Favorite old-school RPG's and why.

[Kish]

Okay, dude? In response to the information that your phrasing was confusing, you rephrased it with no greater clarity.

Do you mean "came out on or before the day the Playstation 1 was released" (which cuts out most Playstation 1 games) or do you mean "came out before the Playstation 2 was released"? Or something else (and if something else, what?)?

[Hunter Noventa]

Okay, dude? In response to the information that your phrasing was confusing, you rephrased it with no greater clarity.

Do you mean "came out on or before the day the Playstation 1 was released" (which cuts out most Playstation 1 games) or do you mean "came out before the Playstation 2 was released"? Or something else (and if something else, what?)?

I think he just means games that have an old-school look and feel to them. Just look at how different FF9, FF10, FF12 and FF13 are from each other. FF9 is definitely old school, but from then on the games lose some of that old-school openness and fun, becoming more linear and cinematic-driven.

[danzibr]

Okay, dude? In response to the information that your phrasing was confusing, you rephrased it with no greater clarity.

Do you mean "came out on or before the day the Playstation 1 was released" (which cuts out most Playstation 1 games) or do you mean "came out before the Playstation 2 was released"? Or something else (and if something else, what?)?

Oh I see... when I said things like "up to and including the original PlayStation" and "PS or earlier" and then proceeded to list games which actually were for the PlayStation, such as Breath of Fire III and Suikoden II (which didn't come out day 1), I thought it was clear that the cutoff wasn't the day the PlayStation 1 was released. My apologies for confusing you.

I think he just means games that have an old-school look and feel to them. Just look at how different FF9, FF10, FF12 and FF13 are from each other. FF9 is definitely old school, but from then on the games lose some of that old-school openness and fun, becoming more linear and cinematic-driven.

Yeah, this. I mean really, I just threw out that condition kind of arbitrarily. There are modern games with retro feels.

[Kish]

Agh. All right, I'll give up on actually getting an distinct cut-off point; be aware that, while I can't speak for anyone else, this does mean next time someone like Winthur posts with something that came out two years ago and you protest, I'll just shrug.

[danzibr]

Agh. All right, I'll give up on actually getting an distinct cut-off point; be aware that, while I can't speak for anyone else, this does mean next time someone like Winthur posts with something that came out two years ago and you protest, I'll just shrug.

Shrug if you will. But Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 came out more than 10 years later than anything I mentioned. I reread the OP and I see there's quite a large gray area, but... I believe my initial protest of Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 was reasonable. And, as I said earlier, the actual cutoff isn't important. It's that old feel (which of course is subjective).

But uhh, if people want a concrete cutoff, prior to 2000 (so up to and including December 31, 1999, but January 1, 2000 is no good) sounds about right.

[Winthur]

Guys, I thought we've already established that my first post was a joke. I thought at least Kish, who is already hitting on me in this thread, and has already correctly identified my first post as a joke, wouldn't be making a fuss about it and seriously thinking that. It's been three pages into the thread, we can forget about that already.

I guess my jokepost was already foreshadowing the outcome of this thread, though. What is a classic oldschool game and to whom? VtM:B is amazing, but came out at roughly the same time as HL2 and has more of an action game vibe. Heroine's Quest is a very recent game, but in spirit and execution it's a very direct Quest for Glory homage. Paper Sorcerer is a more modern take on Wizardry IV and Dark Spire is a Wizardry I-V clone; are they more oldschool than Baldur's Gate, which codified certain Bioware tropes and became one of the most coveted and emulated games of its genre, with its focus on companions and romances, but came out much, much earlier?

What about Gothic? In its design it seems like it was trying to make a playable Ultima IX, and the developers have said something to that effect, too. What about Wizardry 8?

Do we only want to talk about old games, or new games that are like old games too? But then, there'd be a much bigger gray area and we'd have Might & Magic X (a fairly niche game and a throwback to the Xeen games) debated in the same breath as Pillars of Eternity (big production by Obsidian that lives off of the very often used RTWP mode).

[danzibr]

Guys, I thought we've already established that my first post was a joke. I thought at least Kish, who is already hitting on me in this thread, and has already correctly identified my first post as a joke, wouldn't be making a fuss about it.

I guess my jokepost was already foreshadowing the outcome of this thread, though. What is a classic oldschool game and to whom? VtM:B is amazing, but came out at roughly the same time as HL2 and has more of an action game vibe. Heroine's Quest is a very recent game, but in spirit and execution it's a very direct Quest for Glory homage. Paper Sorcerer is a more modern take on Wizardry IV and Dark Spire is a Wizardry I-V clone; are they more oldschool than Baldur's Gate, which codified certain Bioware tropes and became one of the most coveted and emulated games of its genre, with its focus on companions and romances, but came out much, much earlier?

