Hobbit incoming!!!

[Hopeless]

So somewhat embarassing question but

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speaking as an utter Archnaphobic do they get to the giant spiders in Mirkwood in this one

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Yes and if it helps Radagast the Brown also doesn't like them but necromancer scares him even more!

Hope that helps!

[Hopeless]

Middle Earth just does not really have that kind of magic. Even Morgoth doesn't do much of it. He mutates creatures, he has a singing duel that generates enough despair in his opponent that he gives up, he raises a fortress and he curses the line of Hurin. He never threw a single fireball.

So you're saying Morgoth was a type of Bard?

[Hopeless]

That's the issue. Everyone makes him out to be such a great wizard.

He is wise yes. But the people are also supposed to be respectful and fearful of him for his prowess as a wizard, yet we rarely ever see him use magic. You could take away the wizard part and make him some smart-talking hamster and I think the effect would still be the same.

So what exactly distinguishes him from say, some long-lived sage?

I still remember how anticlimatic it was when in the first film, when Gandalf was fighting the balor, he simply used his weapons to smash the ground below him (somehow, the trailer made his shouting 'You shall not pass!' sound like him chanting some arcane spell).

I thought he bound the creature so it couldn't fly or use its varied and terrible abilities like wipe the rest of the fellowship out in a heartbeat, well thats what i thought Balor's could do...the bit about him falling down the same chasm and pretty much beating the fiery creature until it hit the water and became the bedraggled creature before he chased it back up the interior of the mountain before killing it and then seemingly dying... I'd call that epic don't know about you!

Maybe he took a few too many levels of fighter along the way...

[Hopeless]

Yeah. This is kind of my impression. It's a much more subtle, old-world magic born of superstition and nature worship. The sort of thing people believed in before Hollywood discovered special effects.

Which, of course, limits Gandalf in what he can do to directly enforce his own influence. You're going to see things based on belief systems rather than spell formulae. Any modern-day, half competent sorcerer's apprentice should be able to disintegrate Gandalf's head.

I know that's not what the character is supposed to be about. But for a godlike being descended from a higher plane, he doesn't seem as formidable as fanboys like to describe.

Disintregrate's a Fortitude save and given what he did to the Balor or how he snuck inside the mountain to rescue the dwarves before helping to fight their way out kind of indicates he would have not just past it but probably would have slapped it straight back unless he wanted to smack the unfortunate around the head first!

[snoopy13a]

So you're saying Morgoth was a type of Bard?

In a way he was. Alternatively, song in The Silmarillion could be a metaphor.

Sauron is also a master of song. He and Finrod had a sing-off--which Sauron won. But all was not lost; although Finrod is slain, Huan--the talking dog--rescues Beren from Wolf-Sauron. Yes, before The Lord of the Rings becomes The Lord the Rings, he is defeated by a dog

Perhaps Sauron should have tried defeating Huan through song instead of changing into a wolf? Granted, Huan could talk, but could he sing?

It's too bad that Huan dies later. Otherwise, The Lord of the Rings would have been simple. Frodo could have simply rode Huan into Mordor and Huan would have whupped everyone--including Sauron.

[Hopeless]

In a way he was. Alternatively, song in The Silmarillion could be a metaphor.

Sauron is also a master of song. He and Finrod had a sing-off--which Sauron won. But all was not lost; although Finrod is slain, Huan--the talking dog--rescues Beren from Wolf-Sauron. Yes, before The Lord of the Rings becomes The Lord the Rings, he is defeated by a dog

Perhaps Sauron should have tried defeating Huan through song instead of changing into a wolf? Granted, Huan could talk, but could he sing?

It's too bad that Huan dies later. Otherwise, The Lord of the Rings would have been simple. Frodo could have simply rode Huan into Mordor and Huan would have whupped everyone--including Sauron.

What if someone persuades Peter Jackson to turn his sights on that next?

[snoopy13a]

What if someone persuades Peter Jackson to turn his sights on that next?

