Crazier Idea Mafia

[AvatarVecna]

AvatarVecna

[Valmark]

I see what you're saying - this definitely could read as one faction looking to shift blame. I'll keep it in mind, not sure I'm ready to call Elenna Mafia (or less likely Alien) though.

Regardless of Elenna's faction it still is a good point that she makes: that we don't have to just get rid of the three factions, but make that any one of them isn't too powerful to win the game outright.

This- one of the reason for last game's win is that the faction that won was basically left unscathed through the game if I recall correctly.

[Apogee1]

Zelphas

Discarding an investigative probably? is indicative of not being a town

At least more likely than a random discard

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The whole "Look at the werewolves!" line is interesting

Because I seem to remember there were slightly less werewolf cards randed into the game last time but more of them ended up as a faction. Ratio is different this time though

Idk where I'm going with this really but unless you are a member of one of those factions I think speculating too much on relative size is meh here

[Zelphas]

Zelphas

Discarding an investigative probably? is indicative of not being a town

At least more likely than a random discard

I'm hurt, Apogee1.

I think I understand your reasoning, but I'm hurt.

I'm still getting the hang of how all the roles are supposed to work, so I might have made some non-optimal choices with my role selection. I guess I'll find out how poorly I chose as the game progresses... provided I survive, of course.

[JeenLeen]

Zelphas

Discarding an investigative probably? is indicative of not being a town

At least more likely than a random discard

I'm hurt, Apogee1.

I think I understand your reasoning, but I'm hurt.

I'm still getting the hang of how all the roles are supposed to work, so I might have made some non-optimal choices with my role selection. I guess I'll find out how poorly I chose as the game progresses... provided I survive, of course.

Apogee1 knows the metagame around here doesn't (without good reason) lynch new players D1. So while noting suspicion and even voting for someone in itself isn't bad, per se, it's almost meaningless.
This could be a distancing thing between two scum-buddies. Each poking each other with an essentially harmless vote: Apogee can be fairly certain a D1 wagon won't form on Zephas, while Zephas could (reasonably and with justificable reasonings) change their vote to someone else if a wagon forms on Apogee.

Though this could also just be normal D1 randomness and half-joking, and Apogee does make a legitimate point, so I'm not very suspicious, but suspicious enough to note this for the record (in case I die tonight) and file it away for interpretation later on in the game.

AvatarVecna

I feel like there's stuff to say about this, but not sure quite what...

To new player(s): AV does sometimes vote for herself to see what the response is. I do have some speculation based on this, but I don't think sharing it would help the Town (or Survivor, if one exists), so I'll wait until more is revealed by AV or N1/D2 starts to comment.

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EDIT/follow-up: the closeness of Apogee1 and Zephas' posts also makes it possible they were coordinating this in private chat before making it public.
If that's the case, they'd have to be Aliens, right, since only Aliens can use private chat during the Day? If I recall correctly, Werewolves and Mafia cannot. (Please correct me if I'm misremembering!)

So... if one of them flips Alien, I suspect the other as Alien.

[Unavenger]

only Aliens can use private chat during the Day? If I recall correctly, Werewolves and Mafia cannot. (Please correct me if I'm misremembering!)

You're not misremembering: you are right to say that aliens, and only aliens, can daytalk privately (although anyone can talk to themselves at any time).

[JeenLeen]

Actually, change my vote to Apogee1. It's suspicious enough for D1, and my suspicions on AV are based on playstyle and metagaming, and her self-voting (in the particular case of this game) makes me inclined to believe her as non-wolf. (If/when she dies, I'll state my reasonings if anyone's curious/I remember to, but I'd rather be quiet about it for now.)
If Apogee flips Alien today, I recommend lynch Zephas D2.

Still wary of AV, but, well, it's probable some faction will try to take her out as a dangerous foe (either Town or an enemy faction), so her longevity is likely limited anyway and she'll flip sooner than later without being lynched.

[Elenna]

Does this seem shady to anyone else? Like one evil faction indirectly shifting attention to another? I could be misreading it, but it feels shady to me.

