Afterlife

[Xihirli]

That's true from your perspective, but I have one more piece of info: my role. So I'm voting Cao.

[gac3]

I like this plan but a wolf wouldn't. So I should be online near EOD to combat any potential CFD nonsense.

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That's true from your perspective, but I have one more piece of info: my role. So I'm voting Cao.

Makes sense. But from my perspective, Cao would say the same thing.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

CaoimhinTheCape why would voting Gac here to see because Gac claims he would self-vote a scum move?

Scum would have a free choice of two townies if I was last wolf.

Sussing me over my for-fun move is not a great look tbh.

When I logged in today to see if y'all posted, I saw there were a few things.

First post was Xihirli, who voted the person who voted her with no consideration that they might be town. I would assume that Town would take time to consider both options rather than pick one person and telling the other "it's up to you."

And then I thought, the only thing that would be scummier is if someone ignored any cases and just voted the Medium. Which you did.

Look, it's great that you voted gac to try and bring out the Wolf. I'm sorry that I interrupted your for-fun move but we only have 24 hours left and you didn't say a word about who you thought was bad. I'd rather we use our time with discussing than waiting. Sussing you for not saying anything helpful is fine.

Blade was very behind killing the most recent dead wolf. Gac is pretty lock neutral, but might be a serial killer with no kill ability. Somehow. So I think it's down to Cao or I.

So, you know, I know my role. So... Cao.

I outlined my case yesterday but I can bring back the quote if you'd like. I played a role in killing the first Wolf. The votes were Snowblaze-4, RA-3, Apogee-2, Aventine-2. Snow and RA were looking to save each other by voting another wagon. If I were a Wolf, I could have voted Aventine to make it 3 and tried to get Snow and RA to follow. There's a reasonable shot of that happening and not only would I save Apogee but after the mislynch there would be suspicion on the people who voted Ave.


I'm going back to Xihirli since that was my instinct anyway.

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---

Vote Count... I guess??

Xihirli (1): CaoimhinTheCape
CaoimhinTheCape (2): Xihirli, Bladescape
Gac3 (1): gac3

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I would have offered a deal, but you didn't try to contact me and I'm not a Wolf.

Interesting.

Also, if I wanted a free QT with gac I would have killed you last night. I think Murska would trust me over Xi and I'd be able to work something out with you gone.

[Xihirli]

Bussing happens. Heck, you could say most of the same things about my vote for Apogee. There was still a way out for Apogee when I voted, and I'm not pretending that does a thing to exonerate me.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Bussing happens. Heck, you could say most of the same things about my vote for Apogee. There was still a way out for Apogee when I voted, and I'm not pretending that does a thing to exonerate me.

When you voted, Apogee was at 4 and the closest wagon was at 3. You could've tied it, sure, but my vote had more of an impact in making it happen. Out of all of us, Murska gets the most credit but that's probably why he's dead.

Plus, I mean, there's the other stuff:

Xihirli
- Votes BW Day 3. BW claims a power, Xi thinks BW's actions are scummy. I guess this is more Neutral but it's reasonable to think the Wolves wouldn't have two of the exact same power, plus BW could verify overnight.
- Does not vote (or comment on) BCH, a Wolf.
- Votes gac, all but confirmed Neutral Day 4. Comments Ave is being silent. No one gets town points for Day 4 aside from Ave (even if it is too late).

On Day 3 you decide to vote Book Wombat and don't comment on BatCatHat at all. Book Wombat was someone whose role could be verified, a role that the Wolves already had (with Apogee).

You spent Day 4 voting the basically confirmed Neutral. None of us did anything spectacular Day 4 but at least we voted for someone we thought was a Wolf. It's almost like placing a vote on gac isn't all that helpful to town.

[bladescape]

I have a feeling on who is the wolf but if we mislynch, town loses. If we lynch me, town has 50/50 shot tomorrow. Honestly, we could even end after lunching me and have AV randomly select the winner unless there is some secret 3rd party.

So I figure lynching me is better than a mislynch, even if not as good as a proper lynch.

I hate arguing with a confirmed neutral, but town's 50/50 isn't down to play but literally coinflip. Today we can at least debate it out.

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Cao, weren't you the second vote on Apogee not the third?

