A butt load of homebrew subclasses

[BRKNdevil]

I get bored easily so these things pop up. I'll also have a link to some other things I'm working on that I started earlier. All of these things need balancing input i believe but i dunno on how it should be done while not ruining the character idea.

Spoiler: Other things I tried to do

Show

My First Attempt to bring back Incarnum
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...arian-Subclass
Fighter Barbarian - Barbarian with a Fighter's Training
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...-Path-Homebrew

Spoiler: Generic Fighter → Fighter Martial Archetype

Show

JOKE SUBCLASS
At 3rd, 7th, 10th, 15th, and 18th put Ability Score Improvement
This is to get the 3.5 Fighter with only access to more feats

Spoiler: Way of the Drunken Fist – Monk Subclass (Zuiquan)

Show

3rd Level – Improvised Weapons. You can use improvised weapons with Prof. and they count as Monk Weapons. In addition, they have a thrown range of 10/30 and exceptionally long objects could have Reach, Others might be considered a Large Weapon and have and additional 1d4 of damage. Small objects could be considered Light Weapons and Damage could be Bludgeoning, Piercing, or Slashing. On a 1, during an attack roll, the Improvised Weapon is destroyed.

Drink Like A Demon – Max (CON. MOD.)*2. You can consume one container of alcoholic beverage as part of a Move or as a Bonus Action. For every 5GP of Alcohol consumed you gain one ??? Charge. It decreases at the rate of 1 charge per min. naturally or they can be spent in the following ways as a free action in any combination:
• Eight Immortals –
Consume 1 charge after hitting with an attack roll to make a grappling or shoving action after damage (and if allowed, from page 271 of the DMG, Climb onto Bigger Creature, Disarm, Overrun, or Shove Aside Action).
• Hollow Body, Wine Belly –
Consume 1 charge at the beginning of your turn to gain half cover as your erratic movements confuse your opponents. You can also move through an enemy’s space as you would a friendly character’s space but still cause an attack of opportunity if you leave a hostile target’s reach.
Alternatively, you can spend 1 charge as a Reaction to gain the above effects.
• Peach Wine – Consume 5 charges to heal 1d4+1 HP, you can do this multiple times a turn, healing an additional 1d4+1 HP each time.

Brewer’s Proficiency
Gain Prof. (Brewery Tool’s)

6th Level –
Unconventional Fighting—
You don’t suffer the usual disadvantages of other more conventional fighters.
You threaten while prone and don’t suffer the usual disadvantages as long as you are not restrained, incapacitated, unconscious, and petrified and can stand or lay prone as 5 feet of movement.
For one Ki Point you can make a Help, or Use an Object action as a Bonus Action.
You can use Improvised Weapons instead of Unarmed Strikes while using Flurry of Blows

Brewer’s Expertise
You now produce 10GP of Alcohol per day of work.

11th Level –
Really Unconventional Fighting—
Your Improvised Weapons are added to the list of affected by your Ki-Empowered Strikes. You may have a weapon without Reach gain Reach while attacking but only during your turn and you are now prone.

Brewer’s Excellence
You now produce 15GP of Alcohol per day of work

17th Level –
Over Saturated –
You can drink past the normal limit with a few downsides.
Every turn you have a ??? Charge over your Max you must make a CON Save of 10+Every Charge over your limit with an Advantage. If you fail this roll, your body purges the alcohol in your system by throwing up. You are Stunned for a round and your charges go back to 0. You must slur your words visibly and you make Wisdom based skill checks at a disadvantage while Over Saturated.
For as long as you are Over Saturated, you gain Resistance All except for Psychic Damage. Because not even this much alcohol can solve all your problems.

Jiǔjīng De Fāngfǎ
You now produce 20GP of Alcohol per day of work. Those who assist you and have proficiency in Brewery’s Tools add 10GP of Alcohol production.

Spoiler: BEAR WARRIOR – Barbarian Subclass

Show

BECAUSE BEARS!!!
3rd Level – At this level you can transform whenever you Rage into the form of a Black Bear, gaining its size, abilities, speeds, and 19HP in this form but not skill Prof. This form lasts until you are transformed back by losing this forms HP or when your rage would normally end.
However from here it deviates. Your Mental Stats stay the same and you choose between the higher of your physical stats or the Black Bear Stats on a stat by stat basis.
You choose between the higher of the two in regards to your Unarmored Defense in your new form or this forms Natural Armor.
Your Unarmed Strike gains Light and has the damage of (2d4) Slashing and you gain an offhand Bite Melee Weapon Attack (Light) (1d6)/ P
Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation but otherwise all class and feat base abilities can be used in this form as long as it doesn’t require opposable thumbs and a humanoid voice box.

6th Level – At this level you can transform whenever you Rage into the form of a Brown Bear, gaining its size, abilities, speeds, and 34HP in this form but not skill Prof. This form lasts until you are transformed back by losing this forms HP or when your rage would normally end.
However from here it deviates. Your Mental Stats stay the same and you choose between the higher of your physical stats or the Brown Bear Stats on a stat by stat basis.
You choose between the higher of the two in regards to your Unarmored Defense in your new form or this forms Natural Armor.
Your Unarmed Strike gains Light and has the damage of (2d6) Slashing and you gain an offhand Bite Melee Weapon Attack (Light) (1d8)/ P
Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation but otherwise all class and feat base abilities can be used in this form as long as it doesn’t require opposable thumbs and a humanoid voice box.

10th Level – At this level you can transform whenever you Rage into the form of a Polar Bear, gaining its size, abilities, speeds, and 42HP in this form but not skill Prof. This form lasts until you are transformed back by losing this forms HP or when your rage would normally end.
However from here it deviates. Your Mental Stats stay the same and you choose between the higher of your physical stats or the Polar Bear Stats on a stat by stat basis.
You choose between the higher of the two in regards to your Unarmored Defense in your new form or this forms Natural Armor.
Your Unarmed Strike gains Light and has the damage of (2d6) Slashing and you gain an offhand Bite Melee Weapon Attack (Light) (1d8)/ P
Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation but otherwise all class and feat base abilities can be used in this form as long as it doesn’t require opposable thumbs and a humanoid voice box.

