Wildbow's Pact Mafia

[PartyOfRogues]

Nothing about contract specialist says that each player can only accept it once, and at the time you wouldn’t be aware that vote manipulation would be known, so no downside for a possibility of being proven town.

[gac3]

Nothing about contract specialist says that each player can only accept it once, and at the time you wouldn’t be aware that vote manipulation would be known, so no downside for a possibility of being proven town.

I personally have never seen a power that is "give another player one of the following powers" that allowed the individual power to be given more than once. Usually they are all one use.


Edit: I find it amusing that I feel like more of a suspect after I was confirmed town by some mystery player with a mystery role.

[AvatarVecna]

I've been ruminating over a possible wolf!gac theory, and I've got a couple questions for you, Cap.

• Someone scried gac3 yesterday night
• That someone wasn't me
• gac3 is a Practitioner (almost surely)

For the moment I won't say anything else about the sequence of events or the people involved (we don't want a Xihirli 2.0 and this time the stakes are higher).

First off, am I correct in thinking that your logic here is something like this?

Spoiler

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1) I saw somebody scry gac3.

2) If they scried him as diabolist/lawyer/wolf, they would've said so already.

3) Nobody has claimed to have scried gac3 as scum.

4) Therefore, gac3 can't be scum.

Secondly, I've been going back and forth over the OP, and I'm really scratching my head here: you're claiming that your power let you see that somebody targeted gac, and it told you what power they used? Because that's not usually how watcher powers work, but also I can't find a role in the OP that explicitly works that way, like not even in the wolf section. So I just wanna clarify: did you see somebody target gac3 with a scry, or did you see somebody target gac3, and then gac3 didn't die, and you assumed it was a scry since it didn't kill him?

[gac3]

I've been ruminating over a possible wolf!gac theory, and I've got a couple questions for you, Cap.



First off, am I correct in thinking that your logic here is something like this?

Spoiler

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1) I saw somebody scry gac3.

2) If they scried him as diabolist/lawyer/wolf, they would've said so already.

3) Nobody has claimed to have scried gac3 as scum.

4) Therefore, gac3 can't be scum.

Secondly, I've been going back and forth over the OP, and I'm really scratching my head here: you're claiming that your power let you see that somebody targeted gac, and it told you what power they used? Because that's not usually how watcher powers work, but also I can't find a role in the OP that explicitly works that way, like not even in the wolf section. So I just wanna clarify: did you see somebody target gac3 with a scry, or did you see somebody target gac3, and then gac3 didn't die, and you assumed it was a scry since it didn't kill him?

They could have talked to this supposed scry person through the use of somebody's telepath ability.

[AvatarVecna]

They could have talked to this supposed scry person through the use of somebody's telepath ability.

That's certainly a possibility, but I hope you understand how convoluted that's making the narrative. It's a possibility I've considered, but I'm asking so I can narrow things down and make sure I'm not basing my theory off the idea that Cap is lying when they're actually just mistaken.

I personally have never seen a power that is "give another player one of the following powers" that allowed the individual power to be given more than once. Usually they are all one use.


Edit: I find it amusing that I feel like more of a suspect after I was confirmed town by some mystery player with a mystery role.

I mean...yeah? It's theoretically possible that (for example) Cap was watching you, the Inquisitor scried you, and the Telepath (without realizing how coincidental this was) set up both Cap and the Inquisitor in a QT. It's not impossible but it's a series of events that is, at the very least, extremely convenient for you if you're actually innocent. So at least until the nature of the "proof of your innocence" is better understood, it really does come across as Cap saying "no gac's totally innocent for reasons that literally nobody can verify right now without outing the seer".

[gac3]

That's certainly a possibility, but I hope you understand how convoluted that's making the narrative. It's a possibility I've considered, but I'm asking so I can narrow things down and make sure I'm not basing my theory off the idea that Cap is lying when they're actually just mistaken.



