My Thoughts On Modern Wrestling

[Trafalgar]

Came for a discussion on Professional Wrestling.

Found a discussion on the nature of art.

[Kornaki]

Isn't wrestling a kind of art anyway?

[pendell]

Isn't wrestling a kind of art anyway?

Performance art, I would say. Physical gymnastics plus choreography plus acting, all to give a performance. Like Shakespeare but in tights.

:Has brief vision of wrestlers trying to perform Romeo and Juliet in the ring, and now won't be able to unsee it for the rest of the day.:

How do the parents consider this art?

It was a joke. The parents took their childs drawing and made up a professional sounding frame for it, which they (and the art account which republished it) thought was funny, and I agree. Of course it's not comparable to the work of a professional artist.

I say this as shouldn't, because I'm pretty good at offending people myself, but even so: You're not winning any friends by continuing to harp on the shortcomings. We all recognize it isn't up to the standards of art as made by professional art students. It's not like they draw stick figures [well.... ] . And most of us got the joke. When you keep trying to criticize a four-year-old as if they were an adult, it makes you look like you're punching down. That's bullying, and it makes you look petty. I'm giving you this advice, publicly, because I think you can do better.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Fawkes]

I like Hangman Adam Page!

[Tvtyrant]

Anyone who truly a literate person can see you not literate. 😛


Yeah, it's crap, but it's still art. Most art is crap, it's just a small minority of it that's any good.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think most art is good, we just live in a society that only cares about the very pinnacle of things because we can disseminate it to everyone. 200 years ago you might see one piece of great art in your life, which was the local fixture, and a ton of everyday art done by everyone else for thousands of years. Everyone sang and crafted because the comparison point was low and general, and the one tiny painting done by someone inspired in your town 500 years ago or the one or two thousand year old buildings that were truly beautiful were more like landmarks then something to aspire to.

Now if you sing to yourself everyone around you compares you to the best 500 singers who have lived since recordings occurred, and if you paint they compare you to the best 1,000 paintings that have survived in the world. Your art is good in the same way your body is beautiful and your athleticism is impressive, we just created an impossible standard to meet.

[Fawkes]

we just live in a society that only cares about the very pinnacle of things

I love the Pinnacle!

[Bartmanhomer]

Performance art, I would say. Physical gymnastics plus choreography plus acting, all to give a performance. Like Shakespeare but in tights.

:Has brief vision of wrestlers trying to perform Romeo and Juliet in the ring, and now won't be able to unsee it for the rest of the day.:



It was a joke. The parents took their childs drawing and made up a professional sounding frame for it, which they (and the art account which republished it) thought was funny, and I agree. Of course it's not comparable to the work of a professional artist.

I say this as shouldn't, because I'm pretty good at offending people myself, but even so: You're not winning any friends by continuing to harp on the shortcomings. We all recognize it isn't up to the standards of art as made by professional art students. It's not like they draw stick figures [well.... ] . And most of us got the joke. When you keep trying to criticize a four-year-old as if they were an adult, it makes you look like you're punching down. That's bullying, and it makes you look petty. I'm giving you this advice, publicly, because I think you can do better.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

The definition of bullying is harassing.

The definition of criticism is critique

[Eldan]

Well, I'm not sorry for criticizing the kid's artwork. I make no apology for that. If I truly see something that doesn't appeal to me, I'm going to be very honest and speak my mind about how I feel about it. I'm not going sit here and lie and say "Good drawing. You deserve a gold medal." No, I'm going to do that. I'm going, to tell the truth, even if the truth hurts.

You are confusing craftsmanship (technical skill) with artistry. Something is not art because it is complicated or difficult to make.

[Tvtyrant]

You are confusing craftsmanship (technical skill) with artistry. Something is not art because it is complicated or difficult to make.

Otherwise city planning would be high art amirite? (I am right.)

[Bartmanhomer]

You are confusing craftsmanship (technical skill) with artistry. Something is not art because it is complicated or difficult to make.

No, I'm not.

[Eldan]

No, I'm not.

So, a computer chip is art? A technical manual?

[Cygnia]

One of my favorite matches...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfRg71tufmY

[Bartmanhomer]

So, a computer chip is an art? A technical manual?

No, it's not an art. It's a computer chip.

[Keltest]

No, it's not an art. It's a computer chip.

Why isnt it art? Its complicated and takes a lot of hard work to make. From what youve told us, thats what it takes for something to be art.

[Bartmanhomer]

Why isn't it art? It's complicated and takes a lot of hard work to make. From what you've told us, that's what it takes for something to be art.

Now that you mentioned it. I misjudged the computer chip. My apologies for that.

Here's the definition of art:


1. noun
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
"the art of the Renaissance"

[Eldan]

No, it's not an art. It's a computer chip.

But it's very complicated to make. Then why is not art?

[Fawkes]

Chris Hero is a knockout artist!

[Bartmanhomer]

But it's very complicated to make. Then why is not art?

I misjudged it by mistake. You're right. Even I can't be wrong sometimes.

[snowblizz]

Performance art, I would say. Physical gymnastics plus choreography plus acting, all to give a performance. Like Shakespeare but in tights.

Is an entirely valid thing to say.