14th Level – At this level you can transform whenever you Rage into the form of a OwlBear, gaining its size, abilities, speeds, and 59HP in this form but not skill Prof. This form lasts until you are transformed back by losing this forms HP or when your rage would normally end.
However from here it deviates. Your Mental Stats stay the same and you choose between the higher of your physical stats or the OwlBear Stats on a stat by stat basis.
You choose between the higher of the two in regards to your Unarmored Defense in your new form or this forms Natural Armor.
Your Unarmed Strike gains Light and has the damage of (2d8) Slashing and you gain an offhand Beak Melee Weapon Attack (Light) (1d10)/ P
Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation but otherwise all class and feat base abilities can be used in this form as long as it doesn’t require opposable thumbs and a humanoid voice box.
In all cases, if you are transformed back before your rage would normally end, your rage continues. All equipment that cannot be adapted into these forms are either absorbed by your new form or dropped to your feet (your choice). What is adaptable is dependent on your GM. The choice to transform must be taken at the time of initiating your Rage.

[BRKNdevil]

Spoiler: College of Dance – Bard Subclass

Show

3rd — 1d6 Skirmish Attack
— Beguiling Dance (Charmed)
— Unarmored Defense (CHA + DEX) +10
6th — 2d6 Skirmish Attack
— Stunning Dance
14th — 3d6 Skirmish Attack
— Exhausting Dance (Degrees of Exhaustion)
All the Dances use up 1 Bardic Inspiration, Use your Bard Spellcasting DC, have a duration of Concentrate (up to 10min.). You can also choose to gain 1 degree of Exhaustion to start another Dance if no Bardic Inspiration uses are left. They can’t be used if Restrained, etc… The saves can be auto succeeded if the target makes himself effectively Blind for the duration of the Dance. The dancer may choose those not affected by the Dance.

Beguiling Dance can be Overt or Covert. Anyone who has line of sight with the Dance makes a (Wis or Int.? Save) and if they succeed then they may act as normal. If not then are Charmed by the Dancer, but may reroll if they are attacked by the Dancer. After succeeding on a save they can’t be affected by this Dance for 24 hours.

Stunning Dance is an Overt Dance. Every turn this Dance is used, anyone who has line of sight with the Dance makes a (Wis or Int.? Save) and if they succeed then they may act as normal. On a failed Save they are Stunned for one round. The Stunned Condition ends when they are attacked.

Exhausting Dance is an Overt Dance. Every turn this Dance is used, anyone who has line of sight with the Dance makes a (CON Save) and if they succeed then they may act as normal. Every failed save gives the target 1 Level of Exhaustion. To a max of 5 Levels of Exhaustion. This Dance is illegal in most countries.

*d6 Skirmish Attack -- Add *d6 to your damage after moving 10ft or more during a turn.
Changed per Sartharina's Suggestion.

Spoiler: War Magic (Warmage) – Sorcerous Origin

Show

You threw away deepening the connection to the origin of your power and trained for years to ready yourself for battle

1st – Gain Light Armor Prof. and Medium Armor Prof.

Warmage’s Edge, You add Cha. Mod. To your damage rolls for all your cantrips with attack rolls.

6th – Expanded Spell Knowledge, Not counted towards your Max Spells Known, Tradable at each level instead of the usual set of spells. From any spell list. Used again at 14th and 18th
Reckless Spell – gain an Advantage on all Spell Attack Rolls, others have an Advantage to attack you.
Or should it be Ritual Spell access?

14th — ESK, Friendlier Fire – You can have up to Spell Level + Cha. Mod. Targets gain an Advantage to your spells and they suffer no effects with a successful save.

18th – ESK, +Something Else as a Capstone?

Ok, Per the suggestions of Sartharina, Tenmujiin, and Anubis Dread I'll shall have further clarification Here
Expanded Spell Knowledge
You may Choose one Arcane Spell from Any List to add to your Spells Known, Not counting to your Max Spells Known. It counts as a Sorcerers Spell for you. Its Spell Level can only be of the same as the Highest Level Spell you may cast as a Sorcerer with the normal Multiclass restrictions. It must be an Conjuration or Evocation Spell. Alternatively You may choose a spell up to 2 Spell Levels lower than the Highest Level Spell you may cast as a Sorcerer with the normal Multiclass Restictions from any Arcane Spell List.
That Last bit I'm basing it off the 3.5 variant class feature Ecletic Learning from the PHB2 of 3.5.

Spoiler: Scout Ranger → Ranger Archetype

Show

Reason: For that 3.5 Scout feel
3rd Level
Prof. Bonus is added to character AC VS. Opportunity Attacks while wearing light or medium armor
1d6 Skirmish Damage – Skirmish damage is added to all attacks made after the character moves 10 or more feet and is treated as sneak attack dice in regards to criticals, feats, and other such things. It can only be applied once per target.
+5 to character movement in all forms normally available

7th Level
Expertise
2d6 Skirmish Damage
+10 to character movement in all forms normally available

11th Level
Improved Hide in Plain Sight – You can move at half movement crawling against the ground, or pressed against walls in an environment while adding, and subtracting things from your camouflage as you move with the same bonuses from Hide in Plain Sight. Urban camouflage would be something like a box.
3d6 Skirmish Damage
+15 to character movement in all forms normally available

15th Level
–Evasion and Uncanny Dodge or maybe Dodge Action as a Bonus Action?
4d6 Skirmish Damage
+20 to character movement in all forms normally available

Spoiler: Blood Magic – Sorcerous Origin

Show

You gained your power not through descending from powerful blood, but by tapping into the power inherent in ALL blood. By reckless study you gained magic, not through the large amount of study like a wizard but with your raw talent and the endless amount of life force. From yourself, and those around you…

1st – Gain Blood Component. You have suffused focus and power throughout your body. Treat yourself as an Arcane Focus for your own magic.
You gain Find Familiar as a Ritual, that you may do from memory, but without taking one of your spells known slots. You may use it to gain a Homunculus with all of its abilities intact.

