30+ New Dragons (more true dragons than the draconomicon)

[un_known]

It would be both.


I'll give you the knowledge of it for the other campaign how about that? (Yes I will be asking you to join this camapign but the main goal of this camapign is to find this realm, so you'd know a rather large amount of knowledge about it already.

I will be changing/refluffing it differently for Sea's of Madness as the gods are truly gone.

[Zaydos]

Still expect Islomere to spam knowledge skills; Arthram would... except he's bad at it (6 rolls, 1 above 10 before modifiers), even with Knowledge Devotion.

Normally I play the smart guy, Arthram's an interesting change, he's the bruiser.

Will not derail own thread.

Yeah just tell me the minimum I guess. I don't know what I'll end up working on next. For the most part I try to avoid making them too setting specific (Iron Rose was made for a specific setting I was going to start and instead rolled into "To Slay Dragons" backstory, Eclipse was made with To Slay Dragons in mind, and the other setting specific ones are the ones made years ago) so exactly how much gets used will be in question.

[Silverscale]

I might be assuming that some sort of Plane of Faerie is in use.

A perfectly reasonable assumption though it's not in the Core 3.5 cosmology I believe Faerun introduced the Faerie Realm that, much like the Ethereal and Shadow Planes, is both Coexistent and Coterminous with the Material Plane meaning that with the right spells/abilities a creature can pas from one plane ot the other with relative ease.

Coexistent because the Faerie Realm overlaps most if not all of the Material Plane, and Coterminous because there are certain places on the Material Plane where one can step from one plane to the other such as Faerie Circles.

[Zaydos]

It's also one of the variant planes suggested in Manual of the Planes. Generally if fey are given a large role it will end up existing in some form. I actually was already assuming it existed in un_known's the Sea of Shadows because he went to the trouble of naming a fey language and not just using the default Sylvan.

[un_known]

You can put together the main dragons with using the Faerun Faerie Realm basis. But if possible could you do two dragons based on these little snippets of Lore.


"The Forest of Dreams and Wonders is in fact a giant tree, once a great forest monarch that has now fallen. The inside of the tree has been devoured by new trees growing within it and within this great god-like oak a new forest has sprung to life. Large cracks in the bark let light flow down into the canopy of this Forest and from there the energy is passed downwards. The affect of such a beautiful place is that though many people on the material plane do not know it they in fact are drawn to this heart of beauty and life in their dreams. Such monumental power can in fact give birth to new and exciting things but one persons dream can be as much a nightmare to another…"



"In the darkest corner of the Forest of Dreams and Wonders lies the Vale of Nightmare and Loss. As the Forest draws dreamers to it the Vale is the epitome of nightmares, it draws sadness to it and from this overwhelming emotion uses the same power that the Forest uses to create to give birth to monstrosities of dark proportions. This place is a decaying forest of fungus and poison where the very air is dangerous enough to kill you. The creatures that have been birthed roam this forest and like scavengers feast upon the fear of unwary dreamers."



Would that be to much?

Oh and another Fey dragon idea to add to the list of normal ones a Dryadric Dragon; like a Dryad Dragon that has a tree it must protect and care for.

Edit: Was me naming a new Fey language just a little overboard in the fact that I showed there would be at least some interaction with them? Fey creautres, Underwater Giants, Spirits etcetera.... I did list a lot of languages...

[DracoDei]

Dark Cloud dragons look fine (if, like a lot of these, a bit light on memorable special abilities). Looks like they would have a really juice feud going with my Wing Dragons, since the Wing's can actually out-fly them (same maneuverability, higher speed, and I specifically gave them the ability to reach orbital altitudes if they keep it up long enough), but not outfight them. Dexterity... I would have to check between them each. Anyway, the point isn't who would win a straight-up fight, it is how rich a story one could make out of it.

[unosarta]

Dark Cloud dragons look fine (if, like a lot of these, a bit light on memorable special abilities). Looks like they would have a really juice feud going with my Wing Dragons, since the Wing's can actually out-fly them (same maneuverability, higher speed, and I specifically gave them the ability to reach orbital altitudes if they keep it up long enough), but not outfight them. Dexterity... I would have to check between them each. Anyway, the point isn't who would win a straight-up fight, it is how rich a story one could make out of it.

Nothing to say about the dragons in and of themselves, but I could see a Kobold tribe having its mythology about the sun and the moon being two primordial Dark Cloud and Wing dragons chasing each other around the earth, locked in an epic battle, constantly raging and violently attack the other. They move so fast that they can move across all of the sky in one day, and then dive down into the underworld, fighting all the while, until they find their way back up to the surface, to chase each other for another day.

