The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA

[Nifft]

"rake drake"

Malfoy in leather pants is not on topic here.


Anyway no strong opinions against -0 for this thing.

[ViperMagnum357]

LA-0 for the Rage Drake. Dragon RHD are solid, but unless you are a True Dragon and thus gaining Caster levels and other bonuses for advancing them, they are not a replacement for features.

[javcs]

Concur, LA -0.

Way too many RHD. Numbers alone can't compensate for inadequacy elsewhere - especially when those numbers are themselves inadequate.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Nope, HD of both the base humanoid and base creature get added together. Minumum of 1 RHD each.

Hence the "without too much HD bloat".
Also, it looked like you were going to say something about my comment about the shadow-whatsits, but you didn't.

What a boring, uninspired monster. They could have at least called it a "rake drake" to give it a punny name.

That's not a pun, that's a rhyme.

[javcs]

Hence the "without too much HD bloat".
Also, it looked like you were going to say something about my comment about the shadow-whatsits, but you.

But you don't get to bypass RHD bloat.

Oh. Whoops.
The shadow stuff in ToM mostly just makes for sadness, and an urge to eat ice cream.

[Nifft]

The shadow stuff in ToM mostly just makes for sadness, and an urge to eat ice cream.

... and then the following section removes your ability to taste ice cream.

Truly a diabolic publication.

[GreatWyrmGold]

But you don't get to bypass RHD bloat.

You do if you pick something that isn't afflicted with it in the first place.

[TiaC]

It's probably slightly better than a single-classed barbarian. However, by 14th level, the gap between the tiers is too great for that to matter. -0 for me.

[Thurbane]

I concur with what's been said about the Rage Drake. A few less HD, and it could happily be LA +0. 14HD just doesn't leave enough room to do much with. Even if you count the 14HD as 7 initiator level, you're only just going to hit 7th level maneuvers pre-epic.

It's got some very nice stuff for a melee type, but the HD push this into LA -0. Also, -6 Int hurts on any character.

[Random Sanity]

Rage Drake ... this thing's not even worthy of a rage quit. -0

Can I sig this?

Yes, you can. (Sorry, was away from my comp all weekend.)

[Aniikinis]

The only rage this thing inspires is that of a freelancer with a bad attitude on a deadline who just ran out of coffee and ideas. -0.

[Inevitability]

Ragewalker

Move aside, Harssaf, we got a new cool-and-edgy monster. I'm not going to ask anyone to suffer through the entire fluff text, but at least read the opening paragraph.

Ragewalkers embody the natural forces of war and combat in the same way that a nymph embodies the beauty of nature or a dryad embodies the heart of its tree. These deadly fey emerge from a landscape torn and twisted by war, and they are nature’s response to the ravages of such battles. The ragewalker, also known as the war torn fey, exists to perpetuate combat, turning men and beast alike against one another. Insane by the standards of any but the uncaring forces of nature, ragewalkers seek the annihilation of all war through the annihilation of all who are capable of making war.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at their stats. One immediate issue is the walker's hit dice: not only does it have 22 of them, they're also Fey type, which are basically only interesting for combat-avoiding skillmonkeys (fun fact: ragewalkers have a grand total of seven class skills). Ability scores are moderate (19 strength and con, 24 charisma and dexterity, 14 wisdom, 10 intelligence), especially for something that's got this many RHD.

This awful chassis is somewhat compensated for with DR 10/cold iron, as well as fast healing 5. Less relevant are the +6 natural armor and dual claw attacks.

Special abilities are a very mixed bag. Control Living Spells is interesting, but ultimately just a limited version of Rebuke Ooze. Grafted Armor gives the ragewalker the option of penalty-less, movement-neutral armor with a +6 bonus. Whether this is worth it probably depends on whether it can be enchanted.

A ragewalker's main trick is Induce Blood Frenzy, which makes everything within a certain radius go berserk and madly attack the closest creature. The issue: said radius is ten feet, meaning that half the time all it does is buff whatever was going to attack you anyway. It does have some utility in disabling casters, but I'm not sure I'd say that makes up for not being able to go within three meters of friendlies in fear of driving them insane. There's also the bit where a ragewalker doesn't really possess the movement options to use this ability creatively.

Repel Missiles, in the spirit of good ol' WotC design, completely invalidates any ranged weapon users unless they have +6 bows. How exactly a level 14 character is supposed to have that isn't elaborated on. I'm not denying the ability has some use, but ranged weapon users are a lot rarer among monsters than among PCs.