6th – Blood is Power. You can now also replace expensive spell components by sacrificing the vitality of yourself or those around you.
To a willing or incapacitated target(s) (including yourself if need be) use up any number of (the hit dice used to recover HP on a short rest) or in the case of an npc, up to the maximum hit dice of the creature being used. Multiply that number by your Prof. Bonus and 10GP to get the value of replacement expensive spell component. For instance a level 14 Blood Mage can sacrifice his own or others (the hit dice used to recover HP on a short rest) such as 4 from himself, 2 from his friend next to him, and the body of the unconscious man at their feet for his 4d8 hit dice to a total of 10 hit dice to be multiplied by the blood mage’s Prof. Bonus for 40 times 10GP to equal 400GP in replacement Expensive Spell Component.

14th – Staunch the Wound. You gain an Advantage on Death Saving Throws.

18th – Gain Power from Death. You can recover a number of Sorcery Points from a creature that has died within (Cha. Mod.) Rounds equal to the number of hit dice the creature had as an Action. The target must be within 5ft of you. You cannot sacrifice your homunculus for this effect. You can’t use this on a target that has been used for Blood is Power within 24hrs. You can do this once per long rest.

[BRKNdevil]

Putting here all the things i'm dumping because commentators provided enough reasons to drop them.

Spoiler: Templar → Fighter Martial Archetype

Show

Reason: Divine Fighter Opposite of the Eldritch Knight
Spell Spread is the same as the Eldritch Knight except in regards to spells known. That is the same as the Ranger.
Trying to figure either Wisdom or Charisma as Spell Casting Stat
Cleric Spell List with no School Restrictions

3rd Level
Spell Casting, Spell Slots, Spells Known, Spellcasting Ability
Spell Slot Fusion – when casting a spell you can choose to use an additional spell slot to increase its spell level by the second spell slot’s value. Max spell value is ½ character level maxing at 9th level spell
Bonus Spells Known. Elemental Weapon, Magic Weapon, Misty Step

7th Level
War Magic – Same as Eldritch Knight

10th Level
Divine Strike – Reskinned Eldritch Strike

15th Level
Divine Charge – Reskinned Arcane Charge

18th Level – Improved War Magic

A lot of people felt it was covered by clerics and paladins

Spoiler: Tank – Fighter Martial Archetype

Show

Gain Eldritch Fighter’s Spellcasting, Except its keyed off Charisma, and uses the Bard Spell list with no Restrictions. It also uses the Ranger’s Spells Known Progression.
3rd Level – Arcane Weapon Focus, You choose one weapon are proficient in after a short or long rest. You can use this weapon as an Arcane Focus and can perform Somatic components while wielding this weapon.
In addition to the spells known, you gain Compelled Duel.
7th Level – In addition to the spells known, you gain Warding Bond.
10th Level – You gain Spell Power Fusion, You can use two slots to cast a spell from one of the slots used. This increases the spell level by the sum of the spell slots used.
15th Level – Gain Arcane Recovery, except it is based on your Fighter Level.
18th Level – Gain Spell Resistance (PHB 116)

People felt it was superior to the eldritch knight. Might be because i tend to let the eldritch knight get full school access since it doesn't really help them much with evocation when it comes to melee.

Spoiler: All or Nothing Rogue Archetype

Show

3rd – Reckless Attack (DEX Version)
– Dodge as Bonus Action

9th – Improved Critical
– Remarkable Athlete

13th – Superior Critical
– ½ Prof. Bonus to Light Armor

17th – 2nd Chance – Reroll Mechanic? Reroll 1s? on sneak attack? On attack roll?

Reason – Because at level 13 you are hitting for 49 additional damage on average every 4 turns and around 24 additional damage every turn

Everyone says this was made lazily, and looking back on it, yes, yes it was.

[Tenmujiin]

Can't really comment on balance but most of these look really cool. The templar and scout seem well done and the having the warmage as a sorcerer is actually a really cool idea. The generic fighter on the other hand seems the weakest and has the same problem as the battle-master in that he will just be taking the options he didn't want earlier once his level is a bit higher and the champion works fine as a 'generic' fighter since he still gets 2-3 (can't remember which) more feats/increases than every other class.
Finally, draconic sorcerers get AC 13+dex which is better than most light armour and mage armour is also 13+dex so light armour may be a little weak.
Edit: maybe mage armour at will as per the warlock invocation?

[Tenmujiin]

Also the expanded spell knowledge seems like it may just result in non-battle spells resulting in it being less combat focused than the draconic or wild sorcerers rather than more.

[BRKNdevil]

Can't really comment on balance but most of these look really cool. The templar and scout seem well done and the having the warmage as a sorcerer is actually a really cool idea. The generic fighter on the other hand seems the weakest and has the same problem as the battle-master in that he will just be taking the options he didn't want earlier once his level is a bit higher and the champion works fine as a 'generic' fighter since he still gets 2-3 (can't remember which) more feats/increases than every other class.
Finally, draconic sorcerers get AC 13+dex which is better than most light armour and mage armour is also 13+dex so light armour may be a little weak.
Edit: maybe mage armour at will as per the warlock invocation?
Also the expanded spell knowledge seems like it may just result in non-battle spells resulting in it being less combat focused than the draconic or wild sorcerers rather than more.

