Doctor Who (again) [SPOILERS]

[GrlumpTheElder]

Clone etc.

which is a possibility if:

Spoiler

Show

The Doctor gets cloned in one of the later episodes, specifically in The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People. These episodes it has been revealed cover something quite similar to cloning It is this clone that dies...

[chiasaur11]

Clone etc.

More of a cop out.

Dr. Who is all about the crazy paradoxes under the grand Moff. That and giving small children nightmares.

Why deny it?

[Demons_eye]

More of a cop out.

Dr. Who is all about the crazy paradoxes under the grand Moff. That and giving small children nightmares.

Why deny it?

This; Also I think that the oldest doctor went back in time, shot himself so he could be in the background helping his younger self and drawing out the Silence. When he finds it out he pulls the plug on the paradox and bam, hes not dead anymore.

[The Extinguisher]

So we're not doing spoilers then, huh?

The shooter can't be River, because the River we see is already in jail and has already killed someone. But if the Astronaut is a younger River, then the River in the episode would already know what's going to happen, and the way she acted in the episode pretty much proves that isn't it.


However, one point I'd like to address. Just because the Doctor does die, doesn't mean Matt Smith has to be the last Doctor. I'd like to point to Silence in the Library. The Tenth Doctor meets River. He never meets her again as the Tenth Doctor. While they're catching up, she knows that he is an earlier regeneration, she also asks him if he's done the Crash of the Byzantium, which was the Eleventh Doctor. So why would she ask him that, knowing that he had regenerated before hand? Why would she be so surprised that this Doctor, who she has never met before, wouldn't know who she was?

Obviously there is something timey-wimey with Time Lords and regenerations and future versions. So the Doctor could very well just die there, even if he regenerates earlier. It doesn't fix the "the most important people in his life are Amy, Rory, River" issue. And really, the fact that he invited Canton Everret to his wake means that he had something planned other than dying.

[Androgeus]

So we're not doing spoilers then, huh?

The shooter can't be River, because the River we see is already in jail and has already killed someone. But if the Astronaut is a younger River, then the River in the episode would already know what's going to happen, and the way she acted in the episode pretty much proves that isn't it.


However, one point I'd like to address. Just because the Doctor does die, doesn't mean Matt Smith has to be the last Doctor. I'd like to point to Silence in the Library. The Tenth Doctor meets River. He never meets her again as the Tenth Doctor. While they're catching up, she knows that he is an earlier regeneration, she also asks him if he's done the Crash of the Byzantium, which was the Eleventh Doctor. So why would she ask him that, knowing that he had regenerated before hand? Why would she be so surprised that this Doctor, who she has never met before, wouldn't know who she was?

Obviously there is something timey-wimey with Time Lords and regenerations and future versions. So the Doctor could very well just die there, even if he regenerates earlier. It doesn't fix the "the most important people in his life are Amy, Rory, River" issue. And really, the fact that he invited Canton Everret to his wake means that he had something planned other than dying.

We probably should do this in spoilers but bleh.

I did think that River was a bit unfamiliar with spaceman to be the spaceman (and if she was, does that mean she wants to find herself and kill her so she can't kill the Doctor?)

I think in Silence in the Library, 10 was going to sacrifice himself and definitly acted like he could. River didn't want to loose the times she had with him so knocked him out and took his place.

The main problem with having a "Doctor Dies" story is that either it sticks and Doctor Who loses what has kept it alive or the Doctor weasles out of it somehow. I think it's kinda obvious which one happens.
I'd also guess that either the doctor works(/ed) out whats going on so knows who he summons or something. I'm really bad at making my own theories.

[Drolyt]

We probably should do this in spoilers but bleh.

There should probably be spoilers until the latest episode is finished airing in all the major locations. After that, it is just too much trouble. There should be a warning though that people who haven't seen the latest episode shouldn't read.

[Demons_eye]

There should probably be spoilers until the latest episode is finished airing in all the major locations. After that, it is just too much trouble. There should be a warning though that people who haven't seen the latest episode shouldn't read.

People stopped spoilering a page ago, kinda pointless now.

Edit: Out of curiosity where would one find the 'major locations' and said locations air times?

[Mauve Shirt]

I'm just here to post a link to cookies.

[Drolyt]

Edit: Out of curiosity where would one find the 'major locations' and said locations air times?

Excellent questions. I suppose that would be the major English speaking countries, Britain, the US, Canada, and Australia. Not sure what the air times are.

[Kobold-Bard]

We probably should do this in spoilers but bleh.

...

People aren't forced to open the thread if they don't want to, I didn't see the episode until yesterday and was quite capable of not reading the thread. If you don't want spoilers then don't click a thread about a show you have t seen yet.

