The Elder Scrolls XVI: Sworn to Carry Your Burdens

[Fyraltari]

What I am more puzzled about is what exactly Paarthunax did when Alduin showed up. Like he spent millenia waiting on that mountain for that very day and...?

What was the plan?

[Rater202]

What I am more puzzled about is what exactly Paarthunax did when Alduin showed up. Like he spent millenia waiting on that mountain for that very day and...?

What was the plan?

My understanding is that Paarthurnax's plan was to train people in the Thu'um so that there would be people to train the various Dragonborns.

In the philosophy of the Way of the Voice, Kyne gave humans the ability to shout as dragons do as a weapon but in the modern-day, its true use is understanding and worship of the Gods... Unless you're Dragonborn. If you ask why they're teaching you when you don't share their views, they tell you that it's a privilege to train the Dragonborn and that you are not bound by the same rules and expectations as the Greybeards. If you swear to try and abide by the Way of The Voice, they say "don't get too hasty, if the gods didn't want you to use this power as you saw fit then you wouldn't be Dragonborn."

And it's Paarthurnax who founded the Greybeards and, presumably, shaped their philosophy. So he would have essentially created a religion where it's an honor to train a Dragonborn in the Thu'um even if they refuse to follow the way of the voice despite being ultra-strict about everyone else.

and this scans: The Greybeard will ultimately concede or enable anything you do as long as you don't kill Paarthunax. That is the one and only line you can cross with them that has any consequences.

[Lord Raziere]

What I am more puzzled about is what exactly Paarthunax did when Alduin showed up. Like he spent millenia waiting on that mountain for that very day and...?

What was the plan?

Dragons are connected to the god of time, and there is was the dragonborn prophecy that the Nords made about the dragonborn oh in, First Era, 2812 by Emperor Reman II. the Dragon War was in the Merethic Era, probably somewhere about Middle or Late Merethic, so given that we have no hard dates on anything merethic era, Paarthurnax has had at minimum 4800 years to do whatever he wanted with his life before do what he is supposed to do because he knew the Last Dragonborn would show up to do whatever it is he does and knew what his role in that would be, about 2800 of those years being doing whatever he wanted in the 1E and another 2000 years to get used to the idea that Alduin was going to return and the Last Dragonborn was going to be the one he was going to teach. Paarthurnax does seem very accepting and at peace with all the events transpiring one way or another, so its probable that he has foreseen all this in some manner.

his plan was basically "be the Last Dragonborns real mentor and talk about why this is happening: tell them the truth about the situation and let them choose how it will turn out, if Alduin wins it means the world will begin again in a new kalpa, if Dragonborn wins the mortals get to keep living, either I'm going to die because Alduin doesn't like betrayal or the last of the Blades are going to kill me just for being a dragon, I've lived a full life far longer than any of peers and have found a form of peace by arguably becoming a dragon with the values of a human, so what do I care?"

like this is major chosen one prophecy stuff, the plans already laid out no matter what he does.

[LibraryOgre]

What if, instead of eating the literal world, Alduin was going to eat its soul?

[Keltest]

What if, instead of eating the literal world, Alduin was going to eat its soul?

Did this become Warcraft suddenly?

[Lord Raziere]

What if, instead of eating the literal world, Alduin was going to eat its soul?

Maybe?

But the problem there is figuring what that actually means. If we go with the theory that Nirn is the Daedric Plane of Lorkhan and thus he can't really die (his heart kept beating long after his "death" after all), then technically the closest thing to the world having a soul is Lorkhan himself so.....he plans on eating long hidden Lorkhan? To be fair, that would probably would end the world and return everything to the very pre-Nirn chaos of Aetherius/Oblivion that the Thalmor want to go back to, but the theory assumes that Lorkhan is hiding and only taking a hand in things like being the real god that answered Saint Alessia when she prayed to Akatosh, or empowering Pelinal Whitestrake to kill a whole lot of elves. which we have no evidence for other than the fact that it makes no sense that it doesn't make sense for Akatosh, who started out an elven god with elven values, to suddenly turn around and start siding with the humans, especially when the modern form of Akatosh was created by Alessia herself to solve religious differences between the Nords who worshipped the old nordic pantheon and the Nedes who worshipped the elven gods at the time, both of whom were her followers when rebelling against the Ayleids. But it does make sense if the god that answered her was Lorkhan, because Lorkhan has good reason to hate elves and their goal of returning to the Padomaic/Anuic pre-world or whatever. he didn't make Nirn for nothing after all.

