level
Step 7. Start developing feelings towards that guy, but deny all feelings
Step 8. Have a mutual friend, that also happens to be your neighbour, that pushes you towards "aw come on give him a chance"
Step 9. Have the guy come and ask you about joining a dating website
Step 10. Get angry as hell and tell about your feelings
Step 11. Find out the feelings are mutual
Step 12. Start dating this thick brained man and find out you really care about and cherish each other


... I mean, it's an example story. Honestly, I have a massive history of failed relationships and dating disasters from the past 12 years that includes both meeting people online through forums (this place is definitely not one of them, not at all........ ), IRL and on stuff like OKCupid and Tinder. I guess my point is, hang out in spaces that has people who share the same interests as yourself, prefer local groups unless you're ok with long distance relationships. These groups can be IRL or over the internet. I'm personally indifferent about online dating services, though lean towards the side of caution as a woman. It can be uter hell. Also, beware truthers. For some reason they're very eager if you share at least one interest with them, then try to convince you to come to the dark side.

[Willie the Duck]

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

The honest answer is that there's no one good place, and hasn't been one in a very long time. The old joke for the boomer generation was that if were looking for a mate after high school/college, you took a pottery class, and it hasn't really changed since then (and pottery class was just an example, the point was you had to go out and find someone through a hobby or association or the like). Or there's the bar scene, but that's pretty much the same as looking online (having to sift a lot, lot of people being disingenuous, someone there really just trying to make money off of you, etc.). If you have an interest, getting extra involved in that is a good first step. There, you will have to sift through a bunch of women who are taken/not looking/out of your demographic range. If you want a concentrated bunch of women who are single, seeking, and you can filter by demographic criteria, you have to filter out the people there who aren't serious, aren't aware that you are serious (/not part of the toxic part of their experience with it), or are bots or grifters or the like.

I don't really know what to say except that me and my brother both found our wives online (admittedly ~ a dozen years ago, when the experience was probably different). And, while things are going pretty well for me now, I'd say I wasn't exactly a prime catch at the time.

Although Cracked is another great example of a lot of chaff with some kernels of wheat in it, I found this article to be pretty darn useful, and a good perspective to have on finding a mate.

[truemane]

Although Cracked is another great example of a lot of chaff with some kernels of wheat in it, I found this article to be pretty darn useful, and a good perspective to have on finding a mate.

I read that article at least once a year.

[Anymage]

So where do the women go when they've given up on finding a man worth a damn? Uh...Asking for a friend.

Petsmart. Because no man can get you quite the same way Mr. Toe Beans does.

[Aotrs Commander]

I can only usefully comment on one thing only here, in that to say anecdotally, both of my sisters met their husbands via online dating.

(I believe it was something like plenty of fish .com or something in their case, it has been a few years even since my youngest sister got married.)

Draw from that what you will.

[JNAProductions]

So, once again, thanks everyone for your support and advice. I really appreciate it.

Beyond that, it's happened again. This was off bumble, but added a woman on snapchat, talked for a few minutes, she asked to see me, I sent a pic, and then I got deleted.

Anymage probably has the best advice... Shame I'm allergic to pets. :P

[Peelee]

Does Bumble allow pictures to be publicly posted on your profile? It's never nice to have people pass you over on looks, but people totally do it. I'd totally recommend putting up multiple profile pics if you can, so that way if you get responses or first contacts that's at least one hurdle already passed and you can focus more on getting to know each other without worrying about whether they'll keep talking after sending a picture.

[JNAProductions]

Does Bumble allow pictures to be publicly posted on your profile? It's never nice to have people pass you over on looks, but people totally do it. I'd totally recommend putting up multiple profile pics if you can, so that way if you get responses or first contacts that's at least one hurdle already passed and you can focus more on getting to know each other without worrying about whether they'll keep talking after sending a picture.

Yes, and I do have that.

But even though, according to bumble, at least two women have liked me, they never show up on my search, so when someone has their snapchat in their profile bio, I'll usually add them. That's the situation I most commonly have.

[Peelee]

Yes, and I do have that.

But even though, according to bumble, at least two women have liked me, they never show up on my search, so when someone has their snapchat in their profile bio, I'll usually add them. That's the situation I most commonly have.

Oh jeez, then that just stinks. Also, why they asking for more pictures to begin with? That just sounds fishy.

[JNAProductions]

Oh jeez, then that just stinks. Also, why they asking for more pictures to begin with? That just sounds fishy.

I think there was a breakdown in communications here, Peelee.

I was on bumble (which DOES have my pictures on there), browsing through ladies. In one of the bios, there was her snapchat name.

I added her on snapchat-where I do not have a profile picture. We talked for a little, and she asked to know what I looked like.

I sent her a picture, and then she deleted me.

So, asking for a picture is perfectly reasonable-heck, I'd do the same if someone added me out of the blue from a dating site! It's the whole "Delete me without even saying goodbye" that gets to me.

[Comrade]

I'm not too familiar with Bumble or Tinder, so maybe this is a dumbass suggestion, but uh, maybe it's time to stop adding people from those sites on Snapchat. Seems to only ever result in disappointment-- and anyway, why bother using Tinder or Bumble in the first place if all you're going to say is 'just contact me via this other thing'?

[Peelee]

Oooooohhhhhhhhhh, that makes sense. In that case, two other comments arise. First, why add them on Snapchat instead of just talking through Bumble to start with? It would cut out the whole "exchange a few messages, send pictures, then get ghosted" middleman.

Second, getting ghosted sucks, but if it was only after a couple messages it's significantly less bad than after a much bigger investment in getting to know them. And we're also back to the numbers game; they're less likely to get pestered or harassed by ghosting than by politely declining.