[Drolyt]

People aren't forced to open the thread if they don't want to, I didn't see the episode until yesterday and was quite capable of not reading the thread. If you don't want spoilers then don't click a thread about a show you have t seen yet.

A reasonable position, but a spoiler alert is always a good idea.

[Kobold-Bard]

A reasonable position, but a spoiler alert is always a good idea.

Hopefully the OP or a mod will add it to the title/first post then.

[Kato]

Yeah, I'm a little irritated about the spoilers as well... sth in the title might be useful if we go on like that for anyone new.

The shooter can't be River, because the River we see is already in jail and has already killed someone. But if the Astronaut is a younger River, then the River in the episode would already know what's going to happen, and the way she acted in the episode pretty much proves that isn't it.

Good point but River can still be the shooter if that's not the crime she was in jail for. It's probably the River we see right now (or a slightly older one, you get what I mean) if she is the shooter. Not saying she has to be it but she might since... wel who's there to charge her for killing the Doctor in 2011?

However, one point I'd like to address. Just because the Doctor does die, doesn't mean Matt Smith has to be the last Doctor. I'd like to point to Silence in the Library. The Tenth Doctor meets River. He never meets her again as the Tenth Doctor. While they're catching up, she knows that he is an earlier regeneration, she also asks him if he's done the Crash of the Byzantium, which was the Eleventh Doctor. So why would she ask him that, knowing that he had regenerated before hand? Why would she be so surprised that this Doctor, who she has never met before, wouldn't know who she was?

The last point is easily answered: Ten is the one she meets only once. On every encounter with Eleven he has already met her once or more often before so she just assumes he'd know her and is right. It doesn't work in the library even though she thinks she might meet him later she realizes she won't. This will be her last encounter with him and thus she will die soon. (Wow, I'm a bit shocked I only realize this now but I guess she knew what was going to happen to her at that very moment. Either that or I forgot. Shame on me either way.)
As for the Byzantium... either she was a bit confused and assumed he'd be another incarnation or something. Can't remember everything right, can you?

[factotum]

People aren't forced to open the thread if they don't want to, I didn't see the episode until yesterday and was quite capable of not reading the thread. If you don't want spoilers then don't click a thread about a show you have t seen yet.

That works when everyone's talking about episode 1, but what happens when somebody wants to come in to the thread (having just seen episode 1 and wanting to talk about it) when other people have already seen and started discussing episode 2?

[Kobold-Bard]

That works when everyone's talking about episode 1, but what happens when somebody wants to come in to the thread (having just seen episode 1 and wanting to talk about it) when other people have already seen and started discussing episode 2?

They wait until they've caught up or accept that they'll get spoilers and live with it.

[Friv]

As far as the Crash of the Byzantium goes... River knows that the Doctor is a different regeneration. She doesn't know that he's an earlier regeneration. Even if she'd only met Matt Smith up to that point, she still knew that he could become another Doctor, and may have assumed that Tennant was the twelfth Doctor, and not the Tenth. Once she realized he didn't remember the eleventh doctor stuff, she knew he was earlier, and that it was their first time.

That's my theory, anyway.

Of course, that means that if the man River killed was the Doctor, he regenerated. But I really think that's a red herring that Moffat is throwing at us. It's sort of too obvious to be the real choice.

[Dornath]

Of course, that means that if the man River killed was the Doctor, he regenerated. But I really think that's a red herring that Moffat is throwing at us. It's sort of too obvious to be the real choice.

Thank you.

I don't think it was river. However it was someone that The Doctor had previous experience with, as he seems to acknowledge what's about to happen right before the large boom.

[Eakin]

I think it's lame that river's timeline has been reduced from someone who the doctor meets at completely random points along their own personal timelines, to just moving in opposite directions. The original way it was presented is just so much more interesting, and they are really limiting themselves if future river episodes will only have younger versions of her.

[Aidan305]

Not really. We know that she lives (possibly) for at least another 200 years of the Doctor's life (perhaps). That's plenty of time for whacky, and zany adventures.

[Cog]

I think it's lame that river's timeline has been reduced from someone who the doctor meets at completely random points along their own personal timelines, to just moving in opposite directions. The original way it was presented is just so much more interesting, and they are really limiting themselves if future river episodes will only have younger versions of her.

I don't remember how long the trading of events went this time. Is it possible that this meeting was relatively early for River, and at first (from her POV) they were going roughly backwards, but after this (again, her POV) the skipping around becomesmore frequent?