I mean... I said it because I think it helps town to say "I think this faction is more dangerous than this other faction" but I can't deny it also helps mafia. But we don't want a situation like last game where one faction starts out disproportionately large and then doesn't lose any members for the first couple days and wins based on that. Hopefully my behavior in the rest of the game makes it clear that I'm doing this yo help town and not mafia.

Anyways it's basically a moot point right now since there isn't enough information to target any specific faction.

[Xihirli]

So it seems like we're all clustering around the people who discarded the best town roles. For me I picked the person who discarded vigilante AND HIS NAME IS RED, YOU GUYS!, but the others gravitated toward the "I can confirm my role" discarder.

Though JeenLeen's consideration of Apogee1 is interesting to me. I kind of want to see where it goes if Apogee1 bites it.

[The Outsider]

Interesting line of thought. We don't really have anything better to go on, so let's see what happens with Apogee1.

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Spoiler: A funny thought I had...

Show

-Xihirli says that Cao's name is red
-If your name is red, you're an Impostor
-The only people who can see this are the Impostors
-This implies (and the joke is) that Xihirli is an Impostor along with Cao
-Impostors are shape-shifting aliens whose goal is to murder every human among them and take control
-Shape-shifting, murderous aliens...
-Murderous aliens...
Xihirli and Cao are both Aliens, and should be voted out at once!

[Xihirli]

A ridiculous claim from one such as you. You were banished with the other outsiders.

[Apogee1]

So I'm being wagoned on the conclusion I am

... exactly alien/alien with Zelphas

Which feels like the kind of push that mafia/wolves are perfectly happy to throw out there early on d1

So I think I'll enjoy blasting through this wagon where the order of wolfy vote on me is exactly

Xihirli
Jeen
Outsider
Zelphas

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I also was planning to go back to FF mafia and be like

"Contrast this nice solid case that JeenLeen made there early d1 with the hedgy pile of half a conclusion on me here"

But that failed once I realized he was a wolf there

So now idk

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Not sure about the Aliens honestly- a Mindslaver would be far more useful then the killing one.

Mindslaver GOAT btw super fun role to have last time

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Personally I discarded Protective because it's boring, Outsider.

Hey Unavenger, can we communicate with others who are not in our faction? I want to be able to talk to people in private. Besides myself I mean.

.... I swear someone last set up had this exact line and flipped wolf

Also second line kind of feels "Look I'm totally not in a private chat nope nope"

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Apogee1 knows the metagame around here doesn't (without good reason) lynch new players D1. So while noting suspicion and even voting for someone in itself isn't bad, per se, it's almost meaningless.
This could be a distancing thing between two scum-buddies. Each poking each other with an essentially harmless vote: Apogee can be fairly certain a D1 wagon won't form on Zephas, while Zephas could (reasonably and with justificable reasonings) change their vote to someone else if a wagon forms on Apogee.

Though this could also just be normal D1 randomness and half-joking, and Apogee does make a legitimate point, so I'm not very suspicious, but suspicious enough to note this for the record (in case I die tonight) and file it away for interpretation later on in the game.

If I say I've never voted for a partner of mine before will you believe me

[JeenLeen]

So I'm being wagoned on the conclusion I am

... exactly alien/alien with Zelphas

Which feels like the kind of push that mafia/wolves are perfectly happy to throw out there early on d1

So I think I'll enjoy blasting through this wagon where the order of wolfy vote on me is exactly

Xihirli
Jeen
Outsider
Zelphas

Correct. If it weren't D1 where we're all grasping at straws, I wouldn't consider it worthwhile, but it is D1 and my other straw is that I think AV's find Town boring, so that puts you in the crosshairs.

However, I don't think I understand your line of "blasting through the wagon where the order of wolfy vote on me is"--are you saying you have an idea which one of us (if any) is non-Town? Want to share the thoughts?
If you do die today and flip Town, your reasoning could be helpful.

