What is E'X'?

[tedcahill2]

I see people using the term e6 game or e8 game. What is it?

[JoshuaZ]

I see people using the term e6 game or e8 game. What is it?

Characters advance to level x and then after that each new level is instead just a feat. It is a way of having lower magic settings that are generally more balanced. You can do it for 3.5 or Pathfinder and both work well.

[tedcahill2]

Characters advance to level x and then after that each new level is instead just a feat. It is a way of having lower magic settings that are generally more balanced. You can do it for 3.5 or Pathfinder and both work well.

So no more class features, no base attack or saving throw increases, to new spells known or per day? Does gear continue to improve? Seems sort of boring. As an avid player of RPG (video) games one of the best parts is looking forward to unlocking that next skill/ability. Seems like that games would stall out.

[Flickerdart]

I see people using the term e6 game or e8 game. What is it?

The original (E6) stands for Epic 6 - the idea that after 6th level, characters no longer progress normally. In that particular variant, they gain a new feat every 1000 XP instead of gaining levels. This is intended to limit high-level shenanigans such as teleportation and resurrection spells, and keep the game "gritty" or "low fantasy" without totally stopping progression.

However, the choice of level (6) is fairly arbitrary. As you say, Epic 8 (E8) is also possible. If you really wanted to, you could make it E4.

I still think 6 is ideal, because of a number of factors:

• Most prestige classes are meant to be entered after level 5, so characters can attain 1 level in their prestige class of choice.
• Full BAB characters, and only full BAB characters, get an iterative attack.
• Both wizard- and sorcerer-progression casters earn their 3rd level spells, which are the last level of spells before stuff like polymorph starts to appear.

So no more class features, no base attack or saving throw increases, to new spells known or per day? Does gear continue to improve? Seems sort of boring. As an avid player of RPG (video) games one of the best parts is looking forward to unlocking that next skill/ability. Seems like that games would stall out.

Characters grow horizontally - you can use feats to pick up new abilities instead of just adding pluses to your existing ones. Of course, you can also take feats like Weapon Focus if you just want numbers to go higher. Frequently, options like Incantations are used in place of high-level spells, making them rare and significant events.

[Hunter Noventa]

It's more like you get a wider variety of abilities rather than just plain more powerful ones. You still get more feats, spells, etc. but your wizards don't get above fireballs and the like. There's also an onus on the DM to keep the challenges appropriate.

It's not for everyone, of course.

[Flickerdart]

There's also an onus on the DM to keep the challenges appropriate.

I don't know about that - I think one of the best things about E6 is having to deal with progressively tougher enemies without gaining levels yourself. Which is definitely not for everyone, but it's not super hard to get real strong through new feats alone. And of course, a lot of the really good spells are 3rd level, so you can just do that.

Oh, another thing - "basic" E6 allows PCs to trade out LA for less point buy, so a lot of monstrous races become playable (and pretty useful).

[GilesTheCleric]

Relevant link to the E6 rules.

[ryu]

So no more class features, no base attack or saving throw increases, to new spells known or per day? Does gear continue to improve? Seems sort of boring. As an avid player of RPG (video) games one of the best parts is looking forward to unlocking that next skill/ability. Seems like that games would stall out.

This kinda thing is why it's an optional non-standard thing not everyone plays. Not all groups like the kind of power associated with mid-high levels, so they just keep playing the low ones. I'm not one of these people. I love my twelve-dimensional caster chess.

[martixy]

A more elaborate answer than I would care to scribe at this time.

[Knaight]

So no more class features, no base attack or saving throw increases, to new spells known or per day? Does gear continue to improve? Seems sort of boring. As an avid player of RPG (video) games one of the best parts is looking forward to unlocking that next skill/ability. Seems like that games would stall out.

The mechanical side slows dramatically, but that's the point. Whether they stall out or not depends on what people are playing for - I'm perfectly happy to play a game with no mechanical advancement at all, it clearly wouldn't work for you.

[Cosi]

While the original version of E6 grants feats after 6th level, I don't think that's necessary or advantageous. Additional feats mean different things to different characters, and giving them away still results in power imbalances of the kind E6 tries to avoid (albeit, along different lines). If you don't want to advance past 6th, don't advance past 6th.

[Grod_The_Giant]

While the original version of E6 grants feats after 6th level, I don't think that's necessary or advantageous. Additional feats mean different things to different characters, and giving them away still results in power imbalances of the kind E6 tries to avoid (albeit, along different lines). If you don't want to advance past 6th, don't advance past 6th.

Hmm, I've never looked at it, but my suspicion is that it generally comes out better for martial characters (who tend to suffer from feat taxes, especially at low levels) than casters?

[Mato]

I see people using the term e6 game or e8 game. What is it?

A custom rules format designed for less powerful play and more Tolkin-styled fantasy campaigns by directly capping progression and offering bonus feats instead of benefits you'd normally gain by simply having more levels to acquire. But it's players uncreatively misread the rules so they can have 9th level spells by level 6 and it's DMs offer gestalt so they can circumvent the entire point of the custom rules.

[JoshuaZ]

A custom rules format designed for less powerful play and more Tolkin-styled fantasy campaigns by directly capping progression and offering bonus feats instead of benefits you'd normally gain by simply having more levels to acquire. But it's players uncreatively misread the rules so they can have 9th level spells by level 6 and it's DMs offer gestalt so they can circumvent the entire point of the custom rules.

I don't think the first is fair. Getting 9ths in E6 is clearly and completely against the spirit of the rules, but finding ways to do so often involve a lot of clever use of mechanics. That's essentially completely TO. As for the gestalting, gestalt E6 actually doesn't work that badly and does keep the power level pretty low.

[Cosi]

Hmm, I've never looked at it, but my suspicion is that it generally comes out better for martial characters (who tend to suffer from feat taxes, especially at low levels) than casters?

Generally what will happen is that martials will get to complete more feat chains, which gives them a wider range of capabilities but little additional power, and casters will get to stack ever more metamagic onto their spells, giving them relatively few new abilities but lots of raw power. In general, this is favorable to the casters.

[digiman619]

In general, this is favorable to the casters.

3.5 in a nutshell, ladies and gents.

[JoshuaZ]

Generally what will happen is that martials will get to complete more feat chains, which gives them a wider range of capabilities but little additional power, and casters will get to stack ever more metamagic onto their spells, giving them relatively few new abilities but lots of raw power. In general, this is favorable to the casters.

The real problem is the +0 metamagic feats which let one then put them all on a spell, and the +1s are still strong on top of that. Combining with things like the Spell Focus feats it adds up. But the caster v. martial disparity is much smaller than it is in regular 3.5 or PF.

[Stryyke]

I just wanted to chime in really quick, if it's ok. I know the standard is 1000 xp per feat, but I often find that progression is too slow at that rate. Depending on which feats you use, and how they are balanced, that number can become pretty much anything. I think a faster progression is better for player morale, so I use 100 xp, and use modified versions of the feats. I often have the feats grow with the character, rather than having to take another feat to get another +1.

I'm not saying it's the best way, but it's the balance I find I like the best.

[molten_dragon]

So no more class features, no base attack or saving throw increases, to new spells known or per day? Does gear continue to improve? Seems sort of boring. As an avid player of RPG (video) games one of the best parts is looking forward to unlocking that next skill/ability. Seems like that games would stall out.

It's definitely not for everyone. Personally, if I want a gritty low-powered game I'll just play a different system. But some people really like it.