In fact, this sounds like two tribes, one that worships the Primordial Wing dragon, and one that worships the Primordial Dark Cloud dragon. The Dark Cloud tribe would be nocturnal, hunting at night under the light provided by their great master, and the Wing tribe hunting in the day for the exact same reasons. They would have similar conflicts as their masters, but scaled down, obviously. Dark Cloud kobolds are used as bogeymen for the children of the Wing tribe, and visa-versa, since neither really have a way to interact with each other.

The other kobolds would likely look down on the tribes, viewing them as simpletons who worship some made up dragons, but the Kobolds know... one day, their masters will return to the earth, one victorious, and raise up their stalwart minions. They watch and wait, ready to further their masters' power at any moment.

Other than that, interesting dragons.

[Zaydos]

Also check out Electrum Dragons, slower than Dark Cloud Dragons and without improved Dex, but just as maneuverable and with Altitude Acclimation so they don't suffer the effects of altitude.

Honorary mention goes to Moon Dragons; cap out at 300-ft speed, and clumsy maneuverability but has no need to breathe, sleep, or rest, and immunity to cold; it takes them something like 6-weeks to reach the planet from the moon assuming earth-like distance of separation.

[unosarta]

Also check out Electrum Dragons, slower than Dark Cloud Dragons and without improved Dex, but just as maneuverable and with Altitude Acclimation so they don't suffer the effects of altitude.

Honorary mention goes to Moon Dragons; cap out at 300-ft speed, and clumsy maneuverability but has no need to breathe, sleep, or rest, and immunity to cold; it takes them something like 6-weeks to reach the planet from the moon assuming earth-like distance of separation.

Well, I was more going about symbolism here; the Wing dragon represents light, while the Dark Cloud represents darkness. They aren't actual dragons, flying around the earth.

Although, that would be pretty awesome.

[Zaydos]

Well I was actually just talking about flight themed dragons still.

The moon dragon just had to have honorary mention for being able to survive in vacuum and fly between the world and the moon without Spelljamming. Besides he's a good guy

Electrum just fly well and have thunder breath.

[unosarta]

Well I was actually just talking about flight themed dragons still.

The moon dragon just had to have honorary mention for being able to survive in vacuum and fly between the world and the moon without Spelljamming. Besides he's a good guy

Electrum just fly well and have thunder breath.

Ah. Well, it would be interesting for a single tribe. Alternatively, as a campaign setting where there are thousands of constellations for each true dragon.

[DracoDei]

Well, I was more going about symbolism here; the Wing dragon represents light, while the Dark Cloud represents darkness.

Which would be kinda odd since while Wing Dragons can produce some fairly intricate lighting effects (on the level of an animated neon sign to understate the case), the way that they actually FIGHT is by turning their fog breathweapon optic black and using it to get Sneak Attack damage on their foes. Combined with the fact that Dark Cloud dragons have a lightning BW means that they each fight with the OPPOSITE style as their general theme is in your mythology (not that there is anything wrong with that).
Some pointing out of some semi-obvious things about Wing Dragons follows.

Spoiler

Show

which is very nasty against MOST creatures... other True Dragons actually NOT being on the list, due to blindsight/blindsense ruining it.... Mmmm... I wonder what the pre-requisites for Darkstalker or whatever that is are?

[unosarta]

Which would be kinda odd since while Wing Dragons can produce some fairly intricate lighting effects (on the level of an animated neon sign to understate the case), the way that they actually FIGHT is by turning their fog breathweapon optic black and using it to get Sneak Attack damage on their foes. Combined with the fact that Dark Cloud dragons have a lightning BW means that they each fight with the OPPOSITE style as their general theme is in your mythology (not that there is anything wrong with that).

Actually, that really only furthers the cool for me. Sort of like a yin and yang effect. Also; lunar and solar eclipses are times when the sun and moon have gotten close enough to actually fight in the sky.

Some pointing out of some semi-obvious things about Wing Dragons follows.

Spoiler

Show

which is very nasty against MOST creatures... other True Dragons actually NOT being on the list, due to blindsight/blindsense ruining it.... Mmmm... I wonder what the pre-requisites for Darkstalker or whatever that is are?

I think all you need for darkstalker is to have sneak attack. But either way, these are the primordial dragons; they have been fighting like this for time immemorial, or at least according to the kobolds who worship them.