[Keltest]

Maybe?

But the problem there is figuring what that actually means. If we go with the theory that Nirn is the Daedric Plane of Lorkhan and thus he can't really die (his heart kept beating long after his "death" after all), then technically the closest thing to the world having a soul is Lorkhan himself so.....he plans on eating long hidden Lorkhan?

Is that actually a theory? Because the only source ive heard for that is Mankhar Camoran's spiel about how Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong, and he gets so many things factually, wildly incorrect there that i dont think its worth giving any credence to.

[Lord Raziere]

Is that actually a theory? Because the only source ive heard for that is Mankhar Camoran's spiel about how Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong, and he gets so many things factually, wildly incorrect there that i dont think its worth giving any credence to.

Its a fudgemuppet theory, and they're perhaps the three people who think about Elder Scrolls lore the deepest and most thoroughly. the relevant video explaining the logic behind it here.

[Fyraltari]

And it's Paarthurnax who founded the Greybeards and, presumably, shaped their philosophy. So he would have essentially created a religion where it's an honor to train a Dragonborn in the Thu'um even if they refuse to follow the way of the voice despite being ultra-strict about everyone else.

and this scans: The Greybeard will ultimately concede or enable anything you do as long as you don't kill Paarthunax. That is the one and only line you can cross with them that has any consequences.

Jurgen Windcaller founded the Greybeards, not Paarthurnax. He did become the head of the order eventually. I dunno, I think "I just hope a Dragonborn will show up to deal with this" is kind of a weak plan. Especially since the one who showed up the first time around refused to deal with it.

Also did he flee when Alduin appeared or what? I'm just surprised we never got a description of the encounter.

Dragons are connected to the god of time, and there is was the dragonborn prophecy that the Nords made about the dragonborn oh in, First Era, 2812 by Emperor Reman II. the Dragon War was in the Merethic Era, probably somewhere about Middle or Late Merethic, so given that we have no hard dates on anything merethic era, Paarthurnax has had at minimum 4800 years to do whatever he wanted with his life before do what he is supposed to do because he knew the Last Dragonborn would show up to do whatever it is he does and knew what his role in that would be, about 2800 of those years being doing whatever he wanted in the 1E and another 2000 years to get used to the idea that Alduin was going to return and the Last Dragonborn was going to be the one he was going to teach. Paarthurnax does seem very accepting and at peace with all the events transpiring one way or another, so its probable that he has foreseen all this in some manner.

Is there any evidence Paarthurnax knew the prophecy of the Last Dragonborn? It was madd by the dragonguard who would really not be keen to share that information with a dragon.

his plan was basically "be the Last Dragonborns real mentor and talk about why this is happening: tell them the truth about the situation and let them choose how it will turn out, if Alduin wins it means the world will begin again in a new kalpa

No, if Alduin wins he's going to enslave the world/Skyril just like he did in the Merethic Era for as long as he can before he has to perform his duties of ending the kalpa.

What if, instead of eating the literal world, Alduin was going to eat its soul?

Did this become Warcraft suddenly?

I mean Anui-el, the soul of everything, comes pretty close, no? So does the Heart of Lorkhan but that one's gone so Alduin can't eat it. Maybe he'd just devour the Towers?

Is that actually a theory? Because the only source ive heard for that is Mankhar Camoran's spiel about how Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong, and he gets so many things factually, wildly incorrect there that i dont think its worth giving any credence to.

Everything that can be theorised by this fandom is, somewhere, no matter how little evidence there is to support it.

[Rater202]

In Oblivion, with two exceptions during the Arena storyline, ou only fight one or more opponents of the same rank as you and you progress by clearing a certain number of challenges.

If you assume that the rules hold true for everyone and everyone has a similar career as you to earn their rank, then at 22 matches to become the grand champion there are over 4 million bodies under you, a bare minimum: All of your kills and all of their kills ad infinitum.