[The Extinguisher]

As far as the Crash of the Byzantium goes... River knows that the Doctor is a different regeneration. She doesn't know that he's an earlier regeneration. Even if she'd only met Matt Smith up to that point, she still knew that he could become another Doctor, and may have assumed that Tennant was the twelfth Doctor, and not the Tenth. Once she realized he didn't remember the eleventh doctor stuff, she knew he was earlier, and that it was their first time.

That's my theory, anyway.

Of course, that means that if the man River killed was the Doctor, he regenerated. But I really think that's a red herring that Moffat is throwing at us. It's sort of too obvious to be the real choice.

I disagree here, because one of the first thing she's says to him is "judging by your face, it's early years for you", and she has pictures of the Doctor in her book. She must have known he was the tenth.

I think it's lame that river's timeline has been reduced from someone who the doctor meets at completely random points along their own personal timelines, to just moving in opposite directions. The original way it was presented is just so much more interesting, and they are really limiting themselves if future river episodes will only have younger versions of her.

It's still a little random, just the general trend is going in opposite directions. Remember, the second last time River and the Doctor meet, the Doctor takes her out in a way that's much more personal than a second meeting would be.

[Aron Times]

Looking forward to when the Eternal Dalek makes its next appearance. The current speculation is that its role is to run away when the Doctor comes knocking, ensuring that the dalek race survives for eternity. Or perhaps it could be the equivalent of the Cult of Skaro, imagining ways of ensuring eternal dalek supremacy.

[Leecros]

Looking forward to when the Eternal Dalek makes its next appearance. The current speculation is that its role is to run away when the Doctor comes knocking, ensuring that the dalek race survives for eternity. Or perhaps it could be the equivalent of the Cult of Skaro, imagining ways of ensuring eternal dalek supremacy.

His job is to give the new daleks shiny new paint jobs for all eternity and to provide any repairs to 'said paint job, making them look shiny, new, and power ranger-esque.

That's right, he's their "Doctor"


Now i need to hide before the pun police come a knocking.

[Mkhaiwati]

We get some hints of this In the episode

Spoiler

Show

When Old Doctor dies, Rory is the one who holds it together and starts asking questions. Amy just kind of breaks down, and River still takes it pretty hard despite knowing for sure that she will see the Doctor again (and being River Song, a woman so tough she makes Nails look weak). Rory holds it together, he's clearly shaken, but still okay. And when Young Doctor shows up he's more curious than furious.

Also, the Rory/Everett bit inside the Tardis was great. Say what you will about Rory, he's solid, sensible, and capable.

One of my favorites part of this episode was in the diner when Rory was poking (and pushing) the Doctor. It was an exact reversal of the scene from the Pandorica of the Doctor doing it to Roman Rory.

Also, River going into the tunnels. She says she likes screaming, and that's a spoiler.

[Drolyt]

I think River probably knew Ten was an earlier incarnation, she just didn't know that was the first time they met. The Doctor has many off screen adventures (like Sherlock Holmes, when Watson throws out the names of random adventures) and it is heavily implied that he had more experiences with River offscreen (or will). The thing River talked about at the end of Silence of the Library, where he took her on some sort of wonderful last adventure (which she didn't know was last), may very well have been an offscreen adventure with the Tenth. We don't know, but I don't think River was confused about The Doctor's timeline, except insofar as when they would first meet.

[Syka]

She said it was early years, but that doesn't mean pre-11. She could know many different versions of the Doctor and was trying to pin down where. By asking if they'd done the Byzantium yet, that was basically "Are you pre- or post-11?" 'Cause, technically, the 12th Doctor could still be early years if...say...she has run around with the 20th Doctor.

[horngeek]

Just watched the first episode of the new series.

...WOW. Holy crap, those guys are scary. Also, awesome.

Not sure how Amy's pregnancy is relevant, though. Interesting plot point, don't get me wrong- now it's not just her life being risked by travelling with the Doctor, it's her kid's life too.

Also, according to the credits, they're called the Silent.

...

[Dr Strangelove]

The kid in the spacesuit is Amy's daughter, right? Maybe the Doctor sends her back in time to steal the regeneration energy of his future self so she can stay alive, and then she gives it back to him later?

Timey-wimey.

[horngeek]

I think he's trying to avert his death somehow, but apart from that, I am damm well assuming nothing.

Except I think these guys are the guys behind the whole 'Silence will fall' plotline.

...freaking hell. Most season endings don't have as many Wham Moments as this episode.

[Kato]

Except I think these guys are the guys behind the whole 'Silence will fall' plotline.

Oooh, I think I forgot to mention it. Damn, well, at least I remembered before the second season. I pointed it out earlier, the gang is not going to prevent an invasion but start a revolution. Which means, they will bring about the fall of the silent. 'Silence will fall'... though, it seemed to be something threatening earlier, so maybe I'm just seeing epileptic trees.