Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

[-D-]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but you're really selling Tite Kubo short here. His characters actually have somewhat unique personalities and are visually interesting instead of cheap canned references. Most of the "things" we get from Erfworld barely qualify as characters at all.

Someone defending Tite Kubo I'd never thought I'd see that day

Here is the fun part. I agree. Tite for all his faults had 2D characters. Erfworld characters are 1D. They are one-dimensional references, and I get the feeling Rob doesn't know what to do with them. I mean after the whole Bunny business, I felt it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

[deuterio12]

Someone defending Tite Kubo I'd never thought I'd see that day

Here is the fun part. I agree. Tite for all his faults had 2D characters. Erfworld characters are 1D. They are one-dimensional references, and I get the feeling Rob doesn't know what to do with them. I mean after the whole Bunny business, I felt it's the straw that broke the camel's back.

He doesn't even know what to do anymore with his 3D characters that he spent multiple books developing and are now stuck in limbo just when it seemed like we would finally see some big action again. With Stanley, Hamster, Wanda, Ansom, Sizemore, Charlie, Maggie and heck even Jillian, one would expect the story to write itself,

[Willie the Duck]

He doesn't even know what to do anymore with his 3D characters that he spent multiple books developing and are now stuck in limbo just when it seemed like we would finally see some big action again. With Stanley, Hamster, Wanda, Ansom, Sizemore, Charlie, Maggie and heck even Jillian, one would expect the story to write itself,

Well, frankly, it did. We already have that story, it was book 1. Wanda-Jillian-Ansom in particular already wrapped up the truly interesting things about the three of them separately and as a love triangle. It was kina fun to see Wanda's backstory with her brother and Ansom's push-pull relationship with his father and brothers, but honestly, they all peaked in book one, had a slight 'heh, that's interesting' book 2 presence, and now just kind of exist. Hamster is still an interesting figure with respect to attempting victory, since his thing is 'guy who did this as a game now has to do this for real.' His outside interesting arcs (stranger in a strange land, am I being swayed by magic to have more bloodlust?) are complete and he hasn't really picked up any new interesting ones outside the overall 'move his side to victory' arc. Charlie, most of all, worked best as a disembodied puppetmaster with unclear motivation other than keeping the gameplay going (with himself pulling as many strings as he can), and has only diminished as more about him has been revealed.

I think we're in a situation like Ghostbusters (1, 2, and the never-made 3; not the 2016 new-cast reboot) -- a really good initial product, a second one that was... acceptable (opinions might vary on which of these had a better second product, but neither were Blues Brother 2000-level bad). Now we have a long stretch where the creators are spinning their wheels. Some side products in both cases (toyline and cartoon for GB, these side stories for EW). There's still interest in the product, and people want them to revisit the well, yet there really isn't another good story there to tell.

[Welf]

Now we have a long stretch where the creators are spinning their wheels.

The creator. Jamie left the project after book 1.In hindsight I understand that was the right move for him as artist.

[HorizonWalker]

At the time of posting, May 12th 2019, it has been 7 months and 3 days since Erfworld has posted a proper page that wasn't epilogue or prologue. The prologue alone has lasted 6 months and 3 days, and ran for 17 parts.

I don't know how or when Rob managed to lose the ability to get to the booping point, but I wish he'd get it back at some point.

[deuterio12]

It's now also been over one month since there was even any epilogue/prologue stuff.

Remember when Rob said he totally had a bunch of backup comics for an emergency? Yeah.

At this point I think it's pretty clear he simply has no idea where to go from the complete mess at the end of book 4. He tried to procrastinate with all that fancy epilogue/prologue stuff but after half a year even that's running dry.

[PhantomFox]

Have we hit the event horizon of the comic's death spiral?

[Anteros]

Have we hit the event horizon of the comic's death spiral?

It seems like the people over on the main site forums still mostly enjoy it. Probably because they don't allow criticism and ban people, but still.

I do think interest in the comic is dwindling, especially on this forum. It'll probably still exist for quite some time though.

[cervidal]

At this point I think it's pretty clear he simply has no idea where to go from the complete mess at the end of book 4. He tried to procrastinate with all that fancy epilogue/prologue stuff but after half a year even that's running dry.

He told his cabal (toolbox/financial feeders) behind the scenes that he has private, super secret stuff keeping him from doing the comic. I'm guessing it's something to do with his wife and ongoing health issues.

It's not surprising at all - he hasn't disclosed numbers, but he did ask for those rain or shine pledges, and they're probably enough to tide him over in the meanwhile.

[DigoDragon]

He told his cabal (toolbox/financial feeders) behind the scenes that he has private, super secret stuff keeping him from doing the comic. I'm guessing it's something to do with his wife and ongoing health issues.

