SPOILER: If I was Bozzok/the DM

[HamsterOfTheGod]

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[See updated story below]

After Toby's death, I would have Bozzok shout down to Haley, "Surrender Haley. You can't survive this but maybe your frinds can." Haley shouts back "Fat chance."

Then I order the fighter with the tower shield -- at least on of Bozzok's crew has multiclassed to fighter and you always carry a tower shield to these situations -- to double move down the stairs, bullrushing anyone in the way. Then have 5 more rogues follow him down the stairs or tumble off the stairs. One of these 5 is Crystal. The last one left at the top of the stairs is the rogue with the caster level or enough UMD to cast/read a scroll/use a wand of dispel magic with a ready action to counter the Sylph.

On the next round, once down the stairs, the tower shield tries to bull rush Haley against a wall if he can. The other rogues screen by fighting defensively or spring attacking. All this is to allow Crystal to get close to Haley.

The remaining rogues rush or tumble down the stairs. At least half of these have bows or crossbows. Once there inside, Bozzok yells again, "Surrender Haley or the Sylph buys a one way ticket to the afterlife." If Haley does not surrender, it should be over in 1 or 2 rounds.

When the door is open and "Suprise!" the new cleric has uncursed and buffed, raging Belkar. Belkar probably debated killing the cleric but was convinced by his greater evil self, and a few buffs, to fight the incoming rogues instead. The cleric is busy casting the sending spell.

But like all good thieves...rogues, after listening at the door and knowing who is behind the door from Blind Pete, they are not really surprised. If Haley and the Sylph are captured, Bozzok will offer Belkar the option of going free in exchange for Haley and the cleric. Belkar again will debate the matter but most likely he'll choose to fight.

unwise choice for it's all spring attacks and fighting defensively again. Belkar does not have enough levels of uncanny dodge so although he will take some rogues with him, the sneak attacks -- and Poison! -- will do him in after 2-3 rounds.

After Belkar fall, the new cleric stops and yells "I surrender!". "Too late," quips Crystal with her funky sword through the new clerics chest.

The best outcome is that Haley, Celia and Belkar are all captured and back in Bozzok's quarters. Haley asks "I thought you were going to kill me." Bozzok replies, "My dear, what kind of villian would I be if I killed you on site. Besides there are people who I want you to see. Mr. Grubfinger has been sent for. And here's an old friend. You remember Eagle Eyed Pete."

Pete enters with new eyes and says, "I'm sorry Haley. It's nothing personal." Crystal quips "It's nothing personal," as she thrusts her sword through Pete's chest.

Then it's time for the cavalry...

(Didn't say I was a good DM/writer)

[TheBST]

If I was Bozzok, I'd barricade the basement door then burn the house down. If anyone makes their way outside, launch your entire force at them at once.

Hey, if you're fighting fairly then you're not doing it right.

[Zherog]

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The last one left at the top of the stairs is the rogue with the caster level or enough UMD to cast/read a scroll/use a wand of dispel magic with a ready action to counter the Sylph.

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Spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled.

A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If Celia's lightning trick is an SLA, this plan wouldn't work.

[Yoyoyo]

Why even bother going down the stairs? She's coming up, as Toby the scout just discovered the hard way. Let Haley charge into a trap planted on the main floor. That way you've got a bunch of sneak attacks waiting to happen.

Of course setting the building on fire is a lot funnier.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

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Spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled.



If Celia's lightning trick is an SLA, this plan wouldn't work.

You are correct sir. So change of plan

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Last rogue on top of the stair targets always Celia with a ranged attack. Make him a ranged specialist.

[Linkavitch]

I like setting the building on fire. Hopefully the safe area thing in the base ment will protect them long enough for the fire to burn out.

[ShellBullet]

You are correct sir. So change of plan

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Little flaw in that plan.

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Haley would just shoot the ranged spesialist

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Little flaw in that plan.

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Haley would just shoot the ranged spesialist

Except

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Haley will have her hands full evading the six other rogues that went in first into the room which would include Crystal -- as per The Plan.

Celia would have to be able to defend herslef against the ranged specialized rogue. I hope she knows more than just Reflex saves.

Now if we assume Celia is somewhat like the this Sylph then

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Maybe Celia can go invisible, summon a large elemental and have it wreak havoc with its whirlwind while Celia lays low while casting non-invisible dispelling spells.

Could throw a severe kink in The Plan...

[Forealms]

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After Toby's death, I would have Bozzok shout down to Haley, "Surrender Haley. You can't survive this but maybe your frinds can." Haley shouts back "Fat chance."

Then I order the fighter with the tower shield -- at least on of Bozzok's crew has multiclassed to fighter and you always carry a tower shield to these situations -- to double move down the stairs, bullrushing anyone in the way. Then have 5 more rogues follow him down the stairs or tumble off the stairs. One of these 5 is Crystal. The last one left at the top of the stairs is the rogue with the caster level or enough UMD to cast/read a scroll/use a wand of dispel magic with a ready action to counter the Sylph.

On the next round, once down the stairs, the tower shield tries to bull rush Haley against a wall if he can. The other rogues screen by fighting defensively or spring attacking. All this is to allow Crystal to get close to Haley.

The remaining rogues rush or tumble down the stairs. At least half of these have bows or crossbows. Once there inside, Bozzok yells again, "Surrender Haley or the Sylph buys a one way ticket to the afterlife." If Haley does not surrender, it should be over in 1 or 2 rounds.

When the door is open and "Suprise!" the new cleric has uncursed and buffed, raging Belkar. Belkar probably debated killing the cleric but was convinced by his greater evil self, and a few buffs, to fight the incoming rogues instead. The cleric is busy casting the sending spell.

But like all good thieves...rogues, after listening at the door and knowing who is behind the door from Blind Pete, they are not really surprised. If Haley and the Sylph are captured, Bozzok will offer Belkar the option of going free in exchange for Haley and the cleric. Belkar again will debate the matter but most likely he'll choose to fight.

unwise choice for it's all spring attacks and fighting defensively again. Belkar does not have enough levels of uncanny dodge so although he will take some rogues with him, the sneak attacks -- and Poison! -- will do him in after 2-3 rounds.

After Belkar fall, the new cleric stops and yells "I surrender!". "Too late," quips Crystal with her funky sword through the new clerics chest.

The best outcome is that Haley, Celia and Belkar are all captured and back in Bozzok's quarters. Haley asks "I thought you were going to kill me." Bozzok replies, "My dear, what kind of villian would I be if I killed you on site. Besides there are people who I want you to see. Mr. Grubfinger has been sent for. And here's an old friend. You remember Eagle Eyed Pete."

Pete enters with new eyes and says, "I'm sorry Haley. It's nothing personal." Crystal quips "It's nothing personal," as she thrusts her sword through Pete's chest.

Then it's time for the cavalry...

(Didn't say I was a good DM/writer)

I'm not very good with mechanics, though most of that seems sound. but let me tell you, if this situation came up in a book, I would definitely write it this way.

[pendell]

Bozzok isn't interested in live prisoners -- this is a tailor-made situation for a frag grenade. What's the D&D 4E equivalent?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I'm not very good with mechanics, though most of that seems sound. but let me tell you, if this situation came up in a book, I would definitely write it this way.

Thanks. OK. So here's a rewrite [of the full story] making the corrections above and taking some liberties.

CHAPTER I. If I was Bozzok

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After Toby's death, Bozzok shouts down to Haley, "Surrender Haley. You can't survive this but maybe your friends can." Haley shouts back "Fat chance!"

Bozzok orders the fighter with the tower shield -- at least one of Bozzok's crew has multiclassed to fighter and you always carry a tower shield to these situations -- to double move down the stairs, bull rushing anyone in the way. Crystal and four other rogues follow the tower shield down the stairs, some of them tumbling off to the side of the stairs. The last one left at the top of the stairs is the rogue with the caster level or enough UMD to cast/read a scroll/use a wand of dispel magic with a ready action to counter the Sylph.

