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2011-11-29, 10:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
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Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Haley is Ian's only living relative.. However, he also has a sister Ivy.
Why is Haley surprised to hear of Miko's death. As far as Haley knows, Miko was in the prison, with Nale, when it blew up. And she assumed that Nale was dead. Why didn't she assume the same about Miko?
Why does Nale think that Elan is the leader of OOTS (panel 3). He knows that Elan follows Roy. in fact that's the root of his hatred of Elan.
Any others?.
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-29, 10:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
- Location
- Michigan
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Well put together but the last one with V following elan is a bit of a stretch. Doesn't necessarily mean Elan is the leader, he could just be a more senior member than V. I haven't read the origins book so I don't actually know. So feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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2011-11-29, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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2011-11-29, 10:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
To be fair, at no point does anyone besides Elan claim that Nale is dead. In fact, if she assumed the Linear Guild was gone, her comments regarding recurring villains here and here would make little sense.
Uh, V is not mentioned anywhere in the OP nor in those 2 strips.Never mind, I always think of that other strip whenever "Nale thinks Elan is the leader" is discussed.
But anyway, I'm guessing Nale just meant "his allies." Also, even if he knows Roy is the leader, I think his ego refuses to believe that someone genetically identical to him is a follower and not a leader.Last edited by Gift Jeraff; 2011-11-29 at 11:03 PM.
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2011-11-29, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Nale thinks of Elan as the leader of the Order of the Stick because that serves his ego better than admitting that he's the evil twin of a mere follower. Compare Tarquin's immediate assumption that Elan is the leader of his group.
Like Crystal, Nale never lets what he knows get in the way of what he wants to believe.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2011-11-29, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2011-11-29, 10:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Because Miko is a major recurring villain, and in fact had proven herself to be the second most dangerous opponent the OOTS had, and could even be argued to be the most dangerous (Xykon never beat the whole team by himself, nor was he interested in taking them out with the precision Miko was)
Haley is suspicious enough that it seems reasonable to assume she had been considering the possibility of Miko's return ever since Azure City, and the news that, no, she is actually really dead and the OOTS hadn't had to defeat her came as quite the shock.
To be fair, she also didn't seem "surprised" about Nale, she seemed to have suspicions for him as well, she just likely was expecting an actual ambush, rather than a "Hey here's Thog!" ambush :POfficial Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2011-11-29, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Here's a literal plot hole for ya:
The snarl's rift moving from the Azurite Palace to Xykon's tower with little explanation.
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2011-11-29, 10:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Oh, right. I was thinking of this strip.
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2011-11-29, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2010
- Location
- Chicagolandia
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
The "didn't know about the rebel leader named Ivy" is totally a good explanation.
Since as far as Haley knew, both Nale and Miko were in the same pile of rubble. If she heard Miko died, she probably assumed Nale and Thog did too, since they were in the same exact prison tower.
And Nale is an egomaniac who wants to beat his brother. Beat his brother, because his brother beat him. Thinking that Elan is a follower of somebody insults Nale and thenNALETHOG SMASH.
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2011-11-29, 10:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Official Incense Aroma Specialist for the Vaarsuvius Fan Club!
English isn't my primary language, so please let me know if something I'm saying doesn't make sense!Continuation of ThePhantasm's awesometacular post
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2011-11-29, 10:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
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2011-11-29, 10:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Did I miss something where Ivy was stated to be a sufficiently high profile rebel leader?
Even if Ivy herself is known, there can also be a mix-up in the records as to whether or not she is related to Ian. She’s a Bleedingham Starshine, and he’s a Greysky Starshine, after all.The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2011-11-29, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Somewhere over there ->
- Gender
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2011-11-29, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
.
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-30, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- Chicagolandia
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
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2011-11-30, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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- Penthouse Suite
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2011-11-30, 01:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2003
- Location
- Philadelphia, PA
- Gender
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Miko defeated the entire OOTS while Nale could no longer even beat just Elan. It is entirely reasonable for one to be more surprised that an explosion killed Miko than that it killed Nale. And further, Haley never stated that she thought Nale was definitively dead, merely that the presence of Thog proved that he was definitively alive. Before that moment, he was Schrodinger's Brother. Elan was the one who assumed he was definitely dead.
Nale being told something is not the same thing as Nale hearing something, much less understanding or internalizing it. Not when it conflicts with his self-image.
