General Shadowrun Questions III: Ya like that, Chummer?

[LibraryOgre]

If you were the (2E) GM, how many times would you require an Adept to take Improved Physical Senses to have the same effect as a Rating III Scope (dropping the target number by three range increments, from Extreme to Short)? And how would such vision compare to a pair of 50x magnification binoculars?

I don't believe the rules specify how the various scope ratings compare to Binoculars (50x) or Goggles (20x).

We got cheap as hell with Adept sense powers. Since they were largely self-defined, you could get really tricky. Something like "Wide Band Hearing" to allow both infrasound and ultrasound. Personally, since the difference to cyber folks in magnification is not Essence, but Cost, I would let an adept have full magnification for the simple cost.

[comicshorse]

Senses is one of the advantages Adepts have to even up with Street Sam's smart gun links and datajacks and the sheer scope of cyberware and bioware. When you add in that scopes really aren't that expensive anyway I'd agree with Mark Hall and say they could have it for a single buy of Improved Senses

[Lord Torath]

Sounds fair.

How much would you charge for a high-frequency "ping" generator? I mean, if you've got ultrasonic hearing, you ought to be able to use echolocation, right? Ultrasonic sights are 1,300¥, and don't include the googles. That strikes me as rather pricey for what I want: a simple omni-directional HF ping generator that does not need to be precisely aligned with a gun barrel. I'm thinking around 250¥.

[LibraryOgre]

Sounds fair.

How much would you charge for a high-frequency "ping" generator? I mean, if you've got ultrasonic hearing, you ought to be able to use echolocation, right? Ultrasonic sights are 1,300¥, and don't include the googles. That strikes me as rather pricey for what I want: a simple omni-directional HF ping generator that does not need to be precisely aligned with a gun barrel. I'm thinking around 250¥.

Heck, that might even be too much. You're just looking for something that makes a buzz when you push a button. I'd lean closer to 100¥

[ZeroSpace9000]

Hey all, 4A question here. I know that there's rules for encumbrance, both from general gear as well as armour rating, but I don't see any weight values in my copy of the enhanced core book. Is this just my copy, or did Catalyst not put actual weight values in the game?

[Dimers]

There are no weights listed in either tables or text for almost any gear. The only exception that leaps to mind is explosives, just because blast power is related to kilos used. They probably tried NOT to give weight values -- I mean, "heavy barrel" gun mod doesn't even say how much heavier.

I'd guess the reference to encumbrance limit is either (A) a holdover from a previous edition or (B) a rough guideline for GMs whose PCs are considering whether to take the kitchen sink along "just in case".

[ZeroSpace9000]

Two questions real fast. First, in a couple of campaign journals I've read, I saw references to ballistic face masks. What 4e book would those ne in, if any?

Second, for 5e, assuming there is an entry for Datalock cyberware, does it have a wireless bonus associated with it?

[Dimers]

The face masks sound like they're from "War!". I can only say for sure that they're not in:

• Arsenal
• Runner's Companion
• Augmentation
• Street Magic
• Unwired

[Telwar]

The face masks sound like they're from "War!". I can only say for sure that they're not in:

• Arsenal
• Runner's Companion
• Augmentation
• Street Magic
• Unwired

Yup, War!, p 160, right next to the Softweave armor mods.

[Dimers]

I gotta get that book.

[ZeroSpace9000]

4E again, where are the rules for modding helmets? The closest I found was the generic armour mod rules, but that's based off of armour value which is low for helmets. I'm trying to put some sensor stuff into specifically a ballistic mask, ninjas need to trick out all their gear after all.

[killem2]

5E Question: How does one obtain a throw back weapon?

[Telwar]

4E again, where are the rules for modding helmets? The closest I found was the generic armour mod rules, but that's based off of armour value which is low for helmets. I'm trying to put some sensor stuff into specifically a ballistic mask, ninjas need to trick out all their gear after all.

Check out the tables in the back of Arsenal, some helmets are specifically listed as having their own capacity. For example, the Bike Racing Armor Helmet has a Capacity of 6, which is pretty damn high. OTOH, SWAT Armor Helmet's is only 4, even though it has more armor and probably more coverage and costs a lot more. Though Bike Racing Armor is a pretty good base armor anyway, especially layering FFBA under it.

Which is all well and good, but there is no Capacity listed in the War! tables for the Ballistic Mask.

On the third hand, however looking back at Maximum Armor Modifications on p 44 of Arsenal (1st printing), "Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number of modification rating points equal to 6 or the highest number of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever is higher." Italicized is from the text, bold is mine.

So...that kind of points to 6. I would still clear with the GM first, but you do have something to point to now.

[Telwar]

5E Question: How does one obtain a throw back weapon?

