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Thread: Ultimate Party Support Character
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2010-09-08, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Ultimate Party Support Character
Okay, what I'm trying to do is create the ultimate buff-bot.
To this end, I'm trying to combine the following:
DMM Chain to be combined with: GMW, Magic Vestments, other buffs as necessary
Inspire Courage, and possibly DFI
And I'm trying to figure out how to do this all with one non-gestalt character.
Bard/Cleric seems the most obvious, but doesn't really get the IC I'm wanting. Bardblade gets the IC, but doesn't get the other buffing.
I know Harmonious Knight ACF for Paladin replaces Detect Evil with IC, but only a flat +1, not advancing at all. That doesn't quite work for what I'm trying to do.
Basically, I'm wanting to give everyone a +25 to attack and damage, plus another 30 or so AC from various different sources. And be able to heal/remove negative effects.
Any ideas?SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
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2010-09-08, 06:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Here is a couple suggestions I can think of. Heartfire Fanner and Ur-priest because you just need to cram fast advancement classes into such a build.
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2010-09-08, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
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2010-09-08, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
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2010-09-08, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 07:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Yes it does, at second level. This is why most Ur-Priest builds are Urp2, even if they don't require second level spells.
Anyway, aside from the lack of the high level Cleric buffs, Divine Bard variant with Sacred Exorcist levels (if bards can qualify, which I think they can) will give you turning and the divine buff spells to use DMM Chain on. Sprinkle in some Warblade or Crusader for White Raven, just don't use so much that it keeps you from getting the best bard buff spells.Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-09-08, 07:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Divine Bard doesn't get GMW or Magic Vestments, much less any of the other buffs I'm looking for
The problem with UrPriest is the required Evil flavor, when I'm looking to make the ultimate Goody Two-Shoes who has eschewed combat for buffing the hell out of people. The other problem is that they cannot useNightsticksCracksticks to power DMM.Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-09-08 at 07:06 PM.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Ur-Priests can use Nightsticks just as well as anyone, they add to turning or rebuking IIRC.
If you're really into the "Goody Two-Shoes" and "Eschewed Combat" tropes, Apostle of Peace also has rapid cleric casting, and has easier entry requirements, plus turn undead at first level rather than second. Just make sure your DM allows you to own a holy symbol.
Edit: Apostle of Peace isn't the full Cleric list, so it lacks some of the spells you would want. Be forewarned. Still a decent list, but I'm not sure it gets GMW, which may be a dealbreaker.Last edited by Urpriest; 2010-09-08 at 07:21 PM.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-09-08, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-09-08, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Bard 1 / cleric 3 / geomancer 10 / warweaver 5 / cleric x
versitile spellcaster, extend. persist, DMM.
Now you can cast buffs to effect the whole party with any cleric buff spells.
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2010-09-08, 07:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
No, UrPriests cannot use nightsticks. They only do Turn Undead, and require, specifically, Turn Undead to use.
Where is Apostle of Peace found?
What would your initial post be in terms that someone not too familiar with optimization (i.e. me) would use? In other words, Death by Jargon strikes again!
If you do not understand what I stated in the original post, it is likely you would not be able to answer my question.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 07:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Apostle of Peace is in book of Exalted Deeds. As I mentioned in an edit to my original post, it does lack some of the spells you would want.
My copy of Libris Mortis says that Nightsticks add to turn or rebuke. Unless there's been errata?
For the full Cleric list at high levels, Rainbow Servant would help, though it would delay your Inspire Courage (but just as much as Ur-Priest or Apostle of Peace would).Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-09-08, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Rainbow Servant would only be viable if it didn't require me to spend Spells Known on them after I get it, around ECL 16...
If there was something like a Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necro with IC, that would be perfect to go with Rainbow Servant.
Honestly, the problem I'm running into is that either I get the buffs, or I get the IC. I'm trying to find something that does both.
Heck, if I just wanted the spells, there's a PrC in Faiths of Eberron which gets a bonus domain every level... tack on with Spontaneous Divine Caster so that all domain spells are on your Spells Known list for extra fun.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
HF is from Dragon #314.
As others pointed out, Ur-priest gains Rebuke Undead at 2nd level.
Also it would help if you actually looked at things before you vetoed them and here is why.
Nightstick: This black rod carved of darkly stained wood
is inset with religious symbols of various deities. Anyone who
possesses the rod and is able to turn or rebuke undead gains
four more uses of the ability per day.
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2010-09-08, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Yea, only I'd like to, yanno, do things by the rules... I could homebrew up a hybrid class in no time flat. I'm wanting to do it without rules changes.
Not a fan of Dragon Mag. More to the point, neither is the DM.
And both suggestions still fail to advance both IC and divine casting. It either does one or the other. Which screws the other's advancement.SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
What level will this character start at? Some of the more spectacular high level builds for this sort of thing require either some high level spells or several things in combination and are rather mediocre or even bad at lower levels.