[Xihirli]

I maintain that my arguments against Book were totally valid with the information we had; the only counterarguments were assumptions. The fact that they turned out to be accurate is luck, not analysis.

[gac3]

I hate arguing with a confirmed neutral, but town's 50/50 isn't down to play but literally coinflip. Today we can at least debate it out.

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Cao, weren't you the second vote on Apogee not the third?

I am just saying I trust my reads less than a 50/50 coin toss. If you trust yours more, then feel free not to lynch me.

- - - Updated - - -

Also there is the detail that it took 24 hours pretty much for conversation to really start.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Cao, weren't you the second vote on Apogee not the third?

Sort of. If i remember right, Snow and RA both voted for Apogee, then I did, and then RA moved off to vote himself. So I ended up second but RA already showed willingness to vote.

Will verify/post more when I'm not on mobile.

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Yeah, I was third but RA moved his vote before coming back. Up to you if you wanna count that as second or third.

- - - Updated - - -

I maintain that my arguments against Book were totally valid with the information we had; the only counterarguments were assumptions. The fact that they turned out to be accurate is luck, not analysis.

I guess we gotta disagree then. On posts alone I would have voted Book at some point, but Wolves aren't going to have the same power twice. One more night would have confirmed Book or given us better reason to lynch. Meanwhile, there's this other Wolf hanging around that we should go after.

I am just saying I trust my reads less than a 50/50 coin toss. If you trust yours more, then feel free not to lynch me.

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Also there is the detail that it took 24 hours pretty much for conversation to really start.

I'm not doing a coin toss on purpose. Win or lose, I'd like it to be over actual discussion. But gac is exactly right, it took half the day to get any talk started. That's what made me feel you deserved a vote at that time blade, we need to actually figure this out and you vote the Medium halfway through the day and say nothing else.

Blade, do you have any other reaction to why I voted you? Or anything else I've said?

[Xihirli]

I've already gone over this; all of those reasons to not vote Book are assumptions. So your problem with me was that I was basing my vote off of whether someone was behaving suspiciously, as I have pointed out many times.

[Xihirli]

Ooh! Ooh! I found the actual imposters among us, do I get town cred?

[CaoimhinTheCape]

The back and forth with Xi isn't going anywhere, so we shouldn't keep repeating the argument over and over.


The tl;dr between us is that we both voted Apogee Day 1 so one of us was bussing, my vote on BatCat Day 3 didn't mean much since there was already enough to lynch. Blade, you can look back at our posts and decide which one of us was trying to find Wolves. If you have more questions for me let me know.

Under 12 hours left.

[Xihirli]

The tl;dr between us is that we both voted Apogee Day 1 so one of us was bussing

So you do agree that it's down to one of us.

So when you said this

First post was Xihirli, who voted the person who voted her with no consideration that they might be town. I would assume that Town would take time to consider both options rather than pick one person and telling the other "it's up to you."

And this

Alright, so, uhh, what's the case against me and why is blade cleared?

Was that just obfuscation to just throw arguments at the wall to see what stuck, or...?

Cuz to me, these posts together don't come from someone who wants to kill a wolf. They come from someone who doesn't want to be this day's lynch.

[bladescape]

I actually really like that last set of posts.

- - - Updated - - -

Also kinda feel bad for flipping Aventine half on irritation at their case on me so I'm trying to follow their last wishes from being alive, the point that they think Cao is the most wolfy.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

So you do agree that it's down to one of us.

So when you said this

And this

Was that just obfuscation to just throw arguments at the wall to see what stuck, or...?

Cuz to me, these posts together don't come from someone who wants to kill a wolf. They come from someone who doesn't want to be this day's lynch.

At this point, I agree it's down to us. Coming into the day I (unlike you) came in with an open mind that either one of you is the Wolf. You refuse to see anything other than Wolf!Cao and Town!blade, while Blade is actually considering which one of us is a Wolf.

If you're Town, you're throwing the game away by assuming I'm scum and Blade isn't. So sure, Blade's actions today have made me more sure he is town.



You're also pulling those quotes out of order. The actual order shows that I start by considering either of you as a Wolf, looking at how you each acted today, and then making a decision.

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I actually really like that last set of posts.

- - - Updated - - -

Also kinda feel bad for flipping Aventine half on irritation at their case on me so I'm trying to follow their last wishes from being alive, the point that they think Cao is the most wolfy.

