Afterlife 2

[gac3]

Can I get a legacy reads/thoughts list before your death?

Also I am going to sleep now. Rest in peace.

Maybe? Let me see.

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I feel like I might look suspicious throwing my vote back at gac3, but I agree with your reasoning, so doing it anyways.

Don't know if I'll have time to do a full breakdown of reads or anything before EOD but this stands out as.. bad. "I might look suspicious for doing this but you have a really good point about not voting the narrator". So if that was the entirety of the logic and you thought it would make you look bad to vote me, why not just start a new wagon?

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Town points to Taff for trying to ensure conversation is going. Starting a second wagon and trying to start conversations.

[Saint-Just]

This is untrue. I knew AV was narrator. Again. My options for self preservation vote were AV and SupaGoof. Well I know that I am a vanilla townie. Maybe all townies are. I don't know what SupaGoof is but they haven't given me reason to think they are a wolf yet. Their wagon was based on "gac shouldn't be the only wagon". So I voted the narrator because I wasn't overly concerned with if I died because town would only lose my mind which isn't as adept as others at traditional wolf hunting and I was also curious what would happen if we killed the narrator, (probably nothing.)

For the record, Snowblaze? These were the possible reasons I guessed, defending themselves without killing another villager and wanting to kill the narrator. They seemed obvious to me but then I noticed Taffimai's analysis is using another interpretation of gac's actions, so I sought to clear the matter. Openly.

I probably should ask - is posting strongly encrypted statement and then revealing the key disallowed? I know last time ciphers were used they were solved and that is definitely not a normal course of action but realistically unsolvable stuff is available.

[gac3]

For the record, Snowblaze? These were the possible reasons I guessed, defending themselves without killing another villager and wanting to kill the narrator. They seemed obvious to me but then I noticed Taffimai's analysis is using another interpretation of gac's actions, so I sought to clear the matter. Openly.

I probably should ask - is posting strongly encrypted statement and then revealing the key disallowed? I know last time ciphers were used they were solved and that is definitely not a normal course of action but realistically unsolvable stuff is available.

I am unsure and this is not legal advice but I think posting a code is against the rules but not so complex riddles seem to have been gotten away with in the past.


Total reads:

Flame seems off but might just be new?

Taff is my biggest read so far as town. Though I don't really know what they are like as a wolf. But right now I'm feeling good about them for day one.

Snow would be getting town points but I know snow well enough to know that the only way to really know who they are is to examine their corpse.

And everyone else I have no idea.

[Taffimai]

I probably should ask - is posting strongly encrypted statement and then revealing the key disallowed? I know last time ciphers were used they were solved and that is definitely not a normal course of action but realistically unsolvable stuff is available.

No, using ciphers is against the general forum rules. Though some people have a terrible, terrible memory.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

So, ciphers aren't allowed, but you can hint at stuff in other ways (last game people put extra spaces in their posts to highlight certain words).

Still on mobile, but I assume we're cool with night talking now? I'll give more reads at some point.

[gac3]

So, ciphers aren't allowed, but you can hint at stuff in other ways (last game people put extra spaces in their posts to highlight certain words).

Still on mobile, but I assume we're cool with night talking now? I'll give more reads at some point.

Well day hasn't ended yet has it? I mean I think it was supposed to but hasn't yet.

[flame12]

Well day hasn't ended yet has it? I mean I think it was supposed to but hasn't yet.

Should have ended already. AV might just be taking a while to type out the next post?

[Taffimai]

Bastard mode: Day 1 never ends!

So, ciphers aren't allowed, but you can hint at stuff in other ways (last game people put extra spaces in their posts to highlight certain words).

I also remember someone who would spell out their role with the first letters of an early post to use it as proof later. Aventine, I think, but I'm not sure. This was an older game, and I'm not sure they still play.

[gac3]

Bastard mode: Day 1 never ends!



I also remember someone who would spell out their role with the first letters of an early post to use it as proof later. Aventine, I think, but I'm not sure. This was an older game, and I'm not sure they still play.

There is also a "code" in this post that has been okay in the past. Let me know if you find it.

[Taffimai]

There is also a "code" in this post that has been okay in the past. Let me know if you find it.