That was the point of Expanded Knowledge, being battle focused doesn't mean that you have to have only spells that go boom, support spells, field control, and force Multipliers are the things that win most wars. The Generic Fighter was supposed to be a Joke Class but some reason i didn't put that in, I'll change that soon and i like your suggestion on the armor bit but as is will help curb people dipping sorcerer just to gain infinite Mage Armor.

[Sartharina]

I'm finding these to be largely lackluster. I think a large part of it is the lack of flavor to go with the mechanics, and hesitancy. Also... So much mechanics cribbing from other classes, instead of taking new mechanics to let the classes stand on their own!

The Templar seems particularly bad to me, since it doesn't really do anything that Paladins and War Clerics don't do better, and the class features don't really speak to Divine Casting (Tactical teleportation is more of an arcane magic thing). If you want to make a class, you need to have more focus than just reskinning something else that exists.

The Scout... 5e's action economy makes this subclass feel weird, since it's almost nothing but a flat damage boost for running around in circles, and 3.5's annoying Scaling Class Feature's. Instead, I think you should focus it on being a 'harrier/skirmisher'-type character - If necessary, give it a rogue's Cunning Action at some point, or a variant thereof that just allows Dash and Disengage as a bonus action. Other class features should focus on light battlefield control, and switching between targets to soften them up for heavier hitters to destroy.

The Dancer's "Extra Mile" flat-out breaks the math of the game in a bad way. The DC of the dance should be 8+CHA+Proficiency - no more, no less. And why do they get Sneak Attack? I'm also not sure what the class is trying to do.

The "Tank" fighter option has insufficient Reactive Armor, Autocannon, and Crushing Treads.

And... the Battle Sorcerer doesn't have any real incentive to focus on blast-related spells. I'd suggest replacing Expanded Knowledge on new metamagics that allow him to get more bang for his buck out of casting direct damage spells, and having a wide variety of said spells. Also - that "From any spell list" is broken, given how broad the Sorcerer's spell list already is. It's already considered broken on the Bard's list of powers.

[BRKNdevil]

[QUOTE=Sartharina;18218799]I'm finding these to be largely lackluster. I think a large part of it is the lack of flavor to go with the mechanics, and hesitancy. Also... So much mechanics cribbing from other classes, instead of taking new mechanics to let the classes stand on their own!

The Templar seems particularly bad to me, since it doesn't really do anything that Paladins and War Clerics don't do better, and the class features don't really speak to Divine Casting (Tactical teleportation is more of an arcane magic thing). If you want to make a class, you need to have more focus than just reskinning something else that exists.

But sometimes players don't want to be oathbound or bound to some ideal of some god or existential existence. At the same time, i didn't want to make something way overpowered like the things i've seen people tried to do in order to "fix" eldritch knight.

The Scout... 5e's action economy makes this subclass feel weird, since it's almost nothing but a flat damage boost for running around in circles, and 3.5's annoying Scaling Class Feature's. Instead, I think you should focus it on being a 'harrier/skirmisher'-type character - If necessary, give it a rogue's Cunning Action at some point, or a variant thereof that just allows Dash and Disengage as a bonus action. Other class features should focus on light battlefield control, and switching between targets to soften them up for heavier hitters to destroy.

I actually did this before people had started posting their personal experiences with ranger because, honestly the way ranger looks in the books seems woefully weak even though it apparently plays quite well. As for the upgraded Hide in Plain Sight... that was woefully weak and I think that is both flavorful and useful

The Dancer's "Extra Mile" flat-out breaks the math of the game in a bad way. The DC of the dance should be 8+CHA+Proficiency - no more, no less. And why do they get Sneak Attack? I'm also not sure what the class is trying to do.

I mainly did the Extra Mile to make a Dancer having Perform have a point. As for the Sneak Attack, it so that it doesn't stay stuck as a pure support class and is able to dance among the ranks of the stunned and baffled enemies and strike them.

The "Tank" fighter option has insufficient Reactive Armor, Autocannon, and Crushing Treads.

You really like some op stuff don't you? I was more thinking in the tradition draws enemy attacks kind of way

And... the Battle Sorcerer doesn't have any real incentive to focus on blast-related spells. I'd suggest replacing Expanded Knowledge on new metamagics that allow him to get more bang for his buck out of casting direct damage spells, and having a wide variety of said spells. Also - that "From any spell list" is broken, given how broad the Sorcerer's spell list already is. It's already considered broken on the Bard's list of powers.

I don't understand why people think Battle is all about blasting? Battle is about field control, minimizing the amount of force an enemy can put down while maximizing your own. As for the Brokenness of Expanded Spell Knowledge, thats due to some really odd ideas coming from players as to what is RAW while any DM would be like "Hahahahahahaha... Oh god your killing me... No." or just plans on doing something exceptionally cruel to you if you succeed.

[Sartharina]

But sometimes players don't want to be oathbound or bound to some ideal of some god or existential existence. At the same time, i didn't want to make something way overpowered like the things i've seen people tried to do in order to "fix" eldritch knight.

If they don't want to be bound to an ideal or god, they shouldn't be a divine caster.

I mainly did the Extra Mile to make a Dancer having Perform have a point. As for the Sneak Attack, it so that it doesn't stay stuck as a pure support class and is able to dance among the ranks of the stunned and baffled enemies and strike them.

There's always a point to having Perform - it lets them be a performer. And I don't think Sneak Attack's the way to go... if anything, you might want to move a more "Skirmish"-type ability to this. It makes sense for a Dancer to have a damage boost for just running in circles around someone. Of course, when I think of a Dervish dancer, I think "Lots of weak attacks", but I'm not sure how you'd work that into 5e.

You really like some op stuff don't you? I was more thinking in the tradition draws enemy attacks kind of way

I like my tanks to be Tanks of the Abrams variety.