Also second line kind of feels "Look I'm totally not in a private chat nope nope"

Yeah, I can see that as a wolf move.
Might say more, but want to confirm something with Unavenger in QT first.

If I say I've never voted for a partner of mine before will you believe me

That's true to my recollection, but not strong evidence.

[Apogee1]

Correct. If it weren't D1 where we're all grasping at straws, I wouldn't consider it worthwhile, but it is D1 and my other straw is that I think AV's find Town boring, so that puts you in the crosshairs.

However, I don't think I understand your line of "blasting through the wagon where the order of wolfy vote on me is"--are you saying you have an idea which one of us (if any) is non-Town? Want to share the thoughts?
If you do die today and flip Town, your reasoning could be helpful.

Yeah

That was the order of how much of a wolf I could see in each vote on me

Cause being honest, at least 60%+ of this game is not town, so sorting through the voters on me to find wolves is as solid a strategy as any cause I can ground it off my own alignment.

And, 4/5 people to check into the thread (everyone but Elenna) voted me in succession with their first post back. Screams "this guy isn't in my faction and Jeen (who I think in this situation is slightly less likely to be in that person's faction) just wrote a quasi-plausible case so I'm happy to hop on here lets hope it coasts out and my buddies are clear today"

Xihirli gets the mark of the wolfiest because tonally her line where she votes me is very much like that disinterested "aight let's get a [not-my-faction] on the block and foist the blame for it onto Jeen" I was expecting

OTOH, Xihirli

Outsider is the same idea but I was less tonally pinged

Your (Jeens) vote wasn't particularly bad and a thought I can see you having as town

Even if I think the whole "early crossvotes are distancing" thing that comes up like, every d1 here isn't actually indicative of who are wolf buddies at all

I don't think Zelphras's vote in an of itself is wolfy
Though I still think discarding investigative is a fine reason to poke

Yeah, I can see that as a wolf move.
Might say more, but want to confirm something with Unavenger in QT first.



That's true to my recollection, but not strong evidence.

Caeruluea

Spoiler

Show

Distancing with Zelphras complete I can now wagon people not in my faction
In all seriousness this is a better vote than Zel

That's true to my recollection, but not strong evidence.

Yea that's about right

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I'd also be very down for voting Xihirli today for reasons I described above

But it seems that happens d1 not particularly often

[Unavenger]

Someone pointed out that I had some uncooked copypasta in my OP. No, townies did not get the info - the info that was previously listed in the OP - this game, because I couldn't be bothered to include it this time, basically.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Apogee got a whole bunch of votes real quick, and I'm definitely interested in having some sort of competing wagon. For now I'll vote AvatarVecna though I'm doubtful the vote on yourself is gonna last? So any explanation for that vote would be cool.

Apogee - What's the reason for the vote on Caerulea? Based on your post, I assumed you would rather vote someone on your wagon.

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Vote Count:
Captain Cap (1): Elenna
Valmark (1): plenty
Apogee1 (5): PartyOfRogues, Zelphas, JeenLeen, Xihirli, The Outsider
The Outsider (1): Caerulea
AvatarVecna (3): Valmark, AvatarVecna, CaomhinTheCape
JeenLeen (1): gac3
rogue_alchemist (1): Captain Cap
Caerulea (2): rogue_alchemist, Apogee1

[Apogee1]

Apogee - What's the reason for the vote on Caerulea? Based on your post, I assumed you would rather vote someone on your wagon.

Yea this post really -- I talked about it a bit above

Personally I discarded Protective because it's boring, Outsider.

Hey Unavenger, can we communicate with others who are not in our faction? I want to be able to talk to people in private. Besides myself I mean.

Think it's worth poking in different directions right now still got plenty of time in the day. Attention will come on my wagon/me just by virtue of it being the largest wagon so people will look at the votes on me and who made them anyways, so figured I'd look elsewhere for the moment

But if people are up for Xihirli let's do it

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Though I still think discarding investigative is a fine reason to poke

Caeruluea

Caerulea discarded Town Protective

Ok, that was my confusion then. I'm guessing you meant discarding protective in your post?