Celia cast Lightning Bolt taking out 1 or 2 of the rogues. Bozzok's spellcaster tries to counterspell but fails.

On the next round, once down the stairs, the tower shield tries to bull rush Haley against a wall if he can. The other rogues screen by fighting defensively or spring attacking. All this is to allow Crystal to get close to Haley.

The caster turns to Bozzok and says "I can't counter her spell-like abilities." Bozzok responds, "Oh no? Then get in there," pushing the caster inside as the remaining rogues rush or tumble down the stairs. At least half of these have bows or crossbows. He tells the last rogue going in, a ranged specialist with steely eyes, "Make sure you get your arrows in that Sylph."

Once they're all inside, Bozzok yells again, "Surrender Haley or the Sylph buys a one way ticket to the afterlife." A mad tumbling Haley yells back "What part of fat chance don't you understand?" She still gets hit though she manages to take out a couple of rogues, pinning at least one of them to the wall.

Meanwhile, Celia has gone invisible and she starts summoning an elemental. The ranged specialist can hear her but can't pinpoint her. He drinks a potion. The others with ranged weapons fire their arrows but they only hit the back wall.

Next round, the air elemental "appears" forms a whirlwind and picks up a couple of unlucky rogues including the tower shield.

Bozzok barks an order to dispel the elemental but the caster fails.

The ranged specialist has avoided the fighting and the elemental and thanks to his potion of See Invisibility he can see Celia high up in a corner. He fires two arrows with surprising fluidity straight at her. But just as the arrows are about to hit, they are deflected upward as if by an invisible hand. The ranged specialist narrows his eyes and calls out to Bozzok as he points, "Wind Wall".

On the next round, the elemental drops the rogues it is carrying from a height and tries to pick up some others. Haley, tumbling past attackers, manages to pick off another two rogues and exults "You're not gonna get us that easy." She smiles amid the havoc as a second strand of hair comes undone and hangs down on her face.

Amid all the confusion Crystal has managed to get up next to Haley and full attacks to Sunder! She cuts Haley's bow in two.

Bozzok runs up to the wall and leaps straight up like Michael Jordan...with a Boots of Jumping! "Eek!" cries Celia as he grabs her by the ankles and they both crash to the floor. He turns to see the angry fury of the elemental whirlwind looming over him. He curls his fist and punches the invisible form below him. The elemental disappears.

"Don't kill her!" Bozzok yells. Crystal, a knife at Haley's throat, pouts "Damn it, I never get to kill Haley."

With Haley and Celia tied up, the door is opened. "Suprise!" The new cleric has uncursed and buffed a raging Belkar. Belkar probably debated killing the cleric but was convinced by his greater evil self, and a few buffs, to fight the incoming rogues instead.

The cleric is busy casting the sending spell.

But like all good thieves...sorry rogues...after listening at the door and knowing who is behind the door from Blind Pete, they are not really surprised. Bozzok offers Belkar the option of going free in exchange for Haley and the cleric. Belkar debates the matter but choose to fight. Sexy Shoeless Gods of War have really limited choices when you think about it.

It's all spring attacks and fighting defensively again for the rogues while Belkar spins, jumps and stabs like Yoda...when Yoda was only 866 years old. Belkar does not have enough levels of uncanny dodge so although he takes some rogues with him, the sneak attacks -- and Poison! -- do him in after 2-3 rounds.

After Belkar falls, the new cleric stops and yells "I surrender!" "Too late," quips Crystal as she plunges her funky sword straight through the cleric's chest.

Bound, Haley, Celia and Belkar are brought back to Bozzok's headquarters. Haley asks "I thought you were going to kill me?" Bozzok replies, "My dear, what kind of villian would I be if I killed you on sight? Before any killing, we have some preliminaries. There are people who want to see you. Mr. Grubwriggler has been sent for. Oh and here's an old friend. You remember Eagle Eyed Pete."

Pete enters with new eyes and says, "I'm sorry Haley. It's nothing personal." Crystal quips "It's nothing personal Petey," as she thrusts her sword from behind and through Pete's chest.

CHAPTER II. Birds of a feather

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Two figures fly high over an island with a rather impressive giant statue. The smaller chases the larger. Just as it is about to catch up to the larger figure, the smaller one disappears only to appear in front of the larger one. Coming to halt the larger figure, a very angry and intense looking elf says coldly, "Go back to the nightmare plane you came from imp. Even in my depleted state, you are no match for me. But I don't want to waste any more resources destroying you today. "

The imp colly replies, "There's no need to fight wizard. You're obviously looking for something. And I can help you, whatever it is."

"Evil hellspawn," the wizard responds as his hands start to glow ominously, "There is nothing about me which you can comprehend. There is nothing that you can offer me. I know full well how your kind schemes and I am far too intelligent to be fooled by you."

"Of course wizard", intones the imp. "I have no intention of fooling you. How could I? It does not interest me what your aims are. Do you think I cared about Kubota's little power trip? No. That is not my job. My job is, as you know, corrupting mortals. I do know that you are looking for something. I can help with that or rather my patrons can. What is it you seek wizard? Ultimate arcane power perhaps? No, no, that's not it. Perhaps I was wrong. That's not what you seek."

"Arcane power I have and I shall attain even more on my own. But that is only a tool for the larger, greater purpose to which I am dedicated. It is that purpose that makes me invulnerable to your temptation. And it is that very purpose which lets me brook no delay. Out of my way or I shall destroy you." The glow around the wizard grows even brighter, angrier.

The little imp seems oblivious to the elf's threat. "Wait. Stop and think for a moment wizard. If you do have this greater purpose then isn't it in your interest to use me? Your kind uses my kind for that kind of thing all the time. And if you do achieve your purpose through me, then so what? Doesn't your end justify your means? Before I leave let me ask you one last question. Do you now have a clear and immediate means to attain this pressing goal of yours? If you do, I will leave because then I do have nothing to offer you. But if you do not, then are you really making the most intelligent decision by ignoring my offer?"

The elf is quiet. He looks sternly at the imp. The glow around his body dies down. He speaks with and even voice in the cool breeze that blows at this altitude. "Of my purpose, I will tell you this. I seek to contact one Ms. Haley Starshine and knowledge of the mortal state and location of certain Mr. Roy Greenhilt. I have used all my considerable art to find them but I must admit that I cannot. I cannot even divine what has happened in Azure City where I last saw them. If you can help me in this and I find your terms agreeable, then we may have a deal. What say you imp?"

"Azure City?" replies the incredulous imp. "Don't you know why your divinations don't work there? I wonder sometimes what kind of lame subpar senses you mortals use."

An obvious irritated wizard responds "All I get is a 404 error."

"Yes obviously but why?" responds the imp. "Did you not try to map the magical scope and area of interference with divination? It's epic. There is an epic level divination block around Azure City. You can't possibly succeed in breaking it."

The wizard looks even more irritated.

"Well, ahem, yes, I tell you that for free." continuous the imp. "And I tell you what's more, I can call on my master's even greater epic power to overcome your obstacle. It comes at a price...you understand."

The elf sighs. "Yes, yes I do. The only thing left to negotiate is the price then. I know all too well what you are asking of me yet I would read the contract before signing it. I assume it has the usual escape clauses and fine print?"

A smiling imp responds as he pulls a small scroll from seemingly out of nowhere, "I have a standard contract right here. I just need to make a few small changes. Shall we proceed to a more convenient location on the island to conclude our discussion?"

"Please lead the way," responds the elf.

"But of course. Pleasure doing business with you," quips the imp.

The two figure fly down and disappear among the trees.

CHAPTER III. The cavalry is coming

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Scene: Hinjo's office on Hinjo's junk. Lien stands behind Hinjo who sits behind a desk.

[Elan walks into Hinjo's cabin looking glum]

Hinjo: Thanks for coming Elan. Do you know why I've called you here?

Elan: Yes. Don't patronize me like I'm not some school kid called in to see his principal.

Hinjo: OK Elan. This isn't easy for me either.