I don't understand why people think Battle is all about blasting? Battle is about field control, minimizing the amount of force an enemy can put down while maximizing your own. As for the Brokenness of Expanded Spell Knowledge, thats due to some really odd ideas coming from players as to what is RAW while any DM would be like "Hahahahahahaha... Oh god your killing me... No." or just plans on doing something exceptionally cruel to you if you succeed.

I don't think it's needed. As it is, you have the "Battle Sorcerer" be strongly incentivised to NOT invest in Battle spells, but grab awesome Utility spells from other class lists (Especially from Ranger+Paladin class lists).

[Shadow]

In 3e I absolutely loved the flavor of the Daggerspell Mage. But with the combination of rogue BaB, wizard BaB, and two weapon fighting.... he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, so the PrC was useless.
Under 5e, BaB doesn't exist. So I homebrewed a Daggerspell Mage subclass for rogue, and it turned out to be awesome.

Spoiler: Daggerspell Mage - Rogue subclass

Show

1d6 sneak attack at every level divisible by four (1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, to max 6d6 at 20th)
half caster spell progression (instead of one third like the arcane trickster)
wizard's spellbook, prepared spells half level + Int mod
two cantrips at 2nd level, a third at 8th level, and a fourth at 14th level
2nd level: four 1st level spells in spellbook, add one spell each level gained afterward

Spoiler: level 3: Daggercast

Show

A daggerspell mage can use his action to cast and deliver any single target spell he has prepared as a melee dagger attack instead of a spell attack, adding the spell effect to the dagger's damage. The daggerspell mage can also cast spells with material and somatic components while holding a dagger in each hand. If a daggerspell mage holds anything other than a dagger, then one hand must be free to cast a spell with material or somatic components.

Note: The potential damage of this is slightly higher than a straight rogue's sneak attack, but the opportunity cost of using this ability is potentially high, and rises with levels, because you are using your action to cast a spell rather than to attack, so you risk losing all of your sneak attack damage and a spell slot if you miss as you cannot use your bonus action to try again with the second dagger.

Spoiler: Level 3: Invocation of the Knife

Show

Daggerspell mages develop a strong mystical connection between thier arcane spellcasting and the daggers they wield. Whenever a daggerspell mage casts an arcane spell that deals energy damage, he can turn half of the damage into magic slashing damage rather than energy damage.

Spoiler: level 9: Arcane Infusion

Show

A daggerspell mage can infuse arcane spell power into his daggers, temporarily enabling them to deal extra energy damage. As a bonus action, the daggerspell mage can choose to give up a spell slot, and chooses an energy type (acid, fire, cold, lightning). The daggerspell mage's daggers each then deal an extra 2 points of damage of the chosen energy type for each level of the spell slot expended. This ability has a duration of Concentration, up to one minute.

Note: While Arcane Infusion is in effect, the daggerspell mage's damage is approximately equivalent to a regular rogue's. But in order to do so, he needs to spend his highest level spell slot, maintain concentration, and hit with both attacks. Combined with Daggercast, this allows better damage output and nova, but doing so burns through his limited (half caster) spell slots very quickly.
Going without Arcane Infusion (because concentration on a different spell is in effect, for example) leaves the daggerspell mage's damage output significantly lower than a regular rogue's unless he wants to burn through his slots via Daggercast (and risk the possible opportuniy costs associated, as described above).
Also note that a daggerspell mage is punished more than a regular two weapon fighting rogue if his main hand misses, because the damage from Arcane Infusion (which makes his overall damage equivalent) is split between both daggers.

Spoiler: level 14: Arcane Throw

Show

A daggerspell mage can imbue arcane spell power into his thrown daggers. The daggerspell mage can use his action to cast and deliver any single target spell he has prepared with a thrown dagger. If the dagger misses its intended target, the dagger returns to the mage at the start of his next turn (as if it had the returning quality), and retains the spell if the daggerspell mage chooses to maintain concentration on it (even if the spell otherwise has no concentration requirement) in order to throw it again on the following round.

Note: This ability removes the possible opportunity cost of losing the spell slot the way that Daggercast could (but only if you can concentrate on it), while the possibility of missing (and therebye doing zero damage that round) remains.

Spoiler: level 17: Daggerspell Flurry

Show

A daggerspell mage can blend spellcasting with a flurry of dagger attacks. When a daggerspell mage uses his action to attack, he can use a bonus action to make a secondary attack with his other dagger and cast any spell he has prepared with a normal casting time of one action or less. A daggerspell mage can use this feature a number of times equal to his intelligence modifier, and all uses are regained after a long rest.

And that's for your nova a few times per day.

I think it's balanced fairly well, all in all. What do you guys think?

Spoiler: Comments and discussion so far

Show

Subclasses don't change the Character's Base Progression so i find the input of Sneak attack progression odd.

The rogue was the perfect chassis for this, but only if the SA was adjusted. With full sneak attack progression it would be too powerful.
This was the easiest way to fix that (but more on this in a moment). Homebrew specifically means that it isn't Core.

3rd, if you plan on making it a half caster, go with the same progression as the paladin and ranger and drop the cantrips in order to keep it more in line with the rest of 5e.

The other two arcane-less-than-full-casters (AT and EK) have cantrips, so I don't see the issue.
With full sneak attack and/or one third caster I couldn't find a way to balance the damage potential properly.
With a combination of slightly altered sneak attack and half caster, the damage potential became balanced.
He has full wizard spellbook and access to all schools rather than only a few schools to choose from because the opportunity cost and potential gimped damage associated with his mechanics left him strictly inferior to arcane trickster. The answer was to open up more spell choices and offer more utility. But that extra utility also adds into the opportunity cost of the class by using resources needed to keep damage up, or concentration needed to keep damage up, or both.

