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2020-08-28, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
...with nothin' but a bouncing ball?
Hehehe.
Good times.
Hoping to see something similarly stylish in the upcoming conflict.
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2020-08-28, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
I remember - think it was the last time he killed anyone.
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2020-08-28, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
You mean a bouncy ball and an 8th level spell.
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2020-08-28, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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2020-08-28, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
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2020-08-28, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
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Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Last edited by understatement; 2020-08-28 at 11:18 AM.
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2020-08-28, 11:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
For Epic Bluff to be capable of doing that the paladins would have to consider mindlessly slaughtering each other a reasonable idea.
Also I don't think Xykon ever suggested that they slaughter each other, he just threw the ball and told them there's a Symbol of Insanity inscribed on it.
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2020-08-28, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-08-28 at 11:24 AM.
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2020-08-28, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
The paladins weren't all self-righteous either. O-Chul certainly isn't, and he was there.
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2020-08-28, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Xykon told a whooping three paladins he scribbled a symbol of insanity, then the fifty who didn't hear a thing of what he just said started killing each other. The bluff hyothesis isn't plausible.
Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?
Free haiku !
Alas, poor Cookie
The world needs more platypi
I wish you could be
Originally Posted by Fyraltari
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2020-08-28, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Xykon broke a window and asked for a donation - and O-Chul responded by directing a bunch of guards to kill him, and I get the impression that O-Chul has never reflected on how disproportionate that response was - which speaks to some self-righteousness at any rate.
Wisdom is important for paladins and Listen is based on Wisdom - even if they were 100 feet away from Xykon they would only need a DC20 check to hear what he said clearly, and the room doesn't seem 100ft long, many of them could have heard him simply by taking 10 on their listen check.Last edited by dancrilis; 2020-08-28 at 12:15 PM.
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2020-08-28, 12:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
- Gender
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2020-08-28, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-28 at 12:31 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-08-28, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Would you say:
When one sees an goblin village, knowing that they are planning to harness a Gate that could blow Azure City to pieces, it is common sense to kill them before they get a chance.
It wouldn't have hurt them to take six seconds to confirm he was actually a bad guy before rolling initiative (and had he been a human, elf, dwarf etc they might have - but as you mentioned they may have judged him on his creature type alone).
Their wisdom likely does not equal Xykon's charisma.
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2020-08-28, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2018
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 12:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Are you referring to Haley bluffing? Because her bluffs did not cause swirly eyes and in fact she explicitly says that it is not a magical effect once she's used her enhanced skills to lie -- so explicitly NOT like a suggestion spell.
in the target - and the suggestion spell does result in swirly eyes.
That he scribbled a symbol of insanity on a super bouncy ball is a believable suggestion.
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2020-08-28, 12:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
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2020-08-28, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Last edited by Peelee; 2020-08-28 at 01:01 PM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2020-08-28, 12:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Even if you did make an epic Bluff check sufficient to convince all the Paladins in the room that they were under the effect of a Symbol of Insanity spell, wouldn't all the Paladins then have to make their own Knowledge, Arcana check (not a class skill for Paladins) to know what the effects of a Symbol of Insanity spell are and then act them out appropriately?
That gives you two rolls that can result in a failure of your attacks, one that gets worse for you the less competent your foes are.
Using the actual spell only gives you one point of failure for each target - a high DC Wisdom saving throw.Last edited by Jason; 2020-08-28 at 12:56 PM. Reason: Typo
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2020-08-28, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2019
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Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
It does when you have a high skill bonus and an additional +30 on top from a potion; your unsupported assertion does not agree with the rules regarding epic skill checks. Cite:
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm
Instilling a non magical suggestion effect can be done by a level 1 character with no ranks in Bluff; the rule doesn't put a limit on the attempt, it just gives a +50 bonus to sense motive to anyone attempting an opposed check to resist your bluff.
I think it's pretty clear that Haley used exactly this rule to, for example, convince a guard that they were a wallaby. It is also pretty clear this is not what Xykon did because, as mentioned, he only told about the symbol of insanity to 3 paladins, while the paladins affected by the magic were behind them and already affected.
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2020-08-28, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in Utah...
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Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
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2020-08-28, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
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2020-08-28, 02:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
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2020-08-28, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Fair.
Is he (from the presepctive of the Sapphire Guard at that time) - he decieved Shojo about his trip to Cliffport (indicating it was about Xykon where in fact it was about family business), his team drove Miko insane - one of them even having a plan of making her fall, his team claimed that they had destroyed Xykon when they had not etc.
There are reasons for the people of Azure city to be somewhat dubious about him and his Order.
I recall it being in the Epic Handbook - but I may be recalling incorrectly it has been a while.
It is also pretty clear this is not what Xykon did because, as mentioned, he only told about the symbol of insanity to 3 paladins, while the paladins affected by the magic were behind them and already affected.
Seems like a slippery slope.
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2020-08-28, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Apocalypse preventing jerks? One of them made an attempt to deliberately weaken the fabric of the universe, and a former colleague of his tried to redeem herself by actually doing so (not to mention their two allies who did the same before and after that). They were a threat to creation as it is, and as such, they got exactly what they deserved.
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2020-08-28, 02:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Remember when Xykon killed a bunch of self-righteous Paladins...
Yeah, defending the gates from an evil undead Lich is definitely Evil. They should accept the peace of the grave, exactly.
The only reason the world isn't gone now is their founder helped save it, and they are devoted to keeping the mechanism by which it was saved from being used to destroy the world or slaughter the gods. Whatever you think of their methods, their goals are literally the most lawful good you can get.
Imagine if the fusion core from Batman DKR was a natural thing, and a group built a device to house it because the radiation was leaking out and poisoning the entire world's ocean. Unfortunately it is now explosive if used as a weapon, and so you make an organization that tries to prevent people from getting that bomb. Now a group kills your operatives and is going to use the bomb, so you break it and it leaks again. Should you have let the bomb kill everyone or hope someone can make a new containment cell?