Do you really like the last set of posts for me or Xi? It's not super clear.

I really don't know what to address in the second point. If you agree with Aventine's case, that's up to you. But do it because you believe that I'm actually a Wolf not because you feel bad Ave was lynched.

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Hold on, I need to expand on this cause your last post was terrible. It completely misrepresents my thought process and doesn't take into account your responses. Here's your post below:

The tl;dr between us is that we both voted Apogee Day 1 so one of us was bussing

So you do agree that it's down to one of us.

So when you said this

First post was Xihirli, who voted the person who voted her with no consideration that they might be town. I would assume that Town would take time to consider both options rather than pick one person and telling the other "it's up to you."

And this

Alright, so, uhh, what's the case against me and why is blade cleared?

Was that just obfuscation to just throw arguments at the wall to see what stuck, or...?

Cuz to me, these posts together don't come from someone who wants to kill a wolf. They come from someone who doesn't want to be this day's lynch.

Here are the actual posts, in order:

CaoimhinTheCape.
Sorry, I forgot we were on the day.

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We have three suspects, but realistically we have two. It's me or Cao. Which one do you shoot, Blade and Gac?

Alright, so, uhh, what's the case against me and why is blade cleared?

Blade was very behind killing the most recent dead wolf. Gac is pretty lock neutral, but might be a serial killer with no kill ability. Somehow. So I think it's down to Cao or I.

So, you know, I know my role. So... Cao.

First post was Xihirli, who voted the person who voted her with no consideration that they might be town. I would assume that Town would take time to consider both options rather than pick one person and telling the other "it's up to you."

The tl;dr between us is that we both voted Apogee Day 1 so one of us was bussing, my vote on BatCat Day 3 didn't mean much since there was already enough to lynch. Blade, you can look back at our posts and decide which one of us was trying to find Wolves. If you have more questions for me let me know.

What actually happened was:

You post, saying it's between Cao and Xi.

I post, asking why is blade clear.

You post, explaining that Blade killed BatCat.

I explain why I think your response is bad. I come to the conclusion that you are the Wolf (I vote you in the same post).

In speaking directly to blade, I compare the two of us. When he is looking at the two of us, he knows that whichever person is the Wolf, they bussed Apogee.

[CaoimhinTheCape]

Alright, look. I will put together the total case against Xi for you (blade) to look over. I won't be near a computer before deadline, so this is the last big post but I may be able to respond if I check my phone.

Vote against Apogee
Yes, both of us voted against Apogee. I would argue that my vote was more helpful in getting the wagon started as the third/second vote. I vote early to help make it viable, while Xi only joins late as the 5th vote when the closest wagon is at 3.

I had the option to set up a different wagon with 3 votes (Aventine) which had a better chance of taking off. When Xihirli voted for Apogee, there was no other wagon that could overtake it.

Vote against Book
Look, I know we've had it out over this. But voting for someone who turned out to be a Town Power Role is a big red flag. There was no evidence to prove Book Wombat at the time, but we would be able to get that evidence by the next Day. With at least one other Wolf running around, your time is better spent following other leads.

The argument that the power (specifically Book's ability to make QTs) doesn't prove alignment is wrong. We saw the Wolf version of the role flip. We saw and accepted Gac's Neutral version. There's no world where the Wolves get two versions of that power.

Vote against gac
Day 4. A Day 4 OMGUS vote against the accepted Neutral. How does that help anyone?

Day 5 Stubbornness
A Townie coming in to Day 5 has a choice to make on who they think is a Wolf. The Wolf only needs to pick one target and go for it.

Xihirli refuses to consider the possibility that I'm Town or that blade could be a Wolf. She says that I bussed Apogee with no consideration that blade could have bussed BatCatHat.

And then there's the post where she takes my quotes out of context. She's trying to make it look like I was committed against her and changed my mind, rather than making up my mind as the game continued.

Ignored by the Other Wolves
Apogee and BatCatHat completely ignore Xi. Neither commits to any sort of position on her (by not mentioning Xi at all), allowing them to distance themselves from their buddy if needed.

Spent barely any time hunting Wolves
Look at Xi's posts. I've struck through the posts that don't have new content and are just jokes.