I don't think that Bethesda thought that math out pretty well when they made that questline.

[Lord Raziere]

Is there any evidence Paarthurnax knew the prophecy of the Last Dragonborn? It was madd by the dragonguard who would really not be keen to share that information with a dragon.

Okay, I don't remember his dialogue, but rechecking it it seems his talking of this kind destiny and whatnot is more of a philosophy thing than being able to see the future. but he does say one thing:

Q: How could an Elder Scrolls cast Alduin through time?
A: "Vomidok. I do not know. Perhaps in the very doing they erased the knowing of it from Time itself. The dov are children of Akatosh. Thus we are specially... attuned to the flow of Time. Perhaps also uniquely vulnerable. I warned them against such a rash action. Even I could not foresee its consequences. Nus ni hon. They would not listen."

He does imply dragons are specially attuned to the flow of time in a way and implies he can foresee things, but he also says he is ignorant of true destiny and how this could happen. and he does already know who the Dragonborn is:

Q: I think you already know who I am.
A: "Yes. Vahzah. You speak true, Dovahkiin. Forgive me. It has been long since I held tinvaak with a stranger. I gave in to the temptation to prolong our speech."

[Fyraltari]

being the real god that answered Saint Alessia when she prayed to Akatosh, or empowering Pelinal Whitestrake to kill a whole lot of elves. which we have no evidence for other than the fact that it makes no sense that it doesn't make sense for Akatosh, who started out an elven god with elven values, to suddenly turn around and start siding with the humans, especially when the modern form of Akatosh was created by Alessia herself to solve religious differences between the Nords who worshipped the old nordic pantheon and the Nedes who worshipped the elven gods at the time, both of whom were her followers when rebelling against the Ayleids. But it does make sense if the god that answered her was Lorkhan, because Lorkhan has good reason to hate elves and their goal of returning to the Padomaic/Anuic pre-world or whatever. he didn't make Nirn for nothing after all.

It makes plenty of sense for Akatosh to answer Alessia.

First: as you said, the Nedes already worshipped the Ayleid gods so Akatosh was already a human god. Why would he favorise Mer over Men?

Second: I suspect the influence of the original Nedic pantheon (whatever it was) on the Imperial cult is probably underrated. The name Akatosh had to come from somewhere and it certainly wasn't combining "Auri-el" and "Alduin". Likewise, since the Elven pantheon doesn't seem to have an equivalent to Junahl, why was the name changed to Julianos?

Third: Alessia, Morihaus and Pelinal weren't on a mission to wipe the Ayleids out. They were on a mission to free the humans and cast down the Ayleid Daedric-worshipping Empire. They had Ayleid allies, who worshipped the Eight, remember? Akatosh had plenty of reasons to want Umaril dead even if he liked elves more than men.

Fourth: Pelinal is still a free agent, regardless of who sent him. That Morihaus wasn't as kill-happy towards elves and that the Eight at least once rejected the Whitestrake after a rampage until Alessia made them reconsider are pretty good indications that "slaughter elves" wasn't in the mission briefing back in Aetherius.

Five: There's also a theory that Shezzar and Aka(tosh) are the same dude anyway, so...

[Lord Raziere]

I'm not interesting in debating your counterarguments Fyraltari, they all boil down to "but what if conventional though?" which is not what I come to Elder Scrolls for. If I wanted to be bored and not have crazy metaphysics, there are tons of generic fantasy for that.

[Keltest]

I'm not interesting in debating your counterarguments Fyraltari, they all boil down to "but what if conventional though?" which is not what I come to Elder Scrolls for. If I wanted to be bored and not have crazy metaphysics, there are tons of generic fantasy for that.

I must say, this is the first time i have seen somebody openly admit that they are rejecting arguments because they make too much sense.

[Fyraltari]

I must say, this is the first time i have seen somebody openly admit that they are rejecting arguments because they make too much sense.

I mean, this The Elder Scrolls, if an universe runs on reverse Occam's Razor, it's that one.

Edit: that said, I'm not sure what, in what I said, Raziere thinks contradicts "crazy metaphysics".

[Lord Raziere]

I must say, this is the first time i have seen somebody openly admit that they are rejecting arguments because they make too much sense.