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Think it's worth poking in different directions right now still got plenty of time in the day. Attention will come on my wagon/me just by virtue of it being the largest wagon so people will look at the votes on me and who made them anyways, so figured I'd look elsewhere for the moment

That's a fair point too, not that an actual wagon is forming we'll see who is willing to lynch you/goes for someone else.

[AvatarVecna]

Apogee got a whole bunch of votes real quick, and I'm definitely interested in having some sort of competing wagon. For now I'll vote AvatarVecna though I'm doubtful the vote on yourself is gonna last? So any explanation for that vote would be cool.

Apogee - What's the reason for the vote on Caerulea? Based on your post, I assumed you would rather vote someone on your wagon.

---

Vote Count:
Captain Cap (1): Elenna
Valmark (1): plenty
Apogee1 (5): PartyOfRogues, Zelphas, JeenLeen, Xihirli, The Outsider
The Outsider (1): Caerulea
AvatarVecna (3): Valmark, AvatarVecna, CaomhinTheCape
JeenLeen (1): gac3
rogue_alchemist (1): Captain Cap
Caerulea (2): rogue_alchemist, Apogee1

Prepare to be surprised.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Alright, well, then aside from the vote on yourself any thoughts on the game so far?

[Xihirli]

Yeah

That was the order of how much of a wolf I could see in each vote on me

Cause being honest, at least 60%+ of this game is not town, so sorting through the voters on me to find wolves is as solid a strategy as any cause I can ground it off my own alignment.

And, 4/5 people to check into the thread (everyone but Elenna) voted me in succession with their first post back. Screams "this guy isn't in my faction and Jeen (who I think in this situation is slightly less likely to be in that person's faction) just wrote a quasi-plausible case so I'm happy to hop on here lets hope it coasts out and my buddies are clear today"

Xihirli gets the mark of the wolfiest because tonally her line where she votes me is very much like that disinterested "aight let's get a [not-my-faction] on the block and foist the blame for it onto Jeen" I was expecting

OTOH, Xihirli

Outsider is the same idea but I was less tonally pinged

Your (Jeens) vote wasn't particularly bad and a thought I can see you having as town

Even if I think the whole "early crossvotes are distancing" thing that comes up like, every d1 here isn't actually indicative of who are wolf buddies at all

I don't think Zelphras's vote in an of itself is wolfy
Though I still think discarding investigative is a fine reason to poke



Caeruluea

Spoiler

Show

Distancing with Zelphras complete I can now wagon people not in my faction
In all seriousness this is a better vote than Zel

Yea that's about right

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I'd also be very down for voting Xihirli today for reasons I described above

But it seems that happens d1 not particularly often

I see what you're saying, but consider: We have a 60%+ chance of getting someone who isn't town. Suddenly, Town has a weird margin of error change where they get to be less careful with their votes while simultaneously needing it a lot more. The more people are dead, the better it is for town.
So I guess you're right, I don't really care that much who dies day one. I think anyone will do. But I've never been a fan of the "you're voting for me so you're on my list of suspicion" argument so now I have to kill you on principle.

Luckily for you, I forget my principles all the time, so I could see myself switching wagons. Cao's name is red, so that's a good wagon to go with. Or this AV self-voting gambit could be fun to watch.

[AvatarVecna]

Or this AV self-voting gambit could be fun to watch.

Prepare to be disappointed.

[Xihirli]

I never prepare for anything.

[Apogee1]

So is like

everyone an alien and chilling in alien chat and that's why no one is posting here lol

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Ok, that was my confusion then. I'm guessing you meant discarding protective in your post?

Nah I think lines got crossed a bit -- Caerula's first post was what I didn't like

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So I guess you're right, I don't really care that much who dies day one. I think anyone will do. But I've never been a fan of the "you're voting for me so you're on my list of suspicion" argument so now I have to kill you on principle.