I'm assuming you mean thrown weapons that return. If you didn't, please elaborate, because the below answer(s) are unhelpful otherwise. :)

There are rules for returning boomerangs in their entry in Run and Gun, but that's only if you miss, a boomerang that hits just falls to the ground somewhere near the target.

Otherwise...mayyyyyybe a custom weapon focus? That would be a serious advancement in focus tech, though, approaching the Earthdawn magic weapons that Do Things, rather than the SR versions that just add dice. Which is certainly a possibility, but it's a GM plot point rather than something you could reasonably expect to get as a player.

[Dimers]

Maximum Armor Modifications on p 44 of Arsenal (1st printing), "Each piece of armor or clothing can only accept a total number of modification rating points equal to 6 or the highest number of its armor ratings (Ballistic or Impact) x 1.5 (round up), whichever is higher."

Note, though, that a helmet made to be part of an "armor suit" uses Capacity from the sidebar on page 44 rather than the Rating points from everywhere else. Sometimes that's good -- you can get any amount of Chemical Protection for just 2 Capacity, for example. Sometimes it's kinda dumb, like using up the helmet's entire Capacity for a couple vision enhancements even though you could fit several into a pair of goggles.

But it doesn't sound like the ballistic mask is part of an armor suit, so everything I wrote was probably pointless.

[Daremonai]

I'm assuming you mean thrown weapons that return. If you didn't, please elaborate, because the below answer(s) are unhelpful otherwise. :)

There are rules for returning boomerangs in their entry in Run and Gun, but that's only if you miss, a boomerang that hits just falls to the ground somewhere near the target.

Otherwise...mayyyyyybe a custom weapon focus? That would be a serious advancement in focus tech, though, approaching the Earthdawn magic weapons that Do Things, rather than the SR versions that just add dice. Which is certainly a possibility, but it's a GM plot point rather than something you could reasonably expect to get as a player.

A throwback is a device WITHOUT wireless capability (and is unhackable as a result)

[Telwar]

A throwback is a device WITHOUT wireless capability (and is unhackable as a result)

Oh. I thought about that, but 4e uses Vintage etc.

The 4e gun book pdfs detail wireless-incapable (like anything from a M1911 to M-16s and AR-15s) and older versions of electronic weapons (like say the Predators 1, 2, and 3), which are available if you look, but probably just not on the shelf at your Weapons World. I'm not sure if they've had a 5e gun PDF yet.

[Telok]

Well there's a small blackpowder mortar at an antique shop near me. If the question is 'where do characters buy them' antique and curio shops are an option (my local one also has a small selection of WWII lugers). If the question is 'what book are they in' I'm afraid I can't help you.

That said I never did understand the idea behind adding wireless capability to guns and everything.

[Dimers]

4e also says you can simply turn off wireless for almost any item -- and you should, so that you're not spewing data randomly during a sensitive part of a run. If you absolutely need communication from one device to another, as for smartgun operation, you can add a skinlink to each item so they're not using 'the airwaves'.

[Slipperychicken]

5E Question: How does one obtain a throw back weapon?

The rules for converting a weapon into a throwback (disabling its wireless capability) are listed on page 421 of the core book.

Your character could do this himself, or get a character with the "armorer" skill to do it for him. Any sort of weapons-related contact should be able to arrange this. Hell, you could probably get it done at a decent gun shop if you wanted. When ordering a weapon, it should be possible to specify that you want it without wireless, which might be worth a few hundred nuyen extra for the guy's time.

Though if you want a weapon with zero modern electronics, you're thinking of the "vintage" quality. Only specific weapons have that quality. Even "throwbacks" with no wireless still have their internal electronics and could be hacked via plugging into it, and could get bricked via electricity damage.

[Telok]

You could also run the battery down and not recharge it.

[Slipperychicken]

You could also run the battery down and not recharge it.

Congratulations; Now the electronics crucial to the gun's operation won't work. Much like if you bricked it.

[LibraryOgre]

So, how much would you charge for a language identifier?

I was sitting in a restaurant at lunch, listening to the staff speak, and idly wondered what language it was in. And it occurred to me that, if I had 20+ linguasofts, I might not have enough personal knowledge to know if I should slot Mandarin, Cantonese, or Vietnamese based on idle conversation.

[Fable Wright]

Considering some houserules on Shadowrun 5e to slightly rebalance the system. Thoughts?

Spoiler: Houserules

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1. Double Karma but street cred accrues at a rate of 1/20 karma. Just to at least partially counterbalance how slow character advancement is.