[Zaydos]

Blindsense doesn't stop sneak attack, and unless otherwise noted true dragon's don't have blindsight. There are no prerequisites for Darkstalker.

[Zaydos]

Nightmare Dragon
Dragon (Feykin)
Environment: Any bordering forest (plane of faerie)
Organization: Wyrmling, very young, juvenile, and young adult: solitary or clutch (2–5); adult, mature adult, old, very old, ancient, wyrm, or great wyrm: solitary, pair, or family (2-5).
Challenge Ratings: Wyrmling 1; very young 3; young 5; juvenile 7; young adult 9; adult 11; mature adult 14; old 16; very old 18; ancient 20; wyrm 21; great wyrm 23
Alignment: Always Neutral Evil
Treasure: Triple Standard.

Nightmare dragons’ blue-purple scales are an iconic sight within the Fey Courts. Their dread forms can often be found upon the shoulder of Unseelie lords as a sort of pet and familiar. These drakes are mean and hateful creatures, delighting in causing torment to humans which live near the fey lands. Occasionally they’ll flit between the fey world and this one. In our world, these dragons earn their name, giving nearby creatures horrible and twisted nightmares, reveling in our fear and terror.

Nightmare dragons avoid direct confrontation if possible, preferring to instead use controlled animals, summoned creatures, and giving nightmares life. They lurk in small lairs, crawling beneath a house’s foundations, underneath porches, and generally in hard to find places; using their native invisibility to keep from being easily found by ordinary mortals. When they grow too large for these tiny lairs, they use the homes of controlled humans, nearby caves and forests, hay lofts, preferring to lair in the mortal world where their nightmares can reach humans.

Age	Size	Hit Dice	Str	Dex	Con	Int	Wis	Cha	BAB/Grp	Atk	Fort	Ref	Will	Breath Weapon DC	Frightful Presence
Wyrmling	D	2d12+2 (15 hp)	7	14	11	16	13	16	2/-12	4	3	5	4	11	14
Very Young	T	5d12+5 (37 hp)	9	14	13	18	15	18	5/-4	6	5	6	6	13	16
Young	S	8d12+16 (68 hp)	11	14	13	20	17	20	8/4	9	6	7	9	15	19
Juvenile	S	11d12 + 22 (93 hp)	13	14	15	20	17	20	11/7	13	9	9	10	17	20
Young Adult	M	14d12+42 (133 hp)	13	14	15	22	19	22	14/15	15	11	11	13	19	23
Adult	M	17d12+68 (178 hp)	15	14	17	24	21	24	17/19	19	13	12	15	21	25
Mature Adult	M	20d12+100 (230 hp)	17	14	19	26	21	26	20/23	23	16	14	17	24	28
Old	L	23d12+115 (264 hp)	19	14	21	28	23	28	23/31	26	18	15	19	26	30
Very Old	L	26d12+156 (325 hp)	19	14	21	30	23	30	26/34	29	20	17	21	28	33
Ancient	L	29d12+174 (362 hp)	21	14	23	32	25	32	29/37	32	22	18	23	30	35
Wyrm	H	32d12+224 (432hp)	23	14	23	34	27	34	32/45	35	24	20	26	32	38
Great Wyrm	H	35d12+280 (507 hp)	25	14	25	36	29	36	35/49	39	26	21	28	34	40

Age	Speed	Init	AC	Special Abilities	SR	Caster Level
Wyrmling	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	16 (+4 size, +2 Dex)	Immunity to Compulsion, Power of Nightmares, Flit Between Worlds	-	-
Very Young	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	17 (+2 size, +2 Dex, +3 natural)	Invisibility	-	-
Young	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	19 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural)	Control Beasts	-	1st
Juvenile	60-ft, fly 100-ft (good)	+2	22 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +9 natural)	Poison the Land	-	2nd
Young Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	24 (+2 Dex, +12 natural)	DR 5/cold iron	20	4th
Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	27 (+2 Dex, +15 natural)	Nightmare Construct, Reign of Terror	22	5th
Mature Adult	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	30 (+2 Dex, +18 natural)	DR 10/cold iron	24	7th
Old	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	32 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +21 natural)	Nightmare Terrain, Dominate Person	26	9th
Very Old	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	35 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +24 natural)	DR 15/cold iron	28	11th
Ancient	60-ft, fly 150-ft (average)	+2	38 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +27 natural)	Greater Invisibility	30	13th
Wyrm	60-ft, fly 200-ft (poor)	+2	40 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +30 natural)	DR 20/cold iron	32	15th
Great Wyrm	60-ft, fly 200-ft (poor)	+2	43 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +33 natural)	Superior Invisibility, Nightmare of the Land, Improved Nightmare Construct	34	17th

Special Abilities

Breath Weapon (Su): A nightmare dragon's breath weapon is a cone of aggression gas. Any creature caught in this gas must make a Will save or is compelled to attack the nearest creature (other than the nightmare dragon) to the best of his or or her ability. This effect lasts 1 round plus an addition round for every age category of the dragon. If there is no one else to attack, the creature is stunned for 1 round. Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are also immune to this. A nightmare dragon is immune to its own breath weapon and to the breath weapon of other nightmare dragons.

