MitD XIV: High In Protean

[Jasdoif]

The concept of Primus goes back to 1st edition, so that is not a big problem. With varying stats and abilities throughout the editions, because Primus is more or less the god of modrons and can do almost anything, and modrons follow Primus' every command.

Oh, so it's probably not a coincidence that it sounds like a reference to Optimus Prime. And come to think of it, MitD did want Transformers...

[Crusher]

The concept of Primus goes back to 1st edition, so that is not a big problem. With varying stats and abilities throughout the editions, because Primus is more or less the god of modrons and can do almost anything, and modrons follow Primus' every command. It's surprising how good these abilities, as written in the manual, fit the MitD, but still, its almost certainly not the god-commander of all modrons.

Oh, sure. Primus as a concept has been around long enough, the issue is just the specifics of the versions that are available for timing. The old ANB was plenty old, but wasn't really a great candidate. The newer, posted-but-apparently-never-published ANB is a much better candidate, but is only barely/sorta old enough.

[Ruck]

Remember that Rich was a splatbook author, so it is entirely possible (although staggeringly improbable) that the author of this book showed it to Rich before it was published, and Rich thought it would be pretty cool to use a yet-unpublished monster in his comic.

That being said, however, I think you're right: I read the Terror of Athas and the ANB was not published there. The author must have decided against including it, because the book just says to used the one from the MM2. Maybe the MitD was a 2.0 edition ANB who never got converted over? That would explain why the Big Game Hunters were surprised to see him, because all the other monsters who weren't converted are in Durokan's dungeon.

(I don't actually think that, I'm just being Devils Advocate. I do not think the MitD is an ANB)

Paragraph 1 I was aware of; it just seems unlikely that Rich would do that and still consider it "possible to guess," especially since it turned out now it may not have been officially published at all.

Re: Paragraph 2, I wasn't aware it was never published until someone mentioned it last week, and if that's the case, that opens a huge can of worms. Does a monster exist in a "possible to guess" form if it's never been published?

You aren't the one who decides if a candidate is good or whether the Protean's language access is its most damning flaw, except insofar as you are a member of the community. As has been pointed out repeatedly, the community decides how well a candidate fits the criteria as well as what the criteria are. Ignoring those collective decisions because "The community doesn't even understand what they're voting for." misses the very point of the thread.

Not only that, 3Power is wildly misrepresenting the Protean here-- the kind of wild misrepresentation fundamental to all his arguments in this thread. What evidence is there the Protean has "access to every language in existence"? The only information I can find on language is in the OP: "Normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand."

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Paragraph 1 I was aware of; it just seems unlikely that Rich would do that and still consider it "possible to guess," especially since it turned out now it may not have been officially published at all.

Re: Paragraph 2, I wasn't aware it was never published until someone mentioned it last week, and if that's the case, that opens a huge can of worms. Does a monster exist in a "possible to guess" form if it's never been published?

When it was proposed, it was published - in a D&D forum, by an actual employee that wrote monster manuals for a living. It was less than ideal (and even more so because the post was a few months after Rich had decided on MitD), but the argument that if this guy had posted it publicly as a beta, then he might have sent it around to other manual-writers such as Rich earlier as an alpha made some sense.

Of course, since then the D&D forums have been deleted, and the only record is in this thread, which significantly weakens the argument, I have to say.

Not only that, 3Power is wildly misrepresenting the Protean here-- the kind of wild misrepresentation fundamental to all his arguments in this thread. What evidence is there the Protean has "access to every language in existence"? The only information I can find on language is in the OP: "Normally speak only ever-evolving language impossible for any non-protean to understand."

From their fluff:

Tainted with chaos at the time of their race’s creation, proteans are denied the stability that most races enjoy. This has imbued them with undying hatred of all non- shapechanging beings (they tolerate other shapechangers but look down upon them for remaining in the same shape for hours or even days at a time). Hagunemnons travel endlessly, seeking new creatures to duplicate and new extraordinary abilities to assume. Their xenophobia generally results in their attempting to slay other beings after copying them.
Hagunemnons have an ever-evolving language that changes so quickly that only another hagunemnon can understand it. They can speak and understand the language of any other creature.