What about Gothic? In its design it seems like it was trying to make a playable Ultima IX, and the developers have said something to that effect, too. What about Wizardry 8?

Do we only want to talk about old games, or new games that are like old games too?

I'd like to hear about new games that are like old games, too (mentioned that a little recently).

Speaking of which, Mighty No 9 just came out! Need to download it. Not an RPG by any means, but looking forward to it.

[Winthur]

I'd like to hear about new games that are like old games, too (mentioned that a little recently).

Speaking of which, Mighty No 9 just came out! Need to download it. Not an RPG by any means, but looking forward to it.

Well then, I'll allow myself to hint that there's a fairly strong momentum in the Japanese gaming industry with games that are basically just clones of Wizardry I-V's concept, like the Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Lands, and, more recently, Etrian Odyssey 3 or Dark Spire. EO3 even has a map that you have to draw and dot yourself, like you would on a graph paper in no automap games.

The Mystery Dungeon games are like console roguelikes in many ways, too.

Bottom line is, a Nintendo DS - even an old one - seems like a steal for classic dungeon crawler fans looking for new outlets.

Oh, and speaking of mobile gaming - there exists an Android port/remaster of Star Control II (1992), a game quoted as having inspired Mass Effect's concept, called Ur-Quan Masters. You might want to check it out.

Another game I'm fond of mostly because of my brother's long sessions of it is Mordor: The Depths of Dejenol. A great game for numbercrunchers and fans of multiclassing, but it's hellishly difficult and like many roguelikes, neither my brother and I have beaten it or aren't even aware if it's even possible. My brother's best party teleported itself into a wall and stuck there for centuries. It even has a nice soundtrack. The main problem is, Decklin, the author and the owner of the distribution website Decklin's Domain, still demands a fairly steep price for his old and no longer updated game that not many people play (like 30$ or so); sequels like Demise have been made (but I didn't like them) and can be gotten for less than the original's price. I can mostly recommend it as a curiosity, because it's just not very accessible, both due to price and difficulty. For like 3 bucks you can have the first six M&M games in comparison, and as this thread shows, M&M is super-recommendable.

[danzibr]

Oh man. Played the hell out of Star Control II. Loved it. I follow the Ur-Quan Masters forum.

And it's great to hear that in Japan they're cloning those old games. It's like... more of the same, but different. Gives me something to do other than play the old ones over and over. Thanks!

[tensai_oni]

System Shock 1 and 2 are both great cyberpunk horrors. Full of puzzles and fighting for survival, both titles have a great atmosphere that really makes you feel like a rat trapped in a maze by a cruel omnipresent AI.

But these titles are well known so instead I will bring something more obscure.

Seiken Densetsu III is a Japan-only (unless fan translations count) sequel to Secret of Mana. Just like SoM it has a colorful, vibrant world and fun gameplay. But atop of that it also has you pick three out of six possible protagonists - and depending on who is the main character and who you pick as the two others, the story will be a little different. Also the characters while not very deep are fun and likeable.

Anvil of Dawn is a classic dungeon crawler with large levels full of enemies to defeat and puzzles to solve. Where it shines is its atmosphere and setting: the game's lore is quite unique and it shows. The atmosphere, the art design and the music are all really good, and the various creatures you fight (or sometimes talk to) are very interesting and non-standard.

[factotum]

I'd like to hear about new games that are like old games, too (mentioned that a little recently).

Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, and Divinity: Original Sin would all fit there, I think; they're all isometric (ish) RPGs where you control a party of characters. In terms of quality I'd personally put D:OS top, W2 in the middle and PoE at the bottom, but that doesn't make PoE a *bad* game, it just means the other two out-awesome it.

[tensai_oni]

And here's one more.

Lufia 2 starts unassuming, with a simple plot and characters that take it as seriously as if they were players in a beer and pretzels campaign. But somewhere along the way, you realize you started to really care for them. And then, emotional moments start hitting you like a bag of bricks. Also it's a puzzle game as much as an RPG for people who like this kind of thing, with a heavy focus on overcoming obstables using tools at your disposal. Not unlike Legend of Zelda, there's even a hookshot.

[Black Socks]

I don't know exactly how old it is, but I really like the Fighting Fantasy RPG. Extremely simple to learn, but as open as D&D (in terms of what kind of game you can run).

[Rodin]

This thread got me to go back and play Ultima Underworld again. I remain shocked that this game predated Wolfenstein 3D, and one little detail that stood out that I didn't catch when I was a kid: The rivers in the game have currents. The water enters from one side of the map, and flows downhill. If you're swimming with the current, swimming is easy. Swimming against the current SUCKS, and increases likelihood of drowning.