He'll probably never get a chance. Tolkien's family still holds the movie rights to The Simarillion. The current decision-makers aren't fans of the movies. Until more receptive people are running the Tolkien Estate, no movies based off of The Simarillion will be made.

[oblivion6]

Who holds the right to the books of David Eddings? PJ could try his hand at the Belgariad and the Mallorean

[Corvus]

Sauron is also a master of song. He and Finrod had a sing-off--which Sauron won. But all was not lost; although Finrod is slain, Huan--the talking dog--rescues Beren from Wolf-Sauron. Yes, before The Lord of the Rings becomes The Lord the Rings, he is defeated by a dog

Technically Huan isn't a dog - he is The Dog. The size of a small horse, he was a wolfhoud of Valinor and was given to Celegorm by Orome, the Hunter. He was a badass prophesided never to die until he faced the greatest wolf that ever lived.

[turkishproverb]

Who holds the right to the books of David Eddings? PJ could try his hand at the Belgariad and the Mallorean

Actually, since he seems to think he has to milk middle earth for all it's worth, but can't get mroe tolkien, shouldn't he be going for The Iron Tower Trilogy and The Silver Call?

[Corvus]

The Hobbit is off to a great start - the highest ever December opening day (at $37.5 million.)

Seems to be a disconnect between critics and audiences (but that is hardly new)

[Hopeless]

The Hobbit is off to a great start - the highest ever December opening day (at $37.5 million.)

Seems to be a disconnect between critics and audiences (but that is hardly new)

Well given this is the first movie I'd actually like to see more than once in a cinema I suspect thats just the start!

Not so sure about the critics though, have they actually read the Hobbit or are they basing their reviews on what they saw in the Lord of the Rings I am assuming they actually read, listened or saw anything Middle Earth related for that matter?

[Traab]

Actually, since he seems to think he has to milk middle earth for all it's worth, but can't get mroe tolkien, shouldn't he be going for The Iron Tower Trilogy and The Silver Call?

Ugh, I like the iron tower, but that ripoff of a novel never should have seen the light of day. God allmighty, I was able to overlook the similarities with the various races, changes were there and it was more an influence than a source. But then they went into kraggen cor when the mysterious creature in the black lake outside the secret door attacked them, and it was such a total and complete ripoff that it made me want to tear my hair out. How the HELL did that make it past the editor? He stepped way past the line of influenced by and went straight into ripoff territory. Thank god he stepped back again after that and returned to influenced by.

The Belgariad would be awesome though. A full and massive series with all the trimmings and tropes that make fantasy great. If it was a success, then there is the mallorean, and after that the elenium and tamuli. He could spend the next 3 decades working through those series.

[snoopy13a]

Well given this is the first movie I'd actually like to see more than once in a cinema I suspect thats just the start!

Not so sure about the critics though, have they actually read the Hobbit or are they basing their reviews on what they saw in the Lord of the Rings I am assuming they actually read, listened or saw anything Middle Earth related for that matter?

Some have read The Hobbit, maybe about half. A common complaint from those who have read The Hobbit is a perceived disconnect from the movie and the children's book it is based on. Rotten Tomatoes gives a 65% critic approval score (on that site, it means good but not great), but some of the "positive" review are lukewarm. The critics are across the board in their reviews.

[Tvtyrant]

I think this movie would have been better served as a mini-series.

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Here me out! The movie is cut into a few rather large breaking points, with what comes before and what comes after different enough that you could simply split it into episodes.

Up through the trolls: Episode 1.
Up until they get to Rivendale: Episode 2.
Goblin caves up to Gandalf jumping in: Episode 3.
Up until end of movie: Episode 4.

Not sure they are equally long, but those were so clearly marked out in tone from each other that I felt that they should be separate while I was watching them.

I also have a complaint!:

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Ragamuffin the Brown would have been better as a serious character. No beards nest on head, no derp eyes, no looking confused constantly. I would have loved the rabbit chariot/sled if they had taken his character more seriously; here is a man who lives a strange and wonderous life.