2. Skillwires, Skilljacks, and active/know/linguasofts use 4e pricing.

3. Upgrading decks is possible through a combination of buying used and trade-in value. Cyber/bioware can also be upgraded (ratings and omega/alpha/beta grade) without having to sell and re-buy via optimizations to old cyberware and stuff. Would letting the current bit of tech "trade in" at 3/4 its current value (or allow the player to perform the upgrade at 1.5 * the difference in prices between the old and new, whichever is cheaper) help offset the insane price of decks and some cyberware?

4. Riggers can choose to use their mental *or* physical stats when piloting their drones/vehicles.

5. Mundanes can attune to fetishes as though they were magic 1. Combined with astral photography, might help nonmagical types deal with magic. Might even let Power Foci grant the power to see into the astral or learn spellcasting, with force admittedly limited to 1 unless the player awakens.

Any other problems people have with the system that could be fixed?

EDIT:

So, how much would you charge for a language identifier?

I was sitting in a restaurant at lunch, listening to the staff speak, and idly wondered what language it was in. And it occurred to me that, if I had 20+ linguasofts, I might not have enough personal knowledge to know if I should slot Mandarin, Cantonese, or Vietnamese based on idle conversation.

I'd call it part of the commlink or skilljack. Google can already identify the most likely language of a phase, and it gets easier with more data points. I'd be surprised if you didn't get a popup helpfully telling you that the right language is only 499.99 nuyen away, or ask if you want to slot the appropriate 'soft from your library.

[DigoDragon]

Though if you want a weapon with zero modern electronics, you're thinking of the "vintage" quality. Only specific weapons have that quality. Even "throwbacks" with no wireless still have their internal electronics and could be hacked via plugging into it, and could get bricked via electricity damage.

Man, if my gun got hacked cause a decker plugged directly into it, then I really was doing something wrong in that combat.

Considering some houserules on Shadowrun 5e to slightly rebalance the system. Thoughts?

Spoiler: Houserules

Show

1. Double Karma but street cred accrues at a rate of 1/20 karma. Just to at least partially counterbalance how slow character advancement is.

2. Skillwires, Skilljacks, and active/know/linguasofts use 4e pricing.

3. Upgrading decks is possible through a combination of buying used and trade-in value. Cyber/bioware can also be upgraded (ratings and omega/alpha/beta grade) without having to sell and re-buy via optimizations to old cyberware and stuff. Would letting the current bit of tech "trade in" at 3/4 its current value (or allow the player to perform the upgrade at 1.5 * the difference in prices between the old and new, whichever is cheaper) help offset the insane price of decks and some cyberware?

4. Riggers can choose to use their mental *or* physical stats when piloting their drones/vehicles.

5. Mundanes can attune to fetishes as though they were magic 1. Combined with astral photography, might help nonmagical types deal with magic. Might even let Power Foci grant the power to see into the astral or learn spellcasting, with force admittedly limited to 1 unless the player awakens.

Spoiler: Some thoughts

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I haven't played 5e yet so I'm not sure how well it'll jingle in a game. Rule 3 is nice in theory. I've noticed my fellow hackers always had trouble upgrading their decks/commlinks in-game. If you could buy the components separately as second-hand that could be nice. Trade-off being it might have a particular quirk when you use it. Maybe it doesn't work well with one specific program,
or it is easier to glitch when running (think Gremlins negative quality).

5. This would help the team be more useful. If they pay the cost to attune to these fetishes/foci, I could allow a Magic 1. Not gonna be fighting off any spirits with that, but it be nice to see them coming so the team can get out the way.

[Dimers]

So, how much would you charge for a language identifier?

I'd call it part of the commlink or skilljack. Google can already identify the most likely language of a phase, and it gets easier with more data points. I'd be surprised if you didn't get a popup helpfully telling you that the right language is only 499.99 nuyen away, or ask if you want to slot the appropriate 'soft from your library.

I think that's about half right. The technology is simple enough that it could be automatic and near-perfect in 2070. But amoral megacorps being what they are, I wouldn't expect the Shadowrun gameworld to have anything for free.

I would say the closest you'd get to free is a pre-loaded service that will automatically download the correct linguasoft (from the same company, natch) without telling you what it is, and charge you by the minute for usage.

If you want to pay for (or hack) the identifier up front and not be beholden to a corp, I'd price it somewhere between autosoft and linguasoft. Call it a linguasoft of Rating 4, 8000 nuyen in 4e. If linguasofts had to roll dice pools, Rating 4 would let it buy a hit under typical conditions, automatically IDing the language within a few seconds.

[Fable Wright]

Spoiler: Some thoughts

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I haven't played 5e yet so I'm not sure how well it'll jingle in a game. Rule 3 is nice in theory. I've noticed my fellow hackers always had trouble upgrading their decks/commlinks in-game. If you could buy the components separately as second-hand that could be nice. Trade-off being it might have a particular quirk when you use it. Maybe it doesn't work well with one specific program,
or it is easier to glitch when running (think Gremlins negative quality).