Power of Nightmares (Su): Any creature sleeping within 300-ft of a nightmare dragon suffers horrible mind-twisting nightmares. These creatures are not consider to have rested during this time asleep, also they take 1 point of Wisdom damage each night they sleep within this area. Fey and other dragons are immune to this effect.

Flit Between Worlds (Su): A nightmare dragon can plane shift between the Prime and the Plane of Faerie (or whatever plane unseelie fey dwell on) once per week; this takes 1 minute and the nightmare dragon may not bring other living creatures with it. If your cosmology uses some variant means of reaching the Plane of Faerie this ability may need to be modified.

Invisibility (Su): A nightmare dragon may become invisible at-will as a standard action, and remain invisible indefinitely till it chooses to become visible (as a standard action) or attacks. A nightmare dragon’s: Power of Nightmares, Control Beasts, Poison the Land, Reign of Terror, Nightmare Terrain, and Nightmare of the Land abilities do not end this invisibility effect.

Control Beasts (Su): A nightmare dragon may take control of a number of hit dice worth of animals no greater that its hit dice within 20-ft per age category as a standard action at-will. This effect works like Dominate Animal except it can affect any number of animals (within HD limit), has a duration of concentration, and ends immediately if the animal is more than 20-ft per age category away from the nightmare dragon.

Poison the Land (Su): A nightmare dragon poisons the land around it, twisting plant life into unnatural shapes and causing the spread of fungus and carnivorous plants. This affects the land out to a mile around wherever a nightmare dragon has laired for at least 6 weeks. In an area of poisoned land a nightmare dragon gains a +2 insight bonus on Will saves.

Nightmare Construct (Sp): 3/day a nightmare dragon can create a construct out of pure nightmare. This functions as a fully augmented (for its CL) astral construct. A nightmare dragon uses twice its age category for its caster level for this effect.

Reign of Nightmares (Su): A nightmare dragon’s Power of Nightmares ability now extends 1000-ft. In addition any creature affected by the nightmare dragon’s Power of Nightmares must make a Will save (DC 14 + the dragon’s charisma modifier) or be charmed by the nightmare dragon for 24 hours.

Nightmare Terrain (Su): A nightmare dragon is continuously surrounded by an area of illusory terrain that functions as the spell Nightmare Terrain (found in Complete Mage). It may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.

Greater Invisibility (Su): A nightmare dragon’s invisibility ability now functions as greater invisibility with the same indefinite duration.

Nightmare of the Land (Su): A great wyrm nightmare dragon’s Power of Nightmares now extends 1 mile, and deals 1d6 Wisdom damage per night. In addition they may extend their Nightmare Terrain out to 1000-ft and gain the following abilities out to 1 mile: Detect presence, number, type (humanoid, fey, animal), and subtype of creatures within 1 mile; see through the eyes and hear through the ears of any animal within 1 mile (as a standard action); detect illusions within 1 mile; use its Control Beasts ability out to 1 mile; summon and control Nightmare Constructs (and Improved Nightmare Constructs) out to 1 mile.

Improved Nightmare Construct (Su): Whenever a great wyrm nightmare dragon uses its Nightmare Construct ability the created construct has the Pseudonatural template (from Lords of Madness, and I think Complete Arcane as well), in addition it has one extra special ability from list C.

Spells: A nightmare dragon casts spells as a sorcerer of the listed level.

Spell-like Abilities: 3/day: Superior Invisibility (great wyrm); 1/day: Dominate Person (old or older).

Skills: Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently are class skills for a nightmare dragon.

[Ziegander]

The Flit Between Worlds and Poison the Land abilities are so vague that they might as well not exist. The former is merely a suggestion to the DM and could rightly be placed in any of the fluff sections. The latter needs to outline what the fungus and carnivorous plants do mechanically to effect the land. If nothing, then this also doesn't belong on the table and can be added to the fluff of the dragon's entry.