Is it "Hi"?

[gac3]

Is it "Hi"?

Yep. Some of us used to hide hints like that early on.

[Taffimai]

Yep. Some of us used to hide hints like that early on.

I don't think I would have spotted it if I weren't actively looking. Now can you find mine?

[gac3]

I don't think I would have spotted it if I weren't actively looking. Now can you find mine?

So far no. Is it in this post or should I be looking beyond?

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler: Vote Count

Show

Supagoof: Book Wombat, Saint-Just
gac3: CaoimhinTheCape, flame12, moonfly7, Taffimai
Snowblaze: Supagoof
moonfly7: gac3, Snowblaze

End Of Day One

Some blamed each other. Some blamed God. Some blamed the site's manager. The ghostbusters blamed the wrong person, and that's all that really matters.

gac3 has been lynched. They were a Vanillager.

Night One Ends In ~24 hours

[Taffimai]

So far no. Is it in this post or should I be looking beyond?

It's in a similar spot to yours

[Saint-Just]

It's in a similar spot to yours

I found yours, for the record. And I remember seeing a few other tricks in the archive.

Also: backup players are here to take over in case of inactivity, I presume?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Alright, some reads I promised.

Snowblaze questioned most players throughout the day, doing good work for Day 1 scumhunting.
Saint-Just has some mechanic talk, and the reasoning for voting Supagoof over gac feels like Town. Yeah, no, I like this.
flame12 threw a lampshade on their vote for gac. My instinct is mafia wouldn't do this, but flame is new so I'm putting too much stock in that. Asked a question about the AV votes. Would like more, but not top of my list (or bottom, as it were).
Taffimai a good amount of activity, appreciate the reads list. There was a little weirdness of wanting Moon/gac as competing wagons, but not moving to either. Now that gac flipped town, Taff moving away from Goof/not onto Moon could be mafia protecting a buddy/ensuring a town lynch.
moonfly7 discusses what the mechanic may be, votes AV then gac. Becomes a wagon for wording on one of his posts. And is apparently a possible wagon for tomorrow? I don't see that great a reason to vote moon right now, but nothing to push him up to town.
Libro is inactive. Whether he shows up or is replaced, we've missed out on a Day of activity regardless of whether Libro shows or someone steps in. I don't like giving people a pass, but lynching Libro gives us nothing but a flip.
Supagoof a couple posts, but mostly asks meta things (comment about lynching AV, bastard mechanic). Also, no info.
Book Wombat had an initial vote and then explained something about last game. No info.


So, If I'm picking anyone as my top lynch options, it'd be Book/Goof. If I'm picking someone with decent activity, I guess it would be between Moon/Taff but at this point I'm a bit more worried of scum coasting a Day without discussing much. With a small group of players, hiding for even one Day might put off your lynch enough to get you to endgame.

[Snowblaze]

Guess who should still be asleep?

Disappointed but not too surprised by the gac flip.

@Taffimai, why the sudden talk about codes and ciphers? Also now you've established I didn't bus gac, who are your suspects?

@Caoimhin, why is wagoning Supagoof and BW and giving Moonfly and Taffimai a pass better than the other way round, since we can agree that the latter are suspicious and the former aren't particularly?

I have vague legacy reads which I'll post this afternoon when I'm not supposed to be either sleeping or getting on with stuff.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

@Caoimhin, why is wagoning Supagoof and BW and giving Moonfly and Taffimai a pass better than the other way round, since we can agree that the latter are suspicious and the former aren't particularly?

Assuming one kill each Night, we'll be at eight Players to start Day 2 and six players to start Day 3. If we're not paying attention to Goof/Book, they can post once or twice to join a wagon and avoid autolynch. If either is maf and they can quietly jump in to vote a townie, why wouldn't they?

Do you want to enter Day 3 with three players who have been posting, Libro's assumed replacement, and two players who we have no info on?

Maybe the best way is to pick one of Goof/BW and one of Moon/Taff to pressure as our two wagons. But I don't want to leave them alone.

[Taffimai]

@Taffimai, why the sudden talk about codes and ciphers? Also now you've established I didn't bus gac, who are your suspects?