I'm not wolfreading you for voting me but for how you voted me

Semantics maybe

[Elenna]

Hmm I kinda see JeenLeen's argument that voting a new player isn't very useful when you know that new players very rarely get voted off D1, so it could maybe be good distancing?
OTOH I don't see anything particularly unusual about Zelphas' response to the vote, it's basically just an OMGUS* vote as far as I can tell, which isn't great but it's pretty normal D1. Jeen seems to be arguing that it's harmless because Zelphas can easily switch off, but that's true of all the joke votes that have been made. So, eh, I see what Jeen is going for but IMO it's an even weaker argument than Jeen thinks it is.

Anyways, definitely not voting for Apogee now, I don't want to have one huge wagon just based on a weak argument. Better to have multiple competing wagons D1 for future analysis.

The speed of the wagon springing up is definitely weird, and it makes me a little more inclined to trust Apogee, although much less than I would be in a game with only one evil faction. Still, it makes sense that someone in a non-town faction might want Apogee to be lynched as an easy target. The Apogee votes are as follows:

• Early D1, PartyOfRouges votes Apogee based on RNG
• Later, Apogee votes Zelphas for discarding investigative.
• Zelphas responds with an OMGUS vote
• Jeen accuses Apogee and Zelphas of being aliens together, and votes Apogee
• Xihirli jumps on the Apogee wagon to "see where it goes"
• Outsider jumps on the Apogee wagon because "We don't really have anything better to go on"

So it's really only Xi and Outsider who could be voting because they needed an easy excuse to jump on a wagon. I'm not seeing any particular difference between them tone-wise, but tbh I'm not very good at judging people's tone.
I'd be down to switch to either Xi or Outsider if other people are interested.

Xihirli gets the mark of the wolfiest because tonally her line where she votes me is very much like that disinterested "aight let's get a [not-my-faction] on the block and foist the blame for it onto Jeen" I was expecting

OTOH, Xihirli

Outsider is the same idea but I was less tonally pinged

Your (Jeens) vote wasn't particularly bad and a thought I can see you having as town

Even if I think the whole "early crossvotes are distancing" thing that comes up like, every d1 here isn't actually indicative of who are wolf buddies at all

Wait, then why did you list Jeen as more likely to be a wolf than Outsider earlier?

.... I swear someone last set up had this exact line and flipped wolf

Also second line kind of feels "Look I'm totally not in a private chat nope nope"

Eh, I can kinda see it, I guess? See earlier comment about being bad at tone.
That being said, my vote isn't doing any good by itself on Captain Cap. And I like this argument better than the one for Apogee or the one for AV. (The argument against AV seems mainly to be that they're unlikely to pick town, which is true, but based on the previous game it's also true of almost everyone, so it's not really helpful.) So I'll move my vote to Caerulea. Let's see what happens with a second three-vote wagon, I guess?

*OMGUS = Oh My God U Suck, a vote cast with no reasoning beyond "you voted for me".

[Apogee1]

Wait, then why did you list Jeen as more likely to be a wolf than Outsider earlier?

Realized a reason I thought he might have been a wolf making that case didn't apply (right after that list I talk about it) and realized I was more okay with what he did than I thought earlier

Although I realize I never articulated that clearly they've been swapped around in my head for a bit now

[Apogee1]

Well since it yet again seems to be a bad spot

I claim survivor

Since I can win with anyone and all that voting me off today is a) something I very much don’t like and b) bad for literally all of the rest of you

[The Outsider]

Any investigative roles (Town or otherwise) should really check that claim. Regardless, I'm willing to believe it for the moment.
Is it too much to ask what role you took along with survivor?
Caerulea

[Apogee1]

Any investigative roles (Town or otherwise) should really check that claim. Regardless, I'm willing to believe it for the moment.
Is it too much to ask what role you took along with survivor?
Caerulea

Yeah I'd rather not be strongmanned I'll consider revealing tomorrow

[Valmark]

Well since it yet again seems to be a bad spot

I claim survivor

Since I can win with anyone and all that voting me off today is a) something I very much don’t like and b) bad for literally all of the rest of you

If you are the Survivor why not claim earlier? Seems to me like you'd want to let people know who you are.