The two images of the rift linked are several months apart, and the rift was still growing during that time.
And finally, something is not a "plot hole" if one can reasonably come up with a plausible explanation for it using just the information given in the work itself, even if I don't spell out that explanation in the text. Not every reaction that every character has is going to be explained in explicit detail. It's possible to draw your own conclusions based on what you know about them as people rather than assuming that the author made an error of some kind.
(And yes, I didn't answer the Ivy question intentionally. The story isn't over yet.)Rich Burlew
Now Available: 2023 OOTS Holiday Ornament plus a big pile of new t-shirt designs (that you can also get on mugs and stuff)!
~~You can also support The Order of the Stick and the GITP forum at Patreon.~~
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2011-11-30, 03:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Oh, I've got another plot hole. Fyron's son. Did he just get retconned out of existance?
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2011-11-30, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Location
- Copenhagen, Denmark
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Last edited by Tass; 2011-11-30 at 07:36 AM.
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2011-11-30, 08:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Obviously, she's undead.
Why does Nale think that Elan is the leader of OOTS (panel 3). He knows that Elan follows Roy. in fact that's the root of his hatred of Elan.
Also, Master Fyron's son anyone?
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2011-11-30, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Or
Deathless“Some sort of positive energy spirit, possibly homebrewed or cribbed off another campaign setting!”
Or how about a Construct?The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2011-11-30, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Dear Mr Giant,
I wish you to know that I am a great admirer of your work. I think it is the best comic on the internet. Please do not think of this thread as being a negative review of your work.
When an author spends several years on a series his ideas sometimes change, develop and improve. Years after starting he might get a new idea that he didn't think of at the start. Sometimes the new ideas may contradict the old ones. This is not a mistake, but the author's privilege to change his mind.
It is sometimes interesting to observe how an author's ideas have changed and evolved over time. Pointing out that there is a contradiction between two strips several years apart does not equal a criticism of your work. Please don't think you have to defend against them, or try to find a convincing explanation for them. All you have to do is say "I changed my mind" and that is good enough..
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-30, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Gotham City
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Are you suggesting that Rich is trying to avoid admitting a plot hole or something? These aren't real plot holes, as numerous explanations (including Rich's) have attested in the thread. He doesn't have to admit a change of mind if the change of mind didn't happen.
Surely Rich knows that an author's mind might change over the course of writing a work. He's been at this awhile. I'm not sure why you felt a long in depth explanation of all this was necessary?
When Redcloak said that the rift had already grown to be massive. There is only so much you can show in a strip panel.Last edited by ThePhantasm; 2011-11-30 at 10:57 AM.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2011-11-30, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2008
- Gender
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
.
-.____________________
./___________________()-------Ron Miel
|...___________________--------sits down
|..| |_________________()-------and starts
|..|/__________________--------singing
| ___________________()-------about gold
.
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2011-11-30, 11:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
But in Haley's mind, she's still the tough chick who beat up 5/6 of the Order twice. Even if she knew that Roy single-handedly laid the smackdown on her, she didn't witness it herself and thus still had the biased view that Miko is like a roach.
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2011-11-30, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
The Future just ain’t what it used to be.
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2011-11-30, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Germany
- Gender
Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
really? Because the rift information linked are:
Rift on top of castle ruin, and this is rather close in time with Redcloaks information of the rift not growing much anymore and the rift maybe slightly larger, still on top of castle ruin. Or was there really several months between 545 and 658, and Redcloak was utterly wrong? Or were there several months between 510 and 545?
In 658, the tendrils of the rift are much closer to Xykons tower than you would expect from previous comics.
This is imho just minor nitpicking though. We don't see the rift itself in 658, only the tendrils. It falls under artistic license: The tower and the rift are much farther away from each other, but if the real distance were shown, it wouldn't be possible to draw V and O in the tower, and the distance would be much more wasted space, and so on.participate in fan translations of OotS to your native language:
English transcript, Deutsche Übersetzung
(links to dormant projects from others: Traduzione italiano,
Traducción español, Tradução em português, Traductions françaises [- trois fois!], מסדר המקלתרגום עברית )
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2011-11-30, 11:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
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Re: Minor plot holes, contradictions, and other nit-picks
Indeed, the one plot hole I'm not really convinced there's a solution to was Fyron's son, but that was early in the comic.
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2011-11-30, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2005
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- By a Park
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