Weapon Cloud is... bad. 2d6 slashing damage that gets reduced by DR is bad, even when it's a passive effect. Arguably, it's mostly your own allies who will suffer from this.

Finally there's the SLAs. 3/day Wall of Fire, Blade Barrier, Bull's Strength, and Greater Magic Weapon are very meh, and definitely don't redeem this critter.

-0 LA, in the end. Ragewalkers are too little for too much.

[ViperMagnum357]

LA -0. The aura has some serious potential, and the defense against missile attacks is terrific: but you are still eating so many RHD-Fey RHD at that...I do not see how to work around that. The rest is more appropriate for something with half the RHD, so no salvaging this thing.

[Thurbane]

-0 LA, in the end. Ragewalkers are too little for too much.

Agree completely - they have nothing that compensates for that stack of RHD.

LA -0 from me.

[OgresAreCute]

IT'S THE MOST EVILEST SPIKIEST WAR MONSTER

Aight

IT'S A ...fey?



-0.

[Caelestion]

What is it about spiked chains and WotC? Default monsters using them appear in MM, Heroes of Horror and this one, apparently.

[TiaC]

22 RHD means -0. I loved this monster when I first got the book, but I've never managed to use it.

[Lapak]

Not that it would bring this above -0 with so many other problems, but I can't recall: are there any feats that expand the area of effect for monster abilities? Pushing the radius out more than 10 feet would make it substantially more useful.

[Thurbane]

There's Dilate Aura (FC2), that might arguably work...

[javcs]

Concur, LA -0.

Its best use is for stealing its Repel Missiles ability, and maybe a couple of the others.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Move aside, Harssaf, we got a new cool-and-edgy monster. I'm not going to ask anyone to suffer through the entire fluff text, but at least read the opening paragraph.

This is one of those monsters whose fluff was clearly decided upon after their vague concept and design were finalized (possibly due to original fluff being axed). The fluff doesn't fit with most of its abilities, and definitely doesn't fit with its visual design. If it embodies "the natural forces of war and combat," why are most of its abilities based around artificial weapons, and why is it encased in clearly-artificial metal armor?
If this was some kind of fey transformed into a super-soldier, maybe made by a demented elven emperor in ages past, it would make sense...but it's not.

Special abilities are a very mixed bag. Control Living Spells is interesting, but ultimately just a limited version of Rebuke Ooze. Grafted Armor gives the ragewalker the option of penalty-less, movement-neutral armor with a +6 bonus. Whether this is worth it probably depends on whether it can be enchanted.

There are, what, three creatures in the MM3 with inbuilt armor? This, the ironclad mauler, and the warforged? I wonder if WotC was going through a phase.
Control Living Spells is pretty boring, especially if your setting doesn't come packaged with some method of finding plenty of them. Now, if the ragewalker could cast spells as (say) a druid or sorcerer, and could choose to summon living spells by expending spell slots...

What is it about spiked chains and WotC? Default monsters using them appear in MM, Heroes of Horror and this one, apparently.

Someone needed to tell their character designers that spiked chains aren't kewl. They're kinda edgy, I guess, and a clever fight choreographer could make a character use them in interesting ways (assuming an animated medium or CGI effects), but they look kinda dumb when they're not in motion.

[Zaq]

The fluff doesn't fit with most of its abilities, and definitely doesn't fit with its visual design. If it embodies "the natural forces of war and combat," why are most of its abilities based around artificial weapons, and why is it encased in clearly-artificial metal armor?

Eh, for all this thing’s design sins, that one doesn’t bother me. In a universe where crap like “Law” or “Chaos” are measurable and sometimes physical forces, the idea of conflict/combat being a force of nature doesn’t seem that crazy. People fight. A lot. I’m okay with that being called a “natural urge” for the purpose of a crazy fey. And since PEOPLE fight, why not embody the weapons they fight with? That sells to me that this thing is created out of locales where great battles took place, presumably with weapons. It’s nature’s response to getting so many sword-wielding dudes in one place.

The thing is still -0 even with ten fewer RHD, of course. And it’s got plenty of other very questionable design choices. So don’t get me wrong, we got problems.

[danielxcutter]

Kinda scary for their CR methinks, but waaaaaaay too many crappy RHD for a melee type.

LA -0, walking out at rage because of this.

