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Thread: Researching Spells
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2010-02-23, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Researching Spells
Ok, so in the SRD we have,
SpoilerIndependent Research
A wizard also can research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one.
I don't particularly want to make new spells, but I would like to research to pick some new spells for my spellbook. Particularly, I'd like to get Levitation even though I've already picked 4 level 4 spells (Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Web, and Alter Self). But I cannot find any rules adjudicating this research. Are there any in a splat book I could reference my GM to? Or in the main books?
I tried the DMG and it talks about creating new spells, specifically that they shouldn't be too powerful and how much damage is "too much" for Divine/Arcane spells.
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2010-02-23, 04:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Hm, I don't think there are any. I hope I'm wrong, because it would be pretty dumb on WotC's part not to include real guidelines for this sort of thing. Par for the course I guess.
Originally Posted by The Giant
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2010-02-23, 04:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Scrolls of said spells might be your answer.
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2010-02-23, 04:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Particularly, I'd like to get Levitation even though I've already picked 4 level 4 spells (Mirror Image, Glitterdust, Web, and Alter Self).
You can always just use Alter Self to transform into something that has an actual Fly Speed, not the lame version of fly ie. Levitate.Common sense is not so common.
Nanfoodle the Maverick, Conjurer of expensive tricks
SpoilerOriginally Posted by I'm da Rogue!
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2010-02-23, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 05:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Independant of what spells he wants to add, this is an interesting question.
What are the rules for researching?
Recently resurrected. Sorry for bailing on you guys.
"Never play leapfrog with a unicorn"
Awesome OOTSatar by Crimmy, masterfully done.
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2010-02-23, 07:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
I do not know if there is an official way to research a spell, but you can duplicate one from another spellbook into yours or from a scroll and that costs 500gp pr. page used in your spellbook
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2010-02-23, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Editor and playtester for Legend.
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2010-02-23, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
DMG pg 198 under "researching original spells". If you're just duplicating an existing spell, then there's no real need to quibble about spell levels. It'll cost you 1k*spell level and take spell level in weeks. Note: this is strictly inferior to copying spells from friendly spellcasters, but if access is limited, I guess you have no choice.
Last edited by Kylarra; 2010-02-23 at 12:50 PM.
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2010-02-23, 01:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-02-23, 01:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Um... a scroll of Wish costs 28,000 gp. Just saying. Also, was just an example. Use Time Stop if you want, the point stands.
Also, it's just a way to point out that the costs are a nigh-negligible tax on the most powerful mechanic in the game: getting new spells. You already get enough naturally to snap the universe in twain by sneezing, scrolls are just nice. I mean, 9k to get the best spells ever without leaving your basement? Sign me up.
If you lack magic marts to buy any scroll at that you want, than independent spell research is a good way to get that spell you just have to have, assuming you have the time. It's hardly all that prohibitive.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-02-23, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Oops, I forget that Wish costs more. xD
Spell research would be ok in game with no shops selling scrolls, but it take so long that how can PCs be expected to ever use it?
The time taken to go to the shop is roughly equal to the time taken to go to a library. So the only extra time is paying for whatever you choose.Last edited by Myou; 2010-02-23 at 01:26 PM.
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2010-02-23, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Um... some games actually offer down time? It's not an alien concept really.
Also, most games (based on my 12 years of play experience, to be fair) actually do not have shops with set lists of scrolls. You walk in, ask what they've got, and hope you get lucky.
These factors combined mean that yes, if you happen to find a scroll of what you want, then yay, good for you. If not... then spell research is a fine alternative, and should not be so easily dismissed. Now, in a straight comparison, yes, scrolls are obviously much more cost effective, but they're at the whim of the DM, where as spell research is a lot harder for him to justify removing ("What do you mean, I can't research fireball? I watched that guy cast it just yesterday!").
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-02-23, 01:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Considering that the spell in question could be Gate? Or Apocalypse from the Sky (not technically, but you get the idea)? Or any other number of world enders? I'm fine with it.
Now, for lower level, less relevant spells, such as Avoid Planar Effects, or Ray Deflection, or Stone Bones, ok, I might cut the time a little. It IS only a guideline, after all. But if someone is researching a dominant spell like Maw of Chaos, Glitterdust, or Enervation, you get to sit there and spend the time, since they are very very strong effects, and you should have to take a while to make them happen. Of course, this is also subject to the power level of the campaign in question, but that's just assumed.
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.
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2010-02-23, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
I'm a bit confused to as what you're asking... Are you looking to research a toned-down version of levitation to occupy a lower spell slot, or is it that your scroll selection is so restricted that you can't find anywhere to copy Levitation from? If it's the latter, I'm sure your DM can talk to you about your character researching the spell himself (It's certainly not a complicated spell). In that case, I've found that the rules for spell research are unfortunately very limited, and what rules are written in the three core books aren't necessarily that great.
In my group, we pay a flat gold fee per page of the spell (one page is taken up per level of the spell). It usually takes a couple weeks to research a spell, though a simple, low level spell might only take a day or two.
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2010-02-23, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-02-23, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
Only the ones I make... and I can't make a scroll of something if I don't have it in my spellbook... and I need a scroll of it to get it into my spellbook
1) My bad, typo
2) No, I can't, if I'm reading the spell correctly. I'm a human, so I can give myself a Swim speed, +6 natural armor, darkvision up to 120 feet, small size, large size (I think), and dark skin. Not all at once, of course.
I'm trying to research the Levitation spell presented in the PHB. Yes yes, strictly inferior to Fly, but that's not the point. I may not live to get Fly and Levitate is still extremely useful.
So far I've come across the opportunity to scribe Melf's Acid Arrow, Comprehend Languages, and something else that I can't remember. Only Comprehend Languages made the cut; however, and even then just because in Ravenloft there are so many languages and we end up going across the borders a lot.
EDIT: And 2k + 2 weeks is not worth Levitate. Unfortunately I'm going to have to start grubbing for spells a bit because I need to pick up the divination spells to qualify for Loremaster.Last edited by Superglucose; 2010-02-23 at 10:51 PM.
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2010-02-23, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
You can also find a friendly wizard buddy who does know Levitate and see if you can convince him to let you copy it out of his spell book.
8 hours and a DC 17 Spellcraft check. Bam.
If there aren't any friendly wizard buddies, find a semi-friendly wizard and start with the Diplomacy.
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2010-02-23, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Researching Spells
All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.