[Zaydos]

Game mechanically Poison of the Land is just a +2 Insight bonus to Will saves in an area they've been in for at least 6 weeks; the fungus and carnivorous plants are mostly fluff but that last is the game mechanic reason for it being on the table; the other, well there is no fully official "Plane of Faerie" the Manual of the Planes suggests one as a variant, but the ways to get from it vary in every game and so I can't make an all-encompassing rule but at the same time if I left it purely fluff there would be complaints that they have no crunch way to do it.

[Zeofar]

Don't have much to say mechanically since I haven't looked at them in depth, but I gotta say it: this is an absolutely awesome thread. Thank you.

[Debihuman]

Flit Between Worlds could simply be a plane shift spell that allows the dragon and up to eight companions to travel between the Prime and the Faerie Plane. [Note that the plane shift shift spell only allows up to 8 companions so this should reflect that]. Easy peasy

Debby

[Ziegander]

Flit Between Worlds could simply be a plane shift spell that allows the dragon and up to eight companions to travel between the Prime and the Faerie Plane. [Note that the plane shift shift spell only allows up to 8 companions so this should reflect that]. Easy peasy

Debby

That's basically what I was thinking. See, as it is, even though it's in the table there's still "no crunch way to do it," because you don't offer any crunch. You just say that the they "should have some ability."

[Zaydos]

Edited, better?

[Ziegander]

Yeah, that works much better.

[Debihuman]

Breath Weapon (Su): A nightmare dragon has a single type of breath weapon; a cone of aggression gas. Any creature caught in this gas must make a Will save or for the next 1 + age category rounds they must attack the nearest creature, other than the nightmare dragon, to the best of their ability to directly deal damage to that creature (spellcasters will use fireball over solid fog for example). A nightmare dragon is immune to its own breath and that of other nightmare dragons.

This is worded a bit awkwardly. What happens if there isn't a "nearest creature?" Also, creatures immune to mind-affecting effects should also be immune to this.


Breath Weapon (Su): A nightmare dragon's breath weapon is a cone of aggression gas. Any creature caught in this gas must make a Will save or is compelled to attack the nearest creature (other than the nightmare dragon) to the best of his or or her ability. This effect lasts 1 round plus an additional round for every age category of the dragon. If there is no one else to attack, the creature is Stunned for 1 round. Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are also immune to this. A nightmare dragon is immune to its own breath weapon and to the breath weapon of other nightmare dragons.

What do you think?
Debby

[Zaydos]

This is worded a bit awkwardly. What happens if there isn't a "nearest creature?" Also, creatures immune to mind-affecting effects should also be immune to this.


Breath Weapon (Su): A nightmare dragon's breath weapon is a cone of aggression gas. Any creature caught in this gas must make a Will save or is compelled to attack the nearest creature (other than the nightmare dragon) to the best of his or or her ability. This effect lasts 1 round plus an additional round for every age category of the dragon. If there is no one else to attack, the creature is Stunned for 1 round. Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are also immune to this. A nightmare dragon is immune to its own breath weapon and to the breath weapon of other nightmare dragons.

Debby

I forgot the mind-affecting tag. I think I'll just use your version though because it was better written, and I like the idea of 1 round of stun when it would otherwise do nothing.

[Debihuman]

Did you ever fully write up the Feykin Subtype? I can't seem to find it.

Debby

[Zaydos]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=201

It's a short write-up, not quite as long as dragonblooded.

[un_known]

I like the Nightmare Dragon. Makes me happy...

So what do you think of Dryad-like Dragon? A dragon that has a tree it is connected to and its abilities are about caring for it and protecting it. Possibly incorperate the dragon being able to sing (Song abilities) to the tree because tree's like singing... Also being able to move the tree from forest to forest?

[DracoDei]

Better be a bristle-cone pine-tree... or maybe a red-wood (but those have to grow together, because they require intertwined roots for stability)?

[Zaydos]

Better be a bristle-cone pine-tree... or maybe a red-wood (but those have to grow together, because they require intertwined roots for stability)?

I hadn't heard that; I've seen a stunted giant redwood (I live on the east coast and not next to the sea; the climate is completely wrong so that it can't grow very big) all alone but I don't know about ones that actually reach their true height. There's also the Giant Sequoia which can get bigger than Giant Redwoods in terms of volume, and the Dawn Redwood which only grow to around 200-ft (and is also a living fossil unchanged since I believe the cretaceous). Though only bristlecone pines really live as long as dragons.

Sorry; I'm a bit of a plant geek at times.

[un_known]

Do you say yes to the idea though?