[Ragnar Lodbroke]

SmartAlec: You are right; I had forgotten about that. Thanks for pointing it out, my bad
I was reading the Silmarillion again, and found that part of the story.

That being said, they could have tried to make it less obvious.

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And by God, did they have to include the mushroom comment?? It felt so out of place.... It was so Jar Jar.
Why in the world did they make Christopher Lee say that?

He has killed people you know.

Tvtyrant: In my opinion, this movie could have been split into two very awesome movies: One of them would be the classic "The Hobbit"; the other one would be centered in the White council and the fight on Dol Guldur.

I'd like to see more of Elrond, Galadriel and Saruman; and in that movie they would get much more screen time (With Gandalf being mostly away, babysitting Thorin & Company).

I just don't think there is enough material for a miniseries here.


Now, the Silmarillion.... there is no way to put that into a movie. It's just too long. It would end up with more cuts than a Count of Monte Cristo adaptation (It has always bothered me the way that characters are erased in most Count of Monte Cristo adaptations).

I think the Silmarillion would be one awesome miniseries. I'd love it.

But I am already imagining the groans: "Oh, no, NOT ANOTHER ELF!" "That elf is just like the other one!" "When is the Dragon going to kill everyone?"

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"Are the Elf and Sauron singing? When did this become Tenacious D?"

"TURIN!!!! NOT WITH YOUR SISTER!!!!!! WAIT!! Oh well, that's it. Worst.Hero.Ever."

[Eldan]

So you're saying Morgoth was a type of Bard?

It's based on Nordic and Saxon and some Finnish mythology. Of course singers are crazy powerful. The Valar sang the world into existence. Music is magic, and they are all able singers.

[Ragnar Lodbroke]

It's based on Nordic and Saxon and some Finnish mythology. Of course singers are crazy powerful. The Valar sang the world into existence. Music is magic, and they are all able singers.

Yep. Luthien's Magic is mostly song-based, and if I'm not mistaken is one of the most powerful magical displays of a non-Power character in the entire LORT mithology.

[Squark]

My Comments

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1) The opening exposition: I, personally, loved it. It felt very epic-ish- that is, it felt like we were being told about the beginning of an epic. I admit, though, that the parts back in the shire felt rather drawn out- On the other hand, I do feel the tie in back to the Lord of the Rings here was a good idea. I wish it was shorter, but I don't know where to actually cut it.

2) The party scene was wonderful. I recall liking how quasi-magical the dwarves seemed when I first read the Hobbit, and I think this did a reasonable job, although I think fitting in the bit where Bilbo hastily invited Gandalf to tea might have made him seem less of a jerk there.

3) I felt the scene with the trolls was very well done. You get some moments for the Dwarves to do some fighting (I personally thought they were doing a fairly good job before Bilbo got captured), plant the seeds of Thoren's frustation with Bilbo, and also get to show Bilbo developing the silver tongue he'll use in the conversation with Smaug.

4) Azog. I'm torn here. On the one hand, I feel the goal here is obvious; Azog is supposed to be the villian who ties all three films together. And, admittedly, the Hobbit can be a bit episodic, so keeping a threat at the Dwarves' heels isn't a horrible change, at my opinion. I reserve judgement until the later films.

5) Radghast. I found Radghast somewhat poorly executed. I wish he'd seemed more eldritch, aloof and mysterious, instead of goofy. He is, at the end of the day, an archangel after all. The CGI animals were somewhat jarring here.

6) The White Council: I was in the bathroom at the beginning of this, but my personal feelings are this is a setup for the second films conflict. I do wish Sauroman had felt less boneheaded; If he's supposed to be plotting arround here, find some way to convey that, but as is, he just came off as foolish. His title was "The Wise" (Well, among others), for crying out loud!

7) The Stone Giants: Yes, they were mostly implied threats in the novel. But that doesn't work in a movie, I feel. If you talk about Stone Giants, I want to see them, and I suspect a lot of other people would have felt the same way if they were just mentioned off hand.