Personal experience taught me that having a loved one's health deteriorate will eat up all your time and finances. Hopefully Rob will make a news post soon to let everyone in the loop. If he can't update due to his wife's health there's no shame in stating so and devoting the time to his wife.

[halfeye]

Have we hit the event horizon of the comic's death spiral?

I dunno. I've not recognised the singularity yet, but I'm new to watching comics die without a new one in the offing.

[-D-]

I dunno. I've not recognised the singularity yet, but I'm new to watching comics die without a new one in the offing.

The what now? This comic is just dying a slow death. The supporter count is just going down and down.

What is exactly does "a new one in the offing" mean? Lots of comic just die out of inactivity.

Personal experience taught me that having a loved one's health deteriorate will eat up all your time and finances. Hopefully Rob will make a news post soon to let everyone in the loop. If he can't update due to his wife's health there's no shame in stating so and devoting the time to his wife.

Rob is kinda in the double bind. Does he A) Spend time on curing cancer and neglect comic, which reduces his money for treatment or does he B) Spend time on comic, but waste what could be possibly his last moments with Linda. It's a difficult choice.

[Anteros]

Rob is kinda in the double bind. Does he A) Spend time on curing cancer and neglect comic, which reduces his money for treatment or does he B) Spend time on comic, but waste what could be possibly his last moments with Linda. It's a difficult choice.

Sadly this is something that virtually every single person who ever lived has to deal with at some point. Unless you're lucky enough to die before any of your loved ones.

I'm not unsympathetic, but I work in healthcare and literally see dozens of people in the same situation every week. People still have to work even when their family gets sick. Even with all of the charitable resources we use to help people, handouts will only take you so far. I could care less about the comic, and haven't even checked for updates for months, but if they need money for treatment he needs to step up and do something to get it.

As far as I know, he hasn't said anything about that being the case though, has he? It seems like they're ok financially. Unless he's said something in the last 6 months or so since I stopped reading.

[Willie the Duck]

Rob is kinda in the double bind. Does he A) Spend time on curing cancer and neglect comic, which reduces his money for treatment or does he B) Spend time on comic, but waste what could be possibly his last moments with Linda. It's a difficult choice.

Life events and the creative endeavors field in general are something of a double bind. If you're creating art and trying to make a following and everything is keyed off continued audience excitement, if something happens that takes you away from it, it doesn't matter how good the excuse is, if you take time off, there are people who won't be there when you get back. Makes any complaints I have about my steadfast, corporate job disappear real quick when I think about it.

[deuterio12]

Sadly this is something that virtually every single person who ever lived has to deal with at some point. Unless you're lucky enough to die before any of your loved ones.

I'm not unsympathetic, but I work in healthcare and literally see dozens of people in the same situation every week. People still have to work even when their family gets sick. Even with all of the charitable resources we use to help people, handouts will only take you so far. I could care less about the comic, and haven't even checked for updates for months, but if they need money for treatment he needs to step up and do something to get it.

Quite true. Managing health and work is indeed something everybody has to deal with.

As far as I know, he hasn't said anything about that being the case though, has he? It seems like they're ok financially. Unless he's said something in the last 6 months or so since I stopped reading.

Yeah, probably the simplest answer is that Rob managed to gather a loyal following that throw him money regularly no matter what and so, well, not a lot of incentive for him to do his job if he gets paid either way.

[halfeye]

The what now?

Someone wrote about the event horizon of the comics death spiral, an event horizon is part of a black hole, the singularity is another part of a black hole. It seemed like a fun idea at the time.

What is exactly does "a new one in the offing" mean?

"A new one in the offing" means that there is a potential new item which we have been told about.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/in+the+offing

In the case of comics I was refering to a new comic which we have been advised will replace one which will be folded. Menage a three and Dangerously Chloe folded and Pixie Trix Comix started up on the same url, Leftover Soup folded, and Forward started up, on a different url, both this year, in both cases we knew about the new one before the old one ended.

[Rockphed]

I think "ending a comic purposefully" is even different from "comic dying due to neglect". I don't think I have ever watched a comic die the way Erfworld seems to be exiting the world, but I have come across a couple dead comics of the same sort. Wait, no. Real Life died the death the Erfworld is dying. Then it came back to life after 5 years. Otherwise, I have seen story ended comics (A Miracle of Science comes to mind) and dead of neglect (Elf Only Inn, Dumnestor's Heros).

[tomaO2]

A Miracle of Science is a great read. Loved the take on the mad scientist.

On another note, comics that don't update much are not that rare. OOTS has gone through many dry spells, as has Megatokyo. Gone with the Blastwave is my personal gold standard for infrequent updates. Last update was... December 18th, only around 6 months ago, and for his efforts, the guy gets almost a thousand bucks every month on patreon. https://www.patreon.com/blastwave

You wanna talk about throwing your money away? How the hell does he still get donations? He's got a total of 77 pages after... 8 years?