Spoiler: Xihirli's posts

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Spoiler: Xihirli - Day 1

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They say do what you’re good at, and I’m good at this. But I wouldn’t do it for free.

This is my job; I’m no chemist
But I’ll kill rogue_alchemist

Wombat, any thoughts on your random vote gaining traction?

Where's the promised content?

Right!? I'm not even sure we were referencing the same musical!

Okay Gac3 is probably the medium but what if we killed him, then he had a ghost seance, and WE held a seance to talk to him? Can we do psychic inception?

Hey I'm back. Apparently a thousand things are happening but I'm being asked to take my vote off of (one of the) the second place wagon(s) to save the leading wagon? No Lynch for the moment while I go back and read stuff.

Well now I'm confused.

Okay, so

Rogue_Alchemist was the leading wagon until he got a lot of towncred, then things pivoted to Snowblaze because... I'm not clear on that one, and now both of those wagons are teaming up to get Apogee killed because of

Apogee hasn't said much of anything: a sorta random vote on Snow (where it has been all day) and a post believing that gac is the medium. To me, this reads as someone who is happy with how the Day is going and doesn't want to rock the boat (bonus points for the most likely lynches being townreads to me).

Am I caught up?

I don't quite get the case against Snow but hey I'm always down to kill the quiet. Apogee1.

In that case FoS Aventine.

Spoiler: Xihirli - Day 2

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The Emmy wagon is all well and good, but I'll follow up my FoS on Aventine for the Snowblaze pushing with no clear reasons.

EDIT: Follow it up with a vote. Aventine.

Hey, if you want to keep killing the quiet that has so far been a winning strategy.

Yeah, I'm okay stabbing Supagoof. One more knife in the knife holster that is his spine.
If you're quiet, you die!

Supagoof is still quiet and we shall stab him until he squeals.

Pray you never have to find out.

Spoiler: Xihirli - Day 3

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Isn't worst case for town... 3 wolves?

Voting for Aventine, praise the dice gods.

Random?
At this stage in the game?

Book Wombat.

I don't think I've ever known how to properly read Xihirli (I should try to figure that out one of these days)

I change every time. Heck, last time I was just a good townie.

That's not confirmation. Sorry, that just isn't. We have no information on how common that power is, particularly with the wolves. "It would be weird if" we have no role information.
This doesn't clear Book, it's nothing information.

Actually, Xihirli, how's it going with your vote on a person who can possibly be verified by a night ability? Your vote on Apogee did only come once he was going to be lynched.

I haven't moved it yet, and I've already gone over my reasons why verifying the ability does absolutely nothing to change my views on the alignment of a person. As far as we know, every wolf can do that.

But hey, silly me, using someone's behavior and not their power (which I must repeat we have NO information on how that affects alignment) to decide who we murder.

Assumptions something something u and mptions.

Spoiler: Xihirli - Day 4

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I actually am more inclined toward Xi

That hurts my feelings.

OMGUS on gac3 but I'm sure I'll move it.

Yes an interesting silence from Aventine.

Go ahead and tell me that Xi has done more to hunt for Wolves than me.

---

As for the reasons you think I'm a Wolf? I'll lay them out as I see it.

Vote against bladescape
Yes I changed my vote to someone who, 24 hours into the final day, said nothing of value. I'm not apologizing for that. We all spent Day 4 doing nothing and you wait until halfway through Day 5 to vote the Medium.

I'm also not sorry for believing that either of you could have been the Wolf. I don't know how to explain that Townies shouldn't assume their first accusation is right (how we messed up with Ave yesterday).

Aventine's case against me
I defended Murska because I believed he was town. You (bladescape) agreed with that defense.

I voted to see if Aventine and BatCatHat would change their votes to save BCH. They didn't (because Aventine was town). If I was a Wolf trying to save BCH, I would have joined a wagon that had already started rather than start a new one. Between Wolf!Cao, BCH, and Book Wombat (who had already voted Aventine) we could tie the wagons and have a real shot of lynching Ave if we could convince one other person. I would definitely try to save BCH there - saving BCH there also would mean that gac reaches out to BCH (and win the game) gives us a connection to the Medium.

I end the Day voting BCH to make sure no late shenanigans happen. It shouldn't give me town points but it doesn't say I'm a Wolf either.