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2010-09-08, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
So Fochluchan Lyrist gives full bardic spell and music progression. A bard ur-lyrist build using a medium amount of cheese (evil loremaster friend for Druidic, for example) would give you a lot of what you want. You could likely even adapt such a build to use Apostle of Peace.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
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2010-09-08, 07:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
There's an adaptation section for Ur-Priest that says the class could be refluffed to be used for worshippers of dead gods. Maybe you can use that in some way to let your DM waive the alignment restriction.
Last edited by FMArthur; 2010-09-08 at 07:59 PM.
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2010-09-08, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
A couple wasted levels are generally involved. If you look around for guides for Fochluchan Lyrist you'll find builds that can get you there with minimum waste. You won't want to take any Druid levels at all. Doing so is mildly cheesy, but your request requires some level of cheese. You probably won't have room for Crusader or Warblade, though it may be possible to replace some bard with it if you have the feats.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
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2010-09-08, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
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2010-09-08, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
I'd suggest you either put in some more information when you as for help, or do some research yourself first. Putting in 'No Dragon', or some other limits isn't that hard, but it stops us from wasting time answering your request so it can only be shot down.
If you consider the 'non-evil' Ur-priest to be not doing things by the rules, you will probably have issues with most of the stuff that will cover your request.
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2010-09-08, 08:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
You can call me Draz.
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2010-09-08, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Last edited by ShneekeyTheLost; 2010-09-08 at 08:38 PM.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2010-09-08, 09:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
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2010-09-08, 09:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
I think it's only a +1, depending how you interpret the wording in Prestige Bard.
You can do the Sacred Exorcist dip earlier in the build (and thus get DMM started sooner) if you can figure out a way to get Dismissal or Dispel Evil before you get the Rainbow Servant capstone. (Can one of the earlier Rainbow Servant levels grant those spells? Or will your DM interpret Extra Spell that way? Or are either of them just on the normal Beguiler list?)
You can use the Versatile Spellcaster early-entry trick to get started on PrCs sooner, letting you end up with more levels in them instead of Beguiler. I think it will only save you one level, though, without additional early-entry cheese, because PrBard and Virtuoso have skill-rank prereqs. So ... hmm.You can call me Draz.
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I have a number of ongoing projects that I manically jump between to spend my free time ... so don't be surprised when I post a lot about something for a few days, then burn out and abandon it.
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2010-09-08, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
The best option seems to be Fochluchan Lyrist with the most cheesy option acceptable for Evasion and Druidic, Ur-Priest (or Apostle of Peace) casting and Bard with perhaps a little Crusader thrown in.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
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2010-09-08, 09:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
Or worship The Soverign Host (Eberron) and pick up Worldly Focus. No Holy Symbol needed...
But yeah, don't want to go the Apostle of Peace route due to the restricted spell list. Ur-Priest can work, but it eats your feats, and you don't get domain access. A straightforward Cleric, using DMM(Persistent Spell), DMM(Reach Spell), and DMM(Chain Spell), and stacking Nightsticks (LOTS of Nightsticks) does quite well. Domains Planning and Undeath get you Extend Spell and a copy of Extra Turning for cheap, meaning you need just two feats for each metamagic feat you want to apply at little cost (the feat itself, plus the DMM for it). So the feat list of a Human Cleric with those two domains would look like
1: Persistent Spell
HB: Divine Metamagic(persistent Spell)
3: Reach Spell
6: Divine Metamagic(reach spell)
9: Chain Spell
12: Divine Metamagic(Chain Spell)
15: Quicken Spell
18: Divine Metamagic(Quicken Spell)
And there you go. Death ward all day for the entire party? Reach (3 turn attempts), Chain (4 turn attempts), Persist (7 turn attempts), = 14 Turn Attempts and the base Death Ward spell (a 4th level spell slot). Freedom of Movement for the entire party? Same. Fast Healing for the entire party? Mass Vigor + DMM(Persistent Spell); 7 turn attempts. +4 Resistance, resistance to mind control, SR vs. opposite-aligned spells, and a surprise for opposite-aligned critters that strike you in melee? One of the Aura spells (8th level) + DMM(Persistent Spell). Good to go.
Your wealth is spent on:
Spell Focuses
A Ring of Enduring Arcana (Complete Mage)
A Strand of Prayer Beads (two, actually - you want the Beads of Karma)
An Orange Prism Ioun Stone (for the caster level increase)
CracksticksNightsticks (Libris Mortis). Get as many of these as you can.
Also pick up a copy of Spell Compendium - it's got some crazy-useful spells, when you can make them last all day, and apply them to the entire party.Last edited by Jack_Simth; 2010-09-09 at 06:48 AM.
Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
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2010-09-08, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ultimate Party Support Character
If you use War Weaver with something like Legacy Champion, you can go beyond the normal spell level limitation...
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