One of the new players asked about ciphers and then there was idle conversation while waiting for AV, but my guess is that you already know that now that you've had time to read up properly. You did not bus Gac, and I don't think a wolf would leave a nice cozy spot on a townie wagon to draw attention (and suspicion) to themselves by pushing Moonfly for "that post feels off". I am therefore willing to vote with you tomorrow, though I would feel better about that if your hunch were more than just a hunch.

You are, however, asking me for suspicions at night, which helps the wolves pick targets. Town points retracted Caoimhin this blue is there specifically for you because I'm making a jokey reference to one of Snow's earlier posts and I don't want you to go "If you don't think she's town why are you voting with her?"
Seriously though, I'll elaborate more tomorrow if I'm still alive.

[Snowblaze]

Okay, back. Yeah, I must have misrembered/misinterpreted events with the cipher thing this morning. That makes sense. And if I'm right, which I may very well not be, then I can now make an actual solve. (Note: if I'm dead tomorrow and Taffimai doesn't vote Moonfly, kill her unless she has a very good explanation.)

Caoimhin... yeah, that's a bad situation. But it's not any better than your alternative. If Moonfly flips town we at least learn that I was wrong about stuff and can re-evaluate going into MyLo day three. If Supagoof/BW flips town we only learn that the person playing the same way they do every game was town.

Basically we're screwed unless we kill a wolf tomorrow, so we should vote the people who are most likely to be wolves.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Caoimhin... yeah, that's a bad situation. But it's not any better than your alternative. If Moonfly flips town we at least learn that I was wrong about stuff and can re-evaluate going into MyLo day three. If Supagoof/BW flips town we only learn that the person playing the same way they do every game was town.

Basically we're screwed unless we kill a wolf tomorrow, so we should vote the people who are most likely to be wolves.

So the Wolves are most likely to be posting and engaging in discussion (Moon/Taff) than laying low and not making waves (Book/Goof)?

The goal of voting for Goof/BW isn't seeing their flip in a vacuum. The goal of voting Goof/BW is getting them to engage in the conversation and give us reads/votes. If I end up moving off of them, fine, but I would like to start there and see what I find.

I won't have much time today but I'll take a look at Goof tonight, since there was something of a wagon on him Day 1. We'll see if there's anything we would learn from knowing Goof's alignment and how that reflects on others.

[Snowblaze]

Also I'm asking for suspicions at night because I think I have a high chance of dying tonight, which means I need answers now if I'm going to get to a solve that I can feel okay about.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Yeah, I'm not as worried about giving reads at Night anymore. I don't see how my list is giving the Wolves things they didn't already know. Especially when not much happened Day 1, we could use all the time we have.


On that note, I don't see Book, Goof, or Libro dying tonight so I'd be curious to see any of their reads ASAP.

[Snowblaze]

So the Wolves are most likely to be posting and engaging in discussion (Moon/Taff) than laying low and not making waves (Book/Goof)?

The goal of voting for Goof/BW isn't seeing their flip in a vacuum. The goal of voting Goof/BW is getting them to engage in the conversation and give us reads/votes. If I end up moving off of them, fine, but I would like to start there and see what I find.

I won't have much time today but I'll take a look at Goof tonight, since there was something of a wagon on him Day 1. We'll see if there's anything we would learn from knowing Goof's alignment and how that reflects on others.

Yes, imo they are in this instance. And you agree with that too, because you said as much in your reads list.

But. I know Supagoof and BW well enough to know that's not going to tell us much. Supagoof is busy at weekends and will come back and contribute to some extent regardless of whether he's being wagoned, and BW will play the way he plays, wagon or no wagon. You've been around enough recently that you should know that, too.

...you can tell where I'm going with this, can't you?

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So.

Spoiler: Large wallpost

Show

SJ can be town. I don't really believe in that on a gut level, but my concerns can be explained by newness and playstyle difference, and with the gac flip they don't really fit in any of the worlds I've considered (except maybe the "yesterday's wagons and the current suspects are all town and we're screwed" world, but I'd rather not consider that.)

flame and Supagoof have posted quite a bit and I'm not actively wolfreading them, which is more than I can say for a lot of others so I don't think they should be considered any time soon.