8) Bilbo departing scene: I think this was a good idea. Bilbo's going to be carrying us through 2-3 films- He needs some character development It's very trope-esque, but I felt it was well executed.

9) The goblins: In hindsight, I can notice that they were all CGI, but not knowing that going in it didn't really cross my mind. Execution wise, I feel the goblin king's fight with Gandalf should have been more drawn out.

10) Finding the ring: Thinking about it, yeah, it should have just been found randomly. Also, Bilbo's internal monologue felt missing here, although the point where he actualyl asks the question, "What have I got in my pocket," worked well. I really, really, really wish they had cut away from this scene at one point. I have no real fondness for riddles, and I know far more than that. We don't need to see all the riddles exchanged, but there should be an idea of there being many of them, and giving Bilbo's mind time to wander.

11) The Final scene: I felt this was really well done, for the most part. Honestly, my biggest issues here were the fact that the Chief Warg didn't lose his ear like he did in the book, and that, for the sake of those who haven't read the books, we didn't get an explanation of why the Eagles come when called. Because if I didn't know this was just Gandalf calling in a debt, I'd be wandering why the Eagles just came simply when called but didn't stick around.

Overall: I enjoyed myself a lot. I went in expecting the film to be somewhat slow paced, so there's that. Didn't notice any motion sickness issues on my very motion sickness prone mother, though I'm not sure what the fps was (We did not see it in 3D). I personally love the idea of weaving more of the surrounding world into the narrative, but I suspect that's going to be a controversial issue. I almost feel like Peter Jackson wanted to tell a seperate story here about Gandalf, but only had the rights to make movies that were under the title, "The Hobbit," and starred Bilbo. Definately looking forward to the next film; They're building up to the appearance of the Necromancer in the next film- Actually, that's one issue here. This felt a bit like a multi-part TV special that would have been shown 1 part a day. Not necessarily a bad thing on it's own, but it's atypical for a film and somewhat jarring to some people.

[TheEmerged]

Saw it today, and loved it. It struck me that Peter Jackson might be overcompensating for the complaints about taking too much out of LotR by adding things to this story, but I'm okay with that if he can keep this quality up.

In particular, I feel that they did a good job capturing the fact that The Hobbit is a more whimsical, boisterous tale than LotR.

I don't get the complaints about it being overlong. That was perhaps the shortest three hours I've experienced in years. The only real basis I can see is saying that they should have done the Hobbit in one movie the same as the other three books. The problem with that complaint, I feel, is that frankly there's more story to The Hobbit than any one of the other three (again, in my opinion).

[Squark]

On the topic of dwarf incompetency: I don't see it- If anything, the dwarves here are more competant than in the novel- These dwarves didn't get caught by the Trolls by wandering in one by one, after all. And as for the goblin fight- Well, the thing is, they all did get out relatively unscathed. Up until the big climactic battle at the end, none of the dwarves come out with any long term injuries.

[Runestar]

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Regarding the eagles, I am amazed they came as quickly as they did. I assumed Gandalf used the butterfly to summon them, but I would assume such a feat would take hours, unless the eagles were given orders to follow them from up in the sky and render aid when required.

That's an interesting disconnect I always find in comics and films. They are somehow always able to zip halfway around the globe in minutes and arrive always in the nick of time.

[oblivion6]

I think I'm gonna go watch it tomorrow. Cant wait!

Where does the first movie leave off?

[Dienekes]

There already was a specific goblin leader in the books at the Battle of the Five Armies: Bog, son of Azog. (Azog being the one who started the whole War between Dwarves and Goblins thing.)

Hmm true, but I can see why they'd changed it. Having it be Azog adds some direct weight to the confrontation between him and Thorin, as well as removes the need for "Azog was my father!" exposition. As far as changes go, that doesn't really bother me.

Also, Galadriel... sheesh. My eyes felt unworthy.