Elan: I take it the True Ressurection on Kubota did not work?

Hinjo. No. Kubota's clan spent a large part of their resources to get the high priest of the Lizardfolk to cast the spell. But no one knows why his soul failed to return.

[Pause]

Hinjo: Do you have any idea where Vaarsuvius is?

Elan: No.

Hinjo: Please tell me again what happened to Kubota.

Elan: I already told you...more than once.

Hinjo: Yes I know. Dire Half-Dragon Bone-Eating Saltwater Were-Piranhas. Lien if you please.

[Lien brings our Kubota's armor from behind the desk]

Hinjo: Care to explain how Lien found this and only this?

Elan: I can't. I'm not the brains around here.

[Hinjo stands up suddenly]

Hinjo: Don't you patronize me! It is true Elan, we, Azure City, I, have much to thank you and your friends for. We would not have made it this far without you. And you have lost much too. I know that. But you don't seem to understand the position this latest turn of events has put me in.

Elan: Hinjo, I understand...

Hinjo: No, no you don't. I am the Lord of these people. All of them. The good and the bad. Kubota was one of those people. Even if he was trying to kill me, I still had a duty to protect him. And what's more he was a daimyo. He was perceived by many to be a pillar of the community. His clan has already started rumors that he was on my ship trying to come to our rescue. Now he is gone leaving nothing behind but this. And Vaarsuvius is gone as well. I'm not the smartest one here either Elan. But even I can see that the two events are related. And you are the only witness. I'm asking you Elan. Tell me the truth.

[Elan looks down to the floor. Then looks up straight into Hinjo's eyes]

Elan: How do you want me to answer you Hinjo? Does the truth even matter at this point? We both know what this means. We, Durkon and I, have to leave you as well. That should satisfy your people, no? Getting rid of us northern barbarians?

Hinjo: Elan, this isn't about that. I'm bound to uphold the Law of Azure City even here in the open ocean. I will defend the right of northern "barbarians" to live among us if they conduct themselves lawfully. But I can't allow a band of adventurers to treat the citizens like monsters in a dungeon.

Elan: What is your intention then? To prosecute us for the murder of Daimyo Kubota? I'm sure it would be the Trial of the Century.

Hinjo: Elan please. I'm only asking for the truth. I need to know what happened so I can act appropriately.

Elan: Sometimes you just gotta act even if you don't know how it's going to come out. Do you want to detain us here Hinjo? Durkon and I won't resist.

Hinjo: No Elan. You are free to go. I just wish things had worked out differently ... that everything had worked out differently.

Elan: I know. But what's done is done. Will you be OK here Hinjo?

Hinjo: Yes. Kubota was the most dangerous and ambitious of the daimyo. With him gone, I am secure for the moment if only because of fear. And you? Where will you and Durkon go?

Elan: I don't know. I just know wherever we go, that's where will need to be...Isn't that right Banjo?

[Elan takes out Banjo and shakes his head yes. Hinjo laughs.]

Hinjo: May the Twelve Gods go with you.

Scene: Below decks. Durkon lies on his back, eyes closed, in his armor in a magic circle. Durkon does not speak out lout. He says the words in his mind.

Durkon: Should we stay with Hinjo?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we chase after Vaarsuvius?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return to Azure City?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we leave at the nearest port of call?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Girard's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Kraagor's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return home to the dwarven lands?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we continue scrying for Haley?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to bring Roy back from the dead?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we recruit new members and form a new party?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we fight Xykon ourselves?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we...

Disembodied voice: Oh for crying out loud! Go to Greysky City! Go there now! Find the Thieve's Guild headquarters!

Scene: Thor, angry on a cloudscape, taking a headset off his head.

Thor: Man is that guy a pain.

Scene: Deck of Hinjo's junk. The Kato's are on the deck. Elan, Hinjo and Lein are leaving Hinjo's quarters. Durkon rushes up from below quarters.

Durkon: Elan! We've got to...

Elan: We've got to leave.

Durkon: No I mean you and I have to leave...

Elan: Yes I know. You and I have to leave the fleet.

Daigo: What?

Kazumi: No!

Durkon: I mean I think I know where Haley is.

[Elan suddenly smiles]

Elan: Then what are we waiting for?

[After some short preperations, the group exchanges goodbyes. Durkon casts a spell and he and Elan turn into cloudlike vapor. They zoom into the sky as the fleet and the sunset recedes behind them.]

CHAPTER III. On with the chase

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1) Durkon and Elan arrive at Bozzok's HQ

2) Smalltalk with Bozzok, eg "Where's Haley?" "Haley who?"

3) Fight ensues. Elan is surprisingly effective one on one vs Bozzok.

4) Thieves get upper hand.

5) V arrives to save the day with new raven "familiar" in tow. Haley knows its not Blackwing and is suspicious of it.

6) Haley explains that Roy's body is at Grubwriggler's.

7) Argument as to how to proceed. V flies off alone to the wizard's lair. Others follow.

8) Others arrive just in time to prevent V from eliminating yet another obstacle - a living one this time.

9) Roy is resurrected.

10) Unhappy family reunion. Arguing breaks out among all parties.

11) V breaks argument and says he knows where Xykon and RC are. And he mentions that they should act with haste if they want someone named O-Chul to be saved.

12) Windwalk back to Azure City. O-Chul is saved in the nick of time.

13) RC wants to stay and fight. Xykon argues that it's time to go. Cloister has obviously been broken. Besides if RC wants to save his precious hobgoblins from adventurers the best thing is to have the good guys chase the bad guys. Just to make sure OotS does chase, Xykon tells them he's headed to Girard's gate before teleporting out.

14) O-Chul decides to stay with resistance as OotS decides to follow.

15) The destination is too far for Wind Walk. But, mysteriously, with Raven on his shoulder, V is able to teleport the party to the city nearest to Girard's gate.

16) In some other city, the Linear Guild is gathering new recruits.

17) Sabine complains about Nale's new recruit, a halfling monk, while Nale complains about Sabine's new recruit, a handsome tiefling warlock.

18) A mysterious hooded cleric enters. The cleric insists on joining the Linear Guild because the cleric has sworn an oath to stop V. "Why should we trust you?" asks Nale. The person removes their hood to reveal an andogynous elf who says "Because I'm the spouse of the wizard Vaarsuvius and I know where the Order of the Stick is going."

CHAPTER IV. All sides considered

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Scene: Dungeon in a northern castle. An impressive, helmeted figures descends a staircase and enters a room where an old woman with a hood bends over a smoking cauldron.

Lord: Speak hag! What do you see?

Crone: M'lord, the twin's paths entwine once more. They are headed for the gate of Girard.

Lord: Have you discovered what these "gates" are?

Crone: Nay m'lord. But, an it please you m'lord, I can tell thee that Starshine has been found again. She travels with the younger.

Lord: Well then perhaps her father does not suffer in vain. Keep me apprised of all new developments.

Crone: Aye m'lord.

Scene: A deep cavern underground. A pair of robed lizardmen walk down a passage before a large forbidden entrance which is totally dark. Wisps of smoke come out of the entrance. They stop and bow silently before the entrance. A deep, rumbling, rasping, frightening voice comes from within.

Voice within: Why do you disturb my sleep?

Lizardman #1: Dread sovereign, the Oracle wishes to convey his many thanks to your majesty for the aid you gave him presently, the aid you've given in the past, and the aid you will give in the future.

Lizardman #2: Reverence, the Oracle has informed us that the humanoids are moving toward Girard's gate. All is proceeding as he has foreseen.

Voice within: That is good. Send a reply to the Oracle with my gratitude. What else did you come to tell me.

Lizardman #1: Sire, the Kubota clan wishes for a return of the casting fee since the resurrection did not work.

[The voice within laughs mightily and shakes the cavern as he does]

Voice within: Ignore them. They are no longer of any consequence. Do not disturb me again unless I need to act. Leave me now.

[The lizardmen bow once more silently. The leave quickly and quietly.]