---

Wish my posts hadn't all bunched up like they did but neither of you guys has said anything else.

@blade, I hope you see these arguments and change your vote.

@gac, if you think Xi is the Wolf or trust a coin toss to decide the game then vote against Xi. Curious to know who your Wolf read was, the end of day vote counts show that you've done better than us three at lynching Wolves.

[gac3]

Eh fine. I'll play. How is Xi not the wolf?

Lynching Apogee, no points for jumping on once it was essentially set.

They are the only person left who didn't vote Bat.

They have contributed nothing.

Did an OMGSUS vote so late into the game that it helped no one.

Spent all of the last day arguing against Book but in the dumbest way. If they had said "Don't believe the neutral, they could be lying" then I would understand. If they had said "we have no proof but a neutral's word that that is their power." Instead it seemed they fully believed that Book had the power because they stuck to the dumb argument of "Two wolves might have had the same power in this low PR game where we've already had two different wolves with two different powers! At least one of which was mimicking a wolf!" The argument made no sense.

Meanwhile cape and blade have made active attempts to help town, have been contributors to the deaths of two wolves and even if not always correct, definitely spent their time trying to contribute.

If Xi isn't a wolf then either they are very checked out or a worse player than I thought.

[bladescape]

I'll play counterpoint Gac, solving is fakeable. The contribution to a game isn't the be all and end all.

More-over:
Why does a scum vote Book Wombat there?
Their partner is under pressure.

Assuming this is the same scum that voted on Apogee when he was nearly over, we already know they're not adverse to jumping on partner wagons at the end of them, so why not just jump on BCH? Or defend them?

Scum tend to interact with partner wagons in some manner because they're super-conscious about how it reflects on them.

I can see a scum that avoids bussing in general, but if we assume Xi scum then we already know they bussed D1 so that claim holds no water for them.

[gac3]

I'll play counterpoint Gac, solving is fakeable. The contribution to a game isn't the be all and end all.

More-over:
Why does a scum vote Book Wombat there?
Their partner is under pressure.

Assuming this is the same scum that voted on Apogee when he was nearly over, we already know they're not adverse to jumping on partner wagons at the end of them, so why not just jump on BCH? Or defend them?

Scum tend to interact with partner wagons in some manner because they're super-conscious about how it reflects on them.

I can see a scum that avoids bussing in general, but if we assume Xi scum then we already know they bussed D1 so that claim holds no water for them.

Well everybody had already decided to say Aventine and Bat were the wolves. So there is no reason to add their name to that list. It let's them sacrifice one to sell out another. That said since the other options were you and Cape who would have not only actively bussed but if I remember right were literally the ones pushing that. So voting book to try to undermine an additional person to having already undermined Aventine is plenty reasonable compared to bussing for no reason other than to bus.

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Like it's not inherently Wolfy but since the other wolf candidates were the busers, it makes as much sense as the two of you having actively worked to kill two wolves already. Also this uncertainty was why I felt better leaving it to a coin toss. So if town loses, I blame cape for convincing me to participate instead of coming awesome suicide to randomly decide the fate of the town.

[bladescape]

Well everybody had already decided to say Aventine and Bat were the wolves. So there is no reason to add their name to that list. It let's them sacrifice one to sell out another. That said since the other options were you and Cape who would have not only actively bussed but if I remember right were literally the ones pushing that. So voting book to try to undermine an additional person to having already undermined Aventine is plenty reasonable compared to bussing for no reason other than to bus.

Okay. So they voted to undermine someone and then... killed them that night?

[gac3]

Okay. So they voted to undermine someone and then... killed them that night?

Xi wasn't even that active and the whole "hey btw guys, BW can prove who they are during the night" might have convinced them that book was most dangerous and that their plans failed.

Also again, contrasting to the option to Cape who was actively in favor of giving town a chance to prove themselves before attacking their credibility. Sure they would have also killed them in the night but they spent their time actually wolf hunting instead.

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler: Vote Count

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CaoimhinTheCape: Xihirli, bladescape
Xihirli: CaoimhinTheCape, gac3

End Of Day 5

As this last soul was exorcised, the investigators celebrated: they'd managed to gather enough evidence to separate the dead into a couple different groups (where either one whole group was responsible for the explosion, or the other was), and now all members of the first group were forced to move on to whatever awaited them in the afterlife. They would go on to tell their story of the case to anyone who would listen, and the names of the dead would be smeared but for a brave few folks who had just been trying to do their jobs and gotten caught up in a disaster.

