Splitting up Leadership (3.5 Feat Chain, PEACH)

[Kane0]

Hello again everyone.

My group just played through a one-shot and we nearly destroyed the whole thing on the poor DM though the use of Leadership. Which isnt really out of the ordinary for Leadership, come to think about it. Anyway the DM asked me to prep some changes to Leadership for future use in case this comes up again.

Leadership
Prerequisite: Level 4
You gain a number of followers equal to your Level + charisma modifier. All followers are commoners of an ECL no higher than your Level/3 (minimum 1).

Follower Training
Prerequisites: Leadership, Level 8
All your followers gain the Elite stat array if they did not already possess it and can trade any levels of commoner for equal levels in adept, expert and/or warrior.

Cohort
Prerequisites: Leadership, Follower Training, Level 12
One of your followers rises to become a Cohort (and a new follower takes his old position). Your cohort trades all NPC class levels for appropriate PC class levels, though their total ECL cannot exceed your level -4. Your Cohort aids you in organizing your followers and can aid you in adventures.
Class and build choices are subject to DM approval.


So there we go. I think I'm forgetting something though.

[anacalgion]

I mean, it helps I guess, but here's the real issue. It's three feats for another character, and even if its a weak one its still an extra character. Honestly I'd say just ban leadership. It's basically a broken concept, and it'll be really tricky to make it balanced to the point where it's worth taking sometimes but not absolute trash.

[Arcanist]

Leadership
Prerequisite: Level 4
You gain a number of followers equal to your level + charisma modifier. All followers are commoners of a level no higher than your level/3 (minimum 1).

Class level you say? Certainly you mean ECL, right? I wouldn't want a Half-Fiend, Half-Celestial, Half-Dragon (Yes), Phrenic, Vampire Commoner 5 on my party... It would ruin balance...

Cohort
Prerequisites: Leadership, Follower Training, level 12
One of your followers rises to become a Cohort (and a new follower takes his old position). Your cohort trades all NPC class levels for PC class levels equal to your level -4. Your Cohort aids you in organizing your followers and can aid you in adventures.
Class and build choices are subject to DM approval.

See above, except worse because now they can have actual PC class levels!

Just change it to ECL and we're golden

[Kane0]

Just change it to ECL and we're golden

Noted and changed, cheers!

I mean, it helps I guess, but here's the real issue. It's three feats for another character, and even if its a weak one its still an extra character. Honestly I'd say just ban leadership. It's basically a broken concept, and it'll be really tricky to make it balanced to the point where it's worth taking sometimes but not absolute trash.

There would be other factors involved. He would be operating off NPC WBL if he wasnt using yours and his loyalty/time isnt the same as most of the party. He acts more loke a hireling than another pc and will always be behind in levels. Those three feats mean at level 12 you can get more actions per round but you also have to pay for that.

I suppose what i'm trying to say is that this doesnt fix the leaderahip problem altogether, since your right about it being so difficult to balance and better off removed. It simply makes it simpler to use and easier to deal with in a game.