Scene: A well appointed meeting room. At the end of a long table sits a pit-fiend. Also seated are a bone-devil, an erinyes and an ice-devil.

Bone-devil: …and so the callback for the VIP’s soul was refused as per the standard contract. Torture on the subject has proceeded to level 42.

Pit-fiend: [perusing scroll] I see. I think you misspelled the VIP’s mortal title.

Bone-devil: I think that is the way you spell ‘daimyo’, sir.

Pit-fiend: [perusing scroll] Double check it. And update the date and time in the header and get it back before my next meeting. And use the subjects own skin for the final copy. I need to make a good impression.

Bone-devil: Yes sir.

Pit-fiend: [smiling at Erinyes] Now my dear. I hope you have something good to report?

Erinyes: [smiling back] Do you doubt it? You know I always give good service.

[The two share a chuckle and then there is an awkward silence.]

Erinyes: [handing a sealed scroll to pit-fiend] Ahem…as I was saying…The recent developments have allowed us to place an agent in the only group in which we did not have representation. Here is the signed blood contract.

Pit-fiend: [takes the scroll but does not open it] Excellent work my dear! [smile fades as he turns serious] Now for you Abraxis. Do you have anything to report?

Ice-devil: [takes the scroll but does not open it] The technical department has not break any breakthroughs in solving the problem. Work continues apace while at the same time we maintain the same level of performance on maintenance duties…

Pit-fiend: I don’t care about anything else! Solving the problem should be your top priority.

Ice-devil: We are doing everything we can. I have top men working on this. Top men. I myself have taken to scribing magic again. You have to realize this is an Epic problem. I just can wave my staff and dispel it. It will be done but it will take time.

Pit-fiend: We are running out of time. You and I, are running out of time. The brass won’t like the progress report but I will try to keep them off my back and yours with what we have. Make sure to send me that report on the VIP pronto…and [smiling again] my dear, why don’t you accompany me to the board room to personally present your report.

[The Erinyes squeals with delight]

Pit-fiend: Alright, back to work!

CHAPTER V. Just desert

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This is just a broad sketch of what's in my mind before attempting to write a Girard gate arc –- a very rough sketch of a very long arc.

So coming in we have the OotS, the new LG and Team Evil converging on Girard's gate.

Girard's gate is the desert and is guarded by illusions. Girard was an epic level "illusionist" (not a class name, just a description of the character).

I'm thinking of placing Girard's gate near a mixed, cosmopolitan city in the desert and for the city to have a stereotypically Middle Eastern/Arabian Nights flavor. It's a city based on trading with a mercenary but civil ethos, somewhere between the ethos of Azure City and Greysky city. I'm not sure of the name, maybe Izmagard or Marakata (Semitic and Sanskrit for emerald. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald. This is a play on the Emerald City in the Wizard of Oz and the general color-schemed cities of Oots. Besides, a "green" city in the middle of a desert appeals to me.)

Since the gate is guarded by an illusionist, I think he would use the hidden in plain sight trope (examples, Poe's The Purloined Letter, the Holy Grail in Indiana Jones III, etc.). So there is a fake gate protected by illusionary walls, traps and monsters (or maybe more than one in the desert) near the city but that gate leads to nowhere (maybe it should actually lead to the kingdom of Nowhere in Oots).

The real gate is in the city. Yeah that was done in Azure City. But maybe the entire city is the gate. The city and all the permanent inhabitants is some sort of grand epic illusion. The illusory people themselves do not know they are illusions. Maybe they even have sentience. (Yeah this is another trope that's been done before. I'm thinking of the episode in Star Trek:Voyager episode Shadowplay.) The only illusion that knows its purpose is some old, likeable, but minor character in the town. He is not Girard. He is a simulacrum (Of whom? Hmm don't know yet.) left behind by Girard as a care taker and he's come care for the people of the town. But he knows what the real purpose is. (Maybe as an illusion, he, like the other people in the town, is strangely immune to things like mind reading or charming.)

Anyway, so the three groups of main characters converge in or near the town and start looking for the gate. Zaniness ensues.

Eventually there's an Aha! moment where the OotS and Team Evil and the LG race back to the city. At the climax, the city disappears...all except for the old man and the gate. So now OotS and Team Evil, the simulacrum and the LG face off in the middle of an empty desert. An epic battle ensues.

With Team Evil about to win, Belkar does a Miko and sacrifices himself to save the gate, except, Belkar gets redemption, unlike Miko.

Xykon determines to exterminate these "meddling kids" once and for all before they possible ruin his attempt to get the last gate. The surviving OotS and LG members have to escape. But in getting away, the teams get mixed up. Don't you just hate when that happens?

So now there are two new separated teams, each made up of both OotS and LG members. With little time to waste before Xykon heads to the last gate, Kraagor's gate at the Top Of the World, can the individuals members of OotS and LG put aside there differences and work together to save the world?

Yeah it's a lot cheesy. But them’s my thoughts so far.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Bozzok isn't interested in live prisoners -- this is a tailor-made situation for a frag grenade. What's the D&D 4E equivalent?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Frag grenade = Fireball in all versions of D&D...or it should.

[David Argall]

Bozzok isn't interested in live prisoners -- this is a tailor-made situation for a frag grenade. What's the D&D 4E equivalent?

Delayed blast fireball works nicely in 3.5, and we are not using 4e here. The low levels can get by with alchemist's fire or tangelfoot bags.

[BossMuro]

Huh?

Spoiler

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I was following up until the end where Bozzok spared the main characters and killed Pete. First of all, he threatened to kill Haley if she ever came back, and in his position you have to follow through with your threats or people will think you're weak. And second of all, when someone makes a deal with you, and then you kill them for LITERALLY NO REASON AT ALL, people will stop making deals with you. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it pisses me off to no end when bad guys do that stuff on TV and movies, because it makes zero sense.

Also, Belkar probably wouldn't want to wait around and get buffed when there's killing to be done, and NaCle likely wouldn't have combat buffs if he was on temple duty, anyways. Since Loki is a trickster god, he would have invisibility as a domain spell, though.

[Grail]

Keep throwing Smoke sticks down until they asphyxiate.
The End.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

<snip unspoilered post>

I've put a spoiler on the thread title but you may want to add spoilers to your post as recommended here. From the link:

Spoilers Outside of a Spoiler Thread or Not Under Spoiler Tags Some posters can’t see a movie the day it comes out, or read that book the day it comes out. So please either mask spoilers with the appropriate tags or post a thread with [spoiler] in the title if you wish to discuss something that people may or may not wish to view due to spoilers.

I discuss your specific comments below.

Spoiler

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Huh? I was following up until the end where Bozzok spared the main characters and killed Pete.

I didn't want to kill of the main characters in my little fanfic.

First of all, he threatened to kill Haley if she ever came back, and in his position you have to follow through with your threats or people will think you're weak.

He intends to follow through with his threat but all villians need to be dramatic. It's part of the job description. That's why he lampshades "What kind of villian would I be..." Besides, the prisoner's visitors were given as a thinly veiled pretext for the delay. I've made a small edit to try to make that clearer. Which brings us to

And second of all, when someone makes a deal with you, and then you kill them for LITERALLY NO REASON AT ALL, people will stop making deals with you. Sorry if I sound harsh, but it pisses me off to no end when bad guys do that stuff on TV and movies, because it makes zero sense.

Honor among thieves and all that. But seriously, what kind of message does it send if you can betray the guild and then make amends? Pete's double double cross doesn't negate his original mistake or his second one...which is thinking that Bozzok is the forgiving kind of guy.

Also, Belkar probably wouldn't want to wait around and get buffed when there's killing to be done, and NaCle likely wouldn't have combat buffs if he was on temple duty, anyways.

Well there probably was an internal debate in Belkar's twisted little mind as I said but luckily the COD (Clerical Officer of the Day) at the temple is required to have buffs for the temple guards.

Since Loki is a trickster god, he would have invisibility as a domain spell, though.

Invisibility doesn't seem to help that much when they know you're there and you can't get away and the opposition is a bunch of mid to high level rogues.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

...the story continues...