[Nifft]

[CENTER]Ragewalker

With that out of the way, let's take a look at their stats. One immediate issue is the walker's hit dice: not only does it have 22 of them, they're also Fey type

Yeah. Yuck. Not playable pre-Epic, and not competitive in Epic.

Verdict: LA -0.

Special abilities are a very mixed bag. Control Living Spells is interesting, but ultimately just a limited version of Rebuke Ooze.

Sure but Living Spells are a hell of a lot more interesting than the average ooze. Technically there is overlap but the stage direction here is vastly helpful in my opinion, especially since Living Spells are introduced* in the same book.

*) ... to non-Eberronian DMs, that is.

Repel Missiles, in the spirit of good ol' WotC design, completely invalidates any ranged weapon users unless they have +6 bows. How exactly a level 14 character is supposed to have that isn't elaborated on.

+4 Bane (fey), EZPZ.

(Nobody cared who I was until I took an arrow to the knee.)

Eh, for all this thing’s design sins, that one doesn’t bother me. In a universe where crap like “Law” or “Chaos” are measurable and sometimes physical forces, the idea of conflict/combat being a force of nature doesn’t seem that crazy. People fight. A lot. I’m okay with that being called a “natural urge” for the purpose of a crazy fey. And since PEOPLE fight, why not embody the weapons they fight with? That sells to me that this thing is created out of locales where great battles took place, presumably with weapons. It’s nature’s response to getting so many sword-wielding dudes in one place.

That works.

Alternately it might work like a toxic Pollution Spirit or an Urban Sprite. It's a perversion of nature due to civilization encroaching (in this case emotionally), not a natural expression of some natural process.

Or maybe if you took a Dryad's tree and turned its heartwood into arrows and spears, the soaked every arrow and spear in the blood of a dying humanoid (by firing the arrows & stabbing people with the spears), then you might see the rotting blood-soaked soil of the battlefield awaken with something like this guy.

[No brains]

How many monsters are just spinning piles of blades? There's arguably this, Ragewind, Shredstorm, and Shrapnel. Okay, I get it! There's a cloud of ouch! I only need ONE.

[Nifft]

How many monsters are just spinning piles of blades? There's arguably this, Ragewind, Shredstorm, and Shrapnel. Okay, I get it! There's a cloud of ouch! I only need ONE.

- Blade Barrier Living Spell

- Swarm of Butterfly Knives

- Stabby Stu, a halfling hireling who glues knives to dull grey ioun stones

[danielxcutter]

+4 Bane (fey), EZPZ.

(Nobody cared who I was until I took an arrow to the knee.)

Holy also works, probably.

[Blue Jay]

This is one of those monsters whose fluff was clearly decided upon after their vague concept and design were finalized (possibly due to original fluff being axed). The fluff doesn't fit with most of its abilities, and definitely doesn't fit with its visual design. If it embodies "the natural forces of war and combat," why are most of its abilities based around artificial weapons, and why is it encased in clearly-artificial metal armor?
If this was some kind of fey transformed into a super-soldier, maybe made by a demented elven emperor in ages past, it would make sense...but it's not.

Yeah, the fluff of this creature doesn't really appeal to me. It's a manifestation of war that wants to annihilate war by perpetuating war in order to annihilate anybody who can wage war... it's just weird. And I feel like its alignment is really weird too, because its crusade is apparently driven by Lawful motives (retribution for wrongdoings) but it uses Chaos as a method (rage); but really, it seems like a "Chaos to fight Chaos" and "Evil to fight Evil" kind of deal... anyway, it just spins me in circles a bit.

And the insanity thing doesn't sit well with me either. How can it be insane and have a racial Wis bonus? Doesn't Wis represent all the things that insanity is not (common sense, perception, intuition, willpower)? And it feels like they're almost insinuating that Nature itself is insane, or at least has the lowest standards when it comes to judging insanity. I mean, I feel like demons and chaos beasts would find this creature's behavior perfectly coherent and in line with their overall worldviews.

And it also doesn't feel like a fey to me: it seems like the fluff would better fit an incorporeal undead of some kind.

Anyway, yeah, probably LA -0 for the ragewalker. It feels like it would be annoying to play one as a PC, or to play a PC alongside one.

[Mike Miller]

- Stabby Stu, a halfling hireling who sovereign glues knives to dull grey ioun stones

This is an excellent idea (with bolded addition).

[TiaC]

This is an excellent idea (with bolded addition).

I was trying to price an item that's just a bunch of these, giving you a slashing damage aura.