Because those discussions not fun to me, at least where Elder Scrolls is concerned. Elder Scrolls to me is at its best when its when its this esoteric metaphysical world where things aren't always as they seem, isn't a generic medieval fantasy and there is actual reason to think Vivec has a point how things work or what the Dwemer did may have something more to it than just a self-delete. its like mentioning a legend in a fantasy then talking about how its not true and how nothing could happen from it not being true, its only saddening because your throwing away the point of mentioning it in the first place.

[Taevyr]

That's also one of the reasons I disliked the removal of mysticism: it was just such a perfect fit for the ES universe to have, on one hand, a bunch of magic schools that interact with the world in a relatively understandable way and have a clear underlying theme, and then you have that one school that's essentially "this **** works, nobody knows how and it'll ruin your sense of living in a logically consistent universe if you think about it, so try not to"

[Resileaf]

I think it's just that Alduin has forgotten his true purpose and is just all about "Dragons good, everyone else bad"--so he spends all his time resurrecting dragons and attacking small towns in the middle of nowhere. (Although I never really did understand why he attacked Helgen...there never seemed to be any real justification for him doing that).

A theory I've heard about that that I like is that Alduin was not initially planning on attacking Helgen, but he knew that the last Dragonborn was there, so he was keeping an eye on the executions to ensure the Dragonborn would die. However, Paarthurnax, knowing of Alduin's return, starts roaring from his mountaintop, as a warning to the village. Alduin, suddenly fearing that the executions will be delayed or cancelled and the Dragonborn spared, swoops in and attacks the village to ensure the Dragonborn's death himself. Problem is, he doesn't know exactly who the Dragonborn is, and merely has a vague sensation of their location. Which is why he comes several times close to killing them in his attack, barely missing them and killing someone else nearby instead. And should the Dragonborn take too much time to get to safety inside the keep, he will eventually find them and attack them directly.

[factotum]

Sounds kind of reasonable, Resileaf...so the first roar we hear wasn't actually Alduin but Paarthurnax? Interesting theory.

[veti]

I don't think that Bethesda thought that math out pretty well when they made that questline.

I've always hated arena-type plotlines, for this very reason. They take the mathematical absurdity of the rest of the world, which is already pretty silly, and dial it up to 11.

There's one exception I can remember, but even that introduces a whole lot of questions. In 'Jade Empire', losing in the arena isn't fatal, which makes the whole setup about 200% more plausible at a stroke. But even so, you have to accept that, for instance, there's a fighter at the top of the lowest division who loses to everyone he fights, yet somehow always stays at the top of his division. Higher up, there's people who give you all kinds of Ali-like 'tude, but they must all have been beaten otherwise they'd be higher than they are. Nothing really adds up.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Re: Paarthurnax’s plan, based on his dialogue I figured it was a combination of ‘wait for Alduin to return’ (he does help with the fight once the player gets Dragonrend) and ‘guard the Time Wound.’

A theory I've heard about that that I like is that Alduin was not initially planning on attacking Helgen, but he knew that the last Dragonborn was there, so he was keeping an eye on the executions to ensure the Dragonborn would die. However, Paarthurnax, knowing of Alduin's return, starts roaring from his mountaintop, as a warning to the village. Alduin, suddenly fearing that the executions will be delayed or cancelled and the Dragonborn spared, swoops in and attacks the village to ensure the Dragonborn's death himself. Problem is, he doesn't know exactly who the Dragonborn is, and merely has a vague sensation of their location. Which is why he comes several times close to killing them in his attack, barely missing them and killing someone else nearby instead. And should the Dragonborn take too much time to get to safety inside the keep, he will eventually find them and attack them directly.

I like this theory and I am adopting it as head-canon.

[veti]

A theory I've heard about that that I like is that Alduin was not initially planning on attacking Helgen, but he knew that the last Dragonborn was there, so he was keeping an eye on the executions to ensure the Dragonborn would die. However, Paarthurnax, knowing of Alduin's return, starts roaring from his mountaintop, as a warning to the village. Alduin, suddenly fearing that the executions will be delayed or cancelled and the Dragonborn spared, swoops in and attacks the village to ensure the Dragonborn's death himself. Problem is, he doesn't know exactly who the Dragonborn is, and merely has a vague sensation of their location. Which is why he comes several times close to killing them in his attack, barely missing them and killing someone else nearby instead .