I mean...yeah? It's theoretically possible that (for example) Cap was watching you, the Inquisitor scried you, and the Telepath (without realizing how coincidental this was) set up both Cap and the Inquisitor in a QT. It's not impossible but it's a series of events that is, at the very least, extremely convenient for you if you're actually innocent. So at least until the nature of the "proof of your innocence" is better understood, it really does come across as Cap saying "no gac's totally innocent for reasons that literally nobody can verify right now without outing the seer".

The inquisitor did not scry me. It has to be another role. Or a lie.

Also Cap could be the telepath.

[AvatarVecna]

The inquisitor did not scry me. It has to be another role. Or a lie.

Also Cap could be the telepath.

There are a lot of things that could have occurred. I'm asking Cap for facts to avoid basing my thoughts on speculation, and I don't appreciate your efforts to deflect and shut down my attempts to gather information.

[PartyOfRogues]

The inquisitor did not scry me. It has to be another role. Or a lie.

Also Cap could be the telepath.

How do you know that the inquisitor didn’t scry you?

[gac3]

How do you know that the inquisitor didn’t scry you?

Because the Inquisitor scried Cap. Practitioner btw.

- - - Updated - - -

There are a lot of things that could have occurred. I'm asking Cap for facts to avoid basing my thoughts on speculation, and I don't appreciate your efforts to deflect and shut down my attempts to gather information.

I'm giving you a fact. The inquisitor did not scry me.

[PartyOfRogues]

Well that raises more questions, how do you know the inquisitor scried Cap unless you’re the inquisitor, this seems like a claim

[gac3]

Well that raises more questions, how do you know the inquisitor scried Cap unless you’re the inquisitor, this seems like a claim

I am the inquisitor.

I am leaning towards cap is the telepath and the sympathist scried me with their power.

[AvatarVecna]

*rubs temples*

[gac3]

Spoiler: Jeenleen

Show

Inquisitor - you can scry someone each night. You learn if they are diabolist, practitioner (e.g., non-diabolist practitioners), or Other. If diabolist, you also learn if they are a wolf (lawyer) or other diabolist.

In other words, you are the seer.

Spoiler: Gac3

Show

I'll seer up Captain Cap.

Spoiler: Jeenleen

Show

Captain Cap is practitioner.

You receive a message: "Xihirli is the Fae Noble, a Neutral, whose win condition involves killing all the wolves."

Edit: This is my quick topic btw.

- - - Updated - - -

Here is what I know:

Nine People left.
Theoretically two wolves? Maybe another Neutral? So six town?
Apogee is town (innocent). I am town (inquisitor).

Captain Cap is town. They scried town. Now I'm not sure if people want to go into the same theory that maybe that was a wolf power, but then why would they come to my defense? Kill me if you want to confirm cap. I'd rather not but if it helps, then do it.

Cap is town and defending me. So while they may be misinformed, they are presumably not lying. I'm hoping they are the telepath and know who the sympathist is. If so then even if you kill me today, you have three confirmed town. Cap will be confirmed by my death, their sympathist will be, and apogee. Hopefully the sympathist can recognize another person, because if I die, cap probably dies tonight.

So best case, I'm looking at 3 confirmed town tomorrow? Four if you leave me alive and let the wolves kill me tonight. Then out of the 7 remaining, we have a fairly good shot of finding the wolves still.

- - - Updated - - -

Alternate theory, Cap is a novice dabbler and their partner used a scry?

[Captain Cap]

I've been ruminating over a possible wolf!gac theory, and I've got a couple questions for you, Cap.



First off, am I correct in thinking that your logic here is something like this?

1) I saw somebody scry gac3.

2) If they scried him as diabolist/lawyer/wolf, they would've said so already.

3) Nobody has claimed to have scried gac3 as scum.

4) Therefore, gac3 can't be scum.

If that was the case, I would have called the statements plausible, not true: they are facts, not deductions.

Secondly, I've been going back and forth over the OP, and I'm really scratching my head here:

That's the point: the purpose of that minimal set of statements is to give the information gathered without making it easy to find out how it was gathered. If a town can deduce it, a wolf can too.

you're claiming that your power let you see that somebody targeted gac, and it told you what power they used? Because that's not usually how watcher powers work, but also I can't find a role in the OP that explicitly works that way, like not even in the wolf section. So I just wanna clarify: did you see somebody target gac3 with a scry, or did you see somebody target gac3, and then gac3 didn't die, and you assumed it was a scry since it didn't kill him?