Nonono. I know it's been longer than that. I started reading this comic before Erfworld even existed. *googles* The wiki was created in 2005, making it closer to 14 years. That sounds closer. I think the comic is older than that though. This guy seriously could not give a **** about updating, but still gets a thousand bucks every month. Guy is perfectly fine saying "give me money, for doing nothing". I'd be mad at him for being so terrible at it, but I have to admire his honesty, and his commitment to deliver exactly what he promises. I mean, he may be the worst updater in the world but he DOES still update. It's not an abandoned comic.

Anyway, announcement update. https://erfworld.com/blog/view/72857...-have-a-legion
Another bad thing has happened. No, he's not telling us what it is. Although he WILL tell us that he's got a new kickstarter available as a way to give him more money. He said there is a longer explanation for the toolbox though, so maybe a member can tell us if he gives more detail in private and if you agree that the situation is as bad as he said. Not asking for information he doesn't want out, but I'm curious if he's actually going to explain things to the people that are giving him thousands of dollars a month so that he can continue to not do any work for ("possibly") the rest of the year.

On the bright side, it sounds like the actual cancer situation is improving? Not sure why he couldn't have given more of an update on that area, at least.

[deuterio12]

I think "ending a comic purposefully" is even different from "comic dying due to neglect". I don't think I have ever watched a comic die the way Erfworld seems to be exiting the world, but I have come across a couple dead comics of the same sort. Wait, no. Real Life died the death the Erfworld is dying. Then it came back to life after 5 years. Otherwise, I have seen story ended comics (A Miracle of Science comes to mind) and dead of neglect (Elf Only Inn, Dumnestor's Heros).

VGcats is an interesting case that it started in 2003 and had quite slow updates, but still kept going and with significant art improvements over time, until a little over one year ago the author started drawing porn lewds of his own characters for patreon supporters only and that seemed to produce so much money for him that since then he's only been posting private porn in his patreon to those who pay and the main comic seems truly dead this time. In the patreon he claims to be just taking a break, but the old comic site had no updates (not even a ' taking break' one) since he started with the lewds.

Not sure why he couldn't have given more of an update on that area, at least.

"Hey guys important news! You want to know what it is? Then open your wallets, I'm not giving any details for free anymore."

Gotta milk the comic cow as much as possible.

[Killer Angel]

This comic is just dying a slow death.

Yeah, pretty much.
Back in the days, it was a strong contender to my fav. webcomic, struggling against OOTS... then we all know the slow descent.

I basically gave up during the 4th book, but i managed to follow it somehow, every once in a while.

After the first 3 prologue for book 5, i decided I've had enough.
Today, out of curiosity, i went to the site to see what was going on... yeah, prologue 17, and a further request for money without even a serious explanation.

what a pity.

[Willie the Duck]

I think "ending a comic purposefully" is even different from "comic dying due to neglect". I don't think I have ever watched a comic die the way Erfworld seems to be exiting the world, but I have come across a couple dead comics of the same sort. Wait, no. Real Life died the death the Erfworld is dying. Then it came back to life after 5 years. Otherwise, I have seen story ended comics (A Miracle of Science comes to mind) and dead of neglect (Elf Only Inn, Dumnestor's Heros).

Comics over a certain age tend to either become formulaic (Kevin and Kell), kudzu-plot hyperknots (Sluggy Freelance, El Goonish Shive), or the-same-comic-in-name-only (Wapsi Square, Questionable Content kind-of, Schlock Mercenary is moving towards a soft re-boot or the like). That, or closing down one project to start another (Shortpacked=>Dumbing of Age, Narbonic=>Skin Horse), seem to be the way one would want to end a strip with. Most, however, seem to go the way of all other hobbies -- some people can keep the thing going (maybe even earning a living or side-salary at it), but for most it just gets picked up less and less frequently. The only real difference is that there's usually a website and outsiders checking back in on it going, "hmmm, I wonder if this is ever going to be picked back up). I know there were a few webcomics (Brat-hala, Anywhere but Here, Alien Loves Predator) that I kept checking back in on for probably a decade after they stopped updating, just to see if they were ever coming back (it's a testament to the cheapness of web-hosting that the sites didn't disappear).

[Iain]

This comic is just dying a slow death.

After this announcement, I wouldn't say it's slow now - there's no reason to go back for the next half year or so unless you're one of the followers who inexplicably still seem to want to just give their money to RB, and I'd imagine most of those who stop visiting now won't bother going back later even if it restarts (which it might not).