4th, Arcane infusion seems somewhat worse than Magic weapon, or Elemental Weapon, dunno about that

Magic weapon and elemental weapon both only apply to a single weapon, while arcane infusion applies to both of the daggerspell mage's daggers. So arcane infusion doesn't get the attack bonus that they offer (but by 9th level you probably have a magic dagger or two to begin with), and gets slightly higher damage potential to compensate, but only if you hit with both daggers.

[BRKNdevil]

Made some changes to the Dancer and the Warmage, Still trying to decide what to do with the scout and would like more than one person's input. The things changed are credited to the ones who suggested them and i make no plans to have someone turn into a modern tank.
Shadow, I find it amusing that you have decided to post your character here and thus i have a few suggestions.

First, put the entire thing in a spoiler drop down so that people can focus on one thing at a time if you plan on keeping it here.

Second, Subclasses don't change the Character's Base Progression so i find the input of Sneak attack progression odd.

3rd, if you plan on making it a half caster, go with the same progression as the paladin and ranger and drop the cantrips in order to keep it more in line with the rest of 5e.

4th, Arcane infusion seems somewhat worse than Magic weapon, or Elemental Weapon, dunno about that

[Shadow]

Shadow, I find it amusing that you have decided to post your character here and thus i have a few suggestions.

Sorry. I didn't realize that "A butt load of homebrew subclasses" was limited to your own, and I didn't feel the need to start a new thread.

First, put the entire thing in a spoiler drop down so that people can focus on one thing at a time if you plan on keeping it here.

Yeah, fine.

Second, Subclasses don't change the Character's Base Progression so i find the input of Sneak attack progression odd.

The rogue was the perfect chassis for this, but only if the SA was adjusted. With full sneak attack progression it would be too powerful.
This was the easiest way to fix that (but more on this in a moment). Homebrew specifically means that it isn't Core.

3rd, if you plan on making it a half caster, go with the same progression as the paladin and ranger and drop the cantrips in order to keep it more in line with the rest of 5e.

The other two arcane-less-than-full-casters (AT and EK) have cantrips, so I don't see the issue.
With full sneak attack and/or one third caster I couldn't find a way to balance the damage potential properly.
With a combination of slightly altered sneak attack and half caster, the damage potential became balanced.

And before you or someone else asks, he has full wizard spellbook and access to all schools rather than only a few schools to choose from because the opportunity cost and potential gimped damage associated with his mechanics left him strictly inferior to arcane trickster. The answer was to open up more spell choices and offer more utility. But that extra utility also adds into the opportunity cost of the class by using resources needed to keep damage up, or concentration needed to keep damage up, or both.

4th, Arcane infusion seems somewhat worse than Magic weapon, or Elemental Weapon, dunno about that

Magic weapon and elemental weapon both only apply to a single weapon, while arcane infusion applies to both of the daggerspell mage's daggers. So arcane infusion doesn't get the attack bonus that they offer (but by 9th level you probably have a magic dagger or two to begin with), and gets slightly higher damage potential to compensate, but only if you hit with both daggers.

[BRKNdevil]

Sorry. I didn't realize that "A butt load of homebrew subclasses" was limited to your own, and I didn't feel the need to start a new thread.

The rogue was the perfect chassis for this, but only if the SA was adjusted. With full sneak attack progression it would be too powerful.
This was the easiest way to fix that (but more on this in a moment). Homebrew specifically means that it isn't Core.

The other two arcane-less-than-full-casters (AT and EK) have cantrips, so I don't see the issue.
With full sneak attack and/or one third caster I couldn't find a way to balance the damage potential properly.
With a combination of slightly altered sneak attack and half caster, the damage potential became balanced.

And before you or someone else asks, he has full wizard spellbook and access to all schools rather than only a few schools to choose from because the opportunity cost and potential gimped damage associated with his mechanics left him strictly inferior to arcane trickster. The answer was to open up more spell choices and offer more utility. But that extra utility also adds into the opportunity cost of the class by using resources needed to keep damage up, or concentration needed to keep damage up, or both.

1. It isn't, its just that most people usually start their own thread and thus was out of the ordinary.
2. It just seems like you want to make a whole new chassis with some Rogue elements with the changed sneak attack progression and it is also harder to integrate with altered feature progression. Thus i have been restricting it to just when subclass stuff would normally be gained.
3. I think the reason they have cantrips is BECAUSE they are 1/3 casters. I think they balanced it out as 1/2 casters not really needing cantrips to go with everything else. Also you can't deliver a Sneak attack with a cantrip.
4. I understand and i find it odd that they restricted the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster to specific schools and i wonder what the playtests where like with those classes.

On another thing, Kind of sad no one has commented on Bear Warrior or Drunken Fighter. Also I'm thinking of having a better effect with the drunken fighter where he can produce 10gp of alcohol at 6th, 15 at the next, and 20 at 17th, in order to pay for his addiction. Either that or 10/20/40, because you will probably go through alcohol really fast.

[BRKNdevil]

Added Blood Mage Sorcerous Origin

[BRKNdevil]

Altered Tank after reevaluation. It rips a lot of features that focus it on Tanking, by combining Bard spell list, Compelled duel, and Warding Bond to tank for at least one friend.

[Abithrios]

RE: Bear Warrior
What do you mean by "Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation"?

Are you referring to improvements from leveling, racial improvements, some rage-related feature that I would have to actually read the barbarian class to know about?

If it is either of the first two, it feels a bit out of place in 5e because of the simplified mechanics--the same reason there is no longer separate touch and flat-footed AC.

[BRKNdevil]

RE: Bear Warrior
What do you mean by "Ability Improvements are not carried over into the transformation"?

Are you referring to improvements from leveling, racial improvements, some rage-related feature that I would have to actually read the barbarian class to know about?

If it is either of the first two, it feels a bit out of place in 5e because of the simplified mechanics--the same reason there is no longer separate touch and flat-footed AC.