Given their xenophobia, it would be surprising to find one talking, and in common no less, despite their knowledge of languages, and because they have their own language which is, for all other creatures, not a language at all.

Grey Wolf

[Sir_Norbert]

Maybe all the posters in this thread are Proteans and that's why we find it so difficult to understand each other!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Maybe all the posters in this thread are Proteans and that's why we find it so difficult to understand each other!

Hagunemnons have an ever-evolving language that changes so quickly that only another hagunemnon can understand it.

Again: not fun at parties.

GW

[Squire Doodad]

Maybe all the posters in this thread are Proteans and that's why we find it so difficult to understand each other!

Hm, go on about the application of pineapple stew to this conundrum.

[Peelee]

I wish to apologize to everyone for their wasted time and efforts, as I have absolutely and definitively solved the mystery of the MitD's identity. It is, perhaps unsurprisingly, a creature that we have not yet guessed (to the best of my knowledge), which is why it wasn't already obviously apparent, as this is the single most perfect creature that could possibly be presented (which only makes sense, as it is absolutely what the MitD is, of course). Please hold your applause until the end.

The Monster in the Darkness is, quite clearly, Wile E. Coyote.

• Wile E. Coyote has yellow eyes.
• Wile E. Coyote is a coyote, which is a generally known animal, and would fit "one of these".
• Wile E. Coyote lives in the American Southwest, and it would be quite surprising to find him in a rainforest.
• Wile E. Coyote is silent, so it would be surprising to find him speaking.
• Wile E. Coyote is roughly the same size as the Roadrunner, a notably small bird, and is thus much smaller than a regular coyote would be.
• Wile E. Coyote is famously portrayed as always hungry.
• Wile E. Coyote is famously portrayed as behaving quite immaturely.
• Wile E. Coyote is almost universally never harmed by external forces, only by himself or his own machinations, which explains why Miko and Belkar cannot hurt him, but he can give himself a papercut.
• Wile E. Coyote did try to hit as lightly as possible, but his plan was foiled by the ACME rocket-powered gloves he was wearing, launching Miko and Windstrider through the tower wall with great force.
• Wile E. Coyote caused the earthquake because he was wearing ACME rocket-powered boots, which the demon roach saw him order.
• Wile E. Coyote's earnest desire for the well-being of other creatures would tug on the Roadrunner's heartstrings; the Roadrunner would have transported O-Chul and V from Xykon's grasp to the Elven Island, moving so fast that it appeared to be a teleport.
• Wile E. Coyote cannot raise the dead.
• Wile E. Coyote famously has issues correctly working the contraptions he orders.
• Wile E. Coyote would be familiar with the Astral Plane, in the sense of it being a void connecting ideas, as he is an idea from Chuck Jones that traveled to the idea of the Order of the Stick. This would also explain why he is unfamiliar with all other planes.
• Wile E. Coyote is not immune to mind-affecting effects, and can be hypnotized.
• Wile E. Coyote is in a very different animated style than the Order of the Stick, which would likely cause many in the comic to be sickened by him, while others are in awe or admiration. And certainly a wizard would have never seen anything like him.
• Wile E. Coyote's tracks would similarly be wholly unrecognizable to Belkar.

And, finally, Wile E. Coyote would clearly be able to display flashes of brilliance despite his otherwise childish demeanor, as evidenced here:

Spoiler

Show

As you can no doubt now plainly see, the MitD can only be Wile E. Coyote, as he is the most perfect fit that has ever been imagined. Thank you.

[balloons fall]

[Jasdoif]

Hm, go on about the application of pineapple stew to this conundrum.