The trouble with that is, it assumes Alduin is a moron. All he has to do is not attack the town and the DB would be killed, and he knows this. If the goal of his attack is to ensure the deaths of everyone there, then the level of his failure is truly astonishing. Lots of people escape Helgen, and it would have been even more if not for the DB making their way out.

[Aeson]

In Oblivion, with two exceptions during the Arena storyline, ou only fight one or more opponents of the same rank as you and you progress by clearing a certain number of challenges.

If you assume that the rules hold true for everyone and everyone has a similar career as you to earn their rank, then at 22 matches to become the grand champion there are over 4 million bodies under you, a bare minimum: All of your kills and all of their kills ad infinitum.

I don't think that Bethesda thought that math out pretty well when they made that questline.

If it's three victories in single combats fought to the death against same-rank opponents to advance, then I'm pretty sure that the minimum number of deaths implied by the player character's progression to Grand Champion is closer to a hundred thousand than four million - it's "only" 4^N - 1 deaths to create an Nth-rank opponent (Pit Dog = Rank 0), so each Brawler-ranked opponent represents 3 deaths, each Bloodletter-ranked opponent represents 15 deaths, each Myrmidon-ranked opponent represents 63 deaths, each Warrior-ranked opponent represents 255 deaths, each Gladiator-ranked opponent represents 1,023 deaths, and each Hero-ranked opponent represents 4,095 deaths; a Champion who claims a vacant title represents 16,384 deaths while a Grand Champion who claims a vacant title represents 65,535 deaths by extension of the three-victories rule. For the player character's progression through the ranks of the Arena, we know about the 22 matches that the player character fought; if we assume the same rules for advancement that apply to the player character apply to the opponents then we can also be certain of two Pit Dogs, two Brawlers, two Warriors, and two Gladiators who died in matches against the opponent for the player character's third match in each of those ranks because the Arena announcer explicitly states that the victor in the Pit Dog 3, Brawler 3, Warrior 3, and Gladiator 3 matches will advance to the next rank; the only other match for which the opponent's experience level is explicitly indicated is Pit Dog 1, where it's pretty strongly implied that the opponent is as new to the Arena as the player character is (the announcer only calls the Myrmidon 3 match an 'advancement match,' which it is regardless of whether or not the player character's opponent would advance since the player character will, while for Bloodletter 3 the announcer just talks up the opponent without giving any indication that either combatant is up for advancement; no other match gives any hard indication of the number of fights that the opponent has won at their current rank). As such, the strict lower bound on the number of people who died in Arena fights to allow you to become Grand Champion is something like 97,000 (5 Pit Dogs + 5 Brawlers + 3 Bloodletters + 3 Myrmidons + 5 Warriors + 5 Gladiators + 2 Heroes + 1 Champion + 1 Grand Champion + 5 * 3 deaths to create 5 brawlers + 3 * 15 deaths to create 5 Bloodletters + 3 * 63 deaths to create 3 Myrmidons + 5 * 255 deaths to create 5 Warriors + 5 * 1023 deaths to create 5 Gladiators + 2 * 4095 deaths to create two Heroes + 16,383 deaths to create one Champion for a vacant title + 65,535 deaths to create one Grand Champion for a vacant title, or 96,777 deaths in total). Still a ludicrous number, of course - it's roughly a quarter of the estimated number of people who died in the Flavian Amphitheater over the four centuries in which it operated - but since I'd estimate that the Imperial City Arena kills almost 9,000 people annually* it's probably not too unreasonable for what's presented in the game.

* The Imperial City Arena holds matches from 9 AM to 9 PM daily, year-round. It is implied that matches are fought quite frequently, as you can place a bet on and spectate a match that's just about to begin by speaking with Hundolin at any time within that 12-hour window, so as a rough estimate I would guess that matches begin every half-hour (~20 minutes for a fight, ~10 minutes to clean the Arena, make announcements, and let spectators visit the bookies - and while 20 in-game minutes might be a short fight within the game, 20 real-world minutes is probably very much on the long side for a gladiatorial combat by historical standards, especially if the combatants are going straight for the kill rather than putting on a show, as seems to be the case within the game, and particularly with armor as ineffective as Arena regalia should be given its appearance). This gives 24 matches per day or 8,760 matches per year in 'normal' operation, or about 97,000 deaths in 11 years.