Spoiler

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[See full story here]

Two figures fly high over an island with a rather impressive giant statue. The smaller chases the larger. Just as it is about to catch up to the larger figure, the smaller one disappears only to appear in front of the larger one. Coming to halt the larger figure, a very angry and intense looking elf says coldly, "Go back to the nightmare plane you came from imp. Even in my depleted state, you are no match for me. But I don't want to waste any more resources destroying you today. "

The imp cooly replies, "There's no need to fight wizard. You're obviously looking for something. And I can help you, whatever it is."

"Evil hellspawn," the wizard responds as his hands start to glow ominously, "There is nothing about me which you can comprehend. There is nothing that you can offer me. I know full well how your kind schemes and I am far too intelligent to be fooled by you."

"Of course wizard", intones the imp. "I have no intention of fooling you. How could I? It does not interest me what your aims are. Do you think I cared about Kubota's little power trip? No. That is not my job. My job is, as you know, corrupting mortals. I do know that you are looking for something. I can help with that or rather my patrons can. What is it you seek wizard? Ultimate arcane power perhaps? No, no, that's not it. Perhaps I was wrong. That's not what you seek."

"Arcane power I have and I shall attain even more on my own. But that is only a tool for the larger, greater purpose to which I am dedicated. It is that purpose that makes me invulnerable to your temptation. And it is that very purpose which lets me brook no delay. Out of my way or I shall destroy you." The glow around the wizard grows even brighter, angrier.

The little imp seems oblivious to the elf's threat. "Wait. Stop and think for a moment wizard. If you do have this greater purpose then isn't it in your interest to use me? Your kind uses my kind for that kind of thing all the time. And if you do achieve your purpose through me, then so what? Doesn't your end justify your means? Before I leave let me ask you one last question. Do you now have a clear and immediate means to attain this pressing goal of yours? If you do, I will leave because then I do have nothing to offer you. But if you do not, then are you really making the most intelligent decision by ignoring my offer?"

The elf is quiet. He looks sternly at the imp. The glow around his body dies down. He speaks with and even voice in the cool breeze that blows at this altitude. "Of my purpose, I will tell you this. I seek to contact one Ms. Haley Starshine and knowledge of the mortal state and location of certain Mr. Roy Greenhilt. I have used all my considerable art to find them but I must admit that I cannot. I cannot even divine what has happened in Azure City where I last saw them. If you can help me in this and I find your terms agreeable, then we may have a deal. What say you imp?"

"Azure City?" replies the incredulousl imp. "Don't you know why your divinations don't work there? I wonder sometimes what kind of lame subpar senses you mortals use."

An obvious irritated wizard responds "All I get is a 404 error."

"Yes obviously but why?" responds the imp. "Did you not try to map the magical scope and area of interference with divination? It's epic. There is an epic level divination block around Azure City. You can't possibly succeed in breaking it."

The wizard looks even more irritated.

"Well, ahem, yes, I tell you that for free." continous the imp. "And I tell you what's more, I can call on my master's even greater epic power to overcome your obstacle. It comes at a price...you understand."

The elf sighs. "Yes, yes I do. The only thing left to negotiate is the price then. I know all too well what you are asking of me yet I would read the contract before signing it. I assume it has the usual escape clauses and fine print?"

A smiling imp responds as he pulls a small scroll from seemingly out of nowhere, "I have a standard contract right here. I just need to make a few small changes. Shall we proceed to a more convenient location on the island to conclude our discussion?"

"Please lead the way," responds the elf.

"But of course. Pleasure doing business with you," quips the imp.

The two figure fly down and disappear among the trees.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

And here's the last. After this I'm sort of out of ideas. My fanfic has run its course. I can't wait to see what happens in the "real" story.

Spoiler

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[See full story here]

Scene: Hinjo's office on Hinjo's junk. Lien stands behind Hinjo who sits behind a desk.

[Elan walks into Hinjo's cabin looking glum]

Hinjo: Thanks for coming Elan. Do you know why I've called you here?

Elan: Yes. Don't patronize me like I'm not some school kid called in to see his principal.

Hinjo: OK Elan. This isn't easy for me either.

Elan: I take it the True Ressurection on Kubota did not work?

Hinjo. No. Kubota's clan spent a large part of their resources to get the high priest of the Lizardfolk to cast the spell. But noone knows why his soul failed to return.

[Pause]

Hinjo: Do you have any idea where Vaarsuvius is?

Elan: No.

Hinjo: Please tell me again what happened to Kubota.

Elan: I already told you...more than once.

Hinjo: Yes I know. Dire Half-Dragon Bone-Eating Saltwater Were-Piranhas. Lien if you please.

[Lien brings our Kubota's armor from behind the desk]

Hinjo: Care to explain how Lien found this and only this?

Elan: I can't. I'm not the brains around here.

[Hinjo stands up suddenly]

Hinjo: Don't you patronize me! It is true Elan, we, Azure City, I, have much to thank you and your friends for. We would not have made it this far without you. And you have lost much too. I know that. But you don't seem to understand the position this latest turn of events has put me in.

Elan: Hinjo, I understand...

Hinjo: No, no you don't. I am the Lord of these people. All of them. The good and the bad. Kubota was one of those people. Even if he was trying to kill me, I still had a duty to protect him. And what's more he was a daimyo. He was perceived by many to be a pillar of the community. His clan has already started rumors that he was on my ship trying to come to our rescue. Now he is gone leaving nothing behind but this. And Vaarsuvius is gone as well. I'm not the smartest one here either Elan. But even I can see that the two events are related. And you are the only witness. I'm asking you Elan. Tell me the truth.

[Elan looks down to the floor. Then looks up straight into Hinjo's eyes]

Elan: How do you want me to answer you Hinjo? Does the truth even matter at this point? We both know what this means. We, Durkon and I, have to leave you as well. That should satisfy your people, no? Getting rid of us northern barbarians?

Hinjo: Elan, this isn't about that. I'm bound to uphold the Law of Azure City even here in the open ocean. I will defend the right of northern "babarians" to live among us if they conduct themselves lawfully. But I can't allow a band of adventurers to treat the citizens like monsters in a dungeon.

Elan: What is your intention then? To prosecute us for the murder of Daimyo Kubota? I'm sure it would be the Trial of the Century.

Hinjo: Elan please. I'm only asking for the truth. I need to know what happened so I can act appropriately.

Elan: Sometimes you just gotta act even if you don't know how it's going to come out. Do you want to detain us here Hinjo? Durkon and I won't resist.

Hinjo: No Elan. You are free to go. I just wish things had worked out differently ... that everything had worked out differently.

Elan: I know. But what's done is done. Will you be OK here Hinjo?

Hinjo: Yes. Kubota was the most dangerous and ambitious of the daimyo. With him gone, I am secure for the moment if only because of fear. And you? Where will you and Durkon go?

Elan: I don't know. I just know wherever we go, that's where will need to be...Isn't that right Banjo?

[Elan takes out Banjo and shakes his head yes. Hinjo laughs.]

Hinjo: May the Twelve Gods go with you.

Scene: Below decks. Durkon lies on his back, eyes closed, in his armor in a magic circle. Durkon does not speak out lout. He says the words in his mind.

Durkon: Should we stay with Hinjo?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we chase after Vaarsuvius?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return to Azure City?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we leave at the nearest port of call?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Girard's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Kraagor's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return home to the dwarven lands?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we continue scrying for Haley?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to bring Roy back from the dead?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we recruit new members and form a new party?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we fight Xykon ourselves?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we...

Disembodied voice: Oh for crying out loud! Go to Greysky City! Go there now! Find the Thieve's Guild headquarters!

Scene: Thor, angry on a cloudscape, taking a headset off his head.

Thor: Man is that guy a pain.

Scene: Deck of Hinjo's junk. The Kato's are on the deck. Elan, Hinjo and Lein are leaving Hinjo's quarters. Durkon rushes up from below quarters.

Durkon: Elan! We've got to...