Well, the funny thing about pineapple is the bromelain. It's an enzyme that, among other things, can tenderize meat by breaking down the collagen in it. This is also why those packages of instant gelatin say not to add fresh pineapple; gelatin is basically just collagen, bromelain breaks it down so the gelatin is unable to set...which, of course, is what leads to discussions in this thread failing to gel. Bromelain is heat sensitive, so cooking the pineapple first will render it inert; but (depending on the specific recipe) pineapple stew calls for adding fresh pineapple and, like stews is general, is cooked at relatively low temperatures; so it's usually too late by the time all the bromelain is neutralized.

[Squire Doodad]

Well, the funny thing about pineapple is the bromelain. It's an enzyme that, among other things, can tenderize meat by breaking down the collagen in it. This is also why those packages of instant gelatin say not to add fresh pineapple; gelatin is basically just collagen, bromelain breaks it down so the gelatin is unable to set...which, of course, is what leads to discussions in this thread failing to gel. Bromelain is heat sensitive, so cooking the pineapple first will render it inert; but (depending on the specific recipe) pineapple stew calls for adding fresh pineapple and, like stews is general, is cooked at relatively low temperatures; so it's usually too late by the time all the bromelain is neutralized.

Marvelous!

That was actually very interesting, thank you. How do you know all of this?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The Monster in the Darkness is, quite clearly, Wile E. Coyote.

Duly added to Section 3.c.
Definitely no fun at parties
Grey Wolf

[Jasdoif]

That was actually very interesting, thank you. How do you know all of this?

Basically, I remember a lot of random stuff and I like food.

[Peelee]

Duly added to Section 3.c.

Grey Wolf

I would like to lobby to have the list added to his entry, as Snorlax has. After all, balloons even fell for him. Balloons!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I would like to lobby to have the list added to his entry, as Snorlax has. After all, balloons even fell for him. Balloons!

Snorlax's list was grandfathered in when he was kicked moved out of the FBS list, though.

GW

[Peelee]

Snorlax's list was grandfathered in when he was kicked moved out of the FBS list, though.

GW

Solution: Move Wile E. Coyote into the FBS list, then back out.
I am fun at parties!

ETA: I will accept your decision not to, if you go that route. But it'll be begrudgingly. Balloons, I tell ya!

[Schroeswald]

Snorlax's list was grandfathered in when he was kicked moved out of the FBS list, though.

Yeah, but I have a balloon now, so I think his list should be included.

EDIT: When I posted my response I hadn't seen Peelee's post so the response was to this, edited the quote in for clarity.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Solution: Move Wile E. Coyote into the FBS list, then back out.
I am fun at parties!

ETA: I will accept your decision not to, if you go that route. But it'll be begrudgingly. Balloons, I tell ya!

Compromise: linked the entry to your post, retaining the value while saving me a couple thousand characters.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Yeah, but I have a balloon now, so I think his list should be included.

I appreciate the solidarity.

Compromise: linked the entry to your post, retaining the value while saving me a couple thousand characters.

Grey Wolf

Huzzah!

[Squire Doodad]

Basically, I remember a lot of random stuff and I like food.

In either case, the perspective is appreciated.

[Kastor]

[*]Wile E. Coyote cannot raise the dead.

Citation needed?

[Crusher]

Basically, I remember a lot of random stuff and I like food.

Plus, you're a banana and thus a fellow tropical fruit. You'd expect people to know things about their cousins.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Plus, you're a banana and thus a fellow tropical fruit. You'd expect people to know things about their cousins.

One is a Banana, the other an Anana. They're practically identical.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Citation needed?

Proving a negative being a bit beyond my pay grade, I will happily retract this if anyone can find the MitD Wile E. Coyote raising the dead.

[Vendanna]

I recall willy e coyote to have been suggested years ago on the thread (in the joke suggestion ideas or something like that). Oo

but I don't think he has ever used psionic powers on the cartoons, and the "invulnerability" thing would be a bit weird, since he "do look wounded" even if it's just for laughs and "regens" fast. in most episodes. I even recall having heard him talk (in common nonetheless) once (and I'm not referring to the space jam movie where he also appears)

so far in the game I'm not switching my previous guessings, thou. since they were made on 2016. and I don't think rich burlew is going to do the "there is three doors, you pick one, then before revealing that door I'll reveal one that "isn't" and tell you, you can switch door before opening this one." case.

take care everyone. :)

[Peelee]

I recall willy e coyote to have been suggested years ago on the thread (in the joke suggestion ideas or something like that). Oo

but I don't think he has ever used psionic powers on the cartoons

We don't know the MitD used psionic powers, and most of the likely monsters the community decided on are not psionic, so I do not consider this a fault.

the "invulnerability" thing would be a bit weird, since he "do look wounded" even if it's just for laughs and "regens" fast.)