It's a shame - the first book was great, and the second wasn't terrible - but I'm afraid the guy just doesn't have what it takes to run a webcomic. It's possible that he'd make a good writer if someone else edited and managed things, but that isn't how it is.

[Ornithologist]

For the Paid only version, let me sum up:

• Still doesn't say what new bad thing is. Says actual information in the public would make things much worse. its about other people?
• Cancer going as good as can be expected. last tests showed no new spots etc.
• More medical bills for everyone. But unrelated to anything above, and mostly not new info. None of this in particular was holding up the comic.
• Is trying to rebuild from the ground up (again) how the comic gets made because:
• He is now convinced the comic as made currently needs more people working on it than currently are or he could reliablly pay to do it.
• As to how everything is managed in his words:

  As a manager, I'm only a notch or two above Stanley the Tool.

Aside from the straw that broke the camels back, he was super up front about everything. I hope the break lets him get his life in order enough to get back to the story people want.

[Divayth Fyr]

For the Paid only version, let me sum up:

After all that happened, why on earth did he think a paid only version of the news is a good idea?

He is now convinced the comic as made currently needs more people working on it than currently are or he could reliablly pay to do it.

Or it needs someone with a good idea how to work on a comic - many good comics that reliably update and have good art have smaller teams than Erfworld...

I hope the break lets him get his life in order enough to get back to the story people want.

Considering everything that happened, I'm not sure he'll ever sort things out enough to get back to the story (in a proper fashion anyway).

[tomaO2]

For the Paid only version, let me sum up:

Aside from the straw that broke the camels back, he was super up front about everything. I hope the break lets him get his life in order enough to get back to the story people want.

Thank you. I appreciate the summery. Doesn't sound like anything is here that needed to be behind a paywall. There is a lot of good will to be had by being honest with ALL the readers. I mean, can you imagine what would have happened if all the cancer posts were behind a paywall? I can tell you that his donations would NOT have jumped by over 1000$ if he had been secretive.

I doubt the break will gain any new ability to tell the story. The last good idea he had was finally setting it in stone that you don't get paid if the update is late. That lasted a good year of regular content. I guarantee that run will NEVER happen again as long as rain or shine is an option. I also think he's going down the wrong lane by saying he needs a bigger staff. His comic operation is much more complicated than it needs to be. If 2-3 people isn't enough to make a comic, you got issues. A writer, a main artist, and an assistant artist, if you really need it. How many times have we had new art teams? How many kickstarters to fund them?

Just kickstarter after kickstarter for every new expense, and he's already making THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS for every page he writes. He can even kick back and do text based pages, that can be under 1k words. The amount of flexibility he has in his job, plus the amount of money he gets, is mind blowing, and I feel he downplays it way too much. I think he could do more than he does. I know he's got a lot on his plate, he could do more, millions of people are forced to do more and don't have even a tenth of what he's got.

On top of that, the story is simply not grabbing people like it used to. No one says that book 4 is a high water mark for Erfworld. <Shrugs>

[cervidal]

It's a shame - the first book was great, and the second wasn't terrible - but I'm afraid the guy just doesn't have what it takes to run a project.

Fixed that for you.

Do a little background checking on the guy - he's never once followed through to completion on anything he's started if it doesn't have a hard deadline imposed by others and result in a near-immediate payoff.

Giving him money up front is just bad business.

[Ornithologist]

I also think he's going down the wrong lane by saying he needs a bigger staff. His comic operation is much more complicated than it needs to be. If 2-3 people isn't enough to make a comic, you got issues. A writer, a main artist, and an assistant artist, if you really need it. <Shrugs>

I don't think I was super clear on my summary, but he agrees with you on this point. its one reason why they are trying redo how they make it from the ground up. Hope they can figure out how. I did a solo operation for couple years, until my short attention span took over. So I know its not as hard as he has made it.

As a bit of full disclosure, I give him money for his on time updates only. So I'm sorta getting free access for the paid content until he starts acutal content updates again.

[HorizonWalker]

Something I think worth mentioning here is that, in the public announcement, Rob declared his intent to start doing the comic with 3D modeling, because apparently drawing the comic like a normal person just isn't enough for him.

[Gez]

There are tons of Poser comics out there, and they're all terrible-looking.

[slayerx]

Something I think worth mentioning here is that, in the public announcement, Rob declared his intent to start doing the comic with 3D modeling, because apparently drawing the comic like a normal person just isn't enough for him.

That sounds like WAY more work than its worth. Frnakly there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the comic when it comes to its art. Seriously the comic shouldn't really need more than 3 people; 1 writer, 1 character artist and 1 background artist. And with 3K per updates Rob could afford to pay them full time likely with 2 updates a week (number of updates might depend on how well they coordinate with eachother)