I'm not claiming anything outside of those statements (and me being town), nor I'll confirm or deny any theory you or anyone else will propose.

That's certainly a possibility, but I hope you understand how convoluted that's making the narrative. It's a possibility I've considered, but I'm asking so I can narrow things down and make sure I'm not basing my theory off the idea that Cap is lying when they're actually just mistaken.

I'm lying or gac3 disguised his true faction, there's no other possibility.

I know that my obstinate reticence can be a little frustrating, but I have good reasons. Instead of giving the answers you're looking for, I'll simply point out the implications of me lying: I and gac3 are both wolves; these two wolves were yesterday on the same wagon, the very same wagon that drew everyone's attention due to the missing vote, and today they're trying to misguide town by openly defending each other.

[gac3]

Anyone else confused about what is going on?

[AvatarVecna]

I appreciate your reticence, I'm just trying to cross-check for inconsistencies. I'm sure you understand.

If anything, I wish your reticence had been shared by others.

[gac3]

I appreciate your reticence, I'm just trying to cross-check for inconsistencies. I'm sure you understand.

If anything, I wish your reticence had been shared by others.

Sorry. I am still the one currently going to die.

[AvatarVecna]

Sorry. I am still the one currently going to die.

Oh yeah I get it. You're in a **** situation either way. Just kinda wish you'd waited to see if Cap could assuage my doubts without you needing to claim, even if you're still in a spot where claiming's unfortunately the best move.

[gac3]

Bout to take a nap. Don't know if I'll be awake for end of day.

So I'm going to try to tie Mornshine with me. Gives me 50/50 chance if nobody else moves. Then maybe I can prevent another town death tonight if I survive. As well as if we have a necromancer, I may be able to still share my Scry results.

[JeenLeen]

Reminder: as is the practice in these Mafia games, do not edit your former posts except to strikethrough votes. (I guess I don't really mind minor edits for typos or adding a line if you just posted, but no going back after a while.)

Also, this subforum has no fear of double-posting (and thus violating forum rules); if you post a new post, it will be appended to your old one if nobody posted in-between. (There might be some exceptions, but it usually if not always happens automatically.)

To my knowledge, nobody has violated this, but it came up so I thought I'd address it publicly.

---

The phase ends in a little under 2 hours. At least it should; there might be some variability.

[AvatarVecna]

Got a apare moment to poet. Mornshine

[Elenna]

Switching to Mornshine because gac3 claimed Inquisitor and hasn't been counterclaimed.

- - - Updated - - -

I have absolutely no idea what's going on with Captain Cap, but I don't think a wolf would stick their neck out this far or be so confusing just to defend a townie. Hopefully they can give us more information later?

[The Outsider]

Well, this was fun to wake up to. But regardless, it seems that MornShine is now the best choice.

[JeenLeen]

Day 3 Ends

I think I added it up right, but maybe missed somebody? # votes = # voters today
gac3: Cao (1 vote)
MornShine: Captain Cap, PartyOfRouges, AvatarVecna, Elenna, The Outsider, gac3 (6 votes)

The Day begins quiet, but accusations start sharply, and eventually one person is revealed as an Innocent somehow mixed up in this mess, and another at least claims to be the Inquisitor. To show how rarely liked the Inquisition is, they almost still die, but attention eventually gets drawn to a mostly silent person in the corner talking to smelly creatures. But, alas, they were not demons, but goblins...

MornShine was killed. He was the Goblin Queen.

Goblin Queen: Each night, you can send your goblins to follow someone. You see who they targeted OR if anyone targeted them. (Tell me which when you pick who you target.)

Night 3 Begins and will end approx 2 p on Sunday Oct. 4th

Spoiler

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Sorry I was late. Grocery run ran long.