As stated, he can get injured, but only by his own actions. Which explains why Miko and Belkar couldn't do anything, but why he was still able to get a papercut.

I even recall having heard him talk (in common nonetheless) once (and I'm not referring to the space jam movie where he also appears)

Source?

This was presented entirely in jest, but I am amused at how good a fit it is.

[Jasdoif]

I even recall having heard him talk (in common nonetheless) once (and I'm not referring to the space jam movie where he also appears)

Source?

Operation: Rabbit.

[Vendanna]

We don't know the MitD used psionic powers, and most of the likely monsters the community decided on are not psionic, so I do not consider this a fault.

As stated, he can get injured, but only by his own actions. Which explains why Miko and Belkar couldn't do anything, but why he was still able to get a papercut.

Source?

This was presented entirely in jest, but I am amused at how good a fit it is.

While he is generally silent in the Coyote-Road Runner shorts, he speaks with a refined accent in these solo outings (except for Hare-Breadth Hurry), beginning with 1952's Operation: Rabbit, introducing himself as "Wile E. Coyote—Genius", voiced with an upper-class accent by Mel Blanc.[13] The Road Runner vocalizes only with a signature sound, "Beep, Beep", recorded by Paul Julian (although some viewers claim it sounds more like "meep meep"), and an accompanying "popping-cork" tongue noise.[14]

From the wikipedia since it would have been hard for me to pin point it otherwise (after all I saw those cartoons as a kid)

Edit: He also tried to protect himself from a boulder with a parasol in one of the episodes. ;)

[Squire Doodad]

While he is generally silent in the Coyote-Road Runner shorts, he speaks with a refined accent in these solo outings (except for Hare-Breadth Hurry), beginning with 1952's Operation: Rabbit, introducing himself as "Wile E. Coyote—Genius", voiced with an upper-class accent by Mel Blanc.[13] The Road Runner vocalizes only with a signature sound, "Beep, Beep", recorded by Paul Julian (although some viewers claim it sounds more like "meep meep"), and an accompanying "popping-cork" tongue noise.[14]

From the wikipedia since it would have been hard for me to pin point it otherwise (after all I saw those cartoons as a kid)

He doesn't normally speak human words though, so you couldn't blame the hunters for missing that.

[littlebum2002]

While he is generally silent in the Coyote-Road Runner shorts, he speaks with a refined accent in these solo outings (except for Hare-Breadth Hurry), beginning with 1952's Operation: Rabbit, introducing himself as "Wile E. Coyote—Genius", voiced with an upper-class accent by Mel Blanc.[13] The Road Runner vocalizes only with a signature sound, "Beep, Beep", recorded by Paul Julian (although some viewers claim it sounds more like "meep meep"), and an accompanying "popping-cork" tongue noise.[14]

From the wikipedia since it would have been hard for me to pin point it otherwise (after all I saw those cartoons as a kid)

Edit: He also tried to protect himself from a boulder with a parasol in one of the episodes. ;)

I seem to remember an episode where it was shown that their entire battle was just their job. They checked out for the day and continued their chase the next morning. I'm pretty sure he talked in that one.

[Peelee]

Operation: Rabbit.

While he is generally silent in the Coyote-Road Runner shorts, he speaks with a refined accent in these solo outings (except for Hare-Breadth Hurry), beginning with 1952's Operation: Rabbit, introducing himself as "Wile E. Coyote—Genius", voiced with an upper-class accent by Mel Blanc.

SBGHs never saw those, so they were still able to be surprised.