Elan: We've got to leave.

Durkon: No I mean you and I have to leave...

Elan: Yes I know. You and I have to leave the fleet.

Daigo: What?

Kazumi: No!

Durkon: I mean I think I know where Haley is.

[Elan suddenly smiles]

Elan: Then what are we waiting for?

[After some short preperations, the group exchanges goodbyes. Durkon casts a spell and he and Elan turn into cloudlike vapor. They zoom into the sky as the fleet and the sunset recedes behind them.]

[bladesyz]

After Toby's death, I would have Bozzok shout down to Haley, "Surrender Haley. You can't survive this but maybe your frinds can." Haley shouts back "Fat chance."

Then I order the fighter with the tower shield -- at least on of Bozzok's crew has multiclassed to fighter and you always carry a tower shield to these situations -- to double move down the stairs, bullrushing anyone in the way. Then have 5 more rogues follow him down the stairs or tumble off the stairs. One of these 5 is Crystal. The last one left at the top of the stairs is the rogue with the caster level or enough UMD to cast/read a scroll/use a wand of dispel magic with a ready action to counter the Sylph.

On the next round, once down the stairs, the tower shield tries to bull rush Haley against a wall if he can. The other rogues screen by fighting defensively or spring attacking. All this is to allow Crystal to get close to Haley.

The remaining rogues rush or tumble down the stairs. At least half of these have bows or crossbows. Once there inside, Bozzok yells again, "Surrender Haley or the Sylph buys a one way ticket to the afterlife." If Haley does not surrender, it should be over in 1 or 2 rounds.

I think you seriously overestimate the coordination of a bunch of thieves. They're the Thieves Guild, not the Elite Commando Guild. Unless otherwise stated, they're a bunch of more or less skilled individuals who are better at swindling each other than at working together. They spend their time picking pockets and mugging people on the streets, not training for tactical assault.

If I was Bozzok, I'd barricade the basement door then burn the house down. If anyone makes their way outside, launch your entire force at them at once.

Hey, if you're fighting fairly then you're not doing it right.

Seriously, that's what he would do if he wasn't interested in taking prisoners. Even if he was, he can just smoke them out.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I think you seriously overestimate the coordination of a bunch of thieves. They're the Thieves Guild, not the Elite Commando Guild. Unless otherwise stated, they're a bunch of more or less skilled individuals who are better at swindling each other than at working together. They spend their time picking pockets and mugging people on the streets, not training for tactical assault.

Well if you notice in my little fanfic, it is Bozzok, a character of equal or higher level than Haley, who is coordinating the attack. It is not a trained tactical assault -- not in the modern sense. The story I told was told from the point of view of a DM
1) who has a couple of players trapped
2) and does not want to kill/capture the long standing characters without giving them a fair chance
3) but wants to play the villian, Bozzok, "realistically" and not have the thieves attack one at a time which makes it way to easy for Haley -- that is have Bozzok act as the intelligent and experienced high level adversary that he is supposed to be

Now, you may not have liked the story. I have no problem with that. But I have to defend the story in that it was true to the forms of the genre.

Originally Posted by TheBST
If I was Bozzok, I'd barricade the basement door then burn the house down. If anyone makes their way outside, launch your entire force at them at once.

Hey, if you're fighting fairly then you're not doing it right.Seriously, that's what he would do if he wasn't interested in taking prisoners. Even if he was, he can just smoke them out.

1) Doesn't that count as a tactical assault?
2) Doesn't that count as a boring tactical assault?
3) In a D&D based world, after you barricade the door and start burning the house, how do you keep the flying Sylph that shoots lightning bolts -- which have been shown to break down castle doors -- inside the house? How are you going keep the 14th level thief -- you know the one that can do this -- in that same house? Once they get outside, how are you going to keep the same two enemies -- the invisible flying Sylph and 14th level thief, who excel at ranged attacks -- from getting away or killing your men from long range? So doesn't that sound like a boring and unintelligent tactical assault in a D&D world?

[Spiky]

And here's the last. After this I'm sort of out of ideas. My fanfic has run its course. I can't wait to see what happens in the "real" story.

Spoiler

Show

[See full story here]

Scene: Hinjo's office on Hinjo's junk. Lien stands behind Hinjo who sits behind a desk.

[Elan walks into Hinjo's cabin looking glum]

Hinjo: Thanks for coming Elan. Do you know why I've called you here?

Elan: Yes. Don't patronize me like I'm not some school kid called in to see his principal.

Hinjo: OK Elan. This isn't easy for me either.

Elan: I take it the True Ressurection on Kubota did not work?

Hinjo. No and noone knows why his soul failed to return.

[Pause]

Hinjo: Do you have any idea where Vaarsuvius is?

Elan: No.

Hinjo: Please tell me again what happened to Kubota.

Elan: I already told you...more than once.

Hinjo: Lien if you please.

[Lien brings our Kubota's armor from behind the desk]

Hinjo: Care to explain how Lien found this and only this?

Elan: I can't. I'm not the brains around here.

[Hinjo stands up suddenly]

Hinjo: Don't you patronize me! It is true Elan, we, Azure City, I, have much to thank you and your friends for. We would not have made it this far without you. And you have lost much too. I know that. But you don't seem to understand the position this latest turn of events has put me in.

Elan: Hinjo, I understand...

Hinjo: No, no you don't. I am the Lord of these people. All of them. The good and the bad. Kubota was one of those people. Even if he was trying to kill me, I still had a duty to protect him. And what's more he was a daimyo. He was perceived by many to be a pillar of the community. His clan has already started rumors that he was on my ship trying to come to our rescue. Now he is gone leaving nothing behind but this. And Vaarsuvius is gone as well. I'm not the smartest one here either Elan. But even I can see that the two events are related. And you are the only witness. I'm asking you Elan. Tell me the truth.

[Elan looks down to the floor. Then looks up straight into Hinjo's eyes]

Elan: How do you want me to answer you Hinjo? Does the truth even matter at this point? We both know what this means. We, Durkon and I, have to leave you as well. That should satisfy your people, no? Getting rid of us northern barbarians?

Hinjo: Elan, this isn't about that. I'm bound to uphold the Law of Azure City even here in the open ocean. I will defend the right of northern "babarians" to live among us if they conduct themselves lawfully. But I can't allow a band of adventurers to treat the citizens like monsters in a dungeon.

Elan: What is your intention then? To prosecute us for the murder of Daimyo Kubota? I'm sure it would be the Trial of the Century.

Hinjo: Elan please. I'm only asking for the truth. I need to know what happened so I can act appropriately.

Elan: Sometimes you just gotta act even if you don't know how it's going to come out. Do you want to detain us here Hinjo? Durkon and I won't resist.

Hinjo: No Elan. You are free to go. I just wish things had worked out differently ... that everything had worked out differently.

Elan: I know. But what's done is done. Will you be OK here Hinjo?

Hinjo: Yes. Kubota was the most dangerous and ambitious of the daimyo. With him gone, I am secure for the moment if only because of fear. And you? Where will you and Durkon go?

Elan: I don't know. I just know wherever we go, that's where will need to be...Isn't that right Banjo?

[Elan takes out Banjo and shakes his head yes. Hinjo laughs.]

Hinjo: May the Twelve Gods go with you.

Scene: Below decks. Durkon lies on his back, eyes closed, in his armor in a magic circle. Durkon does not speak out lout. He says the words in his mind.

Durkon: Should we stay with Hinjo?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we chase after Vaarsuvius?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return to Azure City?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we leave at the nearest port of call?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Girard's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to find Kraagor's gate?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we return home to the dwarven lands?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we continue scrying for Haley?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we try to bring Roy back from the dead?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we recruit new members and form a new party?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we fight Xykon ourselves?

Disembodied voice: No

Durkon: Should we...

Disembodied voice: Oh for crying out loud! Go to Greysky City! Go there now! Find the Thieve's Guild headquarters!

Scene: Thor, angry on a cloudscape, taking a headset off his head.