[halfeye]

If it's three victories in single combats fought to the death against same-rank opponents to advance, then I'm pretty sure that the minimum number of deaths implied by the player character's progression to Grand Champion is closer to a hundred thousand than four million - it's "only" 4^N - 1 deaths to create an Nth-rank opponent (Pit Dog = Rank 0), so each Brawler-ranked opponent represents 3 deaths, each Bloodletter-ranked opponent represents 15 deaths, each Myrmidon-ranked opponent represents 63 deaths, each Warrior-ranked opponent represents 255 deaths, each Gladiator-ranked opponent represents 1,023 deaths, and each Hero-ranked opponent represents 4,095 deaths; a Champion who claims a vacant title represents 16,384 deaths while a Grand Champion who claims a vacant title represents 65,535 deaths by extension of the three-victories rule. For the player character's progression through the ranks of the Arena, we know about the 22 matches that the player character fought; if we assume the same rules for advancement that apply to the player character apply to the opponents then we can also be certain of two Pit Dogs, two Brawlers, two Warriors, and two Gladiators who died in matches against the opponent for the player character's third match in each of those ranks because the Arena announcer explicitly states that the victor in the Pit Dog 3, Brawler 3, Warrior 3, and Gladiator 3 matches will advance to the next rank; the only other match for which the opponent's experience level is explicitly indicated is Pit Dog 1, where it's pretty strongly implied that the opponent is as new to the Arena as the player character is (the announcer only calls the Myrmidon 3 match an 'advancement match,' which it is regardless of whether or not the player character's opponent would advance since the player character will, while for Bloodletter 3 the announcer just talks up the opponent without giving any indication that either combatant is up for advancement; no other match gives any hard indication of the number of fights that the opponent has won at their current rank). As such, the strict lower bound on the number of people who died in Arena fights to allow you to become Grand Champion is something like 97,000 (5 Pit Dogs + 5 Brawlers + 3 Bloodletters + 3 Myrmidons + 5 Warriors + 5 Gladiators + 2 Heroes + 1 Champion + 1 Grand Champion + 5 * 3 deaths to create 5 brawlers + 3 * 15 deaths to create 5 Bloodletters + 3 * 63 deaths to create 3 Myrmidons + 5 * 255 deaths to create 5 Warriors + 5 * 1023 deaths to create 5 Gladiators + 2 * 4095 deaths to create two Heroes + 16,383 deaths to create one Champion for a vacant title + 65,535 deaths to create one Grand Champion for a vacant title, or 96,777 deaths in total). Still a ludicrous number, of course - it's roughly a quarter of the estimated number of people who died in the Flavian Amphitheater over the four centuries in which it operated - but since I'd estimate that the Imperial City Arena kills almost 9,000 people annually* it's probably not too unreasonable for what's presented in the game.

* The Imperial City Arena holds matches from 9 AM to 9 PM daily, year-round. It is implied that matches are fought quite frequently, as you can place a bet on and spectate a match that's just about to begin by speaking with Hundolin at any time within that 12-hour window, so as a rough estimate I would guess that matches begin every half-hour (~20 minutes for a fight, ~10 minutes to clean the Arena, make announcements, and let spectators visit the bookies - and while 20 in-game minutes might be a short fight within the game, 20 real-world minutes is probably very much on the long side for a gladiatorial combat by historical standards, especially if the combatants are going straight for the kill rather than putting on a show, as seems to be the case within the game, and particularly with armor as ineffective as Arena regalia should be given its appearance). This gives 24 matches per day or 8,760 matches per year in 'normal' operation, or about 97,000 deaths in 11 years.

That seems horrendously complicated. The number you want though is 2^22 (-1?), supposing there were no byes.

[Aeson]

That seems horrendously complicated. The number you want though is 2^22 (-1?), supposing there were no byes.