I was refering to both the Ability Score Improvements from leveling from the class and racial improvements because there have been people arguing that when people wildshape as a druid that because its a class feature. That they should be able to carry over the Improvements from the Ability Score Improvements. I Have it so that you only take the best of the stats and not also spend the time putting additional points from your ability score improvements to your modified stats. And yes their are plenty of threads that argue this point. Though perhaps i can clarify the wording because, while i mean your character has 18 points in strength due to putting 2 points into strength at level 4, he can now choose between the 15 from being a black bear or his 18 strength from just being him while in his new form. Not, that the bear now has 2 additional points in strength in addition to the 15 it gets from being a black bear for a total of 17 just because he is a level 4 barbarian.

[Anubis Dread]

Well there's certainly a lot here. Let's work through it one by one.

Templar
This has been mentioned before, so I'll keep it brief - between Cleric and Paladin this niche already exists to the extent that this sub-class should not exist.

Generic Fighter
This is actually pretty cool in a way. It certainly isn't worth any more space than you gave it, but I could see it being in a side bar in a third party splat book or something of the like.

All or Nothing Rogue
First off, the name is absolutely awful. Secondly, this does not feel like a Rogue subclass. It doesn't interact with Sneak Attack or Cunning Action directly, Remarkable Athlete is actually worst on a Rogue than a Fighter due to their higher number of proficiencies and the fact Thief does it better, and all in all it's a bit of a mess.

Tank
Another bad name. The mechanics don't fit it either - it's basically an empowered version of an already existing fighter subclass. An already existing fighter subclass that's considered to be one of if not the strongest of the bunch. This does not seem fair.

(Way of the) Drunken Fighter
Naming conventions, use them. This sub-class is clearly coming from the right place and has some potential. Drink Like a Demon is unfortunately broken since you can just drink alcohol all day to recover ki, and with that function the other functions are redundant since if you can turn alcohol into ki they might as well all be ki abilities.

The other features however are all fairly solid. Having a sidebar with example effects of wielding common improvised weapons might have been a better course of action than trying to expand on everything in the Improvides Weapons ability text though.

Bear Warrior
This is a tough nut to crack. Polymorphing and shifting is weaker than it used to be, so trying to write up a subclass based on a limited form of Wild Shape on something already stronger than a bear is pretty difficult.

Unfortunately this doesn't succeed. The shift usually doesn't do anything since you're picking between the higher of the two stats and your normal form will usually have the higher. The natural weapons are weaker than your normal weapon attacks. And rather than having one ability scale and having some extra abilities, you have each ability be the same one just scaling up. That's a pretty big no no for class design.

(College of) Dance(r)
This is actually pretty good. It was a unique effect that scales naturally, it has more than just dances going for it due to Skirmish, and it has a cute little flavor ability in the form of the self-exhaust even if it will never be used in play. My only complain is that expending bardic dice without rolling them usually isn't done. My personal solution would be to have half the result of the roll rounding up added to the DC of the dances, but that's a minor nit pick. This is good work.

Warmage (War Magic)
Those 3rd level proficiencies are way too much, and adding Cha mod to ALL spell damage is far more potent than any other sorcerer bloodline. I know Wild Magic is weaker than Dragon Magic, but but Warmage Edge is still stronger than their CAPSTONE ability. Expanded Spell Knowledge gets rid of the one weakness sorcerers truly have (their limited spells) and is actually BETTER here than for the Bard where it's poached from as you can Meta Magic Cleric or Druid spells. I am not sure what the other features are exactly as they're hard to read, but I'm guessing it does not get better.

Sorcerer bloodlines are difficult. The sorcerer class is so strong already that their subclasses are arguably the weakest in the game. It doesn't seem like you understood this innate trade off when you made this subclass.

Scout
In direct contrast to the sorcerer, the ranger has the STRONGEST subclasses in the game due to their base class being a little bit lacking. This class takes advantage of that, and all in all it's a good class. The Skirmish damage might be a bit high, but the general idea is solid - increased speed, damage and utility in exchange for flash. Probably needs some tuning, but it's a good start.

Blood Mag(e)ic
First level is nice and flavorful, though just saying 'you can cast Find Familiar as a ritual, and can choose a Homunculus instead of the usual options' would have sufficed. It also is of the appropriate power level for a sorcerer subclass. Blood is Power makes me think this needs a disclaimer as being a villanous class option, but is a nice flavor ability that reads a lot more powerful than it is, which is ideal. Same goes for Staunch the Wound. Unfortunately the Capstone is INSANE. WAY too powerful compared to the other sorcerer subclasses. Knock it down to once per day period rather than once per day per creature and it's still a bit much, but it's manageable.

All in all this is probably the best subclass of the lot. It clearly got more attention than the others flavor wise, and aside from the capstone is probably fit for play.

----

A lot of these subclasses are chaff that just dredges up things from other classes or is way too powerful, but there are a few gems in there. The Dancer, Scout, and Bloodmage in particular deserve an honorable mention and with some polishing could be used almost as is for proper play.

[BRKNdevil]

Made a lot of changes as suggested
the bear warrior was left alone because i don't know how to change the build without going outside the bounds of the game. Flat bonuses aren't really used anymore and the 20 max on stats makes the stat bonuses within reason for game design.

Dunno what to do with the war magic sorcerous origin. I guess it could be limited to using the current resource of known spells, but the whole getting stuff outside of the warmage line was a major thing for it being playable.
Dunno what are your suggestions.

[Amnoriath]

Dunno what to do with the war magic sorcerous origin. I guess it could be limited to using the current resource of known spells, but the whole getting stuff outside of the warmage line was a major thing for it being playable.
Dunno what are your suggestions.