The medium looked on, aware that the true culprits behind this horrible explosion would be viewed as heroes, and the true victims viewed as instigators, but it was their voice against the many others, and who are you going to believe? The person claiming they can talk to ghosts, or the people who livestreamed functional exorcisms? The ghostbusters, obviously.

CaoimhinTheCape has died. They were a Ghost.

The game is over, Polterguists win. Congratulations to Apogee1, Batcathat, bladescape, and Xihirli.

[bladescape]

Sorry Cao. You were very town. I just wasn't on your team.

[gac3]

Crap. I genuinely did not believe there would be four wolves. If that's the case, I'm kinda surprised we played out this day?

[bladescape]

Crap. I genuinely did not believe there would be four wolves. If that's the case, I'm kinda surprised we played out this day?

So am I. I said as much to AV in wolf chat

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Side note:
Aventine, you were spot on with the "Too focused on making sure they're culpable" and also the "Thinking about being wolf 3 times in a row" spots.

Not as much on my "Please make cases", but that was intentionally a distraction I tried keeping you on because I didn't need to fake the emotions of defending it lmao.

You actually had me pretty nailed with your first case on me.

[gac3]

So am I. I said as much to AV in wolf chat

Two notes: I honestly didn't notice blade had shifted his vote.

Also no announcement of my victory? Dang.

[AvatarVecna]

Crap. I genuinely did not believe there would be four wolves. If that's the case, I'm kinda surprised we played out this day?

I wasn't gonna end the game in the middle of the day. And coming into N5, I honestly thought "yknow, given everything, maybe tomorrow it's 2v2 votes on Cao/blade, blade loses the coinflip, and now Xihirli has to decide whether to kill Cao and win or kill gac for the memes", which is the kinda thing I'd do too lol. If it'd been like...Apogee/blade there at the end, N5/D5 probably wouldn't have happened, the game would've been called early.

Two notes: I honestly didn't notice blade had shifted his vote.

Also no announcement of my victory? Dang.

You took all the fun of announcing your own victory. You got credit in the main thread, don't worry.

EDIT: As far as four wolves go, it's a little rough. 8v1v4 is a viable game for town if they can work with the Medium, and the Medium's selective immunity was immunity to town's scry and immunity to wolf's coordination. Admittedly, both of those ended up having workarounds I hadn't considered, but neither particularly mattered because town ended up working with the Medium anyway and neither of those players even tried to target them.

One of the downsides of smaller games is the balance tends to be much tighter and it's easy to throw things off with a missing player. Emmy dropping, and me not having a good replacement because the dead players are a wolf and a seer, wasn't an ideal situation, and it put a lot of pressure on town that they didn't even realize was there. That the effectively-inactive player was also a major focus on one of the early days didn't help either. It sucks, but that's how it goes sometimes.

[gac3]

Four is reasonable. I just had to work on the assumption that it had to be less than that for us to have a chance. Overall though, maybe it was the smallish numbers or the ratio or just dumb luck but I feel like town hit surprisingly well considering that half the more vocal players were wolves.

Did blade or Xi have powers?

[AvatarVecna]

Four is reasonable. I just had to work on the assumption that it had to be less than that for us to have a chance. Overall though, maybe it was the smallish numbers or the ratio or just dumb luck but I feel like town hit surprisingly well considering that half the more vocal players were wolves.

Did blade or Xi have powers?

Town did well early on. They hit a wolf PR D1, and Aventine was basically locked onto blade from minute one. Alas.

Xihirli and bladescape were vanilla wolves.

[gac3]

Honestly, I can't remember being neutral before this so I was excited. I kinda didn't want to help town. At first just because I needed to live long enough to be confident in my victory. Then it felt like only a few were making headway and I was like "Welp. I'll tell them what I think and go from there." Nobody even asked me to elaborate on why I had full confidence Aventine was town. They just killed him. Shame. I felt really clued in to people's alignments this time (at least when I tried. I didn't put any effort into Blade after day one) but maybe it just felt more reasonable because I didn't really have to worry about a lynch or night kill once people started believing me.