another physics inspiration (9th lvl spell)...

[Stycotl]

…this one inspired by our discussion of transverse and compression waves (obviously).

needed a good force spell of ninth level. however, now that I am thinking about it, i am contemplating whether it should be force or sonic. i am still shaky on what exactly the force descriptor represents in game terms. sometimes it seems to be an actual, pressure effect, and sometimes just unexplained magical energy.

any thoughts?

it was created by an npc of mine who was tired of having high level foes of his easily succeed on their saves too often. i figured that this might whittle their saves down a little.

also, i was thinking of having this thing do something special to objects, like tear the ground up, smithereen-ify buildings, etc. unfortunately, i think i have already filled its destruction quota. if anyone has a good idea though, that doesn't make it too powerful (for a 9th level spell, hahahaha), let me know.

Compression Wave
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 9
Components: V, S
Casting Time: Standard Action
Range: 10 feet/level
Area: 10-foot/level line beginning at caster’s fingertips
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Special
Spell Resistance: Yes

The caster causes a compression wave to catastrophically pulse away from him in a 5-foot wide line. The wave consists of two separate effects that happen in sequence, though so quickly that they seem to be the same force.

The first effect is that of the instantaneous stretching and contorting of all matter present within the line, like the withdrawing of the tides before the impact of the tsunami. Any object or creature that is subject to this line must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 5d6 sonic damage and 1d4 Constitution damage. Success halves the damage and halves the Constitution damage.

The second effect is the instantaneous crushing effect along the line of the thundering compression wave. Objects and creatures within the line must succeed at a second Fortitude saving throw (subject to their modified Constitution score) or be permanently deafened, and suffer 1d6 sonic damage/level (20d6 maximum), and 2d4 Constitution damage. Success negates the deafness and halves the damage and halves the Constitution damage.

Objects are suffer somewhat different effects, though damage is still the same. An object affected by this spell loses 1d4 points of hardness with the first effect, and 2d4 points of hardness with the second effect. Attended objects can use the saving throw of the attending creature as normal. A successful save halves this damage to the object's hardness. An object that suffers damage to its hardness rating can be mended through normal means (mundane and magical). Objects brought to zero hit points and zero hardness are completely obliterated by this spell and cannot be repaired by anything short of a wish.

Objects and creatures with resistance to sonic damage are not deafened on a failed save, and suffer only half Constitution damage or hardness damage. Creatures with sonic resistance suffer no Constitution or hardness damage on a successful save.

[GoC]

Any object or creature that is subject to this line must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw or suffer 1d6 damage/level (5d6 maximum)

So... it always does 5d6 damage unless you're a 4th level caster who is somehow casting a ninth level spell?
Why not just make it 5d6 or 1d6 per four levels or something?

[Stycotl]

5d6 it is. good point.

[Icewalker]

Ooooh...fun.

I like it. Yay physics. Also, I can just imagine this being used, and it's just a line in which everything is blasted to shreds...pretty awesome.

I'd say force effect. Which is too bad, because it would be awesome for (but wouldn't really fit) my sonic based BBEG.

[Stycotl]

i think i agree with force effect over all. i might go try to dream up a new kind of descriptor to fit the effects of the more magical, less forceful 'force' effects that are in the game. maybe.

[Chronos]

i am still shaky on what exactly the force descriptor represents in game terms. sometimes it seems to be an actual, pressure effect, and sometimes just unexplained magical energy.

Force effects in D&D are always unexplained magical energy, since they have full effect on incorporeal creatures, and extend fully onto the ethereal plane.

Versus objects, this spell is already not working to its full potential, since they don't have a Constitution to decrease. So it might be reasonable to instead say that it decreases or bypasses object hardness.

[Gælen_Durrandl]

Force effects in D&D are always unexplained magical energy, since they have full effect on incorporeal creatures, and extend fully onto the ethereal plane.

Versus objects, this spell is already not working to its full potential, since they don't have a Constitution to decrease. So it might be reasonable to instead say that it decreases or bypasses object hardness.

You might actually have it decrease the hardness of the object by the Con damage. If both its hardness and hp are thus lowered to or below zero, the object is irreparably destroyed.

Also, think about having the spell apply to a person's non-magical possessions, as well, allowing them a Will save to negate the spell entirely. With respect to the items, anyway

[jagadaishio]

Actually, this could (and should) be a sonic attack. A sound wave is a compression wave, not a transverse wave. So this is the basic effect of an extremely large magnitude, long wavelength sonic attack targeted along a line.

[Indon]

i think i agree with force effect over all. i might go try to dream up a new kind of descriptor to fit the effects of the more magical, less forceful 'force' effects that are in the game. maybe.