Again: Pre-Wolfenstein.

It did also make me appreciative of modern innovations that I don't normally notice, such as standardized controls. Left-click grab, right-click use. The number of potions I've accidentally drunk as I left-click to try and grab them...

Oh, and WASD and Mouselook being things.

------

I also found the whole Quest for Glory series on GOG. I don't think any game series has matched the combination of puzzles, story-telling, combat, and RPG elements. Especially with the added humor.

[Hiro Protagonest]

and, more recently, Etrian Odyssey 3 or Dark Spire. EO3 even has a map that you have to draw and dot yourself, like you would on a graph paper in no automap games.

I definitely recommend Etrian Odyssey 4.

I haven't played Etrian Odyssey 3 outside of looking over the classes because I tried playing it as my first EO game, and its barrier to entry is just higher than EO4 and EO Untold 2, which have well-designed tutorials and early levels (they also have actual overworld models for the FOEs). EO3 also has this thing called the Farmer class, and if you don't have ~4 farmers for a "gathering team" (with like, a Hoplite or something to protect them from encounters), your guild's economy is going to hurt, a lot. However, the game has a core mechanic that DISCOURAGES you from using guild members outside of your main team, experience points. Switching out guild members will leave you much lower-level than just having five explorers going through everything, you have to specifically go through the farmer's skills, look over their harvesting and passive experience skills, and connect the dots. ...I guess that's old-school.

Yeah, EO4 is easier, but easier is relative. First time I fought the bloodbear, I tried to use my standard tactics for "bulky random encounter" and got punished. Hard. Luckily I had already spent skill points on the ability I actually needed to survive that fight, which carried me on my second try even though it had very little use in random encounters up to that point. So there's still that old-school aspect to it.

Etrian Odyssey Untold 2 (a remake of EO2, and notably better than the remake of the first one) also has Expert mode which cranks the difficulty back up, so you can either do Story Mode for what is essentially the "intended" expert difficulty (because Fafnir is overpowered, and they adjusted the game around it), or you can do Classic Mode and get something even harder or just cheese it out with some ridiculous War Magus or Dark Hunter setups.

---

Oh, and I'm also with you on Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. They're not roguelikes, but they play like roguelikes. You go in a randomly-generated dungeon with a grid system, for every move you make so does everything else on the floor, and you have to clear whatever dungeon you've entered before you can leave (you actually can't go back, you have to clear it or devote inventory space to a specific escape item). Blue Rescue Team (for better music than the GBA title of Red) and Explorers of Sky are great.

[Philistine]

In the wake of various clarifications of the OP, I'll mention Dragon Age: Origins as a newer game that recaptured and in some ways improved on the old Infinity Engine formula. It's too bad they never made a sequel; but then again, maybe it's for the best. I'm sure they didn't want to risk alienating the people who liked the game by rushing out with a ludicrous pile of blatant shovelware in a transparent attempt to cash in on a surprise hit. Some of those fans might not be eager to give them another chance after something like that, thus becoming ex-fans.

[The Glyphstone]

In the wake of various clarifications of the OP, I'll mention Dragon Age: Origins as a newer game that recaptured and in some ways improved on the old Infinity Engine formula. It's too bad they never made a sequel; but then again, maybe it's for the best. I'm sure they didn't want to risk alienating the people who liked the game by rushing out with a ludicrous pile of blatant shovelware in a transparent attempt to cash in on a surprise hit. Some of those fans might not be eager to give them another chance after something like that, thus becoming ex-fans.

It's also a good thing they never made any Matrix sequels, right?

[GrayDeath]

^^




As I wrote on an earlier page Gothic rocks if you like athmosphere and style more than sheer playability.
As does its immediate Successor.

As for modern Games in the same vein: try Risen, its effectively Gothic 2.x.


Sigh, sooo many old Games I loved, but almost as many I never played....great thread.

[Spore]

I like freedom in my games. That is why I loved Morrowind (Oblivion and Skyrim of course but I tend to not call them oldschool) and that is why I love Baldur's Gate. Honestly I didn't care about its epic story and overarching structure and whatnot. I just liked that you could go instantly to get yourself killed by Ankhegs. I AM a huge sucker for lore but I don't particularly care about storytelling in games unless it is guided and prevalent like in Undertale.

A few:

Final Fantasy 1: it's the quintessential turn based group RPG for me. And I can choose my party myself. A thing I hate about most later Final Fantasy installments is not that the characters had personality but the forced group composition and the static level advancement. Yes, yes I know there were systems to customize but barebones Squall is always a Warrior. Zidane is always a Thief and Dagger is always the summoner that doesn't summon jack diddly for 2/3 of the game and suffers depressive episodes for a huge chunk of the game, nullifying her turns.