Book Wombat is still Book Wombat. Could be a wolf, but when other players have been actively wolfy I don't want to go there rn.

Libro hasn't posted, so waiting for him to show up or be replaced before I can figure that slot out.

Taffimai's last post negated most of my reasons to wolfread her. My tinfoil thing about ciphers and the bastard mechanic is irrelevant and the most likely wolf motivation for her weird voting yesterday is that she's partnered with Moonfly in which case she's now committed to bussing her partner and we should let her.

Not exactly a watertight POE even by my standards, but I actually have pretty decent confidence in the remaining names being wolves.

My Moonfly read is large parts gut feeling and hard-to-put-into-words stuff. I've tried a bit, but for another way of seeing it go read their day one from UPick and compare it to this. Granted the two games were pretty different in activity levels but I'd still expect to see at least some of the same towny fire as there was then.

And Caoimhin. Firstly there's the fact they produced their reads list after I called them out for not contributing or driving discussion enough, but more important than that is the whole Supagoof/BW thing. I am never going to agree with that reasoning, but more importantly I don't think it's something town!Caoimhin would produce, which implies a wolfy agenda... how about keeping their partner Moonfly alive for that one more day?

tl;dr I think the wolfteam is exactly Caoimhin/Moonfly.

"But I disagree with that!"

Fair enough. I'm wrong a lot and I have nothing to say this isn't one of those times. Explain why you disagree and maybe we can reach an accurate solve, if this isn't it.

"Your logic makes sense, but I'm not convinced."

Again, fair enough. But not very helpful. Uncertainty is fine, but at some point you have to commit to something. If it's not this, please suggest an alternative.

"But how do I know this isn't a wolfy plot?"

You don't, but there's a good chance you will in a few hours and can inspect my corpse or whatever gac said. If that doesn't happen I can work through concerns/towncase myself tomorrow.

"But what if there are three wolves?"

a) we were screwed from the beginning.
b) Caoimhin/Moonfly/x but I don't have any strong ideas on who "x" should be.

"It's night two. You're dead (well, deader) and Moonfly just flipped town. What do we do?"

Panic. Seriously, though, I can't re-evaluate in advance even if I had the energy so you'll have to figure that one out yourselves. Good luck with that.

Right, I am now going to collapse from exhaustion and sleep deprivation. See you tomorrow, in postgame or in deadchat depending on how things go.

[moonfly7]

Since I don't have any townreads, let's talk about reasons to wolfread people.

Moonfly - that post I mentioned earlier, plus I thought their gac read was pretty hedgy.

gac - thought processes make no sense, thinking voting for the narrator is a good move.

I'm not really sure how you can say my "had read was hedgy". I basically said the exact same things you did about gac in this exact post.
Now fairness where it's do, Gac and I had basically the exact same problem: we voted AV, and then the wagon became serious somehow, and then we were both being voted for before we could put real votes in. So any votes we made afterwards looked suspicious.
Aaaand now Gacs dead and innocent and I still look suspicious for the same things that got him ganked. I'd love to supply an alternative vote, but nothing really springs out at me.
Taffs reasoning is actually really solid, so is there agreement to compromise and vote me tomorrow. I mean, I don't like it, but it makes sense. The turn around to agreeing to vote for me felt a little off, but if one of the 2 other wagons suddenly dies and is innocent, you generally vote for one of the living ones next. So it tracks.
Snow is, well, snow. Snows posts always have this strange nervous energy to me, which is why I voted them first last game. The hopping around accusing people quickly with rapid fire arguments and pushing the bill. This time now that I'm a tad more experienced, I find the behavior more helpful than suspicious. Still feels off to me but I'm really not sure, but for the foreseeable future, I'd think snow is town and doing a good job making people talk.

More reads later, since I'll likely die tomorrow and this way I can contribute something.

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note for when snow wakes up: my posting energy and frequency has been low because of IRL stuff. Even in other parts of the forum I've only hit one or two posts a day, and I'm in quite a few frequently posting RP threads.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Ehh, not surprised by Snow being suspicious of me. I don't see where I say posting is more suspicious than not, I feel like I've been pretty clear that staying quiet and not making waves would be a good strategy here.