A standard single elimination format is problematic if you take the player character's progression through the Arena to be a prototypical progression.

For one, you never once fight an opponent from your own team - your opponent is always from the Yellow Team while you always fight for the Blue Team (this is also true for spectated matches - it's always one Yellow Team combatant against one Blue Team combatant) - which, if taken to be typical for the career of an Arena combatant, implies that Arena combatants join a team when they enter the Arena, never change teams, and never fight an opponent from their own team (at least until they get to Grand Champion or perhaps Champion rank, as there seems to be only one active title-holder for each of these ranks at any given time). How do you manage a K-contestant single-elimination format when the contestants are divided into two groups and contestants from within the same group cannot fight one another? If all the Blue Team combatants in a round got eliminated you'd have to wait until some managed to win at the lower levels, and during that time you could very well be accruing ever more Yellow Team combatants who need opponents as they win matches until they advance to a point where there aren't any Blue Team combatants for them to face. This is of course also a problem for other formats, but it's especially problematic for the K-contestant single-elimination format given the sheer number of lower-ranking matches required to produce enough contestants for the Round of k - all the more so considering that k could very well be growing over time.

For another, the K-contestant single-elimination format produces significantly more ludicrous body counts than "three victories against same-rank opponents to advance." You fight three matches within a rank for most advancements, so if you take this to be a K-contestant single-elimination format then K is 8 and an Nth-rank combatant stands atop a pile of at least 8^N - 1 bodies; a Grand Champion who claimed a vacant title would in effect be the victor of a ~1.7e7-constestant single-elimination tournament while a Champion who claimed a vacant title would in effect be the victor of a ~2e6-contestant single-elimination tournament. Agronak gro-Malog is implied to have successfully defended his Grand Champion title multiple times in the past, so in the ten years that he's held it there have been multiple Arena Champions who had to claim a vacant title just due to Agronak killing the previous holder; additionally, any time a Champion advances to become Grand Champion, that leaves another vacant Champion title; and to put the icing on the cake there are no fewer than five living NPCs who may be retired - i.e. undefeated - Arena Champions (Ysabel Andronicus holds the rank of Champion in the Arena faction, Count Regulus Terentius is said to have been an Arena champion in his youth, Shagrol gro-Uzug is described as "the famous Arena champion" in the note Battlehorn Training Room, and both Jean-Pierre Lemonds and Vandorallen Trebatius are members of the Arena Champions faction - a rather exclusive faction that also includes Agronak gro-Malog - though I don't recall if they're ever described as current or former Arena champions within the game) as well as one living NPC who may be a retired Grand Champion (Owyn holds the rank of Grand Champion in the Arena faction).

I would far rather accept an "overly complicated" Arena format that requires "only" a few hundred thousand to perhaps a million combatants to have died in the Arena over the past century than a standard single-elimination tournament format that quite possibly requires tens to hundreds of millions of Arena combatants to have died in the same period. Ten thousand deaths a year in a particularly lethal Colosseum knockoff is at least within the realm of plausibility - 24 single combats fought to the death every day could just about do it, and to fit that within the 12-hour window where matches are held each day you'd only need to have half-hour timeslots for each match, which is within reasonable limits or perhaps even a bit long since most fights realistically probably wouldn't last much over half that time even with more flamboyant and less lethal combat styles practiced historically instead of the in-game matches where combatants apparently go straight for the kill from the word "go." Hundreds of thousands to millions of deaths annually in a single Colosseum knockoff, when all known matches in that arena involve only a handful of combatants and the typical match is a single combat, strains credulity significantly more - maybe you could do it if mock-battles were regularly fought in the Arena, as was occasionally done in the Flavian Amphitheater, but to achieve even 100,000 deaths annually from single combats in the one Arena we see in the game you'd need something like 23 matches fought to the death every hour (~1 match every two and a half minutes) for the 12 hours that the Arena's open each day, every day of the year, and even if the Kvatch Arena was as active as the Imperial City Arena prior to the destruction of Kvatch that'd only improve to ~1 match fought to the death every five minutes.