But if it were a sound effect, you could use energy substitution on it!

Come on: A compression wave composed of acid. Or cold, or electricity!

[Stycotl]

this is the second or thrid thread this week that i have completely forgotten about...

based off of the info chronos provided, this is going to be a sonic effect.

EDIT: good idea about destroying hardness.

thanks for the input.

ok, made it a sonic effect, added the info about hardness and objects.

new question: should there be a lesser constitution/hardness damage effect for creatures/objects with sonic resistance? maybe say that if said target has any sonic resistance whatsoever, then it is takes half con/hardness damage on a failed save, and none on a successful save, like evasion. whaddya think?

[Southern Cross]

Yes,if it's a sonic spell,sonic resistance should reduce it's effectiveness.

[Myou]

This really should be a cone, not a line. You don't get 1-dimensional waves in a 3-d area - they naturally spread out in a cone.

Otherwise, cool spell!

[Manga Shoggoth]

You might like to add some sort of effect on hearing for people who have no ear protection - temporary deafness or partial deafness. Pressure changes do that to ears...

[Stycotl]

You might like to add some sort of effect on hearing for people who have no ear protection - temporary deafness or partial deafness. Pressure changes do that to ears...

i had originally figured that this would be built into the con damage, but it does seem appropriate to specify deafness.

This really should be a cone, not a line. You don't get 1-dimensional waves in a 3-d area - they naturally spread out in a cone.

Otherwise, cool spell!

technically, it wouldn't even be a cone unless it was being channeled by something. it would be a burst. buuuuut, magic is cool, and a line works much better for what i had in mind. i suppose that since it is a 9th level spell, it could have some shaping properties built into it. i could say that the wizard gets to choose between a burst, a cone, or a line. that doesn't seem too overpowered, but gives it some amazing flexibility.

Yes,if it's a sonic spell,sonic resistance should reduce it's effectiveness.

yeah, true. fixed.

[onthetown]

If it's a sonic effect spell, you could also make it a Bard 6.

[Myou]

technically, it wouldn't even be a cone unless it was being channeled by something. it would be a burst. buuuuut, magic is cool, and a line works much better for what i had in mind. i suppose that since it is a 9th level spell, it could have some shaping properties built into it. i could say that the wizard gets to choose between a burst, a cone, or a line. that doesn't seem too overpowered, but gives it some amazing flexibility.

Well yes, but assuming it was initially directed my point was that it would spread out as it went. It just doesn't make sense as a line.

[Stycotl]

If it's a sonic effect spell, you could also make it a Bard 6.

i'm not sure how comfortable i am dropping a 9th level spell to 6th level for a bard. granted, it's not as powerful as many 9th level spells, but still...

Well yes, but assuming it was initially directed my point was that it would spread out as it went. It just doesn't make sense as a line.

actually, a single wave travels in a line, until bent around corners or reflected off of objects. now, i don't care too much to analyze the implications of trying to evoke a single sonic wave without it creating echoes, but for this case, "magic is cool" as stated above means that it works perfectly fine for me. if you don't like it as a line, do whatever you want with it.

[Pie Guy]

i'm not sure how comfortable i am dropping a 9th level spell to 6th level for a bard. granted, it's not as powerful as many 9th level spells, but still...

It's not like bards are breaking the game. Throw the bard a bone.

[Stycotl]

It's not like bards are breaking the game. Throw the bard a bone.

bards can break the game, but generally not through evocation spells.

still, i don't see this as a good idea. just because something has a sonic element to it does not mean that it fits with the bard's portfolio, or its spell level limitations.

i'm still open to the idea if any of you are persuasive enough, but at the moment, i don't think that it is justified. now what you do in your own games with it is none of my business (though if it works out disastrously well, or just disastrously, i'd love to be informed)...

[onthetown]

Sorry about the slow reply...

6th level spells for Bards are like 9th and 8th level spells for Wizards/Sorcerers. They're as high as they can go, so it's balanced. Take Greater Shout - 6th Bard, 8th Wiz/Sor.

[Stycotl]

two issues: i still don't really see this as a bard spell. it doesn't fit the theme. sure, it does sonic damage, but that doesn't in and of itself make a bard spell.

further, there are 5 spells in core (i'm not gonna bother to add up spell compendium spells) that the bard gets earlier than other classes; 2 seventh level spells, and 3 eighth level spells, that the bard gets at 6th level. there are no 9th level spells available to the bard as a 6th level spell in core. there is a huuuuuge power difference between 6th and 9th level spells, and i don't yet see the justification for stretching it that far.

again though, you are free to do whatever you want in your own games with it. all of my homebrew is available with just the hope that people will tell me how it works/doesn't work, and what kind of experience they had with it.