I guess we'll just disagree. Saying "I know Supagoof a d BW well enough to know [voting/pressuring them is] not going to tell us much" sounds an awful lot like asking people not to vote a wolf buddy. If I didn't have such a townread on you, I could say that you're just trying to get them through one more Day.



I'd ask you for more info on your reads but you were pretty thorough. I don't see how Taff's recent post is enough to clear anything. I also hard disagree with "Supagoof has posted a bit". 3 posts and if I remember right one post was just for a joke related to voting AV and I don't remember any particularly Towne content in the others.

[Taffimai]

My Moonfly read is large parts gut feeling and hard-to-put-into-words stuff. I've tried a bit, but for another way of seeing it go read their day one from UPick and compare it to this. Granted the two games were pretty different in activity levels but I'd still expect to see at least some of the same towny fire as there was then.

And Caoimhin. Firstly there's the fact they produced their reads list after I called them out for not contributing or driving discussion enough, but more important than that is the whole Supagoof/BW thing. I am never going to agree with that reasoning, but more importantly I don't think it's something town!Caoimhin would produce, which implies a wolfy agenda... how about keeping their partner Moonfly alive for that one more day?

tl;dr I think the wolfteam is exactly Caoimhin/Moonfly.

<snip>

"It's night two. You're dead (well, deader) and Moonfly just flipped town. What do we do?"

Panic. Seriously, though, I can't re-evaluate in advance even if I had the energy so you'll have to figure that one out yourselves. Good luck with that.

Ok I have one question I don't want to leave till tomorrow: If Moonfly flips town, does that negate enough of your feelings about Caoimhin not to suspect him anymore (assuming the game isn't over)?

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Or, in other words: in the unlikely event that the wolves kill Moonfly (which they won't thanks to this lovely discussion we're having here), will you still want to lynch Caoimhin tomorrow?

I'm asking because your suspicions against them don't really seem all that related (apart from the BW/SG suggestion), yet in the bottom part of your post it looks like you'd give up on both for having been proved wrong on just one. Is that low self-esteem or does Caoimhin as wolf only make sense to you when paired with Moonfly? Why not, for example, both him and me?

[AvatarVecna]

I have detected an interesting issue with using forum PMs for private comms: PMs and posts can't occur too close together, so it's harder to spam everything at once. With QT, the window where somebody might have too much information is maybe 30 seconds at most depending on where they are in my order, but with this, it can be many minutes depending on how many power roles there are. Makes me glad this is a low-PR game.

End Of Night One

Grim clues painted a grisly picture for the investigators that night: one of the men who worked there had always been suspiciously quiet and kept to himself frequently. Clues were discovered that hinted at a sinister layer beneath the surface of this mild-mannered façade, and so the investigators had him exorcised.

Turns out, he was just a quiet person who did his job and didn't make drama, and it creeped his coworkers out. Nothing sinister.

Libro was killed. They were a Vanillager.

Day Two Ends In ~48 Hours

[Taffimai]

Oh good, you aren't dead

Normally, today, if there weren't other options, I would vote Wombat to get rid of a potential wolf who's trying to fly under the radar, but now there are better options. Wombat if you read this please stay silent, I'd much rather have a substitute thanks.

First of all: Moonfly

@Taffimai, why the sudden talk about codes and ciphers? Also now you've established I didn't bus gac, who are your suspects?

Now, I promised to elaborate, and I've been itching to do so: yes, my suspicions have changed. Saint Just looks slightly more town to me because with Gac flipping town, the one driving the main counterwagon looks better.

Mainly though, Caoimhin. He pressured me to get off of Supagoof without trying to particularly convince me to vote Gac. It irked me at the time that apparently, a Gac-Moonfly tie was better to him than a Gac-Supagoof tie, which looks very much like a buddy-buddy thing to me. I rejected it at the time because I'm aware of being biased. I'm biased because Caoimhin has suspected me a lot and it feels personal. I mean, I voted for his choice and still he's seeing me as prime lynch material rather than apologising. On top of that, I know I'm biased against players with a particular play style. I suspected Mr. Popo in Love Letter, and Rogan last game. Players who come in strong with the suspicions will just always look wolf to me.

So I need to know: if Moonfly is town, could I be right? Why not?