[Silverraptor]

My 2 cents on the Alduin argument. He didn't know the dragonborn was there. He did probably know that Ulfric was brought in there. The guy that was causing the humans to fight each other in a civil war, which allowed him to visit the dragon tombs and resurrect them easier as there wouldn't be any unified force to oppose him, as the two sides are busy killing each other. Also, because each side was killing each other, they were sending a continuous supply of fresh souls to Soverigngard, to which he would be able to consume each new soul and get stronger each time. So with Ulfric captured and likely to get executed, he attacked Helgen to cause Ulfric to get free in the chaos and confusion and continue the war. The fact that we, the dragonborn, were also there was just unfortunate coincidence for Alduin.

Remember, the first dragon we fight, he was having fun killing the guards and is blissfully unaware that we're dragonborn until he is slain and dying, but instead of his soul preparing to resurrect or reincarnate or whatever it is that makes dragon's immortal, he starts to feel his soul leave him, causing him to shout, "Dovakiin?! NOOOOOOO!!!!" When Alduin discovered that one of the dragons he resurrected is now missing, he knew there was only one reason for that, there was a dragonborn running around. He probably realized that when the greybeards used their shouts to call the Dragonborn to their place, since all of Skyrim heard that shout.

That's my take on how it played out. It also makes sense with how the developers originally wanted the civil war to play more of an impact initially throughout the game but had to simplify it last second due to problems arising and them running out of time. What better way to make the civil war more main then having the literal Eater of the World deliberately step in to continue it?

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Do we know for fact all the lower-level matches are always against humans and such though? IIRC there was a trained boar in one match (on your team). ESO (admittedly in Kvatch and the Second Era) had leopards and one of the dungeons was full of exotic beasties intended for the arena.

[Rater202]

Do we know for fact all the lower-level matches are always against humans and such though? IIRC there was a trained boar in one match (on your team). ESO (admittedly in Kvatch and the Second Era) had leopards and one of the dungeons was full of exotic beasties intended for the arena.

The boar was the Blue team's mascot and was only sent up there to even the playing field because the yellow team champion had two backup fighters...

Ironic, considering how much of a condescending bitch she was to the Hero of Kvatch that she felt the need to have backup; Earlier dialog implied that your fighting multiple opponents at once wasn't normal and on at least one occasion was the result of the yellow team pulling tricks to stack the deck.

...Why was the Yellow team's Champion always hanging out in the Blue Team's room? You can never get to it and, in fact, there seems to only be the one door on the outside, but she and the Grand Champion are the only people there who aren't part of the Blue Team, and we can presume that the Grey Prince is there because he was Blue Team before becoming the Grand Champion.

It's like she's there solely to be someone you won't feel bad about killing... But other than the Grey Prince you never get enough details about anyone to make whole character instead of just a generic mook.

When the Grand Champion's manager starts suggesting that you show up to fight Monsters once a week, she suggests that the idea of having you do so is a new concept that she only thought of after you killed the Prince.

[Grim Portent]

The arena seems to be very light in terms of rules of engagement. If anything the matches seem to be a matter of the two managers telling the other who's supposed to be fielded in a given match and then only being held to that by the honour system.

I get the feeling it was intended to come across as a very dark and seedy part of Imperial society, with the corpses being dumped into the guttering, contestants dying for trivial payments and backroom intrigue and financial corruption interfering with the proper running of the place.

Like a lot in Oblivion, it winds up being too bare bones to carry anything like that across, it's just got lots and lots of bloodstains and the yellow team come across as a bunch of cheating *******s who suffer no consequences beyond dying at the tip of your sword.

Hell, the place doesn't even seem to have an actual manager. There's the two team coaches, of which we only meet one, the grand champion's personal trainer and the guy who sells tickets and takes bets. Who's actually setting up the schedule? Who does the paperwork making sure the place is covered for legal liabilities? Who skims a huge amount of the profits to have high society dinners?

[Fyraltari]

The arena questline was reworked a lot and huge chunks were left on the cutting floor.
Apparently the intitial idea was to revisit the original concept for The Elder Scrolls I: Arena, each city would have had its own arena and you'd be travelling all around the province to gain reputation.
Edit: so it's not surprising that a lot of the workings of the in-universe arena aren't very well explained.

Source: The Cantina's video What happened to the Imperial City Arena? (no link because of profanities).