[Captain Cap]

Probably one reading is now decisive.

[JeenLeen]

Night 2 Ends

The night passes mostly quietly, with everyone nervously debating what to do. One person speaks up, but soon finds themselves silenced.

Captain Cap died. He was a Novice Dabbler.

Novice Dabblers - you share a QuickTopic and can trust each other. You have a collection of minor skills. Each night, you can use one of the following powers, but you can choose each only once per game. However, if one of you dies, the other loses their powers.
-bane somebody (can target one of you)
-scry somebody. You learn if they are diabolist, practitioner, or Other.
-target somebody and see who targets them
-target somebody and see who they target
-void somebody

Day 3 Begins and Will End Approx. Tuesday @ 2 pm

[gac3]

1 AvatarVecna
2 gac3 - town
3 PartyOfRouges
4 The Outsider
5 Elenna - town
6 Xihirli
7 Apogee1 - town
8 MornShine
9 Captain Cap
10 rogue_alchemist
11 CaoimhinTheCape

My list leaves AV, PoR, Outsider and CtC as possible wolves. Going to bed, will see what others have to say when I wake up and vote then.

[Elenna]

I'm guessing Captain Cap scried gac and that's how he knew gac was Practitioner? I'm not quite sure why he didn't just say so, but oh well.

Spoiler: Elenna ISO

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NAI, wagonomics can be cited by anybody.



NAI. More than a couple people correctly guessed Fae Noble for Xihirli. It's not particularly proof of leaning one way or the other.



NAI, although I might come back to this later, depending on how things go.



"I think this theory that narrows it down to Apogee and MornShine is wrong. I'm also fine poking MornShine, and conveniently it fits the theory I just said I disagree with."

This pokes holes in one attempt to narrow down the six players to find the possible wolf, then she's fine going along with it, to post a highly-inactive player who probably won't be speaking out too much. Gives me bad vibes.



I'll come back to this later as well. But also...the logic Elenna decries here isn't dissimilar to what she used as the justification for voting MornShine ("I don't believe this, but also I'll go along with it anyway"). Which, incidentally, she also uses here, voting for gac even though she has some doubts about wolf!gac. She's mostly just latching onto Cao's arguments. None of this is proof, but it gives more bad vibes.



NAI.



"I didn't realize that my votechange is causing somebody I'm not voting for to die instead, but also I don't care too much that that's happening."

This sounds a lot to me like somebody who's fine with just whoever dying. That's...not a very towny attitude.

Elenna. Getting a lot of bad vibes, and that's even with leaving some of my bad vibes out.

Eh, I could write up a response to this, but based on gac's post, the uncounterclaimed Inquisitor apparently just scried me as town, so I'm probably not going to bother. Long story short, "town but doesn't have enough time to play this game properly" me admittedly looks a lot like wolf me.
Also, if I were a wolf, why would I kill Xihirli when I was pretty sure she was a neutral? Actually, wolf-me would have been even more certain Xi was neutral, because wolf-me would know she wasn't a wolf.

Got a apare moment to poet. Mornshine

Between this post and the one above was a bunch of discussion of Captain Cap and gac that basically didn't mention me or Mornshine at all. So I'm not really sure what prompted the vote change? Was it a test to see if anyone would notice the change? Was it a test to see how many people would jump on Mornshine versus jumping on me? Is AV a wolf who decided they wanted Mornshine lynched more than me for... some reason? Am I overthinking it and AV just changed their mind and didn't have time to explain why?

[gac3]

Actually I'm starting with Party of Rogues simply because they seemed more inclined to believe that I had taken the contract specialist power and gained the ability to Scry as town and then got scried by chance than that I might actually be town.

- - - Updated - - -

Despite POR pushing for that outcome, they didn't move off Mornshine. Idk if that makes it more or less suspicious.

[The Outsider]

I'm still convinced that a wolf was on the RA wagon. So, let's take a look:
-MornShine was Town
-CaptainCap was Town
-Apogee is Town
-gac3 is most likely Town

That leaves only one person. It has to be AvatarVecna. I'm sure of it.