I have to admit, when we see Galadriel slowly turn for the first time with her dress flowing all around her, my first thought was "If you take a step in literally any direction you are going to trip. That was silly, lady."

[SaintRidley]

Watched it today. Very enjoyable.

[Muz]

Did anyone notice that Glamdring and Orcrist didn't glow? Could've sworn they did in the book. Sting glowed. F/X bumble?

[SmartAlec]

Did anyone notice that Glamdring and Orcrist didn't glow? Could've sworn they did in the book. Sting glowed. F/X bumble?

In the book, they did glow. But Glamdring has already been established as not glowing in the Lord of the Rings movies; Jackson said that he wanted to keep the glowing effect limited to Sting only, as 'he didn't want it to look like Star Wars, with lightsabers'.

I guess he had a point?

[Laura Eternata]

I thought I saw Orcrist glow a little bit in Goblin Town.

Anyway, I saw it the other night and adored it. It wasn't perfect - I thought the bunny sleigh was stupid, I didn't like the CG orcs replacing the disgusting makeup ones from the Trilogy, Goblin Town was too cartoony, and the dwarves were more effective fighters than the entire Fellowship - but I still really enjoyed it. The acting was superb all around, and the sets (the ones that weren't full of CGI) were as beautiful as they were ten years ago.

(Big spoilers for this movie as well as the book)

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What I liked most about it, though, was that it serves as as a bridge between The Hobbit book's world and the Middle Earth we saw in Lord of the Rings. Since Tolkien hadn't planned out the Rings trilogy when writing The Hobbit, there was a drastic change in tone between books. Middle Earth went from being a fairly happy place where 'adventures' are common and elves are happy and magic rings are novelties to a pretty grimdark place, especially when it was portrayed in the films. With The Hobbit movie, we actually see that happy-go-lucky world changing with the return of Sauron without being full on Warhammer yet. Dwarves can still have impromptu song and dance numbers and Gandalf can still snap off sassy one liners, but the hints of darkness are definitely creeping in. I have a feeling that the next two movies will get darker in tone, culminating in Thorin's death at the end of The Battle of Five Armies to bridge the gap in tones. This series honestly feels more like the end of an age than Return of the King ever did.

So yeah, I liked it a lot.

[Muz]

In the book, they did glow. But Glamdring has already been established as not glowing in the Lord of the Rings movies; Jackson said that he wanted to keep the glowing effect limited to Sting only, as 'he didn't want it to look like Star Wars, with lightsabers'.

I guess he had a point?

I can see the point about the lightsabers, I suppose. Though I really thought Glamdring glowed in Moria, but I haven't seen it in a while...

I keep seeing people complain about the CG orcs, but I confess I didn't notice any problems at all.

[Mutant Sheep]

Hmm true, but I can see why they'd changed it. Having it be Azog adds some direct weight to the confrontation between him and Thorin, as well as removes the need for "Azog was my father!" exposition. As far as changes go, that doesn't really bother me.



I have to admit, when we see Galadriel slowly turn for the first time with her dress flowing all around her, my first thought was "If you take a step in literally any direction you are going to trip. That was silly, lady."

im sure we'll still get Bolg to go "You killed my father. Prepare to die", and be all half-troll looking and 8feet tall and stuff.

I can see the point about the lightsabers, I suppose. Though I really thought Glamdring glowed in Moria, but I haven't seen it in a while...

I keep seeing people complain about the CG orcs, but I confess I didn't notice any problems at all.

His staff did the glowstick flashorb thing at least.

Well, it'll make the behind the scenes interviews with the crew less interestimg. But I didnt see any glaring issues in trailers except in the escape from Goblin town bridgerun. (And personally, i hated how the orcs looked in Rotk. Fellowship orcs were beautifully slimy and the 'Moria maggots' were beautifully done. Mordor orcs were... Dry. Even the Urukhai changed from fellowhip to Towers. I dunno. Rant about how more orcs should have looked like the one in Palintir-Shire?)