Thor: Man is that guy a pain.

Scene: Deck of Hinjo's junk. The Kato's are on the deck. Elan, Hinjo and Lein are leaving Hinjo's quarters. Durkon rushes up from below quarters.

Durkon: Elan! We've got to...

Elan: We've got to leave.

Durkon: No I mean you and I have to leave...

Elan: Yes I know. You and I have to leave the fleet.

Daigo: What?

Kazumi: No!

Durkon: I mean I think I know where Haley is.

[Elan suddenly smiles]

Elan: Then what are we waiting for?

[After some short preperations, the group exchanges goodbyes. Durkon casts a spell and he and Elan turn into cloudlike vapor. They zoom into the sky as the fleet and the sunset recedes behind them.]

One problem, well....two. (1) Who would cast True Res? The only cleric possibly strong enough in the Southern lands is Redcloak. (2) And why would Hinjo bother? Ok, (3) Why would Kubota NOT come back?

I like the rest, though.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

One problem, well....two. (1) Who would cast True Res? The only cleric possibly strong enough in the Southern lands is Redcloak. (2) And why would Hinjo bother? Ok, (3) Why would Kubota NOT come back?

I like the rest, though.

Thanks.
(1) I figured Kubota's clan could afford the 75,000 gp to get someone, somewhere to cast True Res. Perhaps it's a high level cleric at one of the ports of call. Or perhaps it was just a request to a high level cleric via a sending....hmm maybe to the boss of the cleric that helped the Oracle.
(2) Not Hinjo but Kubota's clan. But Hinjo and Elan are aware of the attempt and outcome.
(3) Quarr...deal with devil...

I've made a small edit to Hinjo's reponse to try to make (1) and (2) clearer. But I think (3) should remain unexplained.

[David Argall]

Now, you may not have liked the story. I have no problem with that. But I have to defend the story in that it was true to the forms of the genre.
1) Doesn't that count as a tactical assault?
2) Doesn't that count as a boring tactical assault?
3) In a D&D based world, after you barricade the door and start burning the house, how do you keep the flying Sylph that shoots lightning bolts -- which have been shown to break down castle doors -- inside the house? How are you going keep the 14th level thief -- you know the one that can do this -- in that same house? Once they get outside, how are you going to keep the same two enemies -- the invisible flying Sylph and 14th level thief, who excel at ranged attacks -- from getting away or killing your men from long range? So doesn't that sound like a boring and unintelligent tactical assault in a D&D world?

Now the basic thing to keep in mind here is that Haley runs and hides from Crystal and the rest of the guild. It is her expert opinion that if she gets into a battle, she hurts. We don't need to debate the details. She is going to come off 2nd best. So it's not a matter of keeping Haley & Celia in the house, but encouraging them to come out where the full force of the guild can attack.
As to particulars, Celia has not been shown to be able to go invisible, and certainly not to stay that way after attacking. And there should be several archers or mages with range spells. So Celia is not going to last long.
Haley tried running vs Tsukiko. Didn't work too well. But if she stands and fights, she faces Crystal and her boss. Looks very bad. The only reason for Haley to get out of that basement is that she has to.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Now the basic thing to keep in mind here is that Haley runs and hides from Crystal and the rest of the guild. It is her expert opinion that if she gets into a battle, she hurts. We don't need to debate the details. She is going to come off 2nd best. So it's not a matter of keeping Haley & Celia in the house, but encouraging them to come out where the full force of the guild can attack.
As to particulars, Celia has not been shown to be able to go invisible, and certainly not to stay that way after attacking. And there should be several archers or mages with range spells. So Celia is not going to last long.
Haley tried running vs Tsukiko. Didn't work too well. But if she stands and fights, she faces Crystal and her boss. Looks very bad. The only reason for Haley to get out of that basement is that she has to.

OK. Fine. Celia can't go invisible. Does it matter?

You can't just think what Bozzok would do. You have to think what Haley would do after Bozzok acts.

If Bozzok's starts a fire and the safe room starts to fill with smoke, what would you do as Haley?

Would you just give up? That does not seem very Haley like. She was willing to fight before on the slim chance that the cleric can contact Durkon.

Would Haley fight her way out of one door? Again, that does not seem very Haley like since at that choke point she is at a disadvantage.

If I was Haley and a fire was set, then I would tell a panicky Celia to blast the a hole in the roof or the wall to get us out to another part of the house and then to escape from there.

Now then it's not just enough to think what would Haley do after Bozzok sets the house on fire. But you have to think what would Bozzok do after Haley escapes the burning house? The answer to that is not much. Once Haley and Celia break free of the house, the advantage against Haley is lost.

And this is I think how Bozzok is thinking. He does not know how Haley would escape a burning house but he's got to figure that Haley is a 14th level D&D rogue and she is going to escape the burning building somehow.

Heck maybe Pete has an escape route built into the room. Do you know he doesn't?

If noone comes out and you burn the house down or wait until the smoke clears, then you still have to go in there to find out what happened anyway. If you find no bodies then you know she got away. If you do find bodies, how do you in a D&D world know that it is Haley and her friends. And if the house does burn down then you have to dig through rubble to find out what happened. How long would that take?

But by going into the basement with his expendable rogues as cover he can contain Haley -- by the immediate threat presented by the rogues -- and bring to bear on Haley and whoever she has with her his two most powerful D&D world weapons - namely himself and Crystal.

And he can do so in a relatively safe manner for himself and Crystal -- his two non-expendable assets -- by only acting after the lower level, expendable rogues give him and Crystal the advantage.

Lastly, you're also setting fire -- or smoking out -- Pete's house which
1) is probably next to other houses and the fire --or smoke -- risks getting to the other houses. People start coming out of those houses and see you standing next to the flames waiting for Haley to come out. Yes you are the Thieve's Guild of Gresky City but the angry residents are the residents of Greysky City.

2) damaging Pete's house makes Pete angry as well and gets him thinking that he has to get away. So at best Pete gets away as soon as he hears of actions against his house -- and I don't think Bozzok wants Pete to get away. Or at worst, Pete does something to help Haley. What could he do to help Haley? I don't know but in a D&D world is it really impossible to think that Pete does not have some way to help Haley -- like some backdoor to the room or something.

In terms of villian tactics, villian style and story interest, I find the smoke them out tactic less interesting.

[bladesyz]

Well if you notice in my little fanfic, it is Bozzok, a character of equal or higher level than Haley, who is coordinating the attack. It is not a trained tactical assault -- not in the modern sense. The story I told was told from the point of view of a DM
1) who has a couple of players trapped
2) and does not want to kill/capture the long standing characters without giving them a fair chance
3) but wants to play the villian, Bozzok, "realistically" and not have the thieves attack one at a time which makes it way to easy for Haley -- that is have Bozzok act as the intelligent and experienced high level adversary that he is supposed to be

Now, you may not have liked the story. I have no problem with that. But I have to defend the story in that it was true to the forms of the genre.

Bozzok might be intelligent, but that doesn't mean his underlings are qualified in carrying out a coordinated strike like you described in your original post. It takes more than just a smart leader to launch a coordinated raid. Why do you think the army spends 99% of its time training soldiers to obey (and understand!) orders? The Thieves Guild is a long shot from Special Forces!

1) Doesn't that count as a tactical assault?
2) Doesn't that count as a boring tactical assault?

You and I must be using different dictionaries, because burning down a house counts neither as "tactical" nor as an "assault" in mine.

OK. Fine. Celia can't go invisible. Does it matter?

You can't just think what Bozzok would do. You have to think what Haley would do after Bozzok acts.

If Bozzok's starts a fire and the safe room starts to fill with smoke, what would you do as Haley?

Would you just give up? That does not seem very Haley like. She was willing to fight before on the slim chance that the cleric can contact Durkon.

Would Haley fight her way out of one door? Again, that does not seem very Haley like since at that choke point she is at a disadvantage.

If I was Haley and a fire was set, then I would tell a panicky Celia to blast the a hole in the roof or the wall to get us out to another part of the house and then to escape from there.