Some would claim wrestling is a sport. That is also a valid viewpoint.

I'd be leaning towards the former rather than the latter for the reasons you list.

Isn't Shakespeare technically perform in tights in the original... *looks at Elizabethan clothing*... yup.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think most art is good, we just live in a society that only cares about the very pinnacle of things because we can disseminate it to everyone. 200 years ago you might see one piece of great art in your life, which was the local fixture, and a ton of everyday art done by everyone else for thousands of years. Everyone sang and crafted because the comparison point was low and general, and the one tiny painting done by someone inspired in your town 500 years ago or the one or two thousand year old buildings that were truly beautiful were more like landmarks then something to aspire to.

Don't forget times change. When Monet and Manet did impressionist paintings they were not considered proper art because of the style they did the paintings in. The movement(s) after them were similarly panned. Most artists couldn't sell a canvas for a crust of bread in their own times.

But I'm willing to die on the hill that Dadaism isn't as much an ism as someone that's plain old bonkers.


FWIW a funny thing I think of when I look at old art is that medieval illustrated manuscripts are really badly drawn. Then somewhere around the 1500s it's like people learn to draw properly, and I don't really know why that is.

Came for a discussion on Professional Wrestling.

Found a discussion on the nature of art.

OOTS messageboards FTW.

[Trafalgar]

Is an entirely valid thing to say.

Some would claim wrestling is a sport. That is also a valid viewpoint.

I'd be leaning towards the former rather than the latter for the reasons you list.

Isn't Shakespeare technically perform in tights in the original... *looks at Elizabethan clothing*... yup.

I think professional wrestling is a performance art, not a sport. I can't think of sport where the outcome was determined before the match starts.

[Bartmanhomer]

But it's very complicated to make. Then why is not art?

One of my favorite matches...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfRg71tufmY

This is the very first time to see someone in a wheelchair wrestle. I wonder what are the rules for wheelchair wrestling?

[Tvtyrant]

Is an entirely valid thing to say.

Some would claim wrestling is a sport. That is also a valid viewpoint.

I'd be leaning towards the former rather than the latter for the reasons you list.

Isn't Shakespeare technically perform in tights in the original... *looks at Elizabethan clothing*... yup.


Don't forget times change. When Monet and Manet did impressionist paintings they were not considered proper art because of the style they did the paintings in. The movement(s) after them were similarly panned. Most artists couldn't sell a canvas for a crust of bread in their own times.

But I'm willing to die on the hill that Dadaism isn't as much an ism as someone that's plain old bonkers.


FWIW a funny thing I think of when I look at old art is that medieval illustrated manuscripts are really badly drawn. Then somewhere around the 1500s it's like people learn to draw properly, and I don't really know why that is.




OOTS messageboards FTW.

They reinvented point perspective, where all of the lines are drawn along a pre-planned grid so things shrink properly to the eye. Ironically artists can't paint motion well, so they had to wait for cameras to train human eyes to see motion as a blur to draw still motion.

[Fawkes]

I think professional wrestling is a performance art, not a sport. I can't think of sport where the outcome was determined before the match starts.

Kris Statlander used to do competitive gymnastics! She did memorized athletic routines! Now she's a wrestler and she's great!

Spoiler

Show

[Peelee]

Here's the definition of art:

That is not the definition of art. That is a definition of art. Art is, by its very nature, subjective. It's not going to be something easily classified with hard, fine lines. There is no referee who decides what is art and what is not.

And all that is leaving out patently unfair criticism of a 4-year-old's art.

[Fawkes]

There is no referee who decides what is art and what is not.

If there was, I hope it would be Aubrey Edwards! She's great!

[Bartmanhomer]

That is not the definition of art. That is a definition of art. Art is, by its very nature, subjective. It's not going to be something easily classified with hard, fine lines. There is no referee who decides what is art and what is not.

And all that is leaving out patently unfair criticism of a 4-year-old's art.

I was very fair and honest here. Criticism is part of life. If the kid would have at least put a decent amount of effort and work into his art then my opinion would have changed and I would approve his artwork. I still stand by what I said about it and I'm not going to change my opinion because of what I said.

[Cygnia]

If there was, I hope it would be Aubrey Edwards! She's great!

I see your Aubrey and raise you Bryce!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59vZYYg2LY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-CAAy8_-lU

[Peelee]

I was very fair and honest here. Criticism is part of life. If the kid would have at least put a decent amount of effort and work into his art then my opinion would have changed and I would approve his artwork. I still stand by what I said about it and I'm not going to change my opinion because of what I said.

You're judging a child by adult standards. You compared a 4-year-old to a 48-year-old. You're being incredibly unfair.

I don't really care if you change your opinion or not. You can believe whatever you want to believe. But if you think it's perfectly fine to judge a kindergartener's attempt at drawing compared to a middle-aged man's.... well, I hope you don't expect to get a lot of agreement.

[Fawkes]

I see your Aubrey and raise you Bryce!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y59vZYYg2LY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-CAAy8_-lU

I love Bryce Remsberg!

[Fyraltari]

Even I can't be wrong sometimes.

Yes, you can.

Exhibit A:

Even I can't be wrong sometimes.