Morrowind: A huge sandbox

Baldurs Gate series:

Undertale

filling in when I come home from work, running late.

[Fri]

If you like FF1 you should try Artifact Adventure. It's on steam now. It's really good. It's basically something like ff1 or DQ1, an old school open world jrpg where you choose your starting class. It's open world, but pretty old school that you don't even get quest journal. You just go to a town, talk to npcs that give you hints that there's mysterious mine in the south or slavery in the north, and it's up to you if you want to do anything with them. In fact, straight at the beginning of the game you got choices of your starting gift, artifacts that give you bonus stats, keys to some shrines scattered in the world that basically give you extra objectives, and a freakin airship that instantly give you access to the whole world. Yes, you can get an airship right at the beginning of the game when you're level 1. Also the game only gives you one save slot per game, since there's lots of choices, by the structure of the game it means you can't do anything in one try.

[danzibr]

Googled Artifact Adventure. Looks amazing (well, maybe not amazing, but certainly right up my alley).

[Corlindale]

This thread just made me reinstall MMVII. I will be confined to a subpar laptop next month anyway because I'm moving, so it'll be pretty convenient to play something old

[Philistine]

It's also a good thing they never made any Matrix sequels, right?

Indeed - it would have been a tragedy. And possibly also a travesty. It's unlikely that they'd have been able to recapture the appeal of that film, and trying to do so might well have come off as desperate and/or sad (in addition to clumsy).

[factotum]

This thread just made me reinstall MMVII. I will be confined to a subpar laptop next month anyway because I'm moving, so it'll be pretty convenient to play something old

Bought MM8 and all three Lands of Lore games since they were all on sale at GoG, but probably won't be playing them just yet because the Steam summer sale is expected to start tomorrow and I have a whole list of games I'm hoping will get a good discount--will download and play those first, if I get them.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Undertale

Are pixel graphics enough to make something old-school?

[Brother Oni]

I don't know exactly how old it is, but I really like the Fighting Fantasy RPG. Extremely simple to learn, but as open as D&D (in terms of what kind of game you can run).

The Advanced Fighting Fantasy system which started with Dungeoneer! came out in 1989, of which I still have my first edition paperback somewhere.

Which was 27 years ago.

Oh god I'm old...

[wumpus]

There's a modern fan patch for Morrowind, where one of the big things it does is drastically increases vision range. It takes the in game directions from borderline useless to actually pretty helpful.

Woah. Maybe this player who started with Oblivion will finally play Morrowind seriously. Wandering around Tamriel is important in Elder Scroll games. Wandering because you can't find your quest is another thing.

[LibraryOgre]

In the wake of various clarifications of the OP, I'll mention Dragon Age: Origins as a newer game that recaptured and in some ways improved on the old Infinity Engine formula. It's too bad they never made a sequel; but then again, maybe it's for the best. I'm sure they didn't want to risk alienating the people who liked the game by rushing out with a ludicrous pile of blatant shovelware in a transparent attempt to cash in on a surprise hit. Some of those fans might not be eager to give them another chance after something like that, thus becoming ex-fans.

Absolutely hated that game. The story seemed interesting, but I had to spend too much time fighting the AI of my characters to have fun with it.

[Ailurus]

Absolutely hated that game. The story seemed interesting, but I had to spend too much time fighting the AI of my characters to have fun with it.

I found Origins to have the best AI controls of virtually any real-time-with-pause game I've ever played. No idea how the presets worked (or if Origins even had presets) cause I never used them. Instead, you could put in actually useful commands yourself:

• If target is a caster, use your stun-move on him.
• If there's more than X enemies clustered around, use this AoE move
• If enemy is attacking someone other than you, use stun and/or aggro move
• If friendly is below a particular health percentage, use heal spell

and so on.

[Crow]

I found Origins to have the best AI controls of virtually any real-time-with-pause game I've ever played. No idea how the presets worked (or if Origins even had presets) cause I never used them. Instead, you could put in actually useful commands yourself:

• If target is a caster, use your stun-move on him.
• If there's more than X enemies clustered around, use this AoE move
• If enemy is attacking someone other than you, use stun and/or aggro move
• If friendly is below a particular health percentage, use heal spell

and so on.

I also had a really easy time with DA:O. The npc scripts were amazing, and I was disappointed to see the system go away.

Woah. Maybe this player who started with Oblivion will finally play Morrowind seriously. Wandering around Tamriel is important in Elder Scroll games. Wandering because you can't find your quest is another thing.

It wasn't that bad. You just follow the directions they give you, and if you forget, you look for the quest in your journal and the directions are right there again. The only one I ever had a problem with was when you are looking for some pillars in the ashlands, and something about a white guar- but I think the point was that you had to wander a bit.