Personally, I think he is overreacting. The Sorcerer only ends up with 15 spells and 6 cantrips known. A Warlock gets 19 spells and 4 cantrips known at base while having a far more eclectic list due to pacts not including the tome invocation(which gives 2 cantrips from any list on top of ritual spells from any list). Additionally invocations round it out to have better consistent damage output and utility. If anything it angers me that the Sorcerer didn't get the same base amount known as a Bard.
Though the subclass could use some fine tuning. In order to give some interest I would include some kind of innate war knowledge and a status effect to know what is going on with others. An additional metamagic could be easily stuck in as many of them do fit. This also could look into more of the lore around 5e's universe as the theme is Origin and see if you can draw some other things.

[BRKNdevil]

Drawing a blank on what to add to the subclasses without it being overpowering or way to situational. Also I noticed i left the recharge ki mechanic, and i'm finding that 5gp a charge, seems like it would be either too expensive, or that it balances out the charge mechanic for ki usage.

[Anubis Dread]

Reading the War Magic subclass again the concerning thing is the shield and armor proficiency more than anything else. Plus it still doesn't have a capstone, but if you wanted to fix the existing in as few steps as possible I'd:
-Get rid of shield proficiency
-Up the armor proficiency to medium
-Limit Expanded Spell Knowledge to spells of the Evocation and Conjuration school (like the classic Warmage, but slightly more comprehensive because.... it's like the classic warmage)

May have slightly been over-reacting, but it's honestly pretty close to being workable with those few changes and a capstone. Hell Expanded Spell Knowledge might be potent enough that you don't even need a proper capstone aside from some kind of fluff ability.

[BRKNdevil]

Reading the War Magic subclass again the concerning thing is the shield and armor proficiency more than anything else. Plus it still doesn't have a capstone, but if you wanted to fix the existing in as few steps as possible I'd:
-Get rid of shield proficiency
-Up the armor proficiency to medium
-Limit Expanded Spell Knowledge to spells of the Evocation and Conjuration school (like the classic Warmage, but slightly more comprehensive because.... it's like the classic warmage)

May have slightly been over-reacting, but it's honestly pretty close to being workable with those few changes and a capstone. Hell Expanded Spell Knowledge might be potent enough that you don't even need a proper capstone aside from some kind of fluff ability.

I like all those ideas so *yoink*, will probably make the edits in the future though due to hw, As for fluffy abilities, i've been trying to figure those out and i'm drawing blanks.

[Argothair]

The Scout... 5e's action economy makes this subclass feel weird, since it's almost nothing but a flat damage boost for running around in circles, and 3.5's annoying Scaling Class Feature's. Instead, I think you should focus it on being a 'harrier/skirmisher'-type character - If necessary, give it a rogue's Cunning Action at some point, or a variant thereof that just allows Dash and Disengage as a bonus action. Other class features should focus on light battlefield control, and switching between targets to soften them up for heavier hitters to destroy.

Piggybacking of of Sartharina's point, I think the Scout should get incentives to try to hit multiple targets each round, or at least to engage lightly and then disengage. Maybe instead of gaining 1d6 Skirmishing damage with each subclass level, the Scout could gain 1d4 Skirmishing damage the first time it strikes each new target in a given round? This would help to further differentiate the Scout Ranger from the Rogue -- the Rogue tries to make one stealthy attack against one big target each round, whereas the Scout tries to make multiple quick attacks against many small targets each round.

[BRKNdevil]

Ok, added one line to skirmish, so now it can only be applied once per target, and changed up way of the drunken fist by adding proficiency in brewery tools as well as changing up drink like a demon.

[Ghost Dragon]

Sorry. I didn't realize that "A butt load of homebrew subclasses" was limited to your own, and I didn't feel the need to start a new thread.


Yeah, fine.


The rogue was the perfect chassis for this, but only if the SA was adjusted. With full sneak attack progression it would be too powerful.
This was the easiest way to fix that (but more on this in a moment). Homebrew specifically means that it isn't Core.


The other two arcane-less-than-full-casters (AT and EK) have cantrips, so I don't see the issue.
With full sneak attack and/or one third caster I couldn't find a way to balance the damage potential properly.
With a combination of slightly altered sneak attack and half caster, the damage potential became balanced.

And before you or someone else asks, he has full wizard spellbook and access to all schools rather than only a few schools to choose from because the opportunity cost and potential gimped damage associated with his mechanics left him strictly inferior to arcane trickster. The answer was to open up more spell choices and offer more utility. But that extra utility also adds into the opportunity cost of the class by using resources needed to keep damage up, or concentration needed to keep damage up, or both.


Magic weapon and elemental weapon both only apply to a single weapon, while arcane infusion applies to both of the daggerspell mage's daggers. So arcane infusion doesn't get the attack bonus that they offer (but by 9th level you probably have a magic dagger or two to begin with), and gets slightly higher damage potential to compensate, but only if you hit with both daggers.

Hey Shadow. I also love the idea of the daggerspell mage, but I agree with BRKNdevil that if you are going to mess with sneak attack progression, and give half caster progression (as in pally or ranger) and not 1/3 progression (same as arcane trickster) then you might be better off making a whole new 5e class rather than a rogue subclass. If I'm looking at a homebrew subclass I want it to not mess with the core progression of the class as no sub class in the PH does that, just for ease of using the homebrew class in my own games. That being said I think your ideas are great for the daggerspell mage, just a little too non-subclassy lol. If you are interested, here is a version I put together for a Daggerspell mage subclass without messing with the standard rogue progression. Have a gander and see what you think.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...9#post18771369

[Ghost Dragon]

Whoops, just realised shadow is banned. Hmm, well if anyone else wants to take a look at the Daggerspell mage rogue subclass above feel free.

[RaynorReynolds]

Added Blood Mage Sorcerous Origin

This is one of my favorite sub classes. Definitely saved it for reference in the future.