5. This would help the team be more useful. If they pay the cost to attune to these fetishes/foci, I could allow a Magic 1. Not gonna be fighting off any spirits with that, but it be nice to see them coming so the team can get out the way.

Spoiler: Thoughts

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The hope was, you probably can fight off spirits with your Weapon Focus 4 28k nuyen Katana, given some okay stats and a rank or two in Astral Combat. It's not like you'll be better than an Explorer mage or anything, but it means that someone in a mundane party could deal with a higher-force spirit without a mage. At least give them a fighting chance, as the whole 'magic must defeat magic' thing is... kinda old hat by now.

Secondhand cyberdecks would probably be handled like Omega-grade cyberware, yeah, where it has some kind of drawback to offset lower availability and cost. For just upgrading purposes, though, I'd say that if you built it, it works fine for you, upgrade it at cost with no drawbacks, but you can't resell it. Scavenge a better deck from a run? Gotta sell that, 'cause you aren't getting anything from your custom loadout.

I think that's about half right. The technology is simple enough that it could be automatic and near-perfect in 2070. But amoral megacorps being what they are, I wouldn't expect the Shadowrun gameworld to have anything for free.

I would say the closest you'd get to free is a pre-loaded service that will automatically download the correct linguasoft (from the same company, natch) without telling you what it is, and charge you by the minute for usage.

If you want to pay for (or hack) the identifier up front and not be beholden to a corp, I'd price it somewhere between autosoft and linguasoft. Call it a linguasoft of Rating 4, 8000 nuyen in 4e. If linguasofts had to roll dice pools, Rating 4 would let it buy a hit under typical conditions, automatically IDing the language within a few seconds.

That's a bit pricey for something you could buy a success on with 4-5 Intuition. And... let's be real here, the devs said that they equate 1 nuyen to 1 modern-day euro. Would anyone, even in a cyberpunk dystopia, pay 8000 euros to tell that this person is speaking Japanese and that person is speaking Spanish? Like, this would be something you could get off the common grid, or at best some kind of obnoxious freeware loaded onto your commlink. The corp makes money by getting paid for each commlink they install the language grid on, the corp that made the freeware is getting money off the statistics of language distribution that they're pulling, and the other corps are pressured into including this feature or risk losing a bit of market share. If I had to give it a non-zero price tag, 500 nuyen, maybe, for the deluxe edition that can identify language down to the different dialects of Wakyambi tribes.

[Telok]

Congratulations; Now the electronics crucial to the gun's operation won't work. Much like if you bricked it.

See, that's what bothers me about some of the later SR assumptions. Having firearms that stop working because you forgot to plug then in to a charger last night isn't a selling point for most of the gun owners I know. The ex-military and ex-law enforcement people I know are actually offended by the concept of firearms that run out of charge like a cellphone.

Which tells me that there ought to be a fairly large market for guns that don't stop working if the battery runs out. A ruthlessly capitalist corporations ought to be catering to that market segment.

[Fable Wright]

See, that's what bothers me about some of the later SR assumptions. Having firearms that stop working because you forgot to plug then in to a charger last night isn't a selling point for most of the gun owners I know. The ex-military and ex-law enforcement people I know are actually offended by the concept of firearms that run out of charge like a cellphone.

Which tells me that there ought to be a fairly large market for guns that don't stop working if the battery runs out. A ruthlessly capitalist corporations ought to be catering to that market segment.

I'm assuming that they're running off hydrogen batteries that require maybe need replacing once every few years, and are required for the fingerprint scanner to prevent anyone but the cop it was assigned to from turning the gun on anyone. Also log shots and location, saving the police some paperwork. Which is probably a fair trade-off. For the logging purposes, I think most police issued firearms will be electrical; personal use firearms would have a larger throwback market.

[Slipperychicken]

See, that's what bothers me about some of the later SR assumptions. Having firearms that stop working because you forgot to plug then in to a charger last night isn't a selling point for most of the gun owners I know. The ex-military and ex-law enforcement people I know are actually offended by the concept of firearms that run out of charge like a cellphone.

Which tells me that there ought to be a fairly large market for guns that don't stop working if the battery runs out. A ruthlessly capitalist corporations ought to be catering to that market segment.

That reminds me: Don't most devices in SR charge through the grid? I know most of the high-discharge items like flash-paks and stun rods can charge up via induction while wireless (some kind of energy transfer through the matrix I think?), so most items should be getting power that way. I recall hearing lore about this, but I don't remember what it was exactly.