Uhh... blasting a hole through the wall of a BURNING HOUSE is more likely to bring burning timbers crashing down on you than creating a convenient escape hole.

Heck maybe Pete has an escape route built into the room. Do you know he doesn't?

Because if there was one, and Pete doesn't tell Bozzok, he isn't going to keep his newly regenerated eyes for long, which negates the whole purpose of the betrayal.

Lastly, you're also setting fire -- or smoking out -- Pete's house which
1) is probably next to other houses and the fire --or smoke -- risks getting to the other houses. People start coming out of those houses and see you standing next to the flames waiting for Haley to come out. Yes you are the Thieve's Guild of Gresky City but the angry residents are the residents of Greysky City.

2) damaging Pete's house makes Pete angry as well and gets him thinking that he has to get away. So at best Pete gets away as soon as he hears of actions against his house -- and I don't think Bozzok wants Pete to get away. Or at worst, Pete does something to help Haley. What could he do to help Haley? I don't know but in a D&D world is it really impossible to think that Pete does not have some way to help Haley -- like some backdoor to the room or something.

1) It's pretty obvious that the Thieves Guild is THE power in Greysky City. I don't think they'd care over much about what other residents think.

2) If Bozzok cared a whit about angering Pete, he wouldn't be threatening to poke out his eyes.

In terms of villian tactics, villian style and story interest, I find the smoke them out tactic less interesting.

Interest is purely subjective. Not everyone likes hours of tactical combat in a Roleplaying Game. Some people might prefer the RP opportunity of being trapped in the basement of a burning house.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Bozzok might be intelligent, but that doesn't mean his underlings are qualified in carrying out a coordinated strike like you described in your original post. It takes more than just a smart leader to launch a coordinated raid. Why do you think the army spends 99% of its time training soldiers to obey (and understand!) orders? The Thieves Guild is a long shot from Special Forces!

Again, the underlings are just not that effective in my fanfic. It takes Crystal and Bozzok to defeat Haley and Celia. Without Bozzok's planning and personal participation, Haley wins which is as it should be.

You and I must be using different dictionaries, because burning down a house counts neither as "tactical" nor as an "assault" in mine.

Without bringing politics into the discussion, it seems to me that I can remember at least 3 very well known armed operations by at at least 2 countries against groups barricaded inside houses recent history which involved smoke and or fire. But maybe you do have a different definition of tactical assault.

Uhh... blasting a hole through the wall of a BURNING HOUSE is more likely to bring burning timbers crashing down on you than creating a convenient escape hole.

Well I would think they would blast their way out before the majority of the house was on fire. But maybe you like to think that in a D&D world that a 14th level thief would not escape a barricaded house. I certainly don't want my to think of my D&D world 14th level thief in that way.

Because if there was one, and Pete doesn't tell Bozzok, he isn't going to keep his newly regenerated eyes for long, which negates the whole purpose of the betrayal.

If there was one and Haley hasn't found it in a week why would Pete tell Bozzok? You think Bozzok will look for it after capturing/killing Haley? If there is one thing someone like Pete would do is keep an ace in the hole.

Besides, Pete's not long for this world -- at least not in my little fanfic. Nobody likes a snitch.

1) It's pretty obvious that the Thieves Guild is THE power in Greysky City. I don't think they'd care over much about what other residents think.

Pretty obvious? OK.

2) If Bozzok cared a whit about angering Pete, he wouldn't be threatening to poke out his eyes.

Huh? Obviously Bozzok doesn't care one bit about angering/scaring Pete UNLESS he wants something from Pete -- in this case cooperation at least until Starshine is captured. And then, in my little fanfic, he wants to serve up Thieve's Guild justice to Pete in a nice, cold and dramatic fashion. Again, it would be best to have Pete none the wiser for that purpose.

Interest is purely subjective. Not everyone likes hours of tactical combat in a Roleplaying Game. Some people might prefer the RP opportunity of being trapped in the basement of a burning house.

I'm sure that that allows for plenty of room for RP. "Agghhh it burn!" "Oh the pain!" "Choke, choke, cough, cough."

Look if you want a different story why not write it? The "I" in "If I was Bozzok/the DM" could be you!

[HamsterOfTheGod]

...possible alternate future of OotS...after events above...

Spoiler

Show

[See full story here]

1) Durkon and Elan arrive at Bozzok's HQ
2) Smalltalk with Bozzok, eg "Where's Haley?" "Haley who?"
3) Fight ensues. Elan surprisingly effective one on one vs Bozzok.
4) Thieves get upper hand.
5) V arrives to save the day with new raven "familiar" in tow. Haley knows its not Blackwing and is suspicious of it.
6) Haley explain that Roy's body is at Grubwriggler's.
7) Argument as to how to proceed. V flies off alone to the wizard's lair. Others follow.
8) Others arrive just in time to prevent V from eliminating yet another obstacle - a living one this time.
9) Roy is resurrected.
10) Unhappy family reunion. Arguing breaks out among all parties.
11) V breaks argument and says he knows where Xykon and RC are. And he mentions that they should act with haste if they want someone named O-Chul to be saved.
12) Windwalk back to Azure City. O-Chul is saved in the nick of time.
13) RC wants to stay and fight. Xykon argues that it's time to go. Cloister has obviously been broken. Besides if RC wants to save his precious from hobgoblins from adventurers the best thing is to have the good guys chase the bad guys. Just to make sure OotS does chase, Xykon tells them he's headed to Girard's gate before teleporting out.
14) O-Chul decides to stay with resistance as OotS decides to follow.
15) The destination is too far for Wind Walk. But, mysteriously, with Raven on his shoulder, V is able to teleport the party to the city nearest to Girard's gate.
16) In some other city, the Linear Guild is gathering new recruits.
17) Sabine complains about Nale's new recruit, a halfling monk, while Nale complains about Sabine's new recruit, a handsome tiefling warlock.
18) A mysterious hooded cleric enters. The cleric insists on joining the Linear Guild because the cleric has sworn an oath to stop V. "Why should we trust you?" asks Nale. The person removes their hood to reveal an andogynous elf who says "Because I'm the spouse of the wizard Vaarsuvius and I know where the Order of the Stick is going."

[Samurai Jill]

If I was Bozzok, I'd barricade the basement door then burn the house down. If anyone makes their way outside, launch your entire force at them at once.

Hey, if you're fighting fairly then you're not doing it right.

Rogue philosophy in a nutshell.

Of course, what I find more confusing is that Bozzok is bothering to launch all these lower-level rogues that Haley can kill more-or-less effortlessly at her in the first place. It seems a waste of perfectly good potential earners just to give a prodigal member a slap on the wrist- I mean, even if they do manage to dull her arrow-tips a little, a smaller squad of just the higher-level rogues would probably make more economic sense.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

Of course, what I find more confusing is that Bozzok is bothering to launch all these lower-level rogues that Haley can kill more-or-less effortlessly at her in the first place. It seems a waste of perfectly good potential earners just to give a prodigal member a slap on the wrist- I mean, even if they do manage to dull her arrow-tips a little, a smaller squad of just the higher-level rogues would probably make more economic sense.

Normally* in the D&D world, a characters power grows faster than his level. This is reflected not only in character power but in character wealth. So a higher level rogue is worth much more as a guild-member/henchman/follower than a lower level one. It is actually "cheaper" to waste lower level followers than higher level ones.

* You can come up with exceptions within the D&D rules. But small skirmishes are usually not in those exceptions.

[Finwe]

Normally* in the D&D world, a characters power grows faster than his level. This is reflected not only in character power but in character wealth. So a higher level rogue is worth much more as a guild-member/henchman/follower than a lower level one. It is actually "cheaper" to waste lower level followers than higher level ones.

* You can come up with exceptions within the D&D rules. But small skirmishes are usually not in those exceptions.

Also, first level characters grow on trees, whereas in a small city you'd be lucky to have a hundred level 8 rouges.



(